Kages vs Hokages

[PrinceofPeace]

Team Kages: 2TK, 3RK, 2MK, 4KK
vs
Team Hokages: Hashirama, Tobirama, Hiruzen, Minato

Settings
--------------
Location: Konoha Crater
OOC
No Prep
100m distance

Conditions
--------------
Hype knowledge for all
Hiruzen is in his old man form but can use any non signature/hiden from leaf village jutsu
Manga feats for all



Can Muu Solo???

[FireShadow]

Explain the team Kages. you wrote it confusing. :|

[PrinceofPeace]

Its the kages that Kabuto ressurected. Some of them do not have names.

[FireShadow]

can uou put pics so ican remember them. wasnt won of them Raikage of old? o.o

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

^he can't put pics of them because they are from Naruto, and so we can't post anything Viz related here

[FireShadow]

oh ok well that sucks haha. :| well who are they?

[PrinceofPeace]

Look at chp: 515
or ep. 256

if you can not remeber

Do your on research. If you dont bother to look them up (which takes a minute) then you do not deserve to be in this discussion ...sorry

[FireShadow]

ok i go look

[FireShadow]

Look at chp: 515
or ep. 256

if you can not remeber

Do your on research. If you dont bother to look them up (which takes a minute) then you do not deserve to be in this discussion ...sorry


well i expect you to have explanation for them in thread but you didn't. so explain better maybe? haha. but it is ok i remember them now. i come to thread latter, when you cool off and stop having such a fit over everything. :)

[PrinceofPeace]

thanks bud. Well I will start off by saying Kages win

hahahahahhah
you call that a fit?

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

well, i say the hokages win, Harashirama can stop both gold w/ wood style. Minato can use his teleportation jutsu against the raikage, and then Hiruzen and Tobirama can go against the 2nd tk and the 2nd mk

[FireShadow]

thanks bud. Well I will start off by saying Kages win

hahahahahhah
you call that a fit?

well you seemec mad haha no offence

[PrinceofPeace]

How do Hokage fight a flying foe? Much less an INVISIBLE one!

Muu spams dust style from the skye to destroy all Wood,water,and any other jutsu (Minato would get away due to speed but 3RK would keep them busy)

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

Tobirama can use edo tensei can't he?

[PrinceofPeace]

awww well i did say sorry. NO harm no foul right?

Tobirama CAN use ET...too bad he has no time nor prep to do it

*FYI-Check OP for minor changes*

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

But the both 2nd tk and mk don't get along w/ each other as said in the manga. so it would be hard for them to cooperate w/ each other. minato can also teleport himself fast enough like what he did to young bee and "a" and get them in a situation w/ one of the kages. except they wouldn't be able to react fast enough due to speed. which would mean one of them would be out.like the 4kk, he can't react fast enough like the other kages since he's more used to battles that he doesn't need to get close to.

[PrinceofPeace]

As far as I am concern Muu can solo all of them by flying in the sky while invisble then spammin dust release

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

but they would dodge it

[PrinceofPeace]

how??

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

by running, and harashirama can get the wood to carry him up to where muu is and them grab him w/ the wood and seal him or Minato can seal him

[PrinceofPeace]

Nobody has shown speed feats fast enough to dodge besides minato

While hashirama uses a tree to get close my flies further away... Did you forget my is invisible?

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

well harashirama can delay the thingy from hitting them w/ wood and they run

[PrinceofPeace]

How? He can not see muu and hashirama does not have the speed feats to counter enough.

Muu can fly past hashirama an use dust release to kill tobirama or hiruzrb

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

that is if Minato can get him out of the direction of the jutsu/muu, Minato can teleport other people as well.

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah but now minato has to anticipate the attack. Not to mention te 3RK is ready to fight and blitz the foe
And
2MK is ready to hide his team with mist

[Shisko Shi]

POP you said Kages. Before I say anything please state how.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Well, considering there is no prep Muu will not start out invisible so the Hokage can try to take him out before he can go invisible, but I can't really see them being able to do that when the three other Kage are there to support him (Gold Dust as a shield and 3RK to intercept blitzes). After that happens it would likely become 4 Kage vs. Minato which he couldn't win.

To play devil's advocate though, the Hokage could move close to their opponents as soon as Muu goes invisible meaning he'd have to take out his allies too if he wanted to hit the Hokage. Minato could also theoretically use a Space/Time barrier to redirect the Dust Release attack if he had sufficient time to react. Hashirama also has wood clones that could be used to trick them.

[BMC1994]

Both The third Raikage (Armor) and the second mizukage(Hozuki) would be immune to minatos blitzes.

Honestly i see the third and the second getting obliterated by dust release.

Their best bet would be hashi wood release > Advent of Flowering trees but muu could easily destroy any trees he creates.

Gaaras dad provides defensive support.

I'd say the non hokages win.

[PrinceofPeace]

@shi
-how what

Soo could muu solo??

[Bazk]

i see the kages gank down the 2nd 3rd and 4th hokage but not the 1st seeing how the current kages cant beat madara who is said to be weaker then him.

his massive forrests his wood clones and his medical skills and certain other insaine techniques

[Uchiha Sora]

Don't think any body can take down the third Raikage :lol: I'd have to go with the Kage.

Plus dat Dust release

Tobi and Hashi and Hiru would end up gettin blitzed..

2nd Mizukage provides genjutsu support and Gaara's dad just does what he does. They have a much more balanced team unlike the Hokage.

[JLI2infinity]

Hokages win. Hashirama OP.

Well first and foremost, this thread has been done before probably about a year ago but second of all. EMS Madara lost to Hashirama. Edo Madara just soloed all 5 of the current Kages and was complaining the entire time about how if he had Hashirama there it would be a challenge. This was Madara with Rinnegan and Mokuton saying Hashirama would be a match for him.

Gaara is already superior to his father and he would've been destroyed by Madara. Muu was temporarily matched by Onoki and Onoki has techniques for support which Muu does not. Third Raikage and Second Tsuchikage would be the biggest threat but they'd still lose out.

Advent of the Flowering Trees for Muu
Bringer of Darkness and Wood Dragon for Third Raikage
Tobirama floods the entire arena with Suiton to expose the clam and Second Mizukage's technique.


Hiruzen in his prime has been hyped as probably the best shinobi in history in regards to mastery of all forms of shinobi combat and Minato is Minato there's enough wank of him already so I won't go through his credentials all they need to do here is provide adequate support.

And if someone says that Muu just destroys Mokuton keep in mind that Onoki barely reacted to it and the moment Muu becomes visible Minato will blitz the hell out of him.


EDIT: What's up with all this. Kages get blitzed stuff? Did we forget Minato's on the team and Third Raikage is slower than A. TRK goes to blitz Minato's already reacted and moved his teammate 10 blocks in the other direction. And with the whole Raikages blitz strategy I've heard used against uberhax opponents like Hashirama or Madara (non-Edo). Hashirama can most likely react like Madara by raising his guard. He will probably get his arm broken considering he isnt an Edo but after that he can heal himself and the initial blitz will have failed. Then he makes 30 wood clones and proceeds to have an epic battle with the Black Zeus until eventually TRK falls. That'd probably be how a 1 on 1 goes down between the two.

[Naruto Namikazi]

If we are talking about ALL the Kage-s, and by that i mean the Edo Tensei Kage-s and the ones before them + the current ones, then Kage-s win.

The sheer number is enough to stand against the Hokage-s... The Kazekage's gold dust is stronger than you think, doesnt mean that Gaara beat him that the jutsu sucks and weak.

And everyone seems to forget ONE point about Minato... Guys HE CAN NOT BLITZ RIGHT FROM THE START... The commentor above me (Infinity) said that Minato biltz Muu right off the bat when he tries to go invisible... Everyone seems to forget that in order for Minato to blitz he needs his seals to be located on the place he goes to or throw that Kunai of his.... This battle has no PREP! So Minato has NO time whatsoever to do that, Muu CAN go invisible before Minato even notices it... And the rest of the Kage-s will do more than enough... Jokey Boy and other powerful jutsus from the other Kages... So yeah... This isnt an easy win for the Hokage-s as many seem to believe

[JLI2infinity]

If we are talking about ALL the Kage-s, and by that i mean the Edo Tensei Kage-s and the ones before them + the current ones, then Kage-s win.

The sheer number is enough to stand against the Hokage-s... The Kazekage's gold dust is stronger than you think, doesnt mean that Gaara beat him that the jutsu sucks and weak.

And everyone seems to forget ONE point about Minato... Guys HE CAN NOT BLITZ RIGHT FROM THE START... The commentor above me (Infinity) said that Minato biltz Muu right off the bat when he tries to go invisible... Everyone seems to forget that in order for Minato to blitz he needs his seals to be located on the place he goes to or throw that Kunai of his.... This battle has no PREP! So Minato has NO time whatsoever to do that, Muu CAN go invisible before Minato even notices it... And the rest of the Kage-s will do more than enough... Jokey Boy and other powerful jutsus from the other Kages... So yeah... This isnt an easy win for the Hokage-s as many seem to believe

Read the OP it's only 4 kages >.>

No I didn't I said he blitzes Muu when he becomes visible to prep for dust release. And you saying Muu can go invis before Minato notices is a joke considering Minato has the fastest reaction time in the Narutoverse. Even if he can't do anything about it he still notices everything that happens in battle.

[Naruto Namikazi]

LOL... Sorry i didnt notice the list of Kage-s that were listed only the Hokage-s

It was a figure speech >.> Dont take everything literally, plus even if he notices he wont be able to do anything about nor will the other Hokage-s.

4th KK is more of a support character and a strong one... He can easily "stick" everyone to the ground, Hashirama will get out easily though, the others, not so easily.

3rd Raikage can easily get rid of Hiruzen... And 2nd TK can take care of Minato... the 2 MK will take care Tobirama... Plus his Genjutsu... Now its KK sand making a big problem from the background and the Genjutsu created by 2 MK. And lets not forget Jokey Boy

The ONLY problem i see here is Hashirama... And frankly, i am having trouble figuring out a tactic against that monster.



Also, is Tobirama allowed to ET?

[JLI2infinity]

LOL... Sorry i didnt notice the list of Kage-s that were listed only the Hokage-s

It was a figure speech >.> Dont take everything literally, plus even if he notices he wont be able to do anything about nor will the other Hokage-s.

4th KK is more of a support character and a strong one... He can easily "stick" everyone to the ground, Hashirama will get out easily though, the others, not so easily.

3rd Raikage can easily get rid of Hiruzen... And 2nd TK can take care of Minato... the 2 MK will take care Tobirama... Plus his Genjutsu... Now its KK sand making a big problem from the background and the Genjutsu created by 2 MK. And lets not forget Jokey Boy

The ONLY problem i see here is Hashirama... And frankly, i am having trouble figuring out a tactic against that monster.



Also, is Tobirama allowed to ET?

No Tobirama is not allowed ET and this strategy would be great if these fights were all 1v1 but unfortunately this is a team battle. So you don't get the match ups you want with each person serving as a perfect counter. Tobirama can flood the battlefield so no clam means no genjutsu means no Minato counter.

How can he "stick" everyone to the ground. He doesn't start off fights with sand at their feet. and Tobirama and Hashirama can easily counter his gold dust wave with a combined Suiton technique.

Too bad TRK is going to have to get through a forest of poisoned flowers and trees to touch Hiruzen in the first place. Or break Bringer of Darkness genjutsu, or manage to catch Minato who can teleport Hiruzen to scattered kunai.

Hokage's have better chemistry and the strongest shinobi in history this fight is over.

EDIT: I do think if this was set up bracket style or like the chuunin exams the other Kages would have a chance, there I think your strategies would work, but as a team it's not really fair. Muu and 2MK are both like assassins making their abilities better suited for 1 on 1s.

[Naruto Namikazi]

Oh well... It was a good try to stand up for Kage-s so this isnt too one sided, but it can't be helped...

It was obvious that Hokage-s win... Hashirama alone is enough to take them out... Oh well... At least i tried... Good debate Infinity ;)

[PrinceofPeace]

Hokages win. Hashirama OP.
Yes I agree that Hashirama is short from a god but thats all hype.

Well first and foremost, this thread has been done before probably about a year ago but second of all.
aww really I thought I was orgininal
EMS Madara lost to Hashirama. Edo Madara just soloed all 5 of the current Kages and was complaining the entire time about how if he had Hashirama there it would be a challenge.
That does not count cuz This is EDO EMS MADARA WITH RINNEGAN. THere is a HUGE difference
This was Madara with Rinnegan and Mokuton saying Hashirama would be a match for him.
I LOVE YOU HASHIRAMA

Gaara is already superior to his father and he would've been destroyed by Madara. Muu was temporarily matched by Onoki and Onoki has techniques for support which Muu does not. Third Raikage and Second Tsuchikage would be the biggest threat but they'd still lose out.
That is hype and A>B.>C logic which is flawed

Advent of the Flowering Trees for Muu
Huh?? An exhausted Onoki destroyed the tress so Muu would as well
Bringer of Darkness and Wood Dragon for Third Raikage
teammates release 3RK out of genjutsu and Wood dragon works best on Kyubbi
Tobirama floods the entire arena with Suiton to expose the clam and Second Mizukage's technique.
did you forget 2MK has hydrofacation?? He would just absorb the water and grow stronger


Hiruzen in his prime has been hyped as probably the best shinobi in history in regards to mastery of all forms of shinobi combat and Minato is Minato there's enough wank of him already so I won't go through his credentials all they need to do here is provide adequate support.
that is all hype not feats.

And if someone says that Muu just destroys Mokuton keep in mind that Onoki barely reacted to it and the moment Muu becomes visible Minato will blitz the hell out of him.
How would Minato blitz him when Muu is in the sky?? And Muu can blitz himself in time. Afterall Minato is slower than naruto.

Bu hype I agree Hokages win but by feats Hokages lose

[konoha chimp]

I'm going to go out on a guess now and say:

Minato > 3rd Raikage
Tobirama > 4th Kazekage
Hashirama > 2nd Tsuchikage
Hiruzen > 2nd Mizukage

Of course this is just a quick guess, though I feel certain about the first two, I'm not too certain about the Mizukage/Tsuchikage though..

[PrinceofPeace]

how does Hashirama beat Muu?

[Naruto Namikazi]

Like Infinity said... this isnt a 1 on 1... So a "how does Hashirama beat Muu" question isnt valid... I used that as a last reserve not as an actual debate material XD So yeah, lets not do the 1 on 1 stuff, but rather the combinations of teamwork by the Kage-s and Hokage-s.

It wont take long for the KK to make sand but its even that "not long" period is dangerous considering the enemies have Hashirama who can sprout forests out of nowhere

[konoha chimp]

If it's team work then don't the hokages take this easily I mean they all practically taught each other (you know what I mean) so there team work would be phenomenal.

And considering the Kages wanted to kill each other xD well atleast Muu and the 2nd TK did, it doesn't really look too good for them does it?

[PrinceofPeace]

How do they beat Muu PERIOD???
he is invisble and can spam dust from the sky.

Muu is so powerful he does not need his team (at least 2MK)

Nothing is stopping Muu. The time and distance is too great for Minato to blitz anyone off the bat without 3RK saying somehthin

[Naruto Namikazi]

How do they beat Muu PERIOD???
he is invisble and can spam dust from the sky.

Muu is so powerful he does not need his team (at least 2MK)

Nothing is stopping Muu. The time and distance is too great for Minato to blitz anyone off the bat without 3RK saying somehthin

Please dont be so rash... 1 small fact ruins your "Muu is invincible" idea... Muu can not remain invisible while using Jutsus... And thats a fact, and especially not Jinton... And it hasnt been proven that he can use Jinton while split either... So anything that isnt proven should be thrown out the window.

[BMC1994]

Hokages win. Hashirama OP.

Well first and foremost, this thread has been done before probably about a year ago but second of all. EMS Madara lost to Hashirama. Edo Madara just soloed all 5 of the current Kages and was complaining the entire time about how if he had Hashirama there it would be a challenge. This was Madara with Rinnegan and Mokuton saying Hashirama would be a match for him.

Gaara is already superior to his father and he would've been destroyed by Madara. Muu was temporarily matched by Onoki and Onoki has techniques for support which Muu does not. Third Raikage and Second Tsuchikage would be the biggest threat but they'd still lose out.

Advent of the Flowering Trees for Muu
Bringer of Darkness and Wood Dragon for Third Raikage
Tobirama floods the entire arena with Suiton to expose the clam and Second Mizukage's technique.


Hiruzen in his prime has been hyped as probably the best shinobi in history in regards to mastery of all forms of shinobi combat and Minato is Minato there's enough wank of him already so I won't go through his credentials all they need to do here is provide adequate support.

And if someone says that Muu just destroys Mokuton keep in mind that Onoki barely reacted to it and the moment Muu becomes visible Minato will blitz the hell out of him.


EDIT: What's up with all this. Kages get blitzed stuff? Did we forget Minato's on the team and Third Raikage is slower than A. TRK goes to blitz Minato's already reacted and moved his teammate 10 blocks in the other direction. And with the whole Raikages blitz strategy I've heard used against uberhax opponents like Hashirama or Madara (non-Edo). Hashirama can most likely react like Madara by raising his guard. He will probably get his arm broken considering he isnt an Edo but after that he can heal himself and the initial blitz will have failed. Then he makes 30 wood clones and proceeds to have an epic battle with the Black Zeus until eventually TRK falls. That'd probably be how a 1 on 1 goes down between the two.

Yeah no...

Advent of flowering trees gets countered by muus flying. Non-Edo Hashirama (assuming were talking about that one) has no regenrative abilities that compare to edos or the ability to absorb jutsu. He gets caught in dust release and smashed into atoms.

Hiruzen as much as i love him what would this prime hiruzen do spam more kage bunshin? Its not even the hiruzen we are debating here so bringing him up is useless. Being in your prime wouldnt defend him from the jokey boy'ed ,dust released , being crushed by gold or straight up murked by the thrid raikage.

Minato cant harm TRK or The mizukage. Muu is invisible and can fly good look blitzing in mid air (more then 2 meters of the ground).

Can tobirama even summon enough water to do that. All you have is hype and i dont remember the exact workings of the clam but would suiton even do any harm/expose since its an clam.

Dust release > Wood dragon +Hashirama which should break bringer of darkness too.

Overall with defensive support from gaaras dad muus destructive ability on top of those 2 other monsters make this a win for the kages.

[PrinceofPeace]

okayy... so how do they defeat Muu? You did not answer my Question. Muu flies up in the air invisible then uses Jinton from the sky where it is hard to reach him

[Rasengan SageX5]

The way I'm reading the OP, its Edo Hokages vs Edo Kages, so everyone in the fight is an Edo zombie. Just putting that out there since it seems some of you don't get that.

[Naruto Namikazi]

Excuse me BMC, but... like i said above, Muu can not be invisible when he uses jutsus...

Issue number 2, there is no prep time, Gaara's Dad, the 4th KK, has NO SAND AT ALL to begin with, he has to make them, and that will take time which he doesnt have.

Issue number 3 Hashirama's Reg. abilities are known to be legendary, they will not ressurect him from the dead but even fatal injuries can will be healed.

Issue number 4 Hashirama is strong enough to make Bijuus his play thingies, and you just made him easily beaten >.> Please don't make it so easy cause it isnt.

Issue number 5 AGAIN and AGAIN... This isnt a 1 on 1 battle, this is team work... Your match ups dont work, and dont have to happen... So AGAIN... That argument is invalid.

Issue number 6 Hiruzen knows how to seal others using Minato's Jutsu, at the worst case scenario, he can sacrifice himself using that jutsu and take on of em to hell. And as far as we know, that jutsu is unstoppable as long as you succeed at summoning the Shinigami.

Issue number 7 Muu can go ahead and fly... Wont do him any good and Minato CAN counter him, he can throw Kunais in the air and teleport to him, and that is IF he didnt put a seal on Muu by then, in which case he will when he flies over to him using his Kunai-s...

Issue number 8, Hashirama isnt forced to use the forest jutsu, so making him use it right off the bat is a wrong assumption.

Issue number 9
Muu is invisible and can fly good look blitzing in mid air (more then 2 meters of the ground).

Did you just say MUU BLITZES ?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! Please use something else, i beg you...

[BMC1994]

1. I never claimed that.

2.Gaaras dad had sand as an edo , or which panel did he get that giant amount of gold from?

3. Hype, we do not know its upper or lower limits hence its best not used in debate.

4.The TRK made gyuki his B*tch i fail too see your point. And it was never claimed he tamed all of them at the same time. Just that he tamed all of them.

5. Those arent match ups those are actions taken in the fight.

6. yay suicide besides not being able to reach muu because of flight. gaaras dad gold protecting him and the second mizukage being able to liquify , seriously who do you think he going to catch with that jutsu? He had trouble with oro whos alot less impressive in the battle department.

7. And minato wont be dust released in the process because why mind you this isnt the meters in the air vs tobi. Were talking a couple of ten meters. maybe even more going to take a look at the panel again.

8. I was reacting to JL2's post in which he was using it.

9. Again reacting to JL2's post which claimed minato would blitz muu mid-air. Context learn to understand it. I beg you.

[Naruto Namikazi]

The A>B>C idea doesnt work in debates ;) Fighting styles are different and match ups can be unfair due to the fact that each character has different weaknesses... For example you can put an EXTERMELY powerful character against Itachi, who would normally rape him easily, but Itachi wins because that character is weak against Genjutsu..


So it doesnt work that way ;) Welcome to the BG anyways :D

And if you want to continue this, better VM or it will be an off topic post ;)

[PrinceofPeace]

lol guys just chill. Why VM about it just post here. And BMC is a GREAT debater.

[PrinceofPeace]

The way I'm reading the OP, its Edo Hokages vs Edo Kages, so everyone in the fight is an Edo zombie. Just putting that out there since it seems some of you don't get that.

Nobody said they were edos

[konoha chimp]

The A>B>C idea doesnt work in debates ;) Fighting styles are different and match ups can be unfair due to the fact that each character has different weaknesses... For example you can put an EXTERMELY powerful character against Itachi, who would normally rape him easily, but Itachi wins because that character is weak against Genjutsu..


So it doesnt work that way ;) Welcome to the BG anyways :D

And if you want to continue this, better VM or it will be an off topic post ;)

Yeah I understand what you mean, I just thought that the A>B>C works most of the time and that it would in this situation, though I'm probably wrong :lol:

I just find it really annoying when people dis-credit Hashirama and other characters because we haven't really seen them in action so it's all considered hype but ahwell, :)

[Naruto Namikazi]

1. I never claimed that.

2.Gaaras dad had sand as an edo , or which panel did he get that giant amount of gold from?

3. Hype, we do not know its upper or lower limits hence its best not used in debate.

4.The TRK made gyuki his B*tch i fail too see your point. And it was never claimed he tamed all of them at the same time. Just that he tamed all of them.

5. Those arent match ups those are actions taken in the fight.

6. yay suicide besides not being able to reach muu because of flight. gaaras dad gold protecting him and the second mizukage being able to liquify , seriously who do you think he going to catch with that jutsu? He had trouble with oro whos alot less impressive in the battle department.

7. And minato wont be dust released in the process because why mind you this isnt the meters in the air vs tobi. Were talking a couple of ten meters. maybe even more going to take a look at the panel again.

8. I was reacting to JL2's post in which he was using it.

9. Again reacting to JL2's post which claimed minato would blitz muu mid-air. Context learn to understand it. I beg you.



On number 2... Read t he Manga chapter again or watch the ep... He explains where he got the sand from, and not to forget that he was IN THE DESERT! so yeah....

On Number 5, what you say ARE match ups, you say "this Kage beats this Kage and this Kage beats this Kage... Or this kage cant do anything to this Kage and etc..." how do you know that he will end up fighting that certain Kage, thats called matchup...

On Number 7... doesnt matter what the number of meters are... even 100 meters are nothing... Here lets start it like this... first of all it doesnt have to be Minato vs Muu, but lets say this is the case (and i am just going a lont to prove the point only)... If by any chance Muu goes to the skies... there are 2 solutions, either Minato throws a Kunai (in which case he already throws a couple on the ground before he does) and when the kunai is close enough he teleports and uses his seal on him, now Muu is marked and he's going to be killed easily... In the case that Muu only appears after he flew far enough, a small Hashirama help should do the job, a small branch launches him in the air and then he throws the Kunai again... in both cases he gets to Muu before he attacks. And to solve the idea of "falling" from the sky if it ever crosses your mind... Minato teleported for to his house and then back to the cave in an instant when Kushina got attacked or something like that... the distance was FAR greater than a simple distance between a target in the sky and the ground... after Minato does what he wants he can always teleport back to the ground...

On Number 6... Suicide yes... the team win here is more important... And that jutsu is more efficient than you think, it was able to catch the Kyuubi, it can catch people... He will die in the process yes, but that also eliminates an enemy.

Up until now, its been only Hashirama and Minato... Tobirama can go up against the MK... And actually up until now, Hashirama hasnt done anything at all either... Muu which is in your opinion the strongest enemy of the Hokage-s at this team match i already solved his issue, and if not completely then partially... Its still solveable unlike most of you think.

On 8 and 9... I apologize, didnt know you were referring to JL and not in general.

________________________________________

EDIT

lol guys just chill. Why VM about it just post here. And BMC is a GREAT debater.

LOL... i am not mad XD I didnt know he was referring to JL at his post, so i apologized...

Also, i am debating to have fun anyways... so even if i dont win, so far this is interesting. But i am still not giving up ;)

[PrinceofPeace]

HOKAGES LOSE

minato- He would be busy with 3RK. THey are both speedsters so they would want to take each other out. Nobody would really help them out in their teams cuz they are moving so fast. Gama is usless. Its just an easy target for Muu to use Dust Release on. Plus Minato and Gama have no Combo.Muu is a sensor so if Minato tries to drop a frog on them Muu can blast it away or Ay could run away with his teammates or Gold Dust could toss it.

Hashirama- I LOVE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!! But all of his jutsu are wood style related which would be obliterated by Dust. So he does not help much. Muu would be on him like white on rice. Hashirama can not counter dust

Tobirama-lol he is the weakest. He only has water ninjutsu. 3RK can speed past it and kill him with one hit. Muu use dust release to get past water and Tobirama. 2MK would just get more powerful from water. And gold sand... idk what would happen

Hiruzen-He is made of hype. The monkey does not help much. He can not survive a hit against 3RK and Dust release is to fast. Genjutsu has no way to get past. And gold sand is too strong

In fact I believe Muu could solo

[konoha chimp]

Muu solo all the Hokage... seriously? :|

[BMC1994]

2. Ill read it later short on time now, gaaras dad uses magnet release for his gold dust not actual sand. Besides characters get their usual equipment in an fight. (its like saying minato wont have any kunai).

5. As long as his teammates have no way of protecting him against said action then it most likely will happen. Saying this kage cant hurt this, is simply ruling out possbilitys. As they would have no way of winning against that person in which case their focus would need be on a other.

7. But why cant muu dodge the kunai in this situation or why cant gaars dad gold dust deflect the kunai or jokey boy blow the kunai of its course. As you said its not an one on one.

6. The problem is it also eliminates him. And he doesnt have the psysical feats (yet) to catch any of the kage. If the TRK gets even an ounce of movement

Muus is not the strongest but his flight in combination with what is essentially nuking its an dangerous and hard to reach opponent. Hence he has free game on any and all of the hokages.

[Naruto Namikazi]

I myself am too lazy to read that chapter myself so seems like neither of us will read it now LOL

On 7... If the other Kage-s concentrate too much on protecting Muu from getting caught in Minato's teleportation, then they will get killed by Hashirama and the others... Also there is the Tobirama & Hashirama combo jutsu, its not something to be underestimated imo.

Also, Muu can go ahead and dodge it if he wants to... all Minato needs is getting himself in the air... even if the Kunai misses he still teleports and throws multiple Kunais in the air towards Muu, in this case Muu cant escape cause he doesnt know which one he will teleport to, and dont forget that there are also Kunais on the ground, he can always do a surprise attack on one of the Kage-s and put a seal on them, and we all know if thats done then its over.

Also Jinton is childs play compared to TBB, and Minato teleported the Kyuubis (the strongest of all Bijuus) TBB... So a Jinton can also be teleported, and that IF he gets a chance to attack using Jinton.

On 6, there is something called a better sacrifice in chess... a weak piece sacrificed but it takes with it a stronger piece and in the end it turns into an advantage for the team who made the sac. And thats exactly my point... This is a team match, yes, but there is no rule that states that ALL the team has to survive.

Now lets add the theory of Hashirama's forest into the theory... If its created, then its Minato's play ground and it gives him a much better chance to attack the flying Muu as well... And its Hashirama's forest... The only one that has a chance in this case is Muu... He would be the only one who would be able to get rid of the forest, but he will be too busy with Minato, and the others are stuck in a maze... They can go ahead and try destroying the forest, but that wont help... and if the forest is made, its good bye to the gold idea of the KK's... there wont be no ground to take sand from it will all be vegetation and huge trees... And in this case, Hashirama can attack ANY of them using his wood forest... and at anytime too... His forest isnt easy to beat.

[PrinceofPeace]

First of all the forest is not instant. It takes some time to form. The 2MK can destroy the forest with joki boi.
By the time gama jumps muu has used dust style to destroy it

There is no chance for the forest being completed before it is destoryed

[Naruto Namikazi]

Who said anything about summoning Gama ? Minato goes up there himself, read my previous post :)

Jokey Boy also needs charging time, he needs to heat up first remember? By the time it does some parts of the forest will be up... Right now i am too lazy to think of a counter to the Jokey Boy, although i am pretty sure i can make one up... Just played chess on Chess.com so my brain isnt really that well now LOL

[PrinceofPeace]

Huh?? I am SO SORRY!!! Can you please say how Minato reaches Muu when Muu is up so far in the air.

And Muu can destroy the Trees as they are being made if needed. And Gold Dust is faster than trees being made btw

the distance is too great for Minato to blitz off the bat

[konoha chimp]

Huh?? I am SO SORRY!!! Can you please say how Minato reaches Muu when Muu is up so far in the air.

And Muu can destroy the Trees as they are being made if needed. And Gold Dust is faster than trees being made btw

the distance is too great for Minato to blitz off the bat

I know I'm not using any facts or statistics to prove my point because I'm just lazy :lol: So I don't mind if you don't take my point seriously, but I think between all 4 of the Hokage, surely they can come up with some attempt to get Muu whilst he's in the air I mean the 4 Hokages are all geniuses, there must be atleast something they can do about Muu

[Maruko]

Chill, guys, Hashirama owns! Why? Cause he's Senju. :P

[PrinceofPeace]

until you have an idea I can say the kages are genuises as well and they will have a plan to counter the hokages

[konoha chimp]

Chill, guys, Hashirama owns! Why? Cause he's Senju. :P

^ This xD

[PrinceofPeace]

Muu solo's cuz dust release is the best kekki genkki

[Maruko]

^Pff.
I don't see dust release tame tailed beats, create LIFE form, build houses in a second, create forests, wooden dragons etc.
Maybe it's the most devastating one, but brain > devastation
Look at me, going all Itachi-ish. :P

[PrinceofPeace]

haha NO. Not realy Itachi like at all.

This is a fight not what is more verstile so Dust is still STRONGER than WOod style

[Maruko]

haha NO. Not realy Itachi like at all.

This is a fight not what is more verstile so Dust is still STRONGER than WOod style

Dust is not a kekkei genkai, it's a kekkei touta, BTW.
It'st not stronger.
Mokuton also has some sealing skills.
As seen when Yamato used it to restrain Kyuubi, Hashirama can easly restrain Muu and ciao.

Dust takes a few secondss to prepare and aim- Hashirama can dodge that.
Mokuton - one snake seal and roots come out of effing nowhere.
What if Muu can fly, meh. Hashirama summons that Dragon and flies on it.

[PrinceofPeace]

Oh tota that's right I forgot the name.
How do you strain something. That is in the air and invisible. Also that sealin only works on bijju.

If wood is stronger than why could a tired on okonki obliterate a forest?

Wood style also takes a while to form. Hashirama is not that fast to dodge. Muu destroys dragon with dust. Plus he is invisble

[athoatho]

-can Minato teleport the attack of MU
-what if Hashirama used the "bringer of darkness" technique to blind the Kages while Minato teleport the other three Hokages
-tobirama can flood the field with water making the 3RK helpless
-tobirama is good in time space technique ( still not clearly how but he has a teleport technique :( )
I will go for the Hokages

[Maruko]

Oh tota that's right I forgot the name.
How do you strain something. That is in the air and invisible. Also that sealin only works on bijju.

If wood is stronger than why could a tired on okonki obliterate a forest?

Wood style also takes a while to form. Hashirama is not that fast to dodge. Muu destroys dragon with dust. Plus he is invisble

He obliterated a forest because Dust is strong...
I'm just saying that it's not all in ''do haxx and destroy'' like I said in one of my last posts.
Hashirama wasn't known as the strongest shinobi for nothing.
Oonoki was bi*ch slapped by Madara when he was young.
Hashirama owned Madara and Kyuubi at the same time, he had few bijuu as pets, he could heal like wolverine, he was skilled with various weapons, he's the leader of the Senju.
Everyone knows that Hashirama can own anyone.
I'd rather take mokuton IRL than dust.
I just see it as a more unique and better power.

[Devils Lawyer]

You do know the wood jutsu Madara is using was Hashirama technique right. You Know the technique that he surpressed the whole army with, Naruto, and Bee. Not only that Hashirama combat skills would be on par with Madara's. The other three only turns this fight into a rape.

[PrinceofPeace]

No cuz dust release is a continuous attck. Actually in theory yes minato can but that leaves minato open for 3RK to blitz minato and nobody can stop that

The kages would release each other

And make 2MK powerful ... Alright with me

[Maruko]

You do know the wood jutsu Madara is using was Hashirama technique right. You Know the technique that he surpressed the whole army with, Naruto, and Bee. Not only that Hashirama combat skills would be on par with Madara's. The other three only turns this fight into a rape.
Keep in mind that Madara only has some of Hash's cells....Hashirama is the original mokuton user and a full Senju!
He rapes.

[PrinceofPeace]

He obliterated a forest because Dust is strong...
I'm just saying that it's not all in ''do haxx and destroy'' like I said in one of my last posts.
Hashirama wasn't known as the strongest shinobi for nothing.
Oonoki was bi*ch slapped by Madara when he was young.
Hashirama owned Madara and Kyuubi at the same time, he had few bijuu as pets, he could heal like wolverine, he was skilled with various weapons, he's the leader of the Senju.
Everyone knows that Hashirama can own anyone.
I'd rather take mokuton IRL than dust.
I just see it as a more unique and better power.


It pains me to say this. Stop talking bout his amazing feats and tell me how hashirama wins

[Devils Lawyer]

Keep in mind that Madara only has some of Hash's cells....Hashirama is the original mokuton user and a full Senju!
He rapes.
^This Madara is only copying Harishima. He has controlled all the tailed beasts at once.http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

[PrinceofPeace]

Yes he is the strongest Hokage so how does he beat muu

[Shisko Shi]

Perceiving the user's position is possible only for ninja who are astute enough to observe minute variations within their surrounding environment, such as distortions of air currents in the immediate vicinity or distinguishing sounds, i.e. footsteps etc.

THat is about Muu's so called invisable. Well it isn't just camo by redirecting light. So he can still be found easly. Or if there is a sensery ninja. I don't think any ae.

[PrinceofPeace]

You do know the WHOLE sensory unit could not find Muu right?

[Godaime Kazekage]

Ahh-so much Hashirama wank on this site, it's ridiculous. First off, let's get it out there that Hashirama has no chance against Muu-really none of the Hokage except Minato do, and even he would have to get lucky to win. The guy is a freaking flying invisible nuke. All we know about Hashirama is hype, yes he distributed tailed beasts at one point. Wasn't shown how he beat them though, didn't happen at the same time, and he has Bijuu kryptonite. Yes he beat EMS Madara, not that amazing since Gaara could also solo (Madara would've been finished if he didn't have Rinnegan after Gaara pulled him out of Susano'o). The Five Kage were beaten by a Madara with EMS, Rinnegan, Mokuton, a regenerating body and an infinite chakra pool-he's leagues above the Madara Hashirama beat.

Although to be fair, maybe I'm giving Muu a bit too much credit. His dust release has never been shown to cover as much area as Onoki's. Regardless, he can still pretty much snipe all of the Hokage after going invisible. The only one I think could stop him would be Minato, but even he could get unlucky with not noticing Muu attacking from behind.

I think it is possible that the Hokage could win, but it would be extremely difficult and much more likely that the other Kage would win. Minato would have to be on his A-game after marking the other Hokage since he's the only one of them that can react to blitzes from 3rd Raikage and surprise attacks from Muu.

[konoha chimp]

^ So basically what you're saying is the guy that took on Madara and Kyuubi is nothing but hype and he will lose because Muu can fly and spam dust release?

[PrinceofPeace]

^ So basically what you're saying is the guy that took on Madara and Kyuubi is nothing but hype and he will lose because Muu can fly and spam dust release?

Yes. That is how the BG's work. We do not know how hashirama beat madra after all.

Plus this is a totally different sceiro. We can not assume

HASHIRAMA IS A god

Since nobody can say how Muu loses... Kages win this

[ino>sakura!]

Don't underestimate the 1 hokage yeah mu is killer but he can't beat the first also why can the fourth win and not the first

[PrinceofPeace]

Don't get me wrong I am the BIGGEST HASHIRAMA FAN!!!!!!!

But we can not use A>B>C logic.
If nobody can say HOW instead of using hype Muu loses. Then this is OVER

Muu flies up and kills everyone with Dust Release even his own teammates

[Naruto Namikazi]

Dust release isnt going to kill anyone that easily... Forgot my post? Minato can teleport that thing somewhere else wherever that is just like he did with the TBB. Also, i will be posting less, busy on my side ;)

[ino>sakura!]

You can't teleport it

[Godaime Kazekage]

Dust release isnt going to kill anyone that easily... Forgot my post? Minato can teleport that thing somewhere else wherever that is just like he did with the TBB. Also, i will be posting less, busy on my side ;)

Minato can't be everywhere at once- (well, he kind of can :lol:), but he can't watch everywhere at once. If Muu suddenly appears behind Hashirama and disintegrates him with dust release there is nothing Minato can do unless he was nearby and watching out for him, which will be difficult while dodging coordinated assaults from the other Kage he is facing.

You can't teleport it
Why not?

[ino>sakura!]

Why can u

[konoha chimp]

Yes. That is how the BG's work. We do not know how hashirama beat madra after all.

Plus this is a totally different sceiro. We can not assume

HASHIRAMA IS A god

Since nobody can say how Muu loses... Kages win this

But he is!!! he's Senju!

[konoha chimp]

Also if Muu is so invinsible then how is it that the Second Mizukage managed to kill him? couldn't he of just flew in the air and spammed dust release at him and won by that logic?

[ino>sakura!]

Lot of good points

[Shisko Shi]

FIrst off Muu is not invisable, so don'y make it seem impossible to kill him.

Hashirama hasn't shown any sensing skills but he does have large AoE attacks...but that is useless in front of a guy who can fly. Anyways...Muu is a master sensor but even I doubt he can sense the real Hashirama as Madara has stated that only he could differentiate the real one from a MKB. Flower Pollen World is a great jutsu which makes Hashirama able to "meld" or "teleport" from within it. Hashirama also has medical/regen like Tsunade so....in the end, this battle is really a battle of attrition. Hashirama has no way of sensing Muu, but Muu has no way of getting rid of Pollen Flower World or huge Mokuton spam. He can certainly Jinton it(but no where is it stated he can Jinton a giant turtle like Onoki), but at the cost of his chakra. Hashirama is stated to be a chakra powerhouse. This is a hard match to choose sides.

On one side..a guy who can split, best sensor bar Naruto in the manga, a jutsu that erases matter, and can fly. On the other...we have a guy who can create large forests, can create MKB's, can move thru his Mokuton, has a high level genjutsu a Kage couldn't break out of until he was defeated, high level regen and an insane amount of chakra.

[ino>sakura!]

Wow you r spot on^^

[konoha chimp]

This entire thread has been watered down to "Muu flies and spams dust release = win"
Shisko is the only person whose actually gave a good response

[Shisko Shi]

(shhhh they will kill me if they find out.)

[Godaime Kazekage]

FIrst off Muu is not invisable, so don'y make it seem impossible to kill him.

Hashirama hasn't shown any sensing skills but he does have large AoE attacks...but that is useless in front of a guy who can fly. Anyways...Muu is a master sensor but even I doubt he can sense the real Hashirama as Madara has stated that only he could differentiate the real one from a MKB. Flower Pollen World is a great jutsu which makes Hashirama able to "meld" or "teleport" from within it. Hashirama also has medical/regen like Tsunade so....in the end, this battle is really a battle of attrition. Hashirama has no way of sensing Muu, but Muu has no way of getting rid of Pollen Flower World or huge Mokuton spam. He can certainly Jinton it(but no where is it stated he can Jinton a giant turtle like Onoki), but at the cost of his chakra. Hashirama is stated to be a chakra powerhouse. This is a hard match to choose sides.

On one side..a guy who can split, best sensor bar Naruto in the manga, a jutsu that erases matter, and can fly. On the other...we have a guy who can create large forests, can create MKB's, can move thru his Mokuton, has a high level genjutsu a Kage couldn't break out of until he was defeated, high level regen and an insane amount of chakra.
Some good points, but still multiple problems:
-It takes time to grow out a forest (w/out Minato's support he'd have his head lopped off by 3RK way before he could do it) and Muu can easily avoid it as well by just staying airborne.
-Madara's statements can't be taken as word of god. As far as Madara knows he's the only one who could see through his clones. He isn't at Hashirama's side for every fight he's been through his entire life. And assuming Muu is capable of Onoki's level of destructiveness, they'd all be taken out simultaneously anyway.
-Hashirama cannot teleport through the trees. Lololol. The speed of the melding isn't known at all. It could be slow as molasses for all we know.
-Regen means nothing against Dust Release.
-2nd Mizukage's Joki Boi can move through Hashirama's pollen forest with impunity and blow up Hashirama and his trees.

[Shisko Shi]

For one bro they are not all going after 1st. Eveyone seemed to put those to together. the others can deal with the rest while this is done. Also he cant just span dust release.
Dust Release techniques seem to require a certain amount of time when preparing the three-dimensional object, making it possible to prematurely halt the technique before it is completed, but once it's finished, the technique can be fired with astonishing speed. The hands also play a crucial role in preparation of techniques, interfering with the user's arms can hinder the technique
Dust Release techniques also appear to be rather chakra-taxing

So 1st spams the wood to surround him and grab his hands. As for the RK the first can also use a wood sheild. The lame one use to deflect the biiju bomb.

He can also try and trip the RK.

[Godaime Kazekage]

For one bro they are not all going after 1st. Eveyone seemed to put those to together. the others can deal with the rest while this is done. Also he cant just span dust release.
Dust Release techniques seem to require a certain amount of time when preparing the three-dimensional object, making it possible to prematurely halt the technique before it is completed, but once it's finished, the technique can be fired with astonishing speed. The hands also play a crucial role in preparation of techniques, interfering with the user's arms can hinder the technique
Dust Release techniques also appear to be rather chakra-taxing

So 1st spams the wood to surround him and grab his hands. As for the RK the first can also use a wood sheild. The lame one use to deflect the biiju bomb.

He can also try and trip the RK.
You're joking right? There is no way a wood shield is stopping Nukite jutsu-the penultimate piercing attack in the Narutoverse. Hashirama never deflected a bijuu bomb either that's just NUNS Generation fan fiction. And how is Hashirama going to trip something moving as fast as 3RK?

How does Hashirama "grab Muu's hands"?

I never said Muu could spam Dust Release.

[Shisko Shi]

First I never said you said spam, it was a statment.

How does he grab his hand? Wood of course.

Fan-fiction? Really I am sure they had to askthe owner before oing that. That would then mean he agreed to that being the story. So yes he deflexed it. If not there is Minatos jutsu that did the same when tobi attacked.

How will he trip him? Well for one Minato can stop him, you sit there and make all them seem to attack 1st that would then leave a opening on all of them. Minato can then teleport to Muu and grab his hands proventing the attack.

[Godaime Kazekage]

First I never said you said spam, it was a statment.

How does he grab his hand? Wood of course.

Fan-fiction? Really I am sure they had to askthe owner before oing that. That would then mean he agreed to that being the story. So yes he deflexed it. If not there is Minatos jutsu that did the same when tobi attacked.

How will he trip him? Well for one Minato can stop him, you sit there and make all them seem to attack 1st that would then leave a opening on all of them. Minato can then teleport to Muu and grab his hands proventing the attack.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkXY5JUFQNlFyElaBqthBOWIoUh3LHI WwFWqTBWvCHvbBr8DPXZQ

I just can't...

Hashirama would have to first notice Muu attacking him and then grow out a tree branch and grab him. He'd be disintegrated long before he could do this.
Yes, Minato could also theoretically intercept the attack, but again, he has to notice him attacking in time, before the can throw a kunai and teleport to Muu, and as you said there will be multiple opponents so Minato can't just sit around waiting for the invisible guy to show up while he's being attacked.

Side note: 1000 Posts-yay!

[WishfulFairie]

Godaime, this thread is not healthy for you, leave now.

I'll stop spamming

[Shisko Shi]

He isnt invisable.

[Sagepain]

Mu could solo quite easily :lol: Not counting that annoying Clam summon from the second Mizu.

Fan-fiction? Really I am sure they had to askthe owner before oing that. That would then mean he agreed to that being the story. So yes he deflexed it. If not there is Minatos jutsu that did the same when tobi attacked.

No, thats not canon. Period.

He isnt invisable.

Then he turns invisible? :???:

[WishfulFairie]

Fan fiction is NEVER canon!!!!
Please....just stop....someone lock this thread

[Godaime Kazekage]

Ok, wasn't actually fan fiction (it was part of video game). I just call it fan fiction, because it was so ridiculous. Shisko, I don't mean to rag on you, I just feel like I need to clear up the misperception that a lot of people have, which is "if it showed up in the anime, Kishi must've approved it". This idea is invalidated by the very example you bring up. In the Generations cut scene Hashirama deals with the Kyuubi by using one of Minato's jutsu (contract seal) and in the manga, even though the scene isn't shown, from other character's statements it's known that Hashirama immobilized the Kyuubi with the Wood Dragon and then Mito sealed it within herself.

[konoha chimp]

Yeah this thread began to piss me off as soon as people started claiming that Muu was practically god by flying and spamming dust release

[Devils Lawyer]

Lol muu gets a forest dropped on him never mind Hashirama has 4 other individuals helping him. Also Hashirama would need a higher speed than A's to bypass Madara's sharigan and land attacks. Anyone arguing for the kages fails to mention the fact Madara trolled team kages with an imitation of the first jutsu.

[PrinceofPeace]

lol dont be mean to SS he is newish

does everyone agree that Hokages would lose? Or do I need to explain how they lose?

[Shisko Shi]

Ok, but unless Camo is the same as invisable. it doesn't matter anymore. He could use Advent of a World of Flowering Tree.

Taking advantage of the innate properties of Wood Release which allows the user to force trees to grow on any surface in an instant, the user creates a dense forest of flowering trees. The pollen produced by these flowers is then released into the atmosphere and when inhaled, renders any afflicted target unconscious.
With enough willpower, it is possible to regain consciousness. However, in order to counter the technique fully, either the trees themselves must be destroyed completely or the target must continue to remain elevated above the dispersed pollen.
Or use some substance like a dust orrain to show were Muu is. He stil makes sound, air currents are curved do to body. It is just figuring out what move to use.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Lol muu gets a forest dropped on him never mind Hashirama has 4 other individuals helping him. Also Hashirama would need a higher speed than A's to bypass Madara's sharigan and land attacks. Anyone arguing for the kages fails to mention the fact Madara trolled team kages with an imitation of the first jutsu.

Maybe if you actually read the posts before you, you'd see that it was addressed. The Gokage lost to a Madara world's above in power to the Madara Hashirama beat. Nowhere is it stated that Edo Madara's wood style is weaker than Hashirama's, plus he gets Rinnegan, a regenerating body, and infinite chakra so he can spam large scale chakra taxing attacks as much as he likes without getting tired.

How exactly does a flying Muu get a forest "dropped" on him?

Lol at implying that Hashirama is faster than 3RK, Old man Hiruzen kept up with Hashirama in CQC and that's an actual feat instead of hype.

[PrinceofPeace]

Ok, but unless Camo is the same as invisable. it doesn't matter anymore. He could use Advent of a World of Flowering Tree.
Muu is not Camo he is literally inviible. His whole chakra network is like its gone. There is no way of detecting him. ANd Again, a tired Onoki blasted away the forest so a healthy Muu would do the same ut better

Taking advantage of the innate properties of Wood Release which allows the user to force trees to grow on any surface in an instant, the user creates a dense forest of flowering trees. The pollen produced by these flowers is then released into the atmosphere and when inhaled, renders any afflicted target unconscious.
With enough willpower, it is possible to regain consciousness. However, in order to counter the technique fully, either the trees themselves must be destroyed completely or the target must continue to remain elevated above the dispersed pollen.
Yes .....and good job copying this from naruto wiki lol.
Or use some substance like a dust orrain to show were Muu is. He stil makes sound, air currents are curved do to body. It is just figuring out what move to use.

Okay?? I think I got you.

And yes I supposed Minato could teleport the Dust Release away But that just leaves him open to be blitz by 3RK. The other kages could not react in time to defend Minato from 3RK

ADVENT OF FLOWING TRESS IS USELESSSSSSSS
Mu would destroy it with Dust Release or fly above it.


Please Tell me how the hokages beat Muu. Muu is the biggest threat along with 3RK.

[Sagepain]

Don't see how they would find the clam either >.>

Not while avoiding 2 nuke wielding Kage's (One of which they cannot see and the other which they most likely cannot react to excluding Minato) and Tons of gold dust at least.

Hashirama couldin't blitz Hiruzen who was pretty much even with Orochimaru with his sword in hand.
Without his sword Oro was sort of keeping up with 4 tailed Naruto for a while.

Hashirama has speed but not even close to the level that the Raikage's have shown.

Madara isin't shown to be all that fast anyways, besides the whirling wind left over wherever he moved during his first few moments in combat as an edo.

[Shisko Shi]

Well actully what he does is redirects the light to he blends in with the are. YOu are seeing what is around him.
Hiding with Camouflage Technique is what he uses right? Ok then

This is a ninja escape technique that allows the user to control how light is reflected around their body with chakra inflections. The technique also erases the user's scent and shadow, and is usable on any terrain, making it ideal not only for covert manoeuvres but also offensive strikes. Perceiving the user's position is possible only for ninja who are astute enough to observe minute variations within their surrounding environment, such as distortions of air currents in the immediate vicinity or distinguishing sounds, i.e. footsteps etc.
The usefulness of this ability can be entirely negated by those with special Vision or Sensing skills, except for particularly adept users, who can completely erase even their chakra signature with it.


But let us say they are on water. His foot prints can be seen. They all see each other, then 2st HK floods ther arena or the ground with water. He flys then well im lost lol

[Devils Lawyer]

Maybe if you actually read the posts before you, you'd see that it was addressed. The Gokage lost to a Madara world's above in power to the Madara Hashirama beat. Nowhere is it stated that Edo Madara's wood style is weaker than Hashirama's, plus he gets Rinnegan, a regenerating body, and infinite chakra so he can spam large scale chakra taxing attacks as much as he likes without getting tired.

How exactly does a flying Muu get a forest "dropped" on him?

Lol at implying that Hashirama is faster than 3RK, Old man Hiruzen kept up with Hashirama in CQC and that's an actual feat instead of hype.

I don't have to read the garbage. The only thing different about Madara from the Madara in the past is the rinnegan and his edo body. He was still taking a dump on the kages in speed, skill, and the power of his jutsu. He even point blamk stated he was trolling them. Those blows landed on him was from him not taking the fight seriously.You know what that means Hashirama is physically faster, stronger , and more skilled than all three.
Then you fail hard implying stamina loss Hashirama drains chakra.

Yamato was creating forest and housing sections. He is a weakling compared to Hashirama. Muu gets smacked with a forest.

Lol at the fact you can't even realize the speed in Naruto. A who is masssively faster than the third could barely handle the reaction speed of Madara and his sharigan. A was getting help from Muu. Hashirama went one on one with Madara and sharigan. That tells you everything you need to know about Hashirama. Madara was still Madara before the edo. He just didn't have the rinnegan. The rest is still all him. The edo didn't increase his sharigan abilities.

This thread is a rape Hashirama alone is a threat on another level. He has 3 more high class indivduals backing him up. Lol if Minato gets a chance to set up his seals.

[Sagepain]

Well actully what he does is redirects the light to he blends in with the are. YOu are seeing what is around him.
Hiding with Camouflage Technique is what he uses right? Ok then

This is a ninja escape technique that allows the user to control how light is reflected around their body with chakra inflections. The technique also erases the user's scent and shadow, and is usable on any terrain, making it ideal not only for covert manoeuvres but also offensive strikes. Perceiving the user's position is possible only for ninja who are astute enough to observe minute variations within their surrounding environment, such as distortions of air currents in the immediate vicinity or distinguishing sounds, i.e. footsteps etc.
The usefulness of this ability can be entirely negated by those with special Vision or Sensing skills, except for particularly adept users, who can completely erase even their chakra signature with it.


But let us say they are on water. His foot prints can be seen. They all see each other, then 2st HK floods ther arena or the ground with water. He flys then well im lost lolYeah, The last paragraph from that Naruto wikia copy pasta is talking about Mu alone :lol:

He's the most adept at using the jutsu. So much so that he is known as the "Invisible man" or "The Shinobi with no chakra".

Mu flies over the water in that scenario.

[PrinceofPeace]

Well actully what he does is redirects the light to he blends in with the are. YOu are seeing what is around him.
Hiding with Camouflage Technique is what he uses right? Ok then
No that is NOTthe technique he used. It is a much better higher level jutsu. None of the Hokages are sensor ninjas anyway so idk what you are getting at. The Hokages have NO WAY to find Muu. Have your read the chapters that Muu was in? Not even the ENTIRE Sensor unit could find Muu. So how do the HOkages??
ThEy DoN'T


I am going to save everybody the trouble from reading this. It is just somthing copied from wiki. And it does not apply to Muu cuz Muu does not use the Camo tech ....
Your welcome!

This is a ninja escape technique that allows the user to control how light is reflected around their body with chakra inflections. The technique also erases the user's scent and shadow, and is usable on any terrain, making it ideal not only for covert manoeuvres but also offensive strikes. Perceiving the user's position is possible only for ninja who are astute enough to observe minute variations within their surrounding environment, such as distortions of air currents in the immediate vicinity or distinguishing sounds, i.e. footsteps etc.
The usefulness of this ability can be entirely negated by those with special Vision or Sensing skills, except for particularly adept users, who can completely erase even their chakra signature with it.



But let us say they are on water. His foot prints can be seen. They all see each other, then 2st HK floods ther arena or the ground with water.
you do know that the 2MK can absorb water to make him stronger right?
He flys then well im lost lol

They are not water nor sand they are on rocks.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Fan-fiction? Really I am sure they had to askthe owner before oing that. That would then mean he agreed to that being the story. So yes he deflexed it. If not there is Minatos jutsu that did the same when tobi attacked.
.

Rules of the section state you can only use primary canon

http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112597

[Godaime Kazekage]

I don't have to read the garbage. The only thing different about Madara from the Madara in the past is the rinnegan and his edo body. He was still taking a dump on the kages in speed, skill, and the power of his jutsu. He even point blamk stated he was trolling them. Those blows landed on him was from him not taking the fight seriously.You know what that means Hashirama is physically faster, stronger , and more skilled than all three.
Then you fail hard implying stamina loss Hashirama drains chakra.

Yamato was creating forest and housing sections. He is a weakling compared to Hashirama. Muu gets smacked with a forest.

Lol at the fact you can't even realize the speed in Naruto. A who is masssively faster than the third could barely handle the reaction speed of Madara and his sharigan. A was getting help from Muu. Hashirama went one on one with Madara and sharigan. That tells you everything you need to know about Hashirama. Madara was still Madara before the edo. He just didn't have the rinnegan. The rest is still all him. The edo didn't increase his sharigan abilities.

This thread is a rape Hashirama alone is a threat on another level. He has 3 more high class indivduals backing him up. Lol if Minato gets a chance to set up his seals.

Wow. Truly the mark of a great debater. Says that no one has countered his points, because he hasn't actually read what others have said, because it's "garbage".

Please show me how Madara was taking a dump on the Kages in speed and skill, because I'm not seeing it. He clearly couldn't react properly to A's initial blitz, so he just used Susano'o as a shield the entire fight. You don't have to be fast if you block attacks. You're using transitive logic here and it doesn't work, unless you forget we debate in the BG's primarily based on feats and the feats show that Hashirama couldn't outspeed Old Hiruzen-we don't even know if Madara and Hashirama fought CQC-probably not, and Madara is never shown to be that fast either.

Madara won against the Kages by abusing his new powers. He could spam Wood Style and Susano'o all he liked because he had infinite chakra, he could even pull down two meteors without being phased lol. He'd have been easily killed by Onoki, who has the same powers as Muu if he didn't have Rinnegan absorption, hell, he'd have been killed by Gaara too after he got pulled out of Susano'o. In no way was Madara's "sharingan speed" too much for A to handle lol and A getting help from Muu...you mean Onoki? I don't know what the hell you mean by this. Madara hid in his Susano'o for the whole fight and only caught A once after he got distracted and stopped moving because of his concern for Tsunade.

And what is the arrogant Madara going to say about the opponent who beat him? Ohh, yeah Hashirama was super weak.:roll: The fact is Edo Madara is worlds above regular Madara; if you can't see that then there is no point in debating with you.

Finally, even stamina monsters get tired-Naruto for instance has been on his last legs multiple times in the manga recently. But I guess you think Hashirama has the stamina to call down two meteors, make a giant forest, maintain 25 clones using Susano'o and then use Perfect Susano'o without breaking a sweat. :roll:

[Devils Lawyer]

Wow. Truly the mark of a great debater. Says that no one has countered his points, because he hasn't actually read what others have said, because it's "garbage".

Please show me how Madara was taking a dump on the Kages in speed and skill, because I'm not seeing it. He clearly couldn't react properly to A's initial blitz, so he just used Susano'o as a shield the entire fight. You don't have to be fast if you block attacks. You're using transitive logic here and it doesn't work, unless you forget we debate in the BG's primarily based on feats and the feats show that Hashirama couldn't outspeed Old Hiruzen-we don't even know if Madara and Hashirama fought CQC-probably not, and Madara is never shown to be that fast either.

Madara won against the Kages by abusing his new powers. He could spam Wood Style and Susano'o all he liked because he had infinite chakra, he could even pull down two meteors without being phased lol. He'd have been easily killed by Onoki, who has the same powers as Muu if he didn't have Rinnegan absorption, hell, he'd have been killed by Gaara too after he got pulled out of Susano'o. In no way was Madara's "sharingan speed" too much for A to handle lol and A getting help from Muu...you mean Onoki? I don't know what the hell you mean by this. Madara hid in his Susano'o for the whole fight and only caught A once after he got distracted and stopped moving because of his concern for Tsunade.

And what is the arrogant Madara going to say about the opponent who beat him? Ohh, yeah Hashirama was super weak.:roll: The fact is Edo Madara is worlds above regular Madara; if you can't see that then there is no point in debating with you.

Finally, even stamina monsters get tired-Naruto for instance has been on his last legs multiple times in the manga recently. But I guess you think Hashirama has the stamina to call down two meteors, make a giant forest, maintain 25 clones using Susano'o and then use Perfect Susano'o without breaking a sweat. :roll:

Better than you by a good margin.

His sharigan speed is clearly faster than all five put together. A would have been done for if not for the fact Madara was countering all five. That requires a higher level of reaction speed. Not only that Madara was keeping up with Naruto's speed. Who is straight up faster than A. Harishima has been stated multiple times to be on par with Madara. Him fighting and being Madara's rival is a feat. The level his attacks stated, his kill stated,and we have even seen his jutsu. You are reaching hard if you think any of the kage are a match for him.

Yeah you are reaching hard now. Harishima controlled almost all of the bijuu at one time. That speaks clearly about their previous chakra levels. Madara wasn't even serious in his fight against the kages. Lets add onto the fact most of the offensive attacks he used against the kages where Harishima's. The final point that proves you fail hard was is the fact Madara was already comparable to the bijuu before he was even resurrected. This was also stated in the story. Which was why the alliance was wondering why Obito was hiding in the first place.

Well anyways your whole arguement is redundant. Point of fact wood style is capable of restraining two of the most powerful characters in the series. Fact iis Harishima is not even by himself. He has three more powerful indivduals backing him up. Minato with support is also one of the most potent threats in this match. The only thing I heard from you is downplaying. Which usually means you already know the outcome.;)

[Sagepain]

^ All of that means nothing if None of the Hokage can even detect Muu in the slightest before getting Nuked.

[Devils Lawyer]

That goes both ways. Harishima can create earth clones and travel through the earth like Zetsu. You do know that all of Zetsu's abilities are also Harishima's right. Yamato has also duplicated such abilities. Doesn't zetsu have a tracking ability?

[BMC1994]

^I think you mean wood clones.

I doubting hashi could travel through the fround but then again zetsus are his spawns.

zetsu has spores but i again doubt hashi could use that.

[Sagepain]

That goes both ways. Harishima can create earth clones and travel through the earth like Zetsu. You do know that all of Zetsu's abilities are also Harishima's right. Yamato has also duplicated such abilities. Doesn't zetsu have a tracking ability?

Yeah, of course.

They are "Wood" clones but whatever >.>

That traveling ability is slow as a snail. 3rd RK could get him before he finishes the merge and manages to travel.

Yes, Zetsu does have a tracking technique of some sort, but its chakra based from what we have seen of it.
Mu becomes undetectable by all but physical type tracking jutsu like Gaara's sand detection.

Otherwise the tracker ninja squad would have detected him...........but they did not.

[Maruko]

^ All of that means nothing if None of the Hokage can even detect Muu in the slightest before getting Nuked.

You know that Tobirama detected shinobi, find out how many of them were there, which village they came from and how skilled they were, just by touching the ground with his finger?
See Danzo's flashback before he died.

[Devils Lawyer]

^I think you mean wood clones.

I doubting hashi could travel through the fround but then again zetsus are his spawns.

zetsu has spores but i again doubt hashi could use that.

Everything Zetsu does is an imitation of Harishima abilities. Like I said before Yamato has perform most of the abilities Zetsu has displayed. Even entering the earth.

[Sagepain]

You know that Tobirama detected shinobi, find out how many of them were there, which village they came from and how skilled they were, just by touching the ground with his finger?
See Danzo's flashback before he died.

^ That would be an example of a physical type detection technique.

Mu flies and Tobirama can no longer detect him.

[Devils Lawyer]

Yeah, of course.

They are "Wood" clones but whatever >.>

That traveling ability is slow as a snail. 3rd RK could get him before he finishes the merge and manages to travel.

Yes, Zetsu does have a tracking technique of some sort, but its chakra based from what we have seen of it.
Mu becomes undetectable by all but physical type tracking jutsu like Gaara's sand detection.

Otherwise the tracker ninja squad would have detected him...........but they did not.

Muu isn't really that much of a threat against an iindivdual who can change the landscape with his attacks. Harishima has a massive range with his attacks. The close up on Km and Hachibi doesn't relay that fact.

[Maruko]

^ That would be an example of a physical type detection technique.

Mu flies and Tobirama can no longer detect him.

How do you know that those ninja that were tacking them back then were going on foot?

[Sagepain]

Muu isn't really that much of a threat against an iindivdual who can change the landscape with his attacks. Harishima has a massive range with his attacks. The close up on Km and Hachibi doesn't relay that fact.

So someone who leaves giant holes in Rock formations isin't much of a threat against someone who changes the landscape with his attacks.

Leaving a hole in a Giant Rock means he leaves a hole in whatever else comes his way including Hashirama himself.

The only issue your not addressing is how the hell Hashirama will even see Mu let alone touch him.

[Devils Lawyer]

So someone who leaves giant holes in Rock formations isin't much of a threat against someone who changes the landscape with his attacks.

Leaving a hole in a Giant Rock means he leaves a hole in whatever else comes his way including Hashirama himself.

The only issue your not addressing is how the hell Hashirama will even see Mu let alone touch him.

It called AOE. The range is massive probably comparable to the meteor. It has to be the way he was binding bijuu. He even at one point captured Kurama at full power. The wood is clearly more powerful than a rock dumb as that may sound. He doesn't need to see Muu to land an attack.:lol:

[Sagepain]

^ Mu Flies away from that :lol:

How do you know that those ninja that were tacking them back then were going on foot?

Ummm, what? What else would they be doing? Flying? or Swimming?

[Maruko]

^ Mu Flies away from that :lol:



Ummm, what? What else would they be doing? Flying? or Swimming?

You said that Tobirama can't detect those who're flying. That implies that Tobirama was able to detect those guys because they were not flying. How do you know that?
Maybe they did fly. :)
Also, what difference does it make? Flying, walking, swimming etc. Your presence is still there.
Plus, flying needs chakra control, and by flying he just makes his chakra easier to detect.

[PrinceofPeace]

Dude you can not prove they were walking on foot or water or air.

So are you saying that Tobirama is a better sensor THEN THE ENTIRE SENSORY UNIT!?!?!?!?!?!?
Not even the bykugan or the Sharigan could see him NO SENSOR COULD! The only person who detected him was Garra with his sand.

Trust me when I say: NONE OF THE HOKAGES OR KAGES CAN SENSE MUU!!!!!!!

Also the only person who could Counter Dust is Minato with his teleportating thing but that just leaves him open for 3RK to blitz Minato for the killz

[Sagepain]

You said that Tobirama can't detect those who're flying. That implies that Tobirama was able to detect those guys because they were not flying. How do you know that?
Maybe they did fly. :)
Also, what difference does it make? Flying, walking, swimming etc. Your presence is still there.
Plus, flying needs chakra control, and by flying he just makes his chakra easier to detect.

Tobirama's tracking tech was a physical type. He feels the vibrations made around him when someone or something moves.

If they are flying he can't feel that and therefore cannot detect them.

Either way, I'd like to see him crouch and touch the ground before he gets his head ripped off by the 3rd Raikage.

[PrinceofPeace]

Minato HAS to fight the 3rk. but 3rk is still faster since Minato has no prep. But this way speedsters fight speedsters. If not 3RK would blitz someone else.

If Tobirama uses water ninjutsu then 2MK will just absorb it...so Tobirama is USELESS. It will be VERY hard to kill 2MK since he is water himself

Hiruzen is also useless. He is not that fast nor strong. 3MK rips him apart and 2MK drowns him. Muu uses dust release. Hiruzen will be only to seal 2MK or 4KK IF LUCKY!!

Hashirama is the only threat but his trees are being destroyed by dust release

[Godaime Kazekage]

Better than you by a good margin.

His sharigan speed is clearly faster than all five put together. A would have been done for if not for the fact Madara was countering all five. That requires a higher level of reaction speed. Not only that Madara was keeping up with Naruto's speed. Who is straight up faster than A. Harishima has been stated multiple times to be on par with Madara. Him fighting and being Madara's rival is a feat. The level his attacks stated, his kill stated,and we have even seen his jutsu. You are reaching hard if you think any of the kage are a match for him.

Yeah you are reaching hard now. Harishima controlled almost all of the bijuu at one time. That speaks clearly about their previous chakra levels. Madara wasn't even serious in his fight against the kages. Lets add onto the fact most of the offensive attacks he used against the kages where Harishima's. The final point that proves you fail hard was is the fact Madara was already comparable to the bijuu before he was even resurrected. This was also stated in the story. Which was why the alliance was wondering why Obito was hiding in the first place.

Well anyways your whole arguement is redundant. Point of fact wood style is capable of restraining two of the most powerful characters in the series. Fact iis Harishima is not even by himself. He has three more powerful indivduals backing him up. Minato with support is also one of the most potent threats in this match. The only thing I heard from you is downplaying. Which usually means you already know the outcome.;)

You keep saying sharingan speed-what is that suppose to mean? Eyeballs don't make you faster, sure you can react better, but it doesn't increase your speed by any means. And it's even been shown that "sharingan speed" can't track A-see Sasuke vs. A. "A would've been done if it wasn't for the others" is just your opinion with nothing to back it up and it's a horrible argument and doesn't make any sense to say that Madara should've been able to catch A if the other Kage weren't there so that makes Madara's reactions better.

Naruto doesn't always move at full speed in his modes. The time Madara "reacted" to Naruto was when Naruto shouted a full sentence out at him while attacking; specifically, "You're dead, don't meddle with us!"- so he wasn't moving fast at all. I've told you this before, but apparently you have selective memory.

How is it reaching to say Onoki kills Madara with a jutsu that can disintegrate anything by dismantling at an atomic level. Especially when Madara has no notable speed feats and Onoki can use it on the scope of the island turtle.

Hashirama distributed the Bijuu to the other villages-it is never stated that he fought them all at the same time. His jutsu is also like kryptonite to them, it says nothing about his stamina. Try again.

Multiple other Kage have been compared to Bijuu as well. A for instance. Try again.

I said that the Hokage do have a chance if Minato is at his A-game. If you read the previous posts you would know that. I'm not downplaying, I'm just reacting to your wanking of a character who has only shown mid-tier feats and all of his power comes from hype. Your horrible arguments are completely based off of Hashirama (barely) beating a much weaker version of a character who beat the 5 Kage.

Edit: Lol at your argument of Hashirama growing a forest to stop a flying Muu.

[PrinceofPeace]

who doesnt know how to debate now DL (that's you DL) :p lol I kid I kid


GK, do you think Muu could Solo?

[Godaime Kazekage]

who doesnt know how to debate now DL (that's you DL) :p lol I kid I kid


GK, do you think Muu could Solo?

Probably not. Minato could just focus on countering Muu if Muu had to fight alone. I think one of the four Kage would be able to spot Muu attacking in time if they didn't have to worry about the other opponents and then Minato could redirect the attack with an ST Barrier or blitz with FTG. Was Hiruzen at prime in this fight? If so, he could clone spam and wait for an attack as well.

If Muu got lucky and got off a surprise attack on Minato it would be possible though.

[PrinceofPeace]

If Muu started off invisble and in the air then Muu would solo. I think Muu has enough distance to do that before Minato can use his natural speed to blitz or get out his FTG kuani.

But Muu is no idoit. He knows of Minato's warping so Muu can fire off quick sussions of his dust release and hid afterwards

[Maruko]

Both Mu and Onoki came to Madara after Konoha/Iwa alliance was formed.
Madara said that Konoha would always dominate Iwa.
Mu and Oonoki got mad and started the fight....and they both lost.
Madara>Muu/Onkoki
Hashirama > Madara
Hashirama > Muu/Onoki

Konoha shinobis are the strongest. They always were and always will be. That's how the story is.

[Shisko Shi]

Good point, but that doesn't prove much. The first was also used to fighting an uchia. The others arn't so that could be a problem. I mean what may not work with the 1st might work with the others. But what worked on Madara might not work on the 1st.

[Maruko]

Good point, but that doesn't prove much. The first was also used to fighting an uchia. The others arn't so that could be a problem. I mean what may not work with the 1st might work with the others. But what worked on Madara might not work on the 1st.

Madara was not used to fighting a dust user, but he still won. :lol:

Can't you see what Madara did to Kages? He would've done the same thing if he were alive, too.
He got hit by dust release only to show them the face of the First.
He laughed at them like they were kids...
Didn't even break a sweat.

Did you see that perfect Susano'o? Well, 1st raped it.

[Shisko Shi]

I want to agree but POP will say something like this... Well 1st doesn't have that. Basicly Madara had tools that helped with that fight. But not with 1st...

lol

[Maruko]

I want to agree but POP will say something like this... Well 1st doesn't have that. Basicly Madara had tools that helped with that fight. But not with 1st...

lol


xD

[Shisko Shi]

I bet you he will =P

They are not water nor sand they are on rocks.


Pop I have already mentioned what it is. I looked it up it is a camo the redirects the light. Either way he STILL makes sound. And if you read my post right you would see that I said. Tobirama would Summon water, or someone could make sand. I know whwere they are at, the Konaha crater. So if he summoned water on the place who do you think would actully win when water splashes are made from walking on it? They would then see that. He jumps of by that time 1st would have summoned the world tree and used the pollen to find him in the air or knock them all out. Yea you got 3RK Manito has that. Then you got Haritobi can distract the others for a bit till Tobirama is done with the water. At that time he helps the 3rd out.

[Devils Lawyer]

You keep saying sharingan speed-what is that suppose to mean? Eyeballs don't make you faster, sure you can react better, but it doesn't increase your speed by any means. And it's even been shown that "sharingan speed" can't track A-see Sasuke vs. A. "A would've been done if it wasn't for the others" is just your opinion with nothing to back it up and it's a horrible argument and doesn't make any sense to say that Madara should've been able to catch A if the other Kage weren't there so that makes Madara's reactions better.

Naruto doesn't always move at full speed in his modes. The time Madara "reacted" to Naruto was when Naruto shouted a full sentence out at him while attacking; specifically, "You're dead, don't meddle with us!"- so he wasn't moving fast at all. I've told you this before, but apparently you have selective memory.

How is it reaching to say Onoki kills Madara with a jutsu that can disintegrate anything by dismantling at an atomic level. Especially when Madara has no notable speed feats and Onoki can use it on the scope of the island turtle.

Hashirama distributed the Bijuu to the other villages-it is never stated that he fought them all at the same time. His jutsu is also like kryptonite to them, it says nothing about his stamina. Try again.

Multiple other Kage have been compared to Bijuu as well. A for instance. Try again.

I said that the Hokage do have a chance if Minato is at his A-game. If you read the previous posts you would know that. I'm not downplaying, I'm just reacting to your wanking of a character who has only shown mid-tier feats and all of his power comes from hype. Your horrible arguments are completely based off of Hashirama (barely) beating a much weaker version of a character who beat the 5 Kage.

Edit: Lol at your argument of Hashirama growing a forest to stop a flying Muu.
Lol learn to pay attention to the story you are trying to debate. The sharigan slows the movements down of the opponent considerably. Giving them precog and allowing them a faster reaction. Making them faster. Also Sasuke was still countering A blow for blow because of the sharigan. Case and point A losing his arm. A just had a dominant form of strength. Every attack A made Sasuke countered in return with the sharigan. That is sharigan speed.

Lol you can't use words to gauge the speed of a character in the story. Words operate as a free action. They almost never match up with the timeframe and movements of characters. Also character movements are slowed down to illustrate combat scenes. Don't expect shade lines for each and every highspeed movement. Bee is just as fast as A but you hardly ever see highspeed shades associated with his speed.

You are clearly not using your brain if you think Madara has no speed feats. Just reacting and countering with attacks is a form of combat speed feats. Not everything is illustrated by blurs. Which is why you are under the impression Madara has no speed feats. A character who faced a whole army down and was casually raping them with his speed at one point. You need to re read from Madara's appearance.

When did Onoki even land a hit Madara? If he did he had a lot of help.Also Madara cleave a mountain and sveral kilometers how is the turtle impressive at this point?

Lol did you say multiple kage has been compared to bijuu. Chapter and pg please. Then you even said A.

So the bijuu magically appeared to him with pokeballs. Yeah just stop.:lol:

Mid tier yet he is known for cutting a valley with his attacks. Taming the most powerful beings in this story, and known for one of the greatest shinobi in the story. Yeah what the hell story are you reading. Wood style has decimated the shinobi army. Also you keep saying Madara was weaker when in fact you have no clue what you are talking about. He was still capable of cleaving a mount in half with susanoo and every sharigan move set before he died. Not only that he had a full powered Kurama under his control with him. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about with that statement.

Wood style is massive in height and range nothing suggest muu or Onoki can escape.

[Maruko]

Lol learn to pay attention to the story you are trying to debate. The sharigan slows the movements down of the opponent considerably. Giving them precog and allowing them a faster reaction. Making them faster. Also Sasuke was still countering A blow for blow because of the sharigan. Case and point A losing his arm. A just had a dominant form of strength. Every attack A made Sasuke countered in return with the sharigan. That is sharigan speed.

Lol you can't use words to gauge the speed of a character in the story. Words operate as a free action. They almost never match up with the timeframe and movements of characters. Also character movements are slowed down to illustrate combat scenes. Don't expect shade lines for each and every highspeed movement. Bee is just as fast as A but you hardly ever see highspeed shades associated with his speed.

You are clearly not using your brain if you think Madara has no speed feats. Just reacting and countering with attacks is a form of combat speed feats. Not everything is illustrated by blurs. Which is why you are under the impression Madara has no speed feats. A character who faced a whole army down and was casually raping them with his speed at one point. You need to re read from Madara's appearance.

When did Onoki even land a hit Madara? If he did he had a lot of help.Also Madara cleave a mountain and sveral kilometers how is the turtle impressive at this point?

Lol did you say multiple kage has been compared to bijuu. Chapter and pg please. Then you even said A.

So the bijuu magically appeared to him with pokeballs. Yeah just stop.:lol:

Mid tier yet he is known for cutting a valley with his attacks. Taming the most powerful beings in this story, and known for one of the greatest shinobi in the story. Yeah what the hell story are you reading. Wood style has decimated the shinobi army. Also you keep saying Madara was weaker when in fact you have no clue what you are talking about. He was still capable of cleaving a mount in half with susanoo and every sharigan move set before he died. Not only that he had a full powered Kurama under his control with him. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about with that statement.

Wood style is massive in height and range nothing suggest muu or Onoki can escape.
Must spread! Noooooooooo!
Kages rape them. End of story. :lol:
Nice text, dude.

[PrinceofPeace]

stop using Madara>>Onoki/Muu as "evidence"

We do not know ANYTHING about their states. For all we know they could have not learned Dust Release yet or the technique where Muu dissaperas

Or they could have been tired

Lol learn to pay attention to the story you are trying to debate. The sharigan slows the movements down of the opponent considerably. Giving them precog and allowing them a faster reaction. Making them faster. Also Sasuke was still countering A blow for blow because of the sharigan. Case and point A losing his arm. A just had a dominant form of strength. Every attack A made Sasuke countered in return with the sharigan. That is sharigan speed.
The opponent does not slow down. The User sees the movements more clearly and it lets the user have a better chance to dodge. But in some cases the foe is too fast to track. Idk where you get your info from

When did Onoki even land a hit Madara?
I love how you tell others to read the manga yet you forget stuff.
Anyway When Madara was using the Advent of flowing trees Onoki used Dust Release to destroy the trees and hit Madara...but Madara wanted to get hit though
If he did he had a lot of help.
Nope all by himself
Also Madara cleave a mountain and sveral kilometers how is the turtle impressive at this point?

Lol did you say multiple kage has been compared to bijuu. Chapter and pg please. Then you even said A.
3RK took on Habachi so he was like a bijju.
Yagura was a bijju
Hashirama was stronger than bijju on So6P level

Mid tier yet he is known for cutting a valley with his attacks. Taming the most powerful beings in this story, and known for one of the greatest shinobi in the story. Yeah what the hell story are you reading. Wood style has decimated the shinobi army. Also you keep saying Madara was weaker when in fact you have no clue what you are talking about. He was still capable of cleaving a mount in half with susanoo and every sharigan move set before he died. Not only that he had a full powered Kurama under his control with him. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about with that statement.

Wood style is massive in height and range nothing suggest muu or Onoki can escape
wood justsu is slower then Dust. As the Wood grows Muu wouold obliterate it away
.

[Devils Lawyer]

First of all learn to read what I said. I never said it slowed the opponent down. I said it slowed their movements down for the sharigan user. It is a form of precog. Do you know what precog means?

Next you tell me of a random fight page. That Madara let himself get hit. Which clearly says the scene is insignificant.

3rk had a massive durabilty and he didn't even defeat the Hachibi by himself, Yagura is like no sh-- son, Harishima was the original bijuu tamer so he was a double no sh--

Yeah he would die of chakra exhaustion trying to completely destroy Harishima;s forest. That or Harishima just puts everyone on the field to sleep.

[PrinceofPeace]

Onoki destroy the forest in a weakened state. He destroyed Edo Madara's forest who had unlimited chakra so how is his forest any less than HASHIRMAMA's

and neither of the kages nor hokages have a sharigan so idk why you even bring it up. Especially without your proof.

But again nothing is stoping Mu. He will spam dust style in the sky and Minato can not do anything. He is not fast enough to stop him with the distance or prep and he is busy with 3RK.


The forest is not fast enough and would be oblitereated

2HK jutsu's only help 2MK

and Hiruzen is just there to be there

[Maruko]

^It was stated by Iruka in part 1 that Hiruzen's the strongest hokage ever.
He ain't there to ''just be there''. He took on both Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama and still managed to seal them both.

[PrinceofPeace]

So what can Hiruzen do? We can not go by just hype.

Hirzuen's fire style is defeated by
-4KK sand
-dodged with 3RK speed
-does not effect 2MK 9Cuz he is made of water)
-2TK dodges with flight or obliterates it with dust

What can Hiruzen do?

He can summon Enma but its practically just a weapon. It would get destroyed by dust style and beaten to death by 3RK. and Enma can not do physcial harm to 2MK.

By luck Hirzuen MAYYY be able to beat 4KK

[Sagepain]

^It was stated by Iruka in part 1 that Hiruzen's the strongest hokage ever.
He ain't there to ''just be there''. He took on both Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama and still managed to seal them both.

With mid tier feats he defeated both Hashirama and Tobirama......

That doesin't help your argument in the slightest. :roll:

[Bazk]

you cant really compare madaras forrest who got the skill right before he went in to exile crying for a 100 years vs the guy who has been using it since he stood on his legs. and unlimited chakra doesnt mean he can extend any attack for infinity like a fireball that goes around the earth 6X, it means he uses a tech that A. Drains his chakra for that amount and the replentish itself or B the techs doesnt drain chakra at all or if it does his supply is limitless like it takes 15 chakra to use fireball and his supply is 999999999999999999999999999 etc

[Sagepain]

^ Its been proven in the series multiple times that the more chakra you put into a Technique/Jutsu the more powerful it gets.

As seen with many Rasengan variants/ More clones, etc....

[Devils Lawyer]

It should be a common sense answer that both Hashirama and Madara had a massive amount of chakra even without being edo.:lol:

[Maruko]

With mid tier feats he defeated both Hashirama and Tobirama......

That doesin't help your argument in the slightest. :roll:

What? Rofl.
You too support the statement which says that Hiruzen has no powers and is there because he's, well, there?
Yeah, he was a hokage because he sucked. :lol:

[Godaime Kazekage]

Alright DL, this is how you debate:
Lol learn to pay attention to the story you are trying to debate. The sharigan slows the movements down of the opponent considerably. Giving them precog and allowing them a faster reaction. Making them faster. Also Sasuke was still countering A blow for blow because of the sharigan. Case and point A losing his arm. A just had a dominant form of strength. Every attack A made Sasuke countered in return with the sharigan. That is sharigan speed.
Faster reaction doesn't make you physically faster. Chapter 37: Lee beats down Sasuke even though Sasuke has his magic eyes and he says, "Even if you read my movement with your eyes, your body does not have the speed to react to my taijutsu".

Sasuke was not countering A blow for blow when he got serious (aka activated V2). Chapter 463: Sasuke is looking in the opposite direction from where A is attacking. He activates Susano'o covered in Amaterasu so A won't attack him. Karin says, "Raikage is impossibly fast! But this way Sasuke is protected even if he can't follow Raikage's movements!" A lost his arm, because he was angry and didn't want to be underestimated so he decided to attack Sasuke anyway, despite knowing his arm would be lost to Amaterasu.

Who's the one not paying attention to the story now? `;)

Lol you can't use words to gauge the speed of a character in the story. Words operate as a free action. They almost never match up with the timeframe and movements of characters. Also character movements are slowed down to illustrate combat scenes. Don't expect shade lines for each and every highspeed movement. Bee is just as fast as A but you hardly ever see highspeed shades associated with his speed.

Haha...wow, nice try. You're really grasping at straws now and are not going to be convincing anyone with this. Seriously, think about it. You're saying that someone shouting out an entire sentence which the opponent is able to hear is moving faster than someone who can move faster than the eye can track. :lol: All of the fastest blitzes in the Naruto manga have been done without words or interrupt a thought/speech process. So no "words as a free action", as it defies both physics and common sense :lol:. The only time I could even begin to agree with that is when characters are thinking about something. Bee is not nearly as fast as A either.

You are clearly not using your brain if you think Madara has no speed feats. Just reacting and countering with attacks is a form of combat speed feats. Not everything is illustrated by blurs. Which is why you are under the impression Madara has no speed feats. A character who faced a whole army down and was casually raping them with his speed at one point. You need to re read from Madara's appearance.
Yeah, he cut down, what, like 7 fodder...such a great speed feat :roll: I guess you also forgot how Gaara casually caught his sword in that same chapter. I'm not saying Madara is slow, he's just not anywhere close to A or Naruto level speed.

When did Onoki even land a hit Madara? If he did he had a lot of help.Also Madara cleave a mountain and sveral kilometers how is the turtle impressive at this point?
It's impressive in that it can't be avoided and is a surefire 100% death sentence. Unless you think Madara can survive being atomically dismantled.

Lol did you say multiple kage has been compared to bijuu. Chapter and pg please. Then you even said A.
Chapter 463, Page 8: Karin says, "Raikage's chakras are still growing. These are Tailed Beast levels."
Chapter 555, Page 9: Hachibi flashback in which 3rd Raikage takes on Gyuuki 1v1.

So the bijuu magically appeared to him with pokeballs. Yeah just stop.:lol:
Madara caught Gyuuki with minimal difficulty using wood style. It's a lot easier to defeat an opponent when you have its "kryptonite".

Mid tier yet he is known for cutting a valley with his attacks. Taming the most powerful beings in this story, and known for one of the greatest shinobi in the story. Yeah what the hell story are you reading. Wood style has decimated the shinobi army. Also you keep saying Madara was weaker when in fact you have no clue what you are talking about. He was still capable of cleaving a mount in half with susanoo and every sharigan move set before he died. Not only that he had a full powered Kurama under his control with him. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about with that statement.
Pretty much all of what you mentioned was hype. What we've actually seen from Hashirama is largely unimpressive. As Sagepain said, he was taken down by Hiruzen with mid-tier feats. All we know about Hashirama is what Madara has told us while he's stroking his ego and trying to justify how he lost. It's like you lose a fight against an Orange belt Karate student, but then bring a gun to a fight against a blackbelt and say, "Yeah, that orange belt was way tougher than you. Because you know, he beat me."

And EMS Madara as strong as Edo Madara...? :lol: Trololololol

Wood style is massive in height and range nothing suggest muu or Onoki can escape.

Yeah, nothing except the fact that Onoki did avoid it. Chapter 575. You're still trying to argue that you can catch a flying opponent by growing a forest. smh :lol:


@Maruko: Your analogy about Madara vs. Onoki and Muu doesn't really work because you're making a ton of assumptions.
First off, Onoki and Muu walked into the "fight" against Madara thinking they were going to be involved in a peace treaty/Alliance and were already making eye contact with Madara which means easy prey to genjutsu. Second, there is no way of knowing if either of them could use Dust Release at the time.

[Bazk]

^ Its been proven in the series multiple times that the more chakra you put into a Technique/Jutsu the more powerful it gets.

As seen with many Rasengan variants/ More clones, etc....

yeah and? if he would have (to simplify) 200mana dies and get ressurected he doesnt get like 9999 mana he only can use as much he could when he was alive its not like that you get better or more chakra

[Sagepain]

^ That was also proven in the manga.......

It was literally stated. Madara has an immortal body and a limitless amount of chakra.

In this case Madara did indeed get better then he was before being brought back via Edo Tensei. So I don't get your point.

[Devils Lawyer]

Alright DL, this is how you debate:

Faster reaction doesn't make you physically faster. Chapter 37: Lee beats down Sasuke even though Sasuke has his magic eyes and he says, "Even if you read my movement with your eyes, your body does not have the speed to react to my taijutsu".

Sasuke was not countering A blow for blow when he got serious (aka activated V2). Chapter 463: Sasuke is looking in the opposite direction from where A is attacking. He activates Susano'o covered in Amaterasu so A won't attack him. Karin says, "Raikage is impossibly fast! But this way Sasuke is protected even if he can't follow Raikage's movements!" A lost his arm, because he was angry and didn't want to be underestimated so he decided to attack Sasuke anyway, despite knowing his arm would be lost to Amaterasu.

First of all the sharigan Sasuke was using against was completely weak. Case and point it steadily getting stronger over the course of part 1. But you are correct Lee was massively faster at the time and yes if the opponent is faster than the sharigan the user can get blitzed. Which tells you how fast Harishima had to be.

Also yes Sasuke did A hit Sasuke one time from the blindside after he dodged amaterasu. Sasuke activated ameterasu as a shield a split second before A blow landed. That means his sharigan was just as fast. Otherwise A would have tagged him before it activated. A had one moment where he was faster not even by much.

Who's the one not paying attention to the story now? `;)


Not you:lol:

Haha...wow, nice try. You're really grasping at straws now and are not going to be convincing anyone with this. Seriously, think about it. You're saying that someone shouting out an entire sentence which the opponent is able to hear is moving faster than someone who can move faster than the eye can track. :lol: All of the fastest blitzes in the Naruto manga have been done without words or interrupt a thought/speech process. So no "words as a free action", as it defies both physics and common sense :lol:. The only time I could even begin to agree with that is when characters are thinking about something. Bee is not nearly as fast as A either.

What you are saying is stupid. Have you never read or watched db. They move at intense speeds and hold full conversations. This is not real life. Superman has had conversations at the speed of light. You have just proved how new to this you really are.:lol:

Yeah, he cut down, what, like 7 fodder...such a great speed feat :roll: I guess you also forgot how Gaara casually caught his sword in that same chapter. I'm not saying Madara is slow, he's just not anywhere close to A or Naruto level speed.

Yet he wasn't tagged by not one fodder. Nor was even taking any of his fights seriously. Madara not to long ago casually countered Naruto's attacks against him. By lazily swinging his fan. So him not being fast as A and Naruto is far from the truth.:lol:
It's impressive in that it can't be avoided and is a surefire 100% death sentence. Unless you think Madara can survive being atomically dismantled.

I not saying Madara can't be defeated. I am just telling you his level. Which you are doubting.


Chapter 463, Page 8: Karin says, "Raikage's chakras are still growing. These are Tailed Beast levels."
Chapter 555, Page 9: Hachibi flashback in which 3rd Raikage takes on Gyuuki 1v1.
Chakra level is nothing only the power matters. Kisame had bijuu chakra levels. The raikage I will concede on that.:lol:

Madara caught Gyuuki with minimal difficulty using wood style. It's a lot easier to defeat an opponent when you have its "kryptonite".


That is not a beast krpytonite. Bee and Naruto both escaped so that is definetely not true. It is just that strong.

Pretty much all of what you mentioned was hype. What we've actually seen from Hashirama is largely unimpressive. As Sagepain said, he was taken down by Hiruzen with mid-tier feats. All we know about Hashirama is what Madara has told us while he's stroking his ego and trying to justify how he lost. It's like you lose a fight against an Orange belt Karate student, but then bring a gun to a fight against a blackbelt and say, "Yeah, that orange belt was way tougher than you. Because you know, he beat me."

Yeah that wasn't Harishima that was a much weaker edo. Oro's edo at the time was nowhere near as powerful as Kabuto's. Also the story has clearly changed from part 1. You have no clue what retcon means either do you. Did you know the shikkaku wasn't even a tailed beast at first just a evil spirit. The story has evolved and changed since then. :lol:

And EMS Madara as strong as Edo Madara...? :lol: Trololololol

He had a full powered Kurama under his control as a weapon. You do know Kuram was massively stronger right. So yeah fail.


Yeah, nothing except the fact that Onoki did avoid it. Chapter 575. You're still trying to argue that you can catch a flying opponent by growing a forest. smh :lol:

Yeah no when the attack was first launched he got hit. He just got back up and countered it. That is kudos on Onoki. Still doesn't change the fact he was hurt.

[konoha chimp]

I think we should just stop this thread until/if we actually see Hashirama in action in the manga :| because watching you guys is like seeing you debate with a brick wall, you aren't getting anywhere :lol:

[Sagepain]

I think we should just stop this thread until/if we actually see Hashirama in action in the manga :| because watching you guys is like seeing you debate with a brick wall, you aren't getting anywhere :lol:^ Thats why I stopped posting.

If I continued to debate I have this feeling Hashirama will pull something out his ass that even Madara hasin't seen and things will go crazy.

No way Orochimaru is gonna let Sasuke go when he has 4 Former Hokage to use and capture him with :lol:

Anyways, At the moment Hashirama only has hype going for him, same with Tobirama and Hiruzen. That wouldin't have been the case if Madara didin't have Wood Style and started wanking him though.

[Devils Lawyer]

The thing about Harishima is though you can tell how strong he is.There is a flashback with him holding a full powered Kurama fighting Madara. Half of Kurama's power was sealed away. He was double what you see now. Half his energy now was capable of engulfing a mountain range. You are basing your arguements about Harishima from part 1. The story has changed massively after the sound war. Oro displayed powers that would have sidewalked stomped Hiruzen in part 2. Stories change frequently and new ideas are introduced.

[PrinceofPeace]

but those hype feats does not prove he will beat Muu and Co.
It's not like he has speed feats or something

And we do not even know if the duo had dust release when Madara fought them

[Godaime Kazekage]

First of all the sharigan Sasuke was using against was completely weak. Case and point it steadily getting stronger over the course of part 1. But you are correct Lee was massively faster at the time and yes if the opponent is faster than the sharigan the user can get blitzed. Which tells you how fast Harishima had to be.
Seeing as we never saw the fight and both Hashirama and Madara's fighting styles revolve around tanking attacks/ attacking at a distance, it says nothing about how fast Hashirama had to be. Bee is also much slower than A and he murked MS Sasuke in base.

Also yes Sasuke did A hit Sasuke one time from the blindside after he dodged amaterasu. Sasuke activated ameterasu as a shield a split second before A blow landed. That means his sharigan was just as fast. Otherwise A would have tagged him before it activated. A had one moment where he was faster not even by much.
And you're reaching again. How the heck does activating Amaterasu have anything to do with reacting to your opponent? Amaterasu activation is (essentially) instantaneous. It has nothing to do with Sasuke's reactions. A didn't go for a straight blitz, he was moving around before he attacked and Sasuke was looking the wrong way and couldn't tell where A would attack from-Karin's statement makes this crystal clear. Your sharingan wanking is just too much.


Not you:lol:
Apparently yes, me; since you just had to owe up to being wrong multiple times...man, you have some serious short term memory loss `:)


What you are saying is stupid. Have you never read or watched db. They move at intense speeds and hold full conversations. This is not real life. Superman has had conversations at the speed of light. You have just proved how new to this you really are.:lol:
I haven't seen these FTL conversations in Superman, but I can bet you they involve some kind of telepathy. And last time I checked this manga was called Naruto and not Dragonball or Superman. If you can show me a panel when a Naruto character is talking during a blitz I will concede the point. I hope you realize how much you are trying to twist what happened on panel to fit your point.

My version (aka what happened): Naruto jumps at Madara preparing to attack while yelling at him. He doesn't have to drastically break any laws of physics or established rules made by the author to do this.

Your version: I don't even know how to put this mechanistically...Naruto blitzes with insane speed by jumping and falling towards Madara in an arc pattern while somehow communicating in full sentences with him over this same time frame. Defies physics and common sense for the sole purpose of supporting Devils Lawyer's argument in a fictional battle between Kage.

Which seems more logical? When presented with two possible mechanisms the simpler one is correct in most cases-Occam's Razor-maybe you've heard of it?

Yet he wasn't tagged by not one fodder. Nor was even taking any of his fights seriously. Madara not to long ago casually countered Naruto's attacks against him. By lazily swinging his fan. So him not being fast as A and Naruto is far from the truth.:lol:
So fighting against a few fodder for about 5 panels and not being tagged by them qualifies a character as being fast now? :roll:

Yeah, because blocking an attack from someone who is yelling at you and essentially falling right into you makes you fast. :lol:

Do you think Naruto and A move at full speed the entire time they are using their cloaks? I can give you over a hundred panels that say otherwise.


That is not a beast krpytonite. Bee and Naruto both escaped so that is definetely not true. It is just that strong.
There are so many panels that say otherwise. Did you fall asleep for half of the panels Yamato is in and recently Guy yelling, "That damn tree is sucking up the Kyuubi's chakra!" while the Wood Dragon got larger and the Kurama chakra cloak disappated?



Yeah that wasn't Harishima that was a much weaker edo. Oro's edo at the time was nowhere near as powerful as Kabuto's. Also the story has clearly changed from part 1. You have no clue what retcon means either do you. Did you know the shikkaku wasn't even a tailed beast at first just a evil spirit. The story has evolved and changed since then. :lol:
Absolutely no evidence for Oro's Edos being weaker than Kabuto's, just another case of you wanting to twist the story to support your argument. The only difference in Kabuto's is that he can give them more control of their actions and emotions.

And thank you for making another baseless assumption about my intelligence and familiarity with the story. Of course I know Kishi retconned Hashirama's strength, but it doesn't take away the fact that he was taken down with mid-tier feats by an Old Hiruzen. As I have repeatedly reminded you we debate primarily through feats in the BG's and until Hashirama can show this insane speed that you maintain I will continue to use what the author has actually shown us-which is Hiruzen going toe-to-toe with him in CQC. Just because Shukaku is now known to be a Bijuu and not some spirit from a pot doesn't mean that his feats against Naruto and Gamabunta are now invalidated.


He had a full powered Kurama under his control as a weapon. You do know Kuram was massively stronger right. So yeah fail.
If the battle happened anything like what was shown in the manga vs. Naruto the Kyuubi would be immobilized quickly with Wood Dragon (Bijuu kryptonite) and sealed by Mito. Seeing as Hashirama has nothing that can counter a TBB it pretty much had to happen that way. So yeah, fail.



Yeah no when the attack was first launched he got hit. He just got back up and countered it. That is kudos on Onoki. Still doesn't change the fact he was hurt.

You mean after Madara surprised the Kages while they were having their little pow wow and knocking them down into the forest? Cuz Onoki dodged him creating the forest he just got surprise attacked by Madara's Susano'o. Yeah, that wasn't the forest catching them at all. And good luck doing that to Muu who will be invisible.

[Shisko Shi]

Really? I am sure he would have. But Madara saw what was going to happen from his eyes and stoped them. In all it isn't speed but reflex that matters. They are not the same.

[Devils Lawyer]

Seeing as we never saw the fight and both Hashirama and Madara's fighting styles revolve around tanking attacks/ attacking at a distance, it says nothing about how fast Hashirama had to be. Bee is also much slower than A and he murked MS Sasuke in base.

Doesn't matter Harishima just has to murk the entire battlefield which he can. Also Bee is not slower than A. He has kept up with A and even got the drop on Minato. If A is faster it is not by buddy. Even then Bee becomes faster in his bijuu forms. If Bee was slower he would have been demolished during that double clothesline.


And you're reaching again. How the heck does activating Amaterasu have anything to do with reacting to your opponent? Amaterasu activation is (essentially) instantaneous. It has nothing to do with Sasuke's reactions. A didn't go for a straight blitz, he was moving around before he attacked and Sasuke was looking the wrong way and couldn't tell where A would attack from-Karin's statement makes this crystal clear. Your sharingan wanking is just too much.

Sasuke has to activate it first. He activated as soon as he lost sight of A. Again if A was truly massively faster he would have tagged Sasuke before amaterasu was activated. As a matter of he even dodged it before the activation so you are definetely wrong. That meant in that instant Sasuke sharigan was faster.


Apparently yes, me; since you just had to owe up to being wrong multiple times...man, you have some serious short term memory loss `:)


Actually the only time I conceded was on the 3 raikage so...

I haven't seen these FTL conversations in Superman, but I can bet you they involve some kind of telepathy. And last time I checked this manga was called Naruto and not Dragonball or Superman. If you can show me a panel when a Naruto character is talking during a blitz I will concede the point. I hope you realize how much you are trying to twist what happened on panel to fit your point.

How about stop making excuses conversation has almost nothing to do with the passage of time in combat. Every manga has such instances. Stopping being childish and admit you are wrong. Lol at superman using telepathy:lol:

My version (aka what happened): Naruto jumps at Madara preparing to attack while yelling at him. He doesn't have to drastically break any laws of physics or established rules made by the author to do this.


Yeah ok characters who have been known to break the sound barrier long before this point. Gets their speed retracted by a conversation. yeah just stop.:lol:
Your version: I don't even know how to put this mechanistically...Naruto blitzes with insane speed by jumping and falling towards Madara in an arc pattern while somehow communicating in full sentences with him over this same time frame. Defies physics and common sense for the sole purpose of supporting Devils Lawyer's argument in a fictional battle between Kage.

My version is it was a simple blitz. Deal with it. You are just trying to come up with absurd reasons to take away speed. Panels don't work like that. Like I said characters who are known to break the sound barrier are having conversations. That is your proof of physics. Yeah and you want to talk to me about physics. Yeah just stop.:lol:

Which seems more logical? When presented with two possible mechanisms the simpler one is correct in most cases-Occam's Razor-maybe you've heard of it?
No that is not the case. Especially when individuals can move faster than the speed of sounds and dodge explosions. No offense you sound like a dumb-ass using a conversation as proof of their speed. The simpler solution is the artist doesn't give a fluck about a conversation time frame. That is common sense.


So fighting against a few fodder for about 5 panels and not being tagged by them qualifies a character as being fast now? :roll:
No fighting the two fastest charactesr in the story qualifies as fast.

Yeah, because blocking an attack from someone who is yelling at you and essentially falling right into you makes you fast. :lol:

Yeah you keep spouting that dumbass bs.:lol:

Do you think Naruto and A move at full speed the entire time they are using their cloaks? I can give you over a hundred panels that say otherwise.
Never said they did they still move faster than the majority of the series. I can give a 100 panels that goes with that.



There are so many panels that say otherwise. Did you fall asleep for half of the panels Yamato is in and recently Guy yelling, "That damn tree is sucking up the Kyuubi's chakra!" while the Wood Dragon got larger and the Kurama chakra cloak disappated?
Did you notice the part it sucks chakra in general the wood not necessarily specified for a bijuu. Bijuu who was still ripping the wood to shreds. Kurama especially who has the power to rip apart object larger than mountains.




Absolutely no evidence for Oro's Edos being weaker than Kabuto's, just another case of you wanting to twist the story to support your argument. The only difference in Kabuto's is that he can give them more control of their actions and emotions.

Yeah what story have you been reading. The edos in general didn't have full control of their power nor was Oro as good Kabuto controlling them back then. Considering he just summoned them again I can bet the new edo will be way stronger. Considering you know there is a thing called plot progression.

And thank you for making another baseless assumption about my intelligence and familiarity with the story. Of course I know Kishi retconned Hashirama's strength, but it doesn't take away the fact that he was taken down with mid-tier feats by an Old Hiruzen. As I have repeatedly reminded you we debate primarily through feats in the BG's and until Hashirama can show this insane speed that you maintain I will continue to use what the author has actually shown us-which is Hiruzen going toe-to-toe with him in CQC. Just because Shukaku is now known to be a Bijuu and not some spirit from a pot doesn't mean that his feats against Naruto and Gamabunta are now invalidated.

Harishima has feats beyond Hiruzen. Madara is the mouthpiece you only have to listen. Every woodstyle he performs is Harishima's ability. The same thing goes for Yamato he clearly says his powers is a pale imitation of Harishima's. We know his jutsu and how strong the wood is considering it can bind a bijuu. He has alot of feats.


If the battle happened anything like what was shown in the manga vs. Naruto the Kyuubi would be immobilized quickly with Wood Dragon (Bijuu kryptonite) and sealed by Mito. Seeing as Hashirama has nothing that can counter a TBB it pretty much had to happen that way. So yeah, fail.


How about even without the TBB the kyuubi is physically stronger than anything shown in Naruto. ch 439 pg 13 this is a weak kyuubi. So who fails bro?




You mean after Madara surprised the Kages while they were having their little pow wow and knocking them down into the forest? Cuz Onoki dodged him creating the forest he just got surprise attacked by Madara's Susano'o. Yeah, that wasn't the forest catching them at all. And good luck doing that to Muu who will be invisible.
Yeah that is an excuse how. It is called a fight. He was suppose to give them a warning.:lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

Gk do you need backup or are you good?

[Kioroshi.]

doesn't muu solo?Particle Style is OP.

[BMC1994]

Oh lord ...the text walls.

[PrinceofPeace]

doesn't muu solo?Particle Style is OP.

ny thoughts exactly

[Maruko]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27757197.jpg

[Kioroshi.]

ny thoughts exactly



Nice to see we agree on something lol.



I think this is a stomp,muu goes in the air and reyp the entire battlefield with particle style.

[konoha chimp]

So can anyone actually think of a way to beat Particle style? I mean the 2nd Mizukage managed to kill Muu with his 'godly OP' particle style. I mean yeah he died himself in the process but that's not the point

[Kioroshi.]

^ that might have been made for the story to be more cool but with feats i don't see mizukage beating muu anyhow Muu is pretty much OP

Invinsibility,flying,particle style.

Hes very op indeed.

[Shisko Shi]

Camo and Tobirama can sense him by placing his fingur on the ground. Fun fact of the day. =)

[Kioroshi.]

^ whos camo.

And what if hes in the air?

[Shisko Shi]

Muu is Camo not invisable. Also if the air is dusty, pollion full, or on sand or dirst or water you can see were he is walking.

[Kioroshi.]

Its stated he cannot be sensed,and i think the finger was usefull cuz they were moving and not flying.


Also it doesn't change the fact that he can fly into the aur and disintegrate the entire battlefield.

[PrinceofPeace]

Muu is Camo not invisable.
you know he is called the "Invisible man" right. THere is not much of a difference between camo and invisible
Also if the air is dusty, pollion full, or on sand or dirst
how would polin, or dust, or sand, or dusty components be on the battlefiled or in the air. It is a crater where they are battling
or water you can see were he is walking.
thAT is why he would fly so you can not see that

FOR THE LAST TIME MUU CAN NOT BE SENSED

Do you think Tobirama is a better sensor than a whole sensory unit?!?!

[Sagepain]

Now I can finally vote on this thread.

Hashirama went Asura's Wrath on us. You all should know the answer.

[konoha chimp]

Oh god sagepain! what have you done!! the revival of this thread means only one thing!! :lol:
*Awaits princes response*

[BMC1994]

So we all agree Hashirama pretty much solos now?

Edit:
Closing

[Maruko]

^Wanted to say that.