Father (FMA) vs Tsunade

[Bradley]

Let's assume Father's plan worked and he gained the power of God without a hitch. Tsunade shows up to try to bring him down.

Discuss.

[BMC1994]

What with all the tsunade stomp threads lately?

Father bisects tsunade until she has no more chakra to regenarate.

[Nigoyukai]

You can throw in the other Kages she's with and they still wouldn't stand a chance.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

... Bradley, could you please stop making Fullmetal Alchemist stomp threads? This is starting to get quite irritating, actually.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

... Bradley, could you please stop making Fullmetal Alchemist stomp threads? This is starting to get quite irritating, actually.

he already broke a bunch of rules so if you wanna act on it in an official capacity be my guest

[Bradley]

... Bradley, could you please stop making Fullmetal Alchemist stomp threads? This is starting to get quite irritating, actually.

I hope you're not confusing me with threads I haven't made. I didn't make the Korra vs Mustang thread, IWD did.

Anyways, if this is too much of a stomp, what if this is godFather with the souls removed by the Ishvalan alkahestry circle?

[Devils Lawyer]

Anything aside from the shadow form that touched the moon catches a beating of a lifetime. Tsunade is still a superhuman with enough speed to cross several regions in a day. God form father wasn't even a god.

[Vatanui AKA Pride]

.. Took you long enough to get back into trolling DL. :lol:

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Anything aside from the shadow form that touched the moon catches a beating of a lifetime. Tsunade is still a superhuman with enough speed to cross several regions in a day. God form father wasn't even a god.

didn't he have whacky gravity shields or something like that?

and yeah she can beat him up as much as she wants can she stop herself from turned into a chair?

[Devils Lawyer]

I aint trolling just stating facts prove otherwise. Though seriously tsunade blitzes anything in fma. Naruto alas is a strong low tier verse.

[Devils Lawyer]

didn't he have whacky gravity shields or something like that?

and yeah she can beat him up as much as she wants can she stop herself from turned into a chair?

He created a sun that is suspect considering everybody didn't die instantly when he did it. Actually yes she just touches him and messes up his body signals. How do people forget one of her feats. She only has like five.

If I was really trolling I would bring up the fact she survived moving at lightspeed. But I won't be doing that nope.:lol:

[Devils Lawyer]

Father us not immortal all you have to do is disable him and use up the philosopher's stone. Hence him getting beaten to death. Speed gap is too wide.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Father may not be immortal, but he had a shield that had to be massively worn down by hundreds upon hundreds of bullets, attacks from alchemists like Major Armstrong and Colonel Mustang, a few punches from Greed and I don't know how many other attacks. Tsunade has no chance of getting through that shield to have even a chance of damaging Father, let alone kill him even once. He can basically break down a body without even touching someone, his alchemy is that strong.

[Devils Lawyer]

Father may not be immortal, but he had a shield that had to be massively worn down by hundreds upon hundreds of bullets, attacks from alchemists like Major Armstrong and Colonel Mustang, a few punches from Greed and I don't know how many other attacks. Tsunade has no chance of getting through that shield to have even a chance of damaging Father, let alone kill him even once. He can basically break down a body without even touching someone, his alchemy is that strong.

Tsunade strength is a few times more powerful than their combined attacks. She picked up a sword as tall as Gamabunta. Which is solid steel. That is thousands of tons. Nothing in fma outputs that type if power. So yeah her attack would shatter father's shield. Also as far as breaking her body down he would have to do that he would have to react to a level of speed his verse can't even comprehend. She moves he loses track of her entirely. That is how huge the gap in speed is between the verses. It is comparable to the gap in speed between db and Narutoverse.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Ok, that's good enough to convince me. xD So Tsunade wins a fight for once...seems legit.

[Edward Newgate]

Tsunade strength is a few times more powerful than their combined attacks. She picked up a sword as tall as Gamabunta. Which is solid steel. That is thousands of tons. Nothing in fma outputs that type if power. So yeah her attack would shatter father's shield. Also as far as breaking her body down he would have to do that he would have to react to a level of speed his verse can't even comprehend. She moves he loses track of her entirely. That is how huge the gap in speed is between the verses. It is comparable to the gap in speed between db and Narutoverse.
Strength has nothing to do with it. His barriers stops anything trying to get through.

Nothing comes through as long as he has souls inside of him to use. Unfortunately for Tsunade, she's a CCQ fighter, so the first time she manages to hit him will be the last. Because he won't let her hit him another time, the moment she gets near him her body gets destroyed.

[Devils Lawyer]

Strength has nothing to do with it. His barriers stops anything trying to get through.

Nothing comes through as long as he has souls inside of him to use. Unfortunately for Tsunade, she's a CCQ fighter, so the first time she manages to hit him will be the last. Because he won't let her hit him another time, the moment she gets near him her body gets destroyed.

No the barrier won't be holding up. His energy ran down relatively quick from the assault on it in the manga. One blow from Tsunade would run it down completely.

Father has no attack that can instantly annihilate someone with Tsunade speed. He would still be processing the thought of his shield be destroyed. The speed gap is that huge if not way faster. All she has to do is touch him to paralyze making him a paraplegic. After that she just experiments on him til he dies.

[Bradley]

Doesn't Father's "shield" use alchemy to disintegrate anything that tries going through it? That could be very bad for Tsunade.

[Devils Lawyer]

Been there already done that she recovered from moving at lightspeed.:lol:

[Bradley]

And the evidence for this is?

[Devils Lawyer]

562 pg 7 read on from there

[Bradley]

562 pg 7 read on from there

So..they use a teleportation technique that works on solid objects just fine, but is dangerous for living beings. Just what kind of stress this puts people under is undefined. I'm not seeing "recovered from moving at lightspeed".

[Devils Lawyer]

You don't have to the technique is proven to move at lightspeed. The effects of a human being moving at that type of speed was described to certain degree. All you need to know is she survived moving at lightspeed thanks to a regen. Survive moving at lightspeed>>>>fathers technique. If you disagree disprove it.

[Bradley]

You don't have to the technique is proven to move at lightspeed. The effects of a human being moving at that type of speed was described to certain degree. All you need to know us she survived moving at lightspeed thanks to a regen. Survive moving at lightspeed>>>>fathers technique. If you disagree disprove it.

"Proven to move at lightspeed"? How? What quote proves this? I read the chapter that you suggested and it seemed like a stressful technique of teleportation, which is not the same as moving at lightspeed. Unless everyone in Star Trek is as durable as the Third Raikage now.

[Devils Lawyer]

"Proven to move at lightspeed"? How? What quote proves this? I read the chapter that you suggested and it seemed like a stressful technique of teleportation, which is not the same as moving at lightspeed. Unless everyone in Star Trek is as durable as the Third Raikage now.

Ch 529 page 7 There is a difference between star trek and Naruto. Star Trek uses technology meant for humans. Mabui is a technique that offers little if no protection against the speed. Hence them using inanimate objects.

Though realistically the objects would be destroyed if this was real life. But alas this is not real life.:lol:

[Bradley]

Ch 529 page 7 There is a difference between star trek and Naruto. Star Trek uses technology meant for humans. Mabui is a technique that offers little if no protection against the speed. Hence them using inanimate objects.

Though realistically the objects would be destroyed if this was real life. But alas this is not real life.:lol:

You just undid your own argument. Inanimate objects would be destroyed if this was simply moving things at the speed of light. This indicates that the transfer does not actually subject the objects to the full stress of moving at the speed of light; it simply strains people to a large but undefined degree.

[Devils Lawyer]

You just undid your own argument. Inanimate objects would be destroyed if this was simply moving things at the speed of light. This indicates that the transfer does not actually subject the objects to the full stress of moving at the speed of light; it simply strains people to a large but undefined degree.

Actually no I didnt. Learn to read what I said was if this was real life that would be what happens. But its not its fiction. Hence how human beings can teleport in the first place. The majority of the effects exist so the feat stand. Further more right now her body is smashed in half and she is still alive more proof.

Anyways there is nothing to debate lightspeed teleportation yes or no.

[JLI2infinity]

I agree with Devil's Lawyer here. Tsunade is a shinobi after all, she fights ridiculously fast masters of combat. Even as a genin Naruto showed agility, balance, and speed that would place him in the upper tier of the FMAverse in hand to hand combat alone. Yet she roflstomped him with one finger while tipsy. Her punch took down a castle wall, that's the explosive force of several missiles. And as DL pointed out before, her lifting that giant blade is a strength feat far above the FMAverse. Before her nervous breakdown Tsunade blitzed Kabuto who Orochimaru confidently stated was Kakashi level at the time.

[Bradley]

Actually no I didnt. Learn to read what I said was if this was real life that would be what happens. But its not its fiction. Hence how human beings can teleport in the first place. The majority of the effects exist so the feat stand. Further more right now her body is smashed in half and she is still alive more proof.

Anyways there is nothing to debate lightspeed teleportation yes or no.

Alright, let's get to the bottom of what you are implying here. The fact is that inanimate objects can be transported by the technique "at lightspeed" just fine. You are claiming there is no sort of protection of the object going on -- this is a necessary premise for the conclusion that Tsunade can survive moving at the speed of light. If that premise is true, that means either one of two things:

A. Every inanimate object in Naruto can survive being moved at the speed of light.

B. The speed of light in Naruto is not as fast as the speed of light in the real world, therefore inanimate objects do not need to be durable enough to survive being moved at the real-world speed of light in order to survive being moved at the Narutoverse speed of light.

This is, of course, assuming that the "speed of light" description of the technique is correct.

Option B is ridiculous. It requires throwing out the real-world laws of physics when talking about Naruto, thus giving us no common base to discuss fights between Naruto characters and characters from other fictions. Also if it is true, the "speed of light" in the Narutoverse becomes unquantified and meaningless, so Tsunade surviving the technique no longer leads to the conclusion that she can survive being moved at the real-world speed of light.

Option A also seems ridiculous. We have numerous instances of punches, ninjutsu attacks, etc. destroying solid objects. Unless all those attacks suddenly have the same force as being hit at lightspeed, not all objects in the Narutoverse can survive being moved at the speed of light.

Neither of consequences of the transport technique not protecting the transported object to some extent are true. Therefore, the transport technique must be protecting the transported objects to some extent, and it is not evidence of Tsunade being able to outright survive being moved at the speed of light.

[Devils Lawyer]

Alright, let's get to the bottom of what you are implying here. The fact is that inanimate objects can be transported by the technique "at lightspeed" just fine. You are claiming there is no sort of protection of the object going on -- this is a necessary premise for the conclusion that Tsunade can survive moving at the speed of light. If that premise is true, that means either one of two things:

A. Every inanimate object in Naruto can survive being moved at the speed of light.

B. The speed of light in Naruto is not as fast as the speed of light in the real world, therefore inanimate objects do not need to be durable enough to survive being moved at the real-world speed of light in order to survive being moved at the Narutoverse speed of light.

This is, of course, assuming that the "speed of light" description of the technique is correct.

Option B is ridiculous. It requires throwing out the real-world laws of physics when talking about Naruto, thus giving us no common base to discuss fights between Naruto characters and characters from other fictions. Also if it is true, the "speed of light" in the Narutoverse becomes unquantified and meaningless, so Tsunade surviving the technique no longer leads to the conclusion that she can survive being moved at the real-world speed of light.

Option A also seems ridiculous. We have numerous instances of punches, ninjutsu attacks, etc. destroying solid objects. Unless all those attacks suddenly have the same force as being hit at lightspeed, not all objects in the Narutoverse can survive being moved at the speed of light.

Neither of consequences of the transport technique not protecting the transported object to some extent are true. Therefore, the transport technique must be protecting the transported objects to some extent, and it is not evidence of Tsunade being able to outright survive being moved at the speed of light.

Nope no protection considering individuals die when they use it. The raikages have shields the only individuals to survive be okay. The mechanics of the technique is laid out. The only option you have is negate the lightspeed claim. Their is little to any feats that 100% correlate in to real world principles. If you know any please post. Otherwise the end.

[Bradley]

You're right, the end, because you provided nothing contradicting my logic.

[Devils Lawyer]

You're right, the end, because you provided nothing contradicting my logic.

Your so called logic fails. The technique was designed for inanimate objects. Any protection would be meant with that thought in mind. The technique wasn't meant for human beings hence individuals dying. So if you are going to continue to say she had added protection
outside of her regeneration post Ch and pg please.

[Cult of Personality]

If she were going to add protection she wouldn't need regeneration to begin with. But she did need regen. Ergo, no protection was present. :ugeek:

[Bradley]

If she were going to add protection she wouldn't need regeneration to begin with. But she did need regen. Ergo, no protection was present. :ugeek:

Or there was protection present and it wasn't sufficient.

[Devils Lawyer]

Ch and pg of said protection.

[Shikamaru Nara]

You're right, the end, because you provided nothing contradicting my logic.

You lost right here. :lol: Because neither did you.

You still have yet to disprove his post, other than saying that he's wrong in this post, which isn't debunking what he said at all. (In this post, that is.)

[Bradley]

He had no logic. He basically just said "the mechanics of the technique is laid out". He did nothing to contradict the claim that there has to be some sort of protection if inanimate objects can make it through just fine. He either needs to prove options A or B as I laid them out, or he needs to provide an logical option C (and prove it) as a reason that inanimate objects can make it through while organic objects can't.

[Devils Lawyer]

So still no chapter and pg I see. But I never expected any. You lost your own arguement the minute you made a claim with no evidence. You say that the technique provides protection back your statement up. Otherwise all theory no substance in other words fan fiction.

[Frost ninja]

Simply put, the process is simple.

Item is placed.
Item is then moved at lightspeed.
Object then is stopped and appears.

Think of it like IT from DBZ. You basically convert the matter to chakra, and reform it at the location. This would be an easy solution to the idea that it can support inanimate objects moving at light speed, since the chakra isn't in a physical form and it can be manipulated easily being theres only one force working on it at any given time. The items have no chakra of their own, so you just break it down and reform it using your own chakra, fire it off, and turn it back into its original form. They summon clones and frogs off of just chakra, so its not completely out of the question that they can do the same to jars and messages.

Humans, on the other hand, have their own chakra so they can't exactly be broken down and reformed as openly. Doing so would almost always result in a dead ninja, since you would have to reconstruct them on a subatomic level and they would lose all physicality in the process. The only way for them to be transported is as a whole mass, and being shot at light speed as a human is means enough to be destroyed completely. Tsunade's regen is more than enough to prevent it, appearently.

So yeah, no protection.

[Bazk]

well a guy that makes a sun in his hand and can make it in to a supernova or just let it roast everyone if he stops to contain it vs a woman with chakra reg and paralyisis neck touch.
even if she does hit him with everything she got, he had the body of god and infinite reg
and since she cant use alchamy she is boned

[Frost ninja]

well a guy that makes a sun in his hand

Debatable.

and can make it in to a supernova

Thats not how a sun works, especially not ours.

or just let it roast everyone if he stops to contain it vs a woman with chakra reg and paralyisis neck touch.

Any touch, not just neck.

even if she does hit him with everything she got, he had the body of god and infinite reg

He was beaten to death just fine from what I recall.

and since she cant use alchamy she is boned

... What? What does that have to do with anything? He gets his skull turned into a sake disk before he has much any chance to kill her.

[Bradley]

Simply put, the process is simple.

Item is placed.
Item is then moved at lightspeed.
Object then is stopped and appears.

Think of it like IT from DBZ. You basically convert the matter to chakra, and reform it at the location. This would be an easy solution to the idea that it can support inanimate objects moving at light speed, since the chakra isn't in a physical form and it can be manipulated easily being theres only one force working on it at any given time. The items have no chakra of their own, so you just break it down and reform it using your own chakra, fire it off, and turn it back into its original form. They summon clones and frogs off of just chakra, so its not completely out of the question that they can do the same to jars and messages.

Humans, on the other hand, have their own chakra so they can't exactly be broken down and reformed as openly. Doing so would almost always result in a dead ninja, since you would have to reconstruct them on a subatomic level and they would lose all physicality in the process. The only way for them to be transported is as a whole mass, and being shot at light speed as a human is means enough to be destroyed completely. Tsunade's regen is more than enough to prevent it, appearently.

So yeah, no protection.

Alright, this is a worthwhile response with some thought put into it (unlike others). The problem is, it's really just making a bunch of stuff up. Convert matter into chakra? Where was that stated? Humans have chakra so they can't be broken down the same? Where was that stated? And simply "being transported as a whole mass, and being shot as lightspeed" cannot be what the technique does. If it was, Tsunade and A would have left a huge trail of destruction, possibly destroying the entire continent. It has to be more than simply launching them at the speed of light, so we can't act and argue as if Tsunade and A survived simply being moved at the speed of light.

[Frost ninja]

Alright, this is a worthwhile response with some thought put into it (unlike others). The problem is, it's really just making a bunch of stuff up. Convert matter into chakra? Where was that stated? Humans have chakra so they can't be broken down the same? Where was that stated? And simply "being transported as a whole mass, and being shot as lightspeed" cannot be what the technique does. If it was, Tsunade and A would have left a huge trail of destruction, possibly destroying the entire continent. It has to be more than simply launching them at the speed of light, so we can't act and argue as if Tsunade and A survived simply being moved at the speed of light.

Theres a seperate network, and yeah they pretty much did. They were shown being transported along as full masses, they were stated as being whole along with the dangers, and the jutsu has already been stated to move objects at light speed and faster. Since you can't refute these, being they are chapter feats, I can make up the process (which seems logical) so long as it doesn't alter the feats themselves.

As to how it happened, it is possible they are transported through a chakra network that exists outside of the physical boundries (Essentialy, converting the inanimate objects hints that such a place exists). One can send plain mass but its not something that you want to do due to the extreme speeds that the process occurs. Though they are not physically interacting with the world around them, they are still physical forms under the stressors of high speeds.

Prove me wrong, I want feats.

[Bradley]

Theres a seperate network, and yeah they pretty much did. They were shown being transported along as full masses, they were stated as being whole along with the dangers, and the jutsu has already been stated to move objects at light speed and faster. Since you can't refute these, being they are chapter feats, I can make up the process (which seems logical) so long as it doesn't alter the feats themselves.

As to how it happened, it is possible they are transported through a chakra network that exists outside of the physical boundries (Essentialy, converting the inanimate objects hints that such a place exists). One can send plain mass but its not something that you want to do due to the extreme speeds that the process occurs. Though they are not physically interacting with the world around them, they are still physical forms under the stressors of high speeds.

Prove me wrong, I want feats.

You can make something up? Ok then. Then you should have no problem with me making up that the technique protects what it transports from the stresses of the speed of light, and this protection doesn't work entirely for humans. It doesn't change the statements that we get, after all.

[Frost ninja]

I already did, read above. Inanimate objects are broken down into chakra-form by the user, since they have no chakra of their own. Since chakra isn't physical in nature, its able to be transported along this other network and reconstructed on the other side.

Humans are both physical and have their own chakra, so it would be almost impossible to convert them into nothing but chakra in the same way, since their own chakra would be working against it and be impossible to manipulate and reform once it gets there.

Thus, humans have to be transported as they are along this lightspeed chakra highway, something not advisable due to the stressors of such high speeds on their physical masses.

[Bradley]

That goes a step further, though, and assumes that the technique moves humans in an entirely different fashion than it does inanimate objects.

[Frost ninja]

The fact that it did, however, mean human are subject to different situations within the same fashion of movement. Its still lightspeed chakra highway movement, same fashion of movement, different stressors occuring when its used in a way it wasn't made to, which is to be expected of most anything.

You use a hammer to screw in a nail, you are still screwing in a nail. However, you won't find it as effective as using a screwdriver to do the job.

[Bradley]

"It did"? It did what? Your posts are not really going along with mine.

And no, you wouldn't be screwing in a nail. You would be hammering it. Hammering =/= screwing.

[Frost ninja]

"It did"? It did what? Your posts are not really going along with mine.

And no, you wouldn't be screwing in a nail. You would be hammering it. Hammering =/= screwing.

You can use the backside of a hammer to screw in a nail as it could act as a larger flathead surface much like those found upon a screwdriver.

b:| Its not as effective, but its possible.
Even still, your post basically proves my point in that its just not something the hammer is meant to do, as such its design isn't intended for the use of screwing something in,

But it still can.


The transportation can transport inanimate objects as fast as light with no problem, thats what its made to do and the process listed above shows as much. Its POSSIBLE to transport people, but thats not what its designed to do and as such, you'll find it has a much different means to the same end as given its elements of the situation.

[Devils Lawyer]

So again no ch or pg offering a hint to protection being used. The reason you wanted someone to respond in detail Bradley is because longer post offers holes. Short and to the point posts throws all bs out the window. So let's get to the heart of the matter proof of protection or your hole arguement is made up and based solely on your thoughts.

[Bazk]

Whatever she does it cant match a guy who makes a sun in HIS PALM she will just burn up, if she just keeps on using her regen thing, he only needs to expend it so that is always to close to it and she will die in time, and if hoenhiem didnt mess up his souls he cant die... she can punch and summon slugs how much she wants. and just add this
he has gods power there wouldnt be much limit to his powers