Shino vs Konan

[Sagepain]

Location: Where Sasuke and Itachi fought Kabuto.
Start Distance: 30M
Restrictions: No Moses no jutsu :|

Lets also assume Shino can use every aburame clan technique shown thus far regardless of who used it and the source it came from.

[Souret]

Konan

I may be wrong but I believe we saw Konan against Shibi and his techniques had no effect.

[Sagepain]

What exactly did he do?

I'm pretty sure that Konan is still supceptible to chakra drainage even when in her paper logia form :p

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

i say Shino, cause his bugs eat anything that has chakra

[Souret]

I believe she blocked the beatles with a layer of paper before effectively mummifying (can't spell sorry) them.

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

^she can do that but then the bugs will have probably be already inside, some of them are small enough to fit in those paper creases or spaces

[Sagepain]

I believe she blocked the beatles with a layer of paper before effectively mummifying (can't spell sorry) them.

Hmm, don't seem to remember that in the manga. Could you provide a chapter and page number where I could see that?

I remember something between the Aburame and Konan happening in the anime but that had something to do with her defending herself against paper bombs which she can't do canonically.

What can she do when the chakra in her explosive paper is drained and nullified?

[Nigoyukai]

Yeah, I remember that the Aburame Clan couldn't take down Konan for some reason while Nagato was invading Konoha.
Though the bugs will drain the chakra, chances are that it'll explode and destroy masses of them. The Aburames have a limited supply of dem bugs. So long as Konan keeps her distance, she can take on Shino.
Plus she's a vastly superior fighter in the first place.

[Sagepain]

Yeah, I remember that the Aburame Clan couldn't take down Konan for some reason while Nagato was invading Konoha.

Though the bugs will drain the chakra, chances are that it'll explode and destroy masses of them. The Aburames have a limited supply of dem bugs. So long as Konan keeps her distance, she can take on Shino.

Plus she's a vastly superior fighter in the first place.
The bugs drain opponents fairly quicky seen when he drained Kankuro when he was just a genin, and with much less insects since he had no gourd.

Paper bombs would contain much less chakra within them and would be drained near instantly. If not then then the explosive power of the bombs would be severely diminished, with some of Shino's bugs most likely surviving.

Once that happens it becomes much easier for Shino to swarm her with insects.

[Souret]

I watched the anime at that point which is why I wasn't sure.

However any poison techniques would be inaffective since she can brake herself down into paper. Her chakra reserve is huge as we saw in her fight against Tobi in which she set off millions of paper bombs. I know you banned that Jutsu but I was just showwing how much chakra she has. Therefore she can use fack paper bombs as both a distraction and protection for real paper bombs. Also if she fired paper shureken they would easily go past the insects rely on Shino's skills to dodge them which is faced with enough he would be unable to do.

Edit: it was episode 162

[Sagepain]

I watched the anime at that point which is why I wasn't sure.

However any poison techniques would be inaffective since she can brake herself down into paper. Her chakra reserve is huge as we saw in her fight against Tobi in which she set off millions of paper bombs. I know you banned that Jutsu but I was just showwing how much chakra she has. Therefore she can use fack paper bombs as both a distraction and protection for real paper bombs. Also if she fired paper shureken they would easily go past the insects rely on Shino's skills to dodge them which is faced with enough he would be unable to do.
Slowly but surely Shino's insects would start to take effect on her, keep in mind Shino can use his bug clone to trick her as well and then swarm her completely when she least expects it considering she didin't detect Tobi in the slightest until after he began speaking.

Yeah episode 162 was non canon for Konan iirc.

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

paper bomb don't really require that much chakra though...plus that jutsu was a last resort cause of the state she was in

[Souret]

Which point was that'? at the bigining of the fight she had been expecting him. For the rest of the fight the next time he caught her by suprise she was of guard presuming he was dead.

[Sagepain]

Which point was that'? at the bigining of the fight she had been expecting him. For the rest of the fight the next time he caught her by suprise she was of guard presuming he was dead.

Exactly, which is exactly what would happen in this scenario with Shino acting like he was defeated.

[PrinceofPeace]

Shino stomp!!

Its in a cave so it would be hard to see and te bugs will easily sense konan.
Plus konan using paperbombs is kinda dangerous in there small area.

Nobody has successful gotten away from the bugs besides OP people like obito

There is barely space to fly in the cave as well

Is this anime bug feats as well

[Souret]

Except when fighting Tobi her logic was perfect and she had the fight planned out with Shino she would have less of a plan and therefore be a lot mor careful.

In this situation she doesn't need to fly.

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

but if she planned it so well why did she end up dieing then....

[Souret]

Because Tobi had the jutsu that Danzo used if he hadn't had that Tobi would be dead and Konan would be alive

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

AKA the Izangai...that would matter, she still died by getting a pipe stabbed through her side, plus Tobi also payed a price, and that was losing one of his arms again

[Souret]

Still back to Shino if she took him down with paper shuriken not bombs I believe you could tell it was a clones. Also right back at Shino Konan can use clones alwell made out of the same paper her body turns to.

[WishfulFairie]

Lets also assume Shino can use every aburame clan technique shown thus far regardless of who used it and the source it came from.

Does this include Torune's purple insect venom disease? Because if Shino managed to touch her...
I'm sure a few of his insects (as stated earlier) can sneak up on her..absorb chakra..wear her out..then a swarm gets her and if she can't move...shino touches her...she slowly dies...

[Souret]

Would a poison really kill her when she is in paper form it hasn't entered her blood stream or touched her skin it would not travel through her since she can dispose of that bit of the paper.

[CoolerThanIce]

Konan's paper sheets are infused with chakra so Shino could just use the sphere technique and make his bugs start eating away at Konan's chakra.

Is Konan only able to use the Paper God Technique if there's a lake nearby? Cuz those sixhundred explosive tags would be a problem. Shino could use the Insect Jar Technique but the problem is that it can be disrupted by sufficient explosive force. Either way they're in a cave so unless Konan would want to get buried alive she would have to be cautious. Shino is more strategic too, so that gives him another advantage.

[Souret]

The water is not needed but that jutsu is banned in this fight. Although she could still use that mass of paper bombs.

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

but some types of the bugs are sensory type and can detect where the real castor is

[Souret]

Her clones are made of the same material she is they are barely clones more like split offs through weird paper meosis. Not even sensory bugs can do that.

[NINE-TAILS-BIJU]

yes thay can we don't even know that yet, so it's better if he tries than not trying yet

[Souret]

How if the scent genetics and chakra is the same how do they tell which is real

[Nigoyukai]

The bugs drain opponents fairly quicky seen when he drained Kankuro when he was just a genin, and with much less insects since he had no gourd.

Paper bombs would contain much less chakra within them and would be drained near instantly. If not then then the explosive power of the bombs would be severely diminished, with some of Shino's bugs most likely surviving.

Once that happens it becomes much easier for Shino to swarm her with insects.

Then she ignites them before the bugs touches them.

[Sagepain]

Then she ignites them before the bugs touches them.
Right and she'd do that not knowing what the bugs are capable of instead of try to get rid of the controller of the insects?

@Wishful: Yes.

[Souret]

I'd say you'd get the hint pretty quickly after your bombs keep going dead and start setting them off early

[Sagepain]

I'd say you'd get the hint pretty quickly after your bombs keep going dead and start setting them off early

Most likely, but by then She gets swarmed before she lets loose a second round of paper bombs.

[Souret]

Constant stream of paper bombs would avoid that problem

[Sagepain]

Constant stream of paper bombs would avoid that problem

Again, every single paper bomb she uses will be drained completely before exploding if its included in the initial attack. She gets swarmed when she prepares her second set of bombs.

Prove that she can actually use a steady stream of paper bombs without making the location they are fighting in cave in.

[WishfulFairie]

Souret...the insects can just keep making babies and evolving during the fight. It's not like Shino's gonna run out. Plus, if the insects don't get her, she will eventually be exhausted from wasting too much chakra

[Souret]

I cna't be bothered to look through the manga so scrap constant stream.

If her initial wave of bombs was in a wave say five thick when she notices the first row of the wave has failled she could set of the rest of the wave early, no longer needs the time to prepare another batch. She can also back the bombs up by sending paper shuriken both before and ofter them, she can do all of that with a paper clone while the reall her hides within the cave using the jutsu where she splits completely diverting Shino's attention giving the real her a chance ot move behind while his attention is on the clone, also meaning the bugs aren't targetting all of the paper reserving some of her chakra.

[Malacath]

Again, every single paper bomb she uses will be drained completely before exploding if its included in the initial attack. She gets swarmed when she prepares her second set of bombs.

Prove that she can actually use a steady stream of paper bombs without making the location they are fighting in cave in.

Couldn't agree more

[SenjuUchiha]

Shino would definetly win that fight, if all of his bugs were somehow destroyed however, then the victor would obviously be Konan

[PrinceofPeace]

Konan is at a HUGE distadvantage

the cave makes it harder to see and Shino is a sensor. The cave would make the bugs even harder to find and fight. Also useing explosives in a small cramped area is not the best idea.

Shino spams bugs faster than Konan spams bugs

[BMC1994]

Souret...the insects can just keep making babies and evolving during the fight. It's not like Shino's gonna run out. Plus, if the insects don't get her, she will eventually be exhausted from wasting too much chakra

That was filler. Even if its an innate ability of insects it does not take away the time that it requires for an entire immune colonie to be born.(as the bugs will need to go through multiple generations and such). And even with that shinos bugs are not infinite. The numbers left will be so small that the bugs will become insignificant.

Then again its pratically impossible to be genetically immune to explosions or fire. Unless your a bacteria.

I also dont see how the bugs would 'instantly drain any and all paper bombs that konan throws at them. Not to mention the paper bombs could just detonate before the bugs are able to touch them but still close enough to catch in the explosion. Is there any proof of the draining being so 'instant'?

Also forgetting the bugs that konan could simply throw a 2 bombs. One towards shino and the other one toward his bugs. Either he or his bugs take some serious damage.

[PrinceofPeace]

But it would be hard for Konan to find and react to the countless bugs.
it is not IC for Konan to spam bugs anyway
Plus using paperbombs in a cave is not the best idea when everything can come crumbling down

when shino's bugs were leached onto Tobi the bugs instantly starting draining chakra

[BMC1994]

Not fast enough as tobi was still being drained for 1-2 secs before he phased and he seemed fine.

So konan can throw a papaer bombs towards shino casuing the ceiling to crush him :lol:

A cave with no other life in it except for shino and bugs. And the zooming noice of bugs make. Really doesnt sound like they are hard to find at all. Besides if a mass of chakra draining bugs would approach me i would throw any bobms available at them.

[Sagepain]

Not fast enough as tobi was still being drained for 1-2 secs before he phased and he seemed fine.

So konan can throw a papaer bombs towards shino casuing the ceiling to crush him

A cave with no other life in it except for shino and bugs. And the zooming noice of bugs make. Really doesnt sound like they are hard to find at all. Besides if a mass of chakra draining bugs would approach me i would throw any bobms available at them.
Shino drained Kankuro in less then minutes. Konans paper bombs are definitely not infused with even a tenth of Konans chakra seeing as they don't make huge explosions. Its obvious that they would be drained before Konan even sets them off, leaving her open to attack while she prepares her second round of paper bombs.

Also keep in mind that paper bombs don't even do much damage as Sakura tanked one at point blank range and Tobi took easily over 10 before finally using Izanagi. The only time we've seen massive amounts of damage from them was when Tobi got hit by the bundled bombs when he tried to suck konan into his face iirc.

In the anime, Shino's bugs became immune to Gurens Crystals in less then what seemed to be a day. If Shino's bugs can evolve to the point where crystalizations doesin't affect them in the slightest then I don't see it hard to believe that they could do the same to fire. Now explosions I'm not sure :lol:

[PrinceofPeace]

Not fast enough as tobi was still being drained for 1-2 secs before he phased and he seemed fine.
but once she is caught its over. More bugs will pile on and using explosives would hurt herself

So konan can throw a papaer bombs towards shino casuing the ceiling to crush him :lol:
-if she can find him
-if the ceiling will fall
-Shino can move while sending the bugs

A cave with no other life in it except for shino and bugs. And the zooming noice of bugs make. Really doesnt sound like they are hard to find at all.
Kankuro had a hard time even with the noise.
Besides if a mass of chakra draining bugs would approach me i would throw any bobms available at them.

if you could react in time and find them
But overall that is YOU not KONAN so it is OOC

[WishfulFairie]

I thought Shino's bugs were quiet....guess I was wrong v.v

Also Shino doesn't have to send a swarm after her. Just send a few at a time and if noise happens he can send more >.>

[CoolerThanIce]

The location and the fact that she can't use The Paper God Technique are both huge disadvantages for Konan.

Paper bombs in a cave? Are you serious people? If he goes down she goes down with him. Flying is not gonna help much if those bugs have had time to crawl up on her.

Even if a bunch of bugs do get blasted Shino creates more and more. Konan can't throw as many paper bombs as she likes since the Paper God Technique is excluded.

When it all comes down to it, it's about who can produce the most.

[BMC1994]

Shino drained Kankuro in less then minutes. Konans paper bombs are definitely not infused with even a tenth of Konans chakra seeing as they don't make huge explosions. Its obvious that they would be drained before Konan even sets them off, leaving her open to attack while she prepares her second round of paper bombs.

Also keep in mind that paper bombs don't even do much damage as Sakura tanked one at point blank range and Tobi took easily over 10 before finally using Izanagi. The only time we've seen massive amounts of damage from them was when Tobi got hit by the bundled bombs when he tried to suck konan into his face iirc.

In the anime, Shino's bugs became immune to Gurens Crystals in less then what seemed to be a day. If Shino's bugs can evolve to the point where crystalizations doesin't affect them in the slightest then I don't see it hard to believe that they could do the same to fire. Now explosions I'm not sure :lol:

Nice they drained a pts genin/unexperienced kankuro in minutes. How does that compare again to the chakra pool of an S-class criminalwho actually gave tobi some trouble.

Konan can make them explode before the bugs can touch them hence them not being drained.

And konan couldnt use bundled bombs against tobi and set them off before the bugs touch them.

Thats the anime canon feats only unless specified. Besides it took days in the anime. Thats not viable for battle at all.

if you could react in time and find them
But overall that is YOU not KONAN so it is OOC
dafuq, you are not shino either so everything you say he does is out of character? I dont get the logic used here.

I thought Shino's bugs were quiet....guess I was wrong v.v

Also Shino doesn't have to send a swarm after her. Just send a few at a time and if noise happens he can send more >.>

In the manga they have an sfx so they do make sound.
They are not that far away from each other infact 30 meters means they should atleast be in eachothers eye side. Considreing the cave didnt have branches when itachi fought its just a straight path to shino so finding him wont be hard anyway.

Shino has always used 'swarms' to attack. Never just a few its kinda ooc. And a few bugs still make sound.

The location and the fact that she can't use The Paper God Technique are both huge disadvantages for Konan.
Paper bombs in a cave? Are you serious people? If he goes down she goes down with him. Flying is not gonna help much if those bugs have had time to crawl up on her.

Even if a bunch of bugs do get blasted Shino creates more and more. Konan can't throw as many paper bombs as she likes since the Paper God Technique is excluded. When it all comes down to it, it's about who can produce the most.

Konana is a paper logia i am sure she could transform into those paper butterflies and fly through the debris.

Who says so not the entire cave has to collapse. Since when could he create more bugs other then the anime(non-canon) in which still took days to do.

[WishfulFairie]

Well the bugs don't have to fly. They can just crawl onto her paper/clothes

[Sagepain]

Nice they drained a pts genin/unexperienced kankuro in minutes. How does that compare again to the chakra pool of an S-class criminalwho actually gave tobi some trouble.

Konan can make them explode before the bugs can touch them hence them not being drained.

And konan couldnt use bundled bombs against tobi and set them off before the bugs touch them.

Thats the anime canon feats only unless specified. Besides it took days in the anime. Thats not viable for battle at all.
That argument wasin't to prove he could drain Konan near instantly, it was for the bombs but I wouldin't put it past his capabilities to drain Konan fairly quickly considering Tobi felt the need to get away from the insects when was swarmed by them.

Again, assuming she knows what Shino's bugs are capable of, why would she detonate them when her target is Shino.......who she can't even see clearly due to the cave they are in. Same for the insects.

I don't quite understand the third argument you brought up......

I wasin't actually using that for this debate since its not an actual Technique/Jutsu. Just wanted to give my input on the idea. Its clearly unusable in a match like this though.

[Souret]

Are we allowed to use things only shown in the anime?

[Sagepain]

Are we allowed to use things only shown in the anime?
Only Jutsu/Techniques that belong to other Aburame clan members or Shino himself but was only used in the anime. So the feats go with the techniques in question but speed, or reaction feats etc.. don't count.

[Souret]

I meant for Konan when she dispells the swarm in the anime but I'm guessing I can't use that then.

[PrinceofPeace]

When you think about it the bugs can do whatever in anime or manga

Shino can send his bugs to make a dome even though it was never shown in the manga. Shino has the ability to do so .

But SHino could not make bugs inside his body since that is something that shino did himself.

Does anyone get what I mean??

It's like Naruto using his clones in a different way in the anime... but he could use those those clones in any battle

but I guess that would be OOC huh???

[BMC1994]

That argument wasin't to prove he could drain Konan near instantly, it was for the bombs but I wouldin't put it past his capabilities to drain Konan fairly quickly considering Tobi felt the need to get away from the insects when was swarmed by them.

Again, assuming she knows what Shino's bugs are capable of, why would she detonate them when her target is Shino.......who she can't even see clearly due to the cave they are in. Same for the insects.

I don't quite understand the third argument you brought up......

I wasin't actually using that for this debate since its not an actual Technique/Jutsu. Just wanted to give my input on the idea. Its clearly unusable in a match like this though.

Tobi feels the need to phase through anything id call it a habit he even phased through a kunai.

If bugs would come out of a persons body and fly towards there is something wrong. Hence the bugs need to be dealt. with = Splosions. Zaku was smart enough to figure it out.

Using the bundled bombs she did against tobi but only then agianst the bugs and detonating them before the bugs come in 'draining' range.

[PrinceofPeace]

idk anymore !!!!!!

Paperbombs are not very effective. And i doubt they the bombs would be dangerous in a cave considering how weak the bombs are.

It is pretty much OOC for Konan to spam bombs

Chakram puts shino in danger but Shino is quiet enough to hide in the dark cave plus while she focuses on the chakram that leaves her open for attack

papershuriken are dodgeable or can just hid behind rocks and its hard to find shino

paper clones=bug clones

Her paper dance is the only thing that is troublesome

I still say Shino wins but BMC puts up an argument

[Obito]

Konan could of killed Tobi, he got lucky by using Izanagi, without it, he'd die. Konan probably would kill Shino.

[PrinceofPeace]

that is SOOOO different. Konan killed tobi with WEEKS prep
almost anyone can kill anyone with that much prep

[Obito]

So you're saying Shino could kill Tobi with weeks of preparation? Konan obviously didn't so your logic fails `:P

[PrinceofPeace]

technicly Konan did kill Tobi... Tobi just had 2 lives and konan took away one

[Obito]

Do you even know what Izanagi is?

[PrinceofPeace]

yes... plus I did say almost

[Obito]

Implying "almost" means mostly all? Right? What mostly all type of people can kill Tobi with weeks of preparation?

[PrinceofPeace]

I will PM/VM it to you since this is Off-topic

[Souret]

As it stands she is the only character to fight that well against Tobi weeks of prep or not it proves she's strong Shino is good but I can't see him being able to do that.

[BMC1994]

Actually konan did kill him but izanagi allows him to cheat death. currently konan with prep > most of the naruto verse except edos and juubi.

[Souret]

I thought Konan does have a sealing jutsu so really anything but Jubi

[PrinceofPeace]

Actually konan did kill him but izanagi allows him to cheat death. currently konan with prep > most of the naruto verse except edos and juubi.

TOLD YOU SO OBITO !!! IN YOUR FACDE :p

What sealing jutsu Souret??

[Souret]

Beginning of 422 she is covering a shinobi in paper I thought it was a seal but it might not have been.

[PrinceofPeace]

Naw it was not she was just binding him with papers and suffocating him. Lol now that it I think about it what she did is kinda like a sealing jutsu but it was not.... it was like binding the enemy with rope get it??

[Souret]

Oh well it looked a bit like a sealling

[Sagepain]

Honestly it probably works just as well even if its not a sealing jutsu.

As long as the edo in question doesin't have bodily abilities like The Third Raikage or The Second Mizukage.

[PrinceofPeace]

OFF TOPIC

well its like garra's sand can hold down and enemy but its not a sealing jutsu


Is paperbombs all Konan has to win?? Everything else is not that strong and paperbombs are not that strong

[Snow Eyes X]

Konan because her paper jutsus are far more faster than Shino's bug jutsus. Plus, with such speed and intensity from her paper jutsu attacks, they could easily and tear through those bugs with ease. Only, thing is, Shino's jutsus are very clever and unpredictable so it is possible for Shino to win.

[PrinceofPeace]

OOC for Konan to spam paper bombs??

[Souret]

response to your off topic
Yeah but he kinda needs to sustain the sand with chakra I think the paper acts like mummyfying the apponant

Really cause I'd say her fight with tobi involved the spamming of paper bombs in a way.

[PrinceofPeace]

but that was when she had prep and her oppoennt was a threat. SHe did not do that when she fought the Abruame Clan

[Souret]

By saying "when her oponent was a threat" you are basically saying you don't see Shino as a threat.
Your also saying the Aburame clann were not a threat to her.

[Maruko]

^It isn't. She's far more superior.
She proved it during Pein's invasion.

[Souret]

I'm supporting Konan all the way anyway :P

[PrinceofPeace]

By saying "when her oponent was a threat" you are basically saying you don't see Shino as a threat.
Your also saying the Aburame clann were not a threat to her.

sO YOUR GOING TO support your fav character and be a fan girl?

Anyway you are simply twisting my words around and putting words in my mouth

Tobi was MORE of a threat and you know it. He is a member of the akasuki and is mysterious. Konan had more knowledge on him. Afterall Konan thought he was the great madara. The name alone puts fear in the hearts of opponents. Plus she had the sharigan and Uchiha blood.

Shino however lacks feats and hype. He IS A THREAT!!! But not as much as Tobi.

[Souret]

Yeah he is more of a threat and Konan nearly beet him.
I'm not going fan girl I know she is stronger that Shino. I've already been argueing it for pages.
Konan may be my favorit character but that isn't my reason for supporting her here.
He is a threat yes but in comparison to Tobi who she Nearly BEAT Sino is lacking in skills.

[PrinceofPeace]

Shino has tons of skill to get Tobi, Kankuro, and Zaku with his bugs

[Souret]

Both Kankuro and Zaku were gennin that is not really a missive achievement.
Well hi didn't have all that much of an affect on Tobi (and yes I know Tobi warped away or what ever) But you unless you can tell me exactly how much of tobi's chakra those bugs were able to absorb your not convincing me with that one.

And Konan faced the Aburame clan in the pain arc and came out uninjured. Shino as a single member of the clan is obviously a far smaller threat than that.
Also I'm pretty sure we are just repeating things that have already been said.

[PrinceofPeace]

Then we must discuss stratgy