The worst hokage

[PrinceofPeace]

About everybody can agree the worst/weakest hokage so far ar the 2nd and 5th hokage.... BUT which one is WORSE

SLUG PRINCESS- TSUNADE
OR WATER MASTER- TOBIRAMA

[Inferno Death]

prediction Tsunade wins the poll by a large amount

[PrinceofPeace]

If ppl are smart than yeah.

But the 2nd did do a lot of good at the same time

[Schnarf]

Tobirama, only because he developed Edo Tensei which led to it being perfected and used by Orochimaru and Kabuto.

[SasukeDude96]

Tsunade.

[PrinceofPeace]

Actually the 2nd didnt do that much he was killed very easily and establish the village which is not very hard

[Brin]

I'm going to go with Tsunade... it kinda bothered me that they spent so much time convincing her to take the position and then, what seemed, to be their first real fight she pretty much went into a coma and screwed up the entire village... so yeah, just... just no. =P

[PrinceofPeace]

But the 2nd invented EDO TENSEI
He was killed easily by 20 ninja
Saved his village once from two dangerous cloud ninja
Plus established the village
(he did not do that much) while...
Tsuande is probly stronger
Healed/ saved her village at the riski of her own life
And picked the village up when it was down

[Leewannabe]

The 2nd was probably the worst though he werent bad, he hust didnt do that much...

[Shikamaru Nara]

Tsunade by far.

How do you blame someone for creating a jutsu which was perfected by someone else? It's not like he planned that.

[-Vision-]

Tsunade.

Tobrima helped make and run the village which IS hard while on top of that he was training a group of students that would become some of the most respected Shinobi in Konoha. One of which Trained Tsunade. And on top of that he was fighting in a war where he wasn't "easily killed" he sacraficed himself to save his team and village.

[AAAAAAhhhhhh!]

Tobirama wasn't a drunk gambler

[Schnarf]

Tsunade by far.

How do you blame someone for creating a jutsu which was perfected by someone else? It's not like he planned that.

Doesn't matter, he shouldn't have been trying a jutsu like that in the first place.

[PrinceofPeace]

Tsunade could beat Tobirama

Tsunade saved her citizens and Tsunade has more on her plate than the 2nd ever did

Tsunade is disrespected to much. Tobirama just followed up on what his brother did he lives in the shadow of his brother.

If you compare what they have done Tsunade has done waaaayyyy more.

[Jonesy]

Tsunade is definitely the worst. If it wasn't for Naruto, Pain would have killed her and everyone in the whole entire Leaf village.

She is worthless.

[Sephiroth]

Tsunade could beat Tobirama

Tsunade saved her citizens and Tsunade has more on her plate than the 2nd ever did

Tsunade is disrespected to much. Tobirama just followed up on what his brother did he lives in the shadow of his brother.

If you compare what they have done Tsunade has done waaaayyyy more.
i tthink i will make a bg battle bc of this xD

[Shikamaru Nara]

Doesn't matter, he shouldn't have been trying a jutsu like that in the first place.

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.

Tsunade is weak.
Tsunade is indecisive.
Tsunade is stupid.
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
Tsunade is selfish.
Tsunade is a drunk.
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
Tsunade has downs syndrome.
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
Tsunade is lazy.
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:

[Jonesy]

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.

Tsunade is weak.
Tsunade is indecisive.
Tsunade is stupid.
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
Tsunade is selfish.
Tsunade is a drunk.
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
Tsunade has downs syndrome.
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
Tsunade is lazy.
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:

Marry me? `:oops: <3

[Sagepain]

I came into this thread with the intention of defending Tsunade.....................then I saw people compare her to Tobirama. http://kaizokuden.net/images/smilies/onions/c9c19202.gif

[The Second Pornkage]

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.

Tsunade is weak.
Tsunade is indecisive.
Tsunade is stupid.
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
Tsunade is selfish.
Tsunade is a drunk.
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
Tsunade has downs syndrome.
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
Tsunade is lazy.
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:
At first I was like, "Yes, continue!"
Then I was like "Ah, getting a bit speculative."
And finally "HOLY SWEET MRS. BUTTERWORTH THAT IS AN AMAZING ARGUMENT."

[Shikamaru Nara]

I tend to do that to keep my readers enthralled. :ugeek:

[Roronoa Zoro]

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.

Tsunade is weak.
Tsunade is indecisive.
Tsunade is stupid.
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
Tsunade is selfish.
Tsunade is a drunk.
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
Tsunade has downs syndrome.
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
Tsunade is lazy.
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:

Love it I mean she couldn't even take down a pain realm and shes the ''hokage''. Its so easy that Genin can do it *literally* xD lol

[Schnarf]

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.

Tsunade is weak.
Tsunade is indecisive.
Tsunade is stupid.
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
Tsunade is selfish.
Tsunade is a drunk.
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
Tsunade has downs syndrome.
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
Tsunade is lazy.
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:

I see lots of opinions and not many facts here.

[Shay]

I duno ._.

[Shikamaru Nara]

I see lots of opinions and not many facts here.

I see no facts here.

[Schnarf]

I see no facts here.

Yeah, well I do.

[joon61]

Love it I mean she couldn't even take down a pain realm and shes the ''hokage''. Its so easy that Genin can do it *literally* xD lolLMAO
So true.

[Opacityzero]

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.


She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.




The reason she sent Gennin after Sasuke was because everyone else was out on missions.

She's not the worst.
But she's definitely not the best.
In order.
1. Shodamine
2. Sarutobi
3. Minato
4. Tsunade
5. Nidamine.

Shodamine led Konoha through a war, not to mentions made the village what it is now.

Sarutobi lead Konoha through the Great Shinobi War, and fixed the village, Orochimaru.

Minato sacrificed himself to save the village.

Tsunade healed the village after the 3rd's death and healed many ninja(i.e Chouji and Lee) and trained two ninja that can someday possibly be candidate for Hokage(Shizune and Sakura). Not to mention the mass healing she did during the Konoha invasion.

Nidamine...did nothing. He was Hokage in the era of peace.
He sat around doing nothing pretty much.

[PrinceofPeace]

Tsunade is weak.- she could beat Tobirama he only has water style and it never kille anyone
Tsunade is indecisive.- opinion how
Tsunade is stupid. - opion how
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in. shes in tough fights what do you expect
Tsunade is selfish.- opinion how. A selfish person would not agree ot be hokage
Tsunade is a drunk. - she used to be and doesnt do that a whole bunch
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?- she used to be and doesnt do that a whole bunch
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.- she is facing the hardest conditions. He helped rebuild the village twice. and healed a bunch of villagers. taught sakura not to suck and could handle the 2nd in battle
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage. - she could beat tobirama
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were. - opionon how
Tsunade has downs syndrome. - lol no comment
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily. - lol no comment
Tsunade is lazy.- come on she is not shes fighting edo Madara right now and healed a whole bunch of people and taught to great ninja and many would be dead without her
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?- Thats fair
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.
---There was nobody else left many ninja were doing missions to get money for the villages and they did a good job. Plus she sent to sand siblings to hloep out casue she knew it would be a lot ot handle.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:[/QUOTE]

there a comback to pretty much everything. STOP HATING SO HARD GUYS. I am not a Tsunade fan but shes trying. She has a lot on her plate and is facing the hardest challenges of ANY kage.

[NextGenTactics]

I say Tsunade, they're both Senju but Tobirama is Tsunade's Granduncle. And he was more powerful than Tsunade, so I don't see her as worst, just that Tobirama was better.

Plus, he made the Summoning: Impure World Resurrection Technique.

[Grizamaru]

tsunade she could be helpful but wasnt really cut out for the job :L

[PrinceofPeace]

Tobirama would LOSE to Tsunade in a fight

[Naruske Uzuchi]

That's your opinion.

However, I have factual statements to back up my claims.

Tsunade is weak.
Tsunade is indecisive.
Tsunade is stupid.
Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
Tsunade is selfish.
Tsunade is a drunk.
Tsunade likes to gamble, what stops her from doing it with villagers?
Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
Tsunade has downs syndrome.
Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
Tsunade is lazy.
Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.


The list goes on and on.
How long is yours? :lol:
Tsunde is not the one to blame. Lets blame it all on Kishimoto since he like to rape and make peole weaker than Naruto

Also for the people who said the 2nd hokage did nothing is wrong:p I mean we barely know anything about the guy except he was the 2nd hokage and invented Edo Tensei. But Iagree on how hes in his brother shadow and will never be like him... hmmn thinking about itI would pick Tobirama

[Marfi]

Tobirama would LOSE to Tsunade in a fight


Tsunade could never beat the 2nd.All she can do is kick and punch.You said water style can't kill anyone.Well,all her kicks will be wasted on his water clones(that is if she could hit him).If Tobirama could imprison her inside a water prison than its game over.Also if the 2nd is like Kisame(though I think there is strong chance that he is better than Kisame) then she has no chance.And the 2nd could use Genjutsu.And don't forget about his reanimation jutsu and space-time ninjutsu.

Actually she is mainly a medical ninja.Not a fighting type.So, it's almost laughable that you think Tsunade could beat the 2nd.


And Tsunade is the worst hokage.

I still remember how I felt when Hiruzen fought and died while fighting with Orochimaru(who was the leader of that attack).Even though he couldn't beat him duo to old age and stuff but thats the duty of a Kage.While Tsunade was advised to rest and take some tea while Naruto fight with Pein.She couldn't do a thing to stop Pein.Yes,she gave her chakra to everyone but that is because that's all she can do.She is so pathetic that pein didn't kill her.Nagato just ignored her.A normal Kage would try to take down the enemy like Gaara vs Deidara and fought with Pein like Naruto.Tsunade is a medical nin so she did her work like a medical nin not a kage.

And she is the ONLY kage who is not elected for his/her quality.She was elected because there was no one as good as her as the hokage.Jiraiya was stronger than her but Naruto's time is the time of peace.So there was no need for the stronger ninja to be the hokage but the one who is best at management.
Just look at the other hokage.All of them were elected at the time of their prime.They showed all the quality of a hokage.So,previous hokage made them hokage.The third didn't choose her to be the 5th hokage.She is more like a substitute hokage to me.Even Kabuto was embarrassed that she is master of the medical nin jutsu a God like figure to all the medical nin like Kabuto.Kabuto even didn't count her as one of the Sanin as he was upset that he couldn't fight Jiraiya ,one of the legendary Sanin.

Though she has her stuffs.She got strong will power and the best medical nin.She is the inventor of this whole medical ninjutsu process.
She is probably best at what Shizune is doing in Shinobi world war arc the captain of medical unit not a kage.

[PrinceofPeace]

Tsunade could never beat the 2nd.All she can do is kick and punch.You said water style can't kill anyone.Well,all her kicks will be wasted on his water clones(that is if she could hit him).If Tobirama could imprison her inside a water prison than its game over.Also if the 2nd is like Kisame(though I think there is strong chance that he is better than Kisame) then she has no chance.And the 2nd could use Genjutsu.

Actually she is mainly a medical ninja.Not a fighting type.So, it's almost laughable that you think Tsunade could beat the 2nd.


And Tsunade is the worst hokage.

I still remember how I felt when Hiruzen fought and died while fighting with Orochimaru(who was the leader of that attack).Even though he couldn't beat him duo to old age and stuff but thats the duty of a Kage.While Tsunade was advised to rest and take some tea while Naruto fight with Pein.She couldn't do a thing to stop Pein.Yes,she gave her chakra to everyone but that is because that's all she can do.She is so pathetic that pein didn't kill her.Nagato just ignored her.A normal Kage would try to take down the enemy like Gaara vs Deidara and fought with Pein like Naruto.Tsunade is a medical nin so she did her work like a medical nin not a kage.

And she is the ONLY kage who is not elected for his/her quality.She was elected because there was no one as good as her as the hokage.Jiraiya was stronger than her but Naruto's time is the time of peace.So there was no need for the stronger ninja to be the hokage but the one who is best at management.
Just look at the other hokage.All of them were elected at the time of their prime.They showed all the quality of a hokage.So,previous hokage made them hokage.The third didn't choose her to be the 5th hokage.She is more like a substitute hokage to me.Even Kabuto was embarrassed that she is master of the medical nin jutsu a God like figure to all the medical nin like Kabuto.Kabuto even didn't count her as one of the Sanin as he was upset that he couldn't fight Jiraiya ,one of the legendary Sanin.

Though she has her stuffs.She got strong will power and the best medical nin.She is the inventor of this whole medical ninjutsu process.
She is probably best at what Shizune is doing in Shinobi world war arc the captain of medical unit not a kage.

FIRST OF ALL THERE IS NOOOOOO WAY TOBIRAMA COULD EVER BEAT KISAME.Tsunade has her summoings to get her out of genjutsu. the 2nd does not have water prison.

Its not laughable water style HAS NEVER KILLED A NINJA one hit from Tsunade and the 2nd cant move of gets a HULK LIKE PUNCH TO THE FACE

Tsuande is facing the worst conditions as hokage. But what did the 2nd do just live in his brohters glory he didnt trust the Uchiha Clan and only made order in the village. Tobirama lost easily to the lighting ninjas and is not facing nearly as bad situations as Tsunade. Tsuande helped more in the Edo Madara fight than the 2nd ever would.

Tobirama would last just as long (MOST LIKLEY SHORTER) than Tsunade ever would/will. Tobirama would have an even worse time in that situaion he could never heal/save so many.

There are too many Tsunade HATERS she is doing the best she can in HORRIBLE situations

[Marfi]

FIRST OF ALL THERE IS NOOOOOO WAY TOBIRAMA COULD EVER BEAT KISAME.Tsunade has her summoings to get her out of genjutsu. the 2nd does not have water prison.

Its not laughable water style HAS NEVER KILLED A NINJA one hit from Tsunade and the 2nd cant move of gets a HULK LIKE PUNCH TO THE FACE

Tsuande is facing the worst conditions as hokage. But what did the 2nd do just live in his brohters glory he didnt trust the Uchiha Clan and only made order in the village. Tobirama lost easily to the lighting ninjas and is not facing nearly as bad situations as Tsunade. Tsuande helped more in the Edo Madara fight than the 2nd ever would.

Tobirama would last just as long (MOST LIKLEY SHORTER) than Tsunade ever would/will. Tobirama would have an even worse time in that situaion he could never heal/save so many.

There are too many Tsunade HATERS she is doing the best she can in HORRIBLE situations

Ninja like Tsunade could only fight good puppet master(like Sakura with Sasori).As,they don't use ninjutsu or genjutsu or clone.We've seen the full extinct of Tsunades power.But we've seen almost nothing of the 2nd.We didn't saw 2nd using water prison.But if someone like Zabuza(who is kinda lightweight comparing to kage level) could use water clone and water prison then why the 2nd can't use?And you're keep saying water style is not deadly.But how many water style user and jutsu have we seen?And don't you think Kisame is a deadly water style user?

And how do you know what the 2nd would do in Tsunades situation if you you don't know full extinct of his power?

It seems like you'r bringing facts from manga.But I only watch anime and older version of manga.So I can't tell about that.

I am not a Tsunade hater but more likely Hokage Tsunade hater.Though she is the best position for the title now.But even there were any of the previous hokage (excluding danzo) is alive now then her best positon would be medical unit captain.She maybe got some things of a hokage but she is better suited to be the medical unit captain not hokage.

[Godaime Kazekage]

Neither of them. It was Hiruzen.

The 3rd world war happened during his reign-not saying it was his fault, but he wasn't able to prevent it diplomatically.

He failed to deal with the Uchiha coup situation.

He failed to deal with Orochimaru...twice.

In Hiruzen's defense, he was the longest reigning Hokage so there was more time/opportunities for the s`:P`:P`:P to hit the fan.

[Sagepain]

^ You know...........I actually agree with you
Danzo was infinitely better than him.

[Shikamaru Nara]

And Tsunade is the worst of all.

[KiriKyontoCat]

I never really did think Tsunade was as good compared to most,but maybe slightly more than Tobirama,I'm sorry

[PrinceofPeace]

Neither of them. It was Hiruzen.

The 3rd world war happened during his reign-not saying it was his fault, but he wasn't able to prevent it diplomatically.

He failed to deal with the Uchiha coup situation.

He failed to deal with Orochimaru...twice.

In Hiruzen's defense, he was the longest reigning Hokage so there was more time/opportunities for the s`:P`:P`:P to hit the fan.

Here is where I disagree with you ( altough I know what you mean):
If the Third did not fight in the war the Leaf would have been destroyed
He was out voted the Uchiha thing was out of his hands
I will give you the Orochimaru comment the Third did mess up on that one

But he raised the most powerful shinobi
And with his guidance the leaf became one of the strongest villages

[PrinceofPeace]

Ninja like Tsunade could only fight good puppet master(like Sakura with Sasori).As,they don't use ninjutsu or genjutsu or clone.We've seen the full extinct of Tsunades power.But we've seen almost nothing of the 2nd.We didn't saw 2nd using water prison.But if someone like Zabuza(who is kinda lightweight comparing to kage level) could use water clone and water prison then why the 2nd can't use?And you're keep saying water style is not deadly.But how many water style user and jutsu have we seen?And don't you think Kisame is a deadly water style user?

And how do you know what the 2nd would do in Tsunades situation if you you don't know full extinct of his power?

It seems like you'r bringing facts from manga.But I only watch anime and older version of manga.So I can't tell about that.

I am not a Tsunade hater but more likely Hokage Tsunade hater.Though she is the best position for the title now.But even there were any of the previous hokage (excluding danzo) is alive now then her best positon would be medical unit captain.She maybe got some things of a hokage but she is better suited to be the medical unit captain not hokage.

Kisame is deadly I am just saying water style has never killed anybody yet it can it just didnt happen (yet)

Do you know what the 2nd would have done ? Do you think the 2nd would do better if so why and how?

Tsunade could have taken 20 lighting ninja villagers `!:)

I am just saying compare what Tsunade and Tobirama did for the village you will see Tsunade has done twice than more Tobirama did. b@x)

You keep saying what if the 2nd could do this or that but that doesnt matter. Kakashi has compied thousands of ninjutsu so should he be top Tier and praised for having abilites we have not seen??`:P:?:

Please tell me How the 2nd beats Tsunade in a fight????:roll:

[DreamsOnWings]

Well, the Second did establish the chunin exams and different levels of shinobi and the Uchiha police thing....right? Tsunade, well.... uh....In terms of nurturing Konoha, she didn't do as much. Then again Tobirama and his brother both died off pretty early, but I still say Tobirama did more than Tsunade.

[PrinceofPeace]

Tsunade didnt help nurture the village???

She reubuilded the village after the attack of PAIN and Orochimaru
and healed the villagers of the Leaf

[Marfi]

Kisame is deadly I am just saying water style has never killed anybody yet it can it just didnt happen (yet)

Do you know what the 2nd would have done ? Do you think the 2nd would do better if so why and how?

Tsunade could have taken 20 lighting ninja villagers `!:)

I am just saying compare what Tsunade and Tobirama did for the village you will see Tsunade has done twice than more Tobirama did. b@x)

You keep saying what if the 2nd could do this or that but that doesnt matter. Kakashi has compied thousands of ninjutsu so should he be top Tier and praised for having abilites we have not seen??`:P:?:

Please tell me How the 2nd beats Tsunade in a fight????:roll:

The thing is we haven't seen anything of Tobirama.How he lived,how was the condition of the village in his time,a normal fight of him,what he did for the village etc.So you can't compare what Tsunade and Tobirama did for the village.But yes,from what we've seen Tsunade has done twice as many thing for the village than Tobirama.

You want to know how 2nd beat Tsunade in fight.I think I told enough about that.
You told that Tsunade could beat 20 cloud ninja.

Well,we all have our opinion.This is the last post of mine in this thread.Because I think both of us made our points in previous posts.So there is nothing more to discuss really.
All the member who are watching this thread will read our posts and they'll have their opinion.

[PrinceofPeace]

The thing is we haven't seen anything of Tobirama.How he lived,how was the condition of the village in his time,a normal fight of him,what he did for the village etc.So you can't compare what Tsunade and Tobirama did for the village.But yes,we know Tsunade has done twice as many thing for the village than Tobirama.

You want to know how 2nd beat Tsunade in fight.I think I told enough about that.
You told that Tsunade could beat 20 cloud ninja.

Well,we all have our opinion.This is the last post of mine in this thread.Because I think both of us made our points in previous posts.So there is nothing more to discuss really.
All the member who are watching this thread will read our posts and they'll have their opinion.
From What we DO KNOW I hope you can agree Tsunade is better
Tsunade could punch through any water style attack and dont forget Tsunade's slug and her medical style is she DID get hurt.
Dont make assumptions. We kinda know the era of the time if you go on Naruotpeida. He was tricked by the lighting village. Attacked by two lighting villagers and survived. Cultivated the village and has about 5 jutsu and a sword that was STOLEN BY A GENIN the 2nd is not sunding impressive
Nice discussing with your fellow ninja

[satanspawngenma]

Tsunade didnt help nurture the village???

She reubuilded the village after the attack of PAIN and Orochimaru
and healed the villagers of the Leaf

this statement is actually incorrect, yamato and the villagers did most the rebuilding during after pein, and people from the land of water came over to help rebuild after orochimaru. Did i mention she was not the kage during the orochimaru attack, and even though jiraiya was there she, being a terrible leaf shinobi was absent. she is selfish, as jiraiya and naruto had to hunt her down to get her to be kage, but she refused until orochimaru came. nagato himself revived all the villagers..... when pein attacked she went into a comma and had to rely on a 16 year old genin to save them all. she has done NOTHING for the leaf except sat behind her desk and B****ed about her work.

tobirama created the ninja academy, chunin exams, konoha military police, ninja ranking system, and ANBU. he created the infrastructure of the leaf, and trained hiruzen, not to mention the second ninja war.

Tsunade, allowed sasuke to leave, and almost killed a group of genin in the process. is responsible for the death of half the leaf as she couldn't stop pein(nagato revived everyone not her). student wise she trained sakura, im sure that stands up to training hiruzen right? as for wars, yes she has the great ninja war now, but she is the first kage to have 4 other villages helping her in a war, and shes not even in charge A is.

for how much i have heard about the argument of this is an opinion. the biggest opinion of them all is that tsunade is stronger than tobirama. where is your proof, what facts does anyone have to prove this. she has super strength, healing, and summoning slugs that spit acid.
he has space time ninjutsu, advanced taijutsu, genjutsu, as well as the greatest water skill the world has ever known(zabuza, and kisame were dangerous enough using water style). water style is incredibly dangerous as you can change the hardness and shape of it at will.

also tobiramas death is not something that can be held against him, the 20 cloud shinobi that killed him, were called the kinkaku force, and was a group of at least 20 highly skilled cloud shinobi. as far as we know they all could have been kage level ninja. also him and his team were out on a mission beforehand, meaning that they were low on chakra and possible injured.

[LilHinataGirl]

2nd is the worse because of the creation of Edo Tensei, this moved was perfected and controlled when evil got it... Tsunade isn't AS bad but the 2nd is by far worse because of the conduct of the new war...

[TobiramaSenju307]

it kinda bothered me that they spent so much time convincing her to take the position and then, what seemed, to be their first real fight she pretty much went into a coma and screwed up the entire village...
her first real fight was putting a stop to orochimaru without dying which third failed at. she SAVED the entire village.

Tsunade is weak.
yet snapped a susano sword in half and threw it at madara, healing instantly as well.

Tsunade is stupid.
tsunade created the whole medical ninja system, sent reinforcements to sasuke retrieval squad, created a counter to pains shinra tensei and helped with the strategy to let naruto pass and join the war.


Tsunade gets her ass kicked in every fight she's in.
tsunade defeated both oro and manda instantly after getting over her blood phobia. she had villagers to save vs pain and so couldnt fight to the best of her ability. shes doing the second best out of anyone vs edo madara

Tsunade is selfish.
never has she ever behaved selfish since narutos TNJ in part 1.

Tsunade is a drunk.
she had one sake with jiraiya. never any time after that

Tsunade is the worst Hokage.
tsunades never made any mistakes during her rule and has kept the village afloat despite so many threats against it. hiruzen is the worst hokage for letting naruto suffer, letting oro go and letting danzo commit the uchiha genocide.

Tsunade is the weakest Hokage.
as things are now shed put up a good fight vs all of them. tobiramas the weakest for now.

Tsunade has no good leadership qualities as it were.
THEN WHY DOES JIRAIYA SAY SHES THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB?

Tsunade likes to gamble, NO SHE DOESNT

Tsunade gets raped by Kishimoto daily.
and yet is getting more respect than A in the madara fight.

Tsunade makes Shizune do everything that she can't. What other Hokages have made their assistants do Hokage work?
shizune is an assistant. she assists. most hokages do just sit there and deal with paperwork and handing out missions

She deployed a bunch of Genin and a Chunin in the Sasuke arc against the unknown, who would have been killed had the Sand villagers never come.
she had no one else to send. the other jounins were on missions.

Tsunade is definitely the worst. If it wasn't for Naruto, Pain would have killed her and everyone in the whole entire Leaf village.
if it wasnt for tsunade katsuyu and hinata would never have come to narutos aid and hed have been captured for sure. tsunade saved the leaf. if it wasnt for her naruto wouldnt have come back at all. and if you want to get technical, naruto failed. kyuubi and minato saved everyones asses.


She is worthless.
shes one of the strongest shinobi thats ever lived

Tobirama wasn't a drunk gambler
yeah he was a racist kinjutsu userr

Tobrima helped make and run the village which IS hard
and tsunade didnt? she created the whole medic system

And Tsunade is the worst hokage.
no hiruzen is


Tsunade could never beat the 2nd.All she can do is kick and punch
and slug acid, and army of slugs. and body pathway derangement. and immortality. and self healing. and vast knowledge on effective poisons and genjutsu effects like when she healed sasuke from itachis mind torture

If Tobirama could imprison her inside a water prison than its game over.
too bad he cant steal jutsus unique to another whole village.


And she is the ONLY kage who is not elected for his/her quality.She was elected because there was no one as good as her as the hokage
exactly. no one else is fit for the job. not jiraiya. not naruto. and jiraiya even said no ones better for the job than her.


Nagato just ignored her.A normal Kage would try to take down the enemy like Gaara vs Deidara
a normal kage would protect their citizens which is what gaara chose to do rather than defeat deidara

Jiraiya was stronger than her
hokages arent picked because of raw power.

The third didn't choose her to be the 5th hokage.yeah he wanted orochimaru...sure wish he wasnt hokage. he made some huge screwups


Even Kabuto was embarrassed that she is master of the medical nin jutsu a God like figure to all the medical nin like Kabuto.Kabuto even didn't count her as one of the Sanin as he was upset that he couldn't fight Jiraiya ,one of the legendary Sanin
he respected her and showed he "Cant fight two sannin at once" which is why he used the blood against her to stop it being too difficult for himself. so yeah kabuto considered her a sannin

But if someone like Zabuza(who is kinda lightweight comparing to kage level) could use water clone and water prison then why the 2nd can't use?
because those techs are unique to mist village. just cos its his element doesnt mean he copied that exact technique.

[TobiramaSenju307]

Tsunade, allowed sasuke to leave,
she didnt allow anyone to leave. he snuck out in the dead of night.


almost killed a group of genin in the process
if they had been fodder chunin you probably wouldnt have been crying about it. she did the best she could


is responsible for the death of half the leaf as she couldn't stop pein(nagato revived everyone not her
thats horseshit. so hiruzen is at fault for the deaths of half the leaf because he failed to solo the sand/sound army and got trapped in the barrier? your basically claiming they personally killed half the village because the villain was too strong for them to stop! tsunade may have had to watch half the village die but she saved the other half. i like how you ignore that had danzo decided to help out they may have pushed pain back without needing tsunade to go into a coma trying to heal everyone alone.


also tobiramas death is not something that can be held against him, the 20 cloud shinobi that killed him, were called the kinkaku force, and was a group of at least 20 highly skilled cloud shinobi
and pain is GODDAMN PAIN yet you fault her for failing to stop him


nd even though jiraiya was there she, being a terrible leaf shinobi was absent. she is selfish, as jiraiya and naruto had to hunt her down to get her to be kage
then so is jiraiya who also was not around to help protect his village from tobi/kyuubi rampage. that is what your logic demands. she WAS selfish but got TNJ'd and became heroic again.


nagato himself revived all the villagers
had tsunade failed to heal hinata and summon katsuyu, he would not have had to because naruto would have lost the battle.


tobirama created the ninja academy
tsunade created the whole medical ninja system and was the reason konoha won the 2nd great war

[AkatsukiMember]

Well, in my opinion there are a lot of good views on both sides. Both ninja had there faults and they have their weak points. Tobirama might have created edo tensei, but you can't blame him for edo tensei being apart of the new ninja war. Orochimaru could have discovered a way to bring back the dead on his own. Who knows we won't ever know. That argument is kind of invalid.

Jutsu were perfected and invented that's just that. Kakashi taught Sasuke how to use chidori. You can't blame Kakashi for Sasuke improving it and using it against his former teammates at the beginning of Part 2 of the series.

Both hokage had a part in improving the village, but did little that we know of. Let's just say, they both are the worsts and leave it at that.

[Akatsuki Tsunade]

I pick Danzo

[Marfi]

exactly. no one else is fit for the job. not jiraiya. not naruto. and jiraiya even said no ones better for the job than her.
a normal kage would protect their citizens which is what gaara chose to do rather than defeat deidara
hokages arent picked because of raw power.
Kages are the best fighter one village can produce in genarations.They are some legend who got 100 in 100 in everything like the previous hokages.But in this genaration,Jiraiya maybe stronger than Tsunade but didn't had the mentality of a hokage.And Tsunade may have the mentality of a hokage but don't have the power to be a hokage.What I meant is Tsunade was the best choice but that isn't enough.It's like getting the best result among all the students who failed.

And as for saving the citizen......ha ha ha.She used up all her strength to save everyone.But that is 1/3 of the problem solved.Because who's gonna stop Pein?Probably the real Hokage huh?Protecting the citizen is important but stop the enemy OR TRYING to stop the enemy is also another important thing.Yet she did a little chit-chat and saw Pein destroy the leaf.

Gaara used most of his chakra in Deidaras atom bomb.He couldn't do anything else.But Tsunade used most of her chakra from almighty push.She could use that same amount of chakra during her little chit-chat with pein to stop or trying to stop him.


because those techs are unique to mist village. just cos its his element doesnt mean he copied that exact technique.

First of all how do you know that this techs are unique to mist?Where did you know this?

Well,Tobirama lived in the time of clans.The villages were established later.So,that time all the clans were fighting with each other all the time.And mist village was made with clans which were good at water style.

There is a chance that these jutsu are clan only jutsu that only the member of that clan knows.Like Uchiha clan and Senju clan.But both Zabuza and Kisame used it.And they are not from the same clan.So,it proves that this jutsu is not a jutsu of one clan or some secret jutsu.

So,the most probable thing is that in that time some clans who were good at water style knew this tech.Some of them probably went to mist village which is the reason why mist can do that.

But both Tobirama and Hashirama had water style.So,Senju clan is probably one of the few who were good at water style.So,there is a strong chance that they knew water prison.

Of course its all theory but so as your "mist only tech"

[Akatsuki Tsunade]

Just IGNOR the Tsunde haters this form just happens to have a lot. Other forms are the opposite. N e ways I used to defend her with valid facts but you can not argue with stupid trust me :) but I still appreciate your posts defending her

[PrinceofPeace]

First of all how do you know that this techs are unique to mist?Where did you know this?

Well,Tobirama lived in the time of clans.The villages were established later.So,that time all the clans were fighting with each other all the time.And mist village was made with clans which were good at water style.

There is a chance that these jutsu are clan only jutsu that only the member of that clan knows.Like Uchiha clan and Senju clan.But both Zabuza and Kisame used it.And they are not from the same clan.So,it proves that this jutsu is not a jutsu of one clan or some secret jutsu.

So,the most probable thing is that in that time some clans who were good at water style knew this tech.Some of them probably went to mist village which is the reason why mist can do that.

But both Tobirama and Hashirama had water style.So,Senju clan is probably one of the few who were good at water style.So,there is a strong chance that they knew water prison.

Of course its all theory but so as your "mist only tech"[/QUOTE]

Here we Battle with FACTS no if ands maybies or buts Tobirama never showed Water Prison SO HE DOES NOT HAVE IT.

zabuza and kisame are not from the same clan but they are form the same village and swordsman team

[Opacityzero]

In order best to worst.
1. Shodamine
2. Sarutobi
3. Minato
4. Tsunade
5. Nidamine.

[Lady Tsunade]

inb4 TSUANDE GUT KONOHURR DESTRHURRED BY PAIN.

Tobirama created the Ninja Academy, ANBU, Chuunin Exams and also founded the Konoha Police Ops. Tobirama was regarded as one of the strongest shinobi of his time and a famed Suiton master. He was also supposedly skilled with Space/Time ninjutsu according to Minato.

Tsunade established the entire medical shinobi system, saved most of Konoha from Peins attacks, and formed a strong alliance with Sunagakure. She also organised the re-construction of Konoha twice over. She is known as the strongest woman in the world, the greatest medical ninja of all time and someone who seemingly can't die in battle.

As far as flaws go, Tobirama created the Edo Tensei, which would cause a lot of problems for the generations to come. Ultimately, Tobirama's student would die by the hands of his own jutsu, and Orochimaru jeopardized both Konoha and Suna with the technique by stripping the villages of their respective Kage. Tobirama also worsened the relationship with the Uchiha through the establishment of the Konoha Police Ops, which was created so that ANBU could keep an eye on them. This in turn contributed to the Uchiha turning against Konoha, and the village having to slaughter the entire clan.

Tsunade wasn't strong enough to combat Pein during his Invasion, and while she still did a great job of protecting Konoha, she had to rely on Naruto to defeat him. Tsunade never actually ordered for the capture of Sasuke, she had faith that Naruto would stop him and bring him back to Konoha instead.

Taking this into account - battle strength, accomplishments, titles and flaws too, Tsunade was the better Kage. Tobirama did well as a Hokage, but his invention of the Edo Tensei meant what he left behind for the next generation would cause many problems in years to come, certainly more than any of Tsunade's mishaps would. Tsunade had a lot of great achievements during her reign, and has protected Konoha well from every threat its faced thus far.

[Hidan.of dA.MisT]

The 2nd hokage cant even do nothing but water dragons.
Kakashi can copy that, atleast tsunade can heal and is super strong.

[PrinceofPeace]

^Agreed most of what Tobirama did was easily done or copied or backfired

[Jwoyal]

Tobirama. First of all, Tsunade is a sannin, and the only one of the three that's is still alive (without the use of the Edo Tensei). And from the recent chapters, we can see that Tobirama was very reckless.

[Shisko Shi]

How is Tobirama weak? We just have't seen much of him.

[PrinceofPeace]

from what we know he is weaker and everything he did for the village backfired

[kalmeast]

^ lol...your hatred for tobirama is become obnoxious... u need to chill a little...

it's worst than shikamaru Nara's for Tsunade lol...

[PrinceofPeace]

I am not hating. I am stating facts. Ther's a difference

[Mr.Nardo2000]

Nah the 2nd Hokage can resurect ppl, ithink think the 3rd is actually the worst but since he wasnt on the list i picked tsunade

[PrinceofPeace]

Nah the 2nd Hokage can resurect ppl, ithink think the 3rd is actually the worst but since he wasnt on the list i picked tsunade
resurrecting people is not a good thing

[Tobi Rinnegan]

Lol Danzo should be an option, he was awful. Tobirama was second only to his brother Hashirama in terms of strength, so that can't be one of your evaluation points. Unless of course you are inferring that Hashirama was never that powerful?

[YellowFlashOfKonoha]

I don't get why so many people hate on tsunade, the only other hokage that coulda stopped the pain invasion would be hashirama, all others would have died. She has good character and is a good leader, she was given a sh*tstorm to deal with because of previous hokage and elders (the third's death, danzo being a jerk, nine-tails in naruto cuz of minato, etc.) I dont understand why shes so hated on

[Divine Rush]

I don't get why so many people hate on tsunade, the only other hokage that coulda stopped the pain invasion would be hashirama, all others would have died. She has good character and is a good leader, she was given a sh*tstorm to deal with because of previous hokage and elders (the third's death, danzo being a jerk, nine-tails in naruto cuz of minato, etc.) I dont understand why shes so hated on
i wouldnt say she was the only one that could fight him off cause all the other kages where stronger than her she has her own qualities etc

[Rouge Uchiha18]

from what we know he is weaker and everything he did for the village backfired

If you are talking about Tobirama, he helped make the organizational system of the village. Which I don't think, exactly backfired.

[Divine Rush]

he just didn't like what the uchihas were doing he saw that all of them meant harm on his village he knew they could not be trusted and he was correct except the itachi thing cause he was actually good and didn't believe in the uchiha ways either it seemed like

[Brady]

I personally think Tsunade cant handle Hokage. She couldnt even beat PAIN!!

[Shisko Shi]

^ Oh yea.

[Mejidd]

Nah the 2nd Hokage can resurect ppl, ithink think the 3rd is actually the worst but since he wasnt on the list i picked tsunade

How was the 3rd the worst... Like, seriously?

[Andrew Namikaze]

I personally think the 3rd and Tsunade were the worst. Tobirama was commanding and wasnt scared.

[PrinceofPeace]

Lol Danzo should be an option, he was awful. Tobirama was second only to his brother Hashirama in terms of strength, so that can't be one of your evaluation points. Unless of course you are inferring that Hashirama was never that powerful?
Danzo is not an option because he was never hokage and never will be
THAT IS THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT

I don't get why so many people hate on tsunade, the only other hokage that coulda stopped the pain invasion would be hashirama, all others would have died. She has good character and is a good leader, she was given a sh*tstorm to deal with because of previous hokage and elders (the third's death, danzo being a jerk, nine-tails in naruto cuz of minato, etc.) I dont understand why shes so hated on
Thank you

i wouldnt say she was the only one that could fight him off cause all the other kages where stronger than her she has her own qualities etc
besides TObirama and old Hiruzen. Lol what could they do?
What would be better

Knowing you can not beat the major enemy do you

A.Heal and try to save the lives as many people as you can
OR
B.Fight the enemey

the CORRECT answer is A! The hokage is not suppose to defeat every and all enemies. A TRUE hokage would protect his people. Lol not even minato could be Pain so how would Tobirama or old Hiruzen?

If you are talking about Tobirama, he helped make the organizational system of the village. Which I don't think, exactly backfired.
It did not but Hashirama came up with the academy idea. Tobirama just piggy-backed off of Hashirama. Anyone could have done what Tobirama did. I mean now that you have a village...what do you do next? It's pretty obvoius. Make order and education. I do give him props for the chunnin exams. But Tobirama did not do much. On the other hand....
Tsuande REBUILT the village twice AND saved the lives of vital characters such as Kakashi AND he gave the confidence and freedom of Naruto

he just didn't like what the uchihas were doing he saw that all of them meant harm on his village he knew they could not be trusted and he was correct except the itachi thing cause he was actually good and didn't believe in the uchiha ways either it seemed like
they could be trusted. The Uchiha proved themseleves. They betrayed Madara for the village. The Uchiha helped built the village. The Clan was just as suspisous as the other clans. Tobirama was just a jerk who was scared of the Uchiha cuz he is weak

I personally think Tsunade cant handle Hokage. She couldnt even beat PAIN!!
Lol so what?
You REALLY think Tobirama or OLD hiruzen or Minato could beat him?b:|
Get REal

^ Oh yea.
YEAH!

How was the 3rd the worst... Like, seriously?
yeah Tobirama is obviously worse

I personally think the 3rd and Tsunade were the worst. Tobirama was commanding and wasnt scared.
Tobriamaw as also a jerk that let the village fail and he could not even keep the peace. he sucks. And created ET which we all know is STUIPD

[Andrew Namikaze]

As long as I know these are the standings( In terms of strength )
1. 1st
2. Minato
3. Tobirama
4. 3rd
5. Tsunade

[PrinceofPeace]

how is Tobiram stronger than the 3rd or 5th?

how does Tusande beat Kataysu?
Tsuande can punch the suiton and katon away just like he did with Madara's katon

An old Hiruzen with doton beat weaker Tobirama.
So Tobirama is the weakest

[Andrew Namikaze]

In the chapter when sasuke revives them Tobirama almost chrushed the building they were in by MOVING HIS FINGERS

[PrinceofPeace]

so Tsaunde could have done that with one punch or her finger or summongin kataysu and spitting acid on it.

Either way They both could ha e done it and it does not matter cuz acid spits on him for the WIN

[Divine Rush]

yeah but the 2nd has way more ability's and better jutsus then tsunade not saying she sucks just the 2nd was just as strong as the 1st but a little more Nerf but he is a great shinobi he was just worried about the village as much as the uchihas with his and yes both tsunade and the 2nd have the same strength ability but the 1st was the strongest to me and tsunade is only his niece the 2nd is his brother so he gets more of the family abilities etc i think

[AeoKyn]

a punch isn't exactly a tap prince.

[PrinceofPeace]

yeah but the 2nd has way more ability's and better jutsus then tsunade not saying she sucks just the 2nd was just as strong as the 1st but a little more Nerf but he is a great shinobi he was just worried about the village as much as the uchihas with his
@ what is in RED
Your joking right. Please take that back. PLEASE

Tsuande has
-healing
-super strenght
-acid spitting slug

Tobirama has...just water ninjutsu


a punch isn't exactly a tap prince.
I said she could do it with her finger as well.
PTS Tsuande took out PTS Naruto and made a crack in the ground with a SINGLE FINGER

and just because someone can break a building faster does not make them stronger

[Greenrust]

the 2nd was scared shitless of the first. he wouldn't be able to touch harishma much less injury him. also everyone's saying tsunades very weak because she loses all her fights. well look at her oppenets. Nagato who could kill almost anyone in the naruto universe. edo madara, do i even have to explain this one. orchimaru. this guy took on two sannin with out arms this guy is a beast all though severely underrated after being beaten by sasuke.

[Andrew Namikaze]

Yeah Exactly thank you Aeo. As far as I seen no one has almost crushed a building by tighting his fists alittle. In a fight 2nd could have dealt with Tsunade. Not saying that shes weak shes pretty strong just not as strong as Tobirama.

[Shisko Shi]

Please do not use TObirama.... Pop you should know this bettwe then anyone.. Hype he is WAY stronger then Slug Girl

Feats nothing atm... So stop using Tobi.

[Divine Rush]

yeah she might have beat naruto then but he could probley take her now where he is now and the 2nd has more than just water moves he is a great shinobi he has way more knowledge of the shinobi world then tsunade ever did

[AeoKyn]

Prince of Peace, Kindly choose one thread to hate on tobirama and provide us a link so we can ignore it accordingly.

[Shisko Shi]

the 2nd was scared shitless of the first. he wouldn't be able to touch harishma much less injury him. also everyone's saying tsunades very weak because she loses all her fights. well look at her oppenets. Nagato who could kill almost anyone in the naruto universe. edo madara, do i even have to explain this one. orchimaru. this guy took on two sannin with out arms this guy is a beast all though severely underrated after being beaten by sasuke.


Using no armed Orochimaru is not a good fact to use...

[Andrew Namikaze]

The 2nd could only be beaten by 1st and Madara. Other than that, the closest to him is Naruto which I think could beat him if hr tried really hard.

[Shisko Shi]

Since this is not BG then hpe is fine and Tobi wins.

Feats.. He loses because he has nothig atm.

[Mekuto]

Tobirama has the ability to pull water out of the atmosphere that is the greatest control over water we've heard of.
Edo Tensei
Time/Space Jutsu
Renowned Taijutsu fighter
Tsunade struck the ground to cause that effect Tobirama tapped his finger on his arm to produce a similar effect.

I know you hate Tobirama, but come on don't neglect facts.

[Andrew Namikaze]

Prince of Peace, Kindly choose one thread to hate on tobirama and provide us a link so we can ignore it accordingly.
May you please follow his orders.

[Divine Rush]

the poll says everything * bows to the poll*

[Andrew Namikaze]

*Chants*Tobirama!!x2947856295762

[Divine Rush]

Tobirama has the ability to pull water out of the atmosphere that is the greatest control over water we've heard of.
Edo Tensei
Time/Space Jutsu
Renowned Taijutsu fighter
Tsunade struck the ground to cause that effect Tobirama tapped his finger on his arm to produce a similar effect.

I know you hate Tobirama, but come on don't neglect facts.
this is a really good point right here

[Andrew Namikaze]

Tobirama has the ability to pull water out of the atmosphere that is the greatest control over water we've heard of.
Edo Tensei
Time/Space Jutsu
Renowned Taijutsu fighter
Tsunade struck the ground to cause that effect Tobirama tapped his finger on his arm to produce a similar effect.

I know you hate Tobirama, but come on don't neglect facts.
Thats a extremly good point.

[PrinceofPeace]

the 2nd was scared shitless of the first. he wouldn't be able to touch harishma much less injury him. also everyone's saying tsunades very weak because she loses all her fights. well look at her oppenets. Nagato who could kill almost anyone in the naruto universe. edo madara, do i even have to explain this one. orchimaru. this guy took on two sannin with out arms this guy is a beast all though severely underrated after being beaten by sasuke.
thank you once again. See your not a tobirama hater like I you just know what's what`@x)

Yeah Exactly thank you Aeo. As far as I seen no one has almost crushed a building by tighting his fists alittle. In a fight 2nd could have dealt with Tsunade. Not saying that shes weak shes pretty strong just not as strong as Tobirama.
So your Kakashi, Guy, Madara, Guy, Naruto, Onoki, Ay, Kabuto has not tighten'd his fist to destroy a building...so are you saying Tobirama is stronger

Please do not use TObirama.... Pop you should know this bettwe then anyone.. Hype he is WAY stronger then Slug Girl

Feats nothing atm... So stop using Tobi.
lol when did I disagree with that:|
his hype still does not beat Kataysu or kill someone with her level of tanking feats

yeah she might have beat naruto then but he could probley take her now where he is now and the 2nd has more than just water moves he is a great shinobi he has way more knowledge of the shinobi world then tsunade ever did
lol you do realize barely anyone could take Naruto right? Why are you comparing her to people that not even Tobirama can beat?
Lol so if he has more than just water ninjutsu than name it. He has no time and its OOC to use ET and using his kinjutsu is useless against kataysu

Prince of Peace, Kindly choose one thread to hate on tobirama and provide us a link so we can ignore it accordingly.
lol OR OR OR you could prove me wrong instead of just calling me a hater`;)

The 2nd could only be beaten by 1st and Madara. Other than that, the closest to him is Naruto which I think could beat him if hr tried really hard.
`:shock:
please please PLEASE explain yourself

Since this is not BG then hpe is fine and Tobi wins.

Feats.. He loses because he has nothig atm.
yes yes yes....so how does his hype beat Tsuande?

Tobirama has the ability to pull water out of the atmosphere that is the greatest control over water we've heard of.
Kisame says hello
Edo Tensei
which takes prep and its OOC for him to use
Time/Space Jutsu
which is basically unknown. He did not shown much. All we know is that its lower than Minato and Tobi's level. which is not saying much.
Renowned Taijutsu fighter
lol if he gets close to Tsuande its OVER
Tsunade struck the ground to cause that effect Tobirama tapped his finger on his arm to produce a similar effect.

I know you hate Tobirama, but come on don't neglect facts.
what facts did I neglect? I DO NOT HATE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!b#(

[Shisko Shi]

Frm what he is knonw.

First this isn't BG It is a voting poll.

Second, Hyoe he beats, as Mekudo stated. But... But he has no feats.

I know you never said but you should not even argue with feats. Or I hope you are not.

[Divine Rush]

prince mekuto was just saying he has more than just water jutsus

[PrinceofPeace]

I'm not

but he does not have much without water style.
If he gets close to use kinjutsu or taijutsu he just gets punched or Kataysu spits acid

And we do not know his space time ninjutsu

ANd he would not and have not seen him use edo and its OOC cuz its evil and it takes prep

[Shisko Shi]

*Sigh* Endo Summons Hashi, Madara, And Nagato. GG. There see I used hype. that is what he means.

[Mekuto]

Tobirama has the ability to pull water out of the atmosphere that is the greatest control over water we've heard of.
Kisame says hello
When Kisame pulls water out of thin air come talk to me.
Edo Tensei
which takes prep and its OOC for him to use
Doesn't mean it's not an incredibly powerful technique.
Time/Space Jutsu
which is basically unknown. He did not shown much. All we know is that its lower than Minato and Tobi's level. which is not saying much.
We know it doesn't take a seal, can be used while attacking
Renowned Taijutsu fighter
lol if he gets close to Tsuande its OVER
Taijutsu and Time/Space Jutsu skill means she's not hitting him.
Four separate threads where you completely down play everything about Tobirama, at least one of those had nothing to do with Tobirama. You hatin son, don't be lyin bout your hatin.

[Andrew Namikaze]

Theres no arguement tobirama is just better.

[PrinceofPeace]

*Sigh* Endo Summons Hashi, Madara, And Nagato. GG. There see I used hype. that is what he means.
ok so Tsuande is just going to sit there and wait for Tobirama to get all of that DNA and do the required prep;)
Plus Kabuto and Oro improved it from what Tobirama had so he would not be able to do it on that level. Tobirama would not have as good as control or as well or with as multiple people. You can use hype but Oro and Kabuto stated and proved that their ET was way better. Facts>Hype

Tobirama has the ability to pull water out of the atmosphere that is the greatest control over water we've heard of.
Kisame says hello
When Kisame pulls water out of thin air come talk to me.
So spitting water out of your mouth is not as good as taking it out of thin airb:|
Even though Kisame created a lot more water
Edo Tensei
which takes prep and its OOC for him to use
Doesn't mean it's not an incredibly powerful technique.
okay great job Tobirama. You created the most sinisted jutsu in all the world that was not needed to be created and you cant even use that jutsu in battle and your the WORST one who can use it

Time/Space Jutsu
which is basically unknown. He did not shown much. All we know is that its lower than Minato and Tobi's level. which is not saying much.
We know it doesn't take a seal, can be used while attacking
you know kataysu acid does not take a seal right. And a punch does not take a seal either. Just saying : Tsuane has been keeping up with Madara wood clone Sussano .
But that is besides the point. Did you notice that Tobirama did not land a vital hit on izuna? if he was soo fast and soo good than he could have just gone for the head shot. So if Tobirama hit the same spot Tobirama hit Izuna in then it would barely do anything to Tsuande.
Keep in mind Tsuande tanked a sword from Oro AND MADARA"s SUSSANOO`<3
Renowned Taijutsu fighter
lol if he gets close to Tsuande its OVER
Taijutsu and Time/Space Jutsu skill means she's not hitting him.
acid will though. Lol and you dont even know his S/T. And if he is close enough to use tai or kin than that is even MORE likely for Tobirama to get hit

Four separate threads where you completely down play everything about Tobirama, at least one of those had nothing to do with Tobirama. You hatin son, don't be lyin bout your hatin.
If i was a hatter I would have addmitted it by now. I am just telling you who he REALLY is instead of wanking him b:)

Theres no arguement tobirama is just better.
see I dont have an issue with Tobirama....
IT'S WITH WANKERS!!b#(

[AeoKyn]

You turned a poll into a hate thread, deja vu anyone?
I can't be the only one experiencing this.
And @prince
I am not playing an endless game of repetition with you,
so I say good day sir.

[Mekuto]

Yeah any mook can make water from the ground Tobirama actually uses water from the molecular level.

As we've seen prep once use whenever Edo Tensei regardless of how it is used it is a incredibly powerful technique

Lol acid and punches don't warp time and space. Madara was toying with her and Oro was aiming for Naruto. Yeah she's strong thing is Tobirama could take her head off and she can't target him effectively since HE CAN BEND TIME AND SPACE. Reason he didn't take Izuna's head, Kishimoto.

Tobirama showed pure power beyond what we know Tsuande could do, just by lifting his fingers. Stop thinking so little of him.
This isn't a BG I'm hoping to see some Kage combat then we can make that thread.

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah any mook can make water from the ground Tobirama actually uses water from the molecular level.
and I give him props for that.
But kisame did not make it from the grous he spit it out.... Just saying
As we've seen prep once use whenever Edo Tensei regardless of how it is used it is a incredibly powerful technique
yes I agree but tobirama would not be able to use it in battle due to prep plus oro stood still in the same spot when the edos were active and since oro improved it the edos would be at a Lowe level. The slug would just spit acid on them. My point is that he can not use it in battle without prep and its not in his character to use such an evil jutsu
Lol acid and punches don't warp time and space. Madara was toying with her and Oro was aiming for Naruto. Yeah she's strong thing is Tobirama could take her head off and she can't target him effectively since HE CAN BEND TIME AND SPACE. Reason he didn't take Izuna's head, Kishimoto.
lol you can't say cuz it's kishi cuz you can't explain your not kishi
Yeah obivously punches an acid does not do that. >.>
As long as tsuande keeps her distance in yin mode while katatsyu spams acid then tobirama is not hitting her
Tobirama showed pure power beyond what we know Tsuande could do, just by lifting his fingers. Stop thinking so little of him.
This isn't a BG I'm hoping to see some Kage combat then we can make that thread.
er mer gerd

For the last time I know it's not the BG!! Why are you telling me this. Again just because he can lift a finger and cause damage does not mean he is stronger

By that logic that means naruto, butterfly mode choji, Kakashi and onoki and Ay are weaker than tobirama
You turned a poll into a hate thread, deja vu anyone?
I can't be the only one experiencing this.
And @prince
I am not playing an endless game of repetition with you,
so I say good day sir.
Funny how you did not call it a hate theead wen tobirama was winning!
And the thread was a request an I made it. It's not like I can up with te idea. Mailing the poll just made it more organized

[Mekuto]

For posterity fighting team Guy I'm pretty sure he spit it up, but against Bee it came from the ground.

Edo Tensei is still an incredible technique and if I had to choose between resurrected ninjas that can't die or a slug I'm going with the ninjas. As a second point slug summon and Edo Tensei both take time.

When I said that Tobirama didn't take his head off because of Kishimoto, it is because of the one dying line of Don't trust the Senju that Izuma said. You would think that would be obvious.

Lifting a finger and effecting the area around him does mean he is undeniably strong.
Other than Naruto I actually lean toward Tobirama in those fights.

[AeoKyn]

er mer gerd

For the last time I know it's not the BG!! Why are you telling me this. Again just because he can lift a finger and cause damage does not mean he is stronger

By that logic that means naruto, butterfly mode choji, Kakashi and onoki and Ay are weaker than tobirama

Funny how you did not call it a hate theead wen tobirama was winning!
And the thread was a request an I made it. It's not like I can up with te idea. Mailing the poll just made it more organized
Because your hate rants began about 3 pages in.
Go back and read it, you be hatin bra.
And Izuna died from that attack from tobirama later that day,
residual damage yo.
...In all honesty, those threads were pure rant and the same one to boot across what was it, four of them? As for thread topic, worst hokage is tough to say, tsunade did catch some flack for constantly falling behind on paperwork.

[PrinceofPeace]

For posterity fighting team Guy I'm pretty sure he spit it up, but against Bee it came from the ground.
no ....it was still from his mouth. HIs cheecks got big and he spit it out. Go check the chp if you dont blieve me thoug but im 99% sure im right :cool:

Edo Tensei is still an incredible technique and if I had to choose between resurrected ninjas that can't die or a slug I'm going with the ninjas. As a second point slug summon and Edo Tensei both take time.
lol alright
Slug summon-draw blod then slam your hand against the ground

Edo Tensi-find some DNA find someone to be the sacrifice then do the hand seal/ritual. Wait for the change to occur. Then put the seal in him.

Dude ET takes WAYYYY more time than slug summon.
Yes ET is very strong but it is sinsiter and is being used against Tobirama himself

Honestly I would rather have a slug because it can heal me and it is kind. It can also heal others. And ET is PURE EVIL!! yeah ET is stronger but that is not my Nindob!:)

When I said that Tobirama didn't take his head off because of Kishimoto, it is because of the one dying line of Don't trust the Senju that Izuma said. You would think that would be obvious.
ight lets say tobirama could take Tusande's head off....so what?
She would just keep her distance and let Kataysu do the acid spitting

Lifting a finger and effecting the area around him does mean he is undeniably strong.
Other than Naruto I actually lean toward Tobirama in those fights.
lol are you serious? Either way I still proved your theory wrong. Naruto did not do what Tobirama did yet Naruto is stronger.
Lol what about Itachi or Kakazu or Kisame or Nagato or Tobi or Kabuto or Dediara or Muu or 3RK or 2MK or Sasori. They did not do what Tobirama did but they are all stronger than him.


Because your hate rants began about 3 pages in.
Go back and read it, you be hatin bra.
Do you even know what hatting is? If I was hating than I owould be using false info or spreading lies or making fun of him for something that can not be made fun of
And Izuna died from that attack from tobirama later that day,
residual damage yo.
:roll:Oh my gosh . You totally took that out of context. I know he died but I was saying that Tsuande could surivie it. Seriously dude:roll:
...In all honesty, those threads were pure rant and the same one to boot across what was it, four of them? As for thread topic, worst hokage is tough to say, tsunade did catch some flack for constantly falling behind on paperwork.
If anyone your wanking more than I am "hating".
When I talk to you guys most of your info is wrong and you assume and make up info to fill in the blanks to support Tobirama.
Lolz at your logic

[AeoKyn]

If anyone your wanking more than I am "hating".
When I talk to you guys most of your info is wrong and you assume and make up info to fill in the blanks to support Tobirama.
Lolz at your logic Again, 4 threads discussing this. No need to make a 5th.
Especially in an opinion based poll, where you have no hand in how someone else looks at, views and uses information for purposes of making their own decision. Wrong or right, things you cannot prove matter not, this is not a battle ground, this is an opinion based poll where people draw their own conclusions from either points or suggestions taken from the Manga, not a "I'm right, what is wrong with you people" thread.

There's not alot of negativity surrounding Tsunade's role. Her only real issue which may not even be canon is that she could be lazy at times and took her time making decisions which the latter is not really a bad quality.

[PrinceofPeace]

Dude you said that Shishi was in the ANBU....LIES!
i'm 99% sure it was you and I will confirm it with you if I must

I repeat my points cuz your repeat yours.

Lol you come at my logic when yours is wayyy worse! Your logic is that if it did not happen in the manga then I can put my 2sense in and decide what happens. That is called ASSUMING

Plus some other Tobirama wankers are so desperate to prove themseleves right that they call people liars without any proof against them. Just because someone lies once or twice does not mean they lie about everything

You see how I give examples of how your mistaken instead of saying words like you. If you have an issue PROVE those issues. Dont just say i have bad logic if its bad then prove it or show why then just say so.

[AeoKyn]

Tobirama wanker sounds like hate to me.
Been done. I called repetition of position.
And yes, I was the one who said that, based solely on his attire, which after rereading is a standard uchiha outfit not an anbu outfit.
Again, there are 4 threads to do this in, all of which I have casually left because of
RoP.

[PrinceofPeace]

who is ROP? ;) jk

I only repeat because you reiterate the same thing

But at least we came to conclusion:

Tobirama had good intentions to handle the Uchiha but he did it the wrong way

[Mekuto]

Lol Edo from it's base is a long time, but so is the slug seeing as you have to get the contract from where ever slugs keep theirs. But once both techniques have been used once it is easy to reuse.

Lol we aren't discussing who would win, but your plan involves hitting a guy who can teleport and Tsuande keeping her distance. Brilliant

This isn't a battle ground and since we haven't seen any of them fight him stop assuming. All I'm saying is that you can't deny that Tobirama is strong.

[Shisko Shi]

TObi needs no prep because this is not BG. This is a poll. Move it if that is what you want. YOu never said they are fighting or they did or did not get prepy.

[PrinceofPeace]

Lol Edo from it's base is a long time, but so is the slug seeing as you have to get the contract from where ever slugs keep theirs. But once both techniques have been used once it is easy to reuse.
Tsuande already has the contract to the slugs. She has ever since we first saw her in the manga. he carries it around with her. Its life bounded. What are you talking about dude?

Lol we aren't discussing who would win, but your plan involves hitting a guy who can teleport and Tsuande keeping her distance. Brilliant
:geek:I know:geek:

This isn't a battle ground and since we haven't seen any of them fight him stop assuming.
lol I'm not assuing. I am just going by what we know. Your assuming he is way stronger. Do you know what assuming is lolz? Cuz that is what your doing. You assuming that just because he is a senju and has hokage status that he is so strong. From what we have seen as he edo he is not that strong to take Tsuande. I am just going by what we have seen which is NOT assuming.
All I'm saying is that you can't deny that Tobirama is strong.
Never denied that.b:)
But all I am saying is just because Tobirama can do one thing nobody else did does not make him stronger

read the OP I am not trying to make this battlegrounds. I am just saying who is better OVERALL!

TObi needs no prep because this is not BG.
BG or not he still needs time to use it:|
Plus we have not seen him use it.
All we know is that he can not use it as well as Kabuto or Orochimaru
With that in mind Tobirama's ET was imperfect.
Tobirama would have to stand still while the jutsu is in use
Tobirama would have poor control of the jutsu
Tobirama could not control as many people
Plus Tobirama never used it in battle. Even he knows it is sinister and powerful.
Plus unlike Orochimaru TObirama does not carry DNA of some of the most powerful shinobi in the world around with him in his pocket:mrgreen:
This is a poll. Move it if that is what you want. YOu never said they are fighting or they did or did not get prepy.
STOP MAKING EVERYTHING A BG

All I am saying is who is better OVERALL! like leadership and power e.t.c

I say Tsuande
-------------------------------------------
Good Tsuande

-She helped build the Leaf village TWICE!

-She took leadership of the Leaf even though she had a tramtic experience with the leaf. She came back and refused Oro's deal.

-She gave naruto the 1st Hokage's necklace which helped Naruto keep the kyubbi in check with the help of Yamato. Plus wihtout her motivation for Naruto to master the rasegan quickly then Naruto and Tsuande would be dead

-She healed vital characters such as Lee and Kakashi

-She trained Sakura and without that training than Sasori would still be alive

-She believed in Naruto and had faith in him to be free and go out of the village even though the adivsors thought otherwise

-She protected/healed her people during the Pain Invasion instead of fighting him (which was the smarter and more Hokage thing to do)

-She sent Shikamaru with his squad to save Saskue and sent the Sand siblings as well

-She made peace with Suna
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad Tobirama

Tobirama could not even make peace with Kumo

Tobirama created ET which is OVERALL BAD

Tobirama did not believe in the Uchiha which is what started the distrust

Tobirama elected Hiruzen as hokage wihtout democracy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good Tobirama

Tobirama did establish SOME vital parts of the village like the chunnin exams and ANBU. (the rest I do not give him credit for because Hashirama had the academy idea and its easy to establish things after Hashirama started it and made it. That is like coming up with an idea to do something and telling someone how to do it and then that someone does it. It is not as impressive and could not have been done without both parties)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad Tsuande

-is a drunk gambler who hates doing paper work (but that has not effect the village very much)
----------------------------------------------------------------------


And as for a battle...kataysu spits acid

[Shisko Shi]

Tobi is better imo. this is not bg.





































XD I love doing that to you.

[konoha chimp]

When you look at this logically neither of these of the worst Hokage..
All fanboyism aside it's Minato whose the 'worst' as the Hokage as he's done the least for it

[Andrew Namikaze]

Noo you just said Minato was the worst when he saved the village from Tobi and the Nine-Tails.

[Mekuto]

Noo you just said Minato was the worst when he saved the village from Tobi and the Nine-Tails.
Can't say he did anything else though.

[PrinceofPeace]

When you look at this logically neither of these of the worst Hokage..
All fanboyism aside it's Minato whose the 'worst' as the Hokage as he's done the least for it

I can actually agree with that. I think I created this Poll before Naruto met his mom

But yeah Minato had the shortest reign and only did 1 thing for his villagebut Tobirama is a close 2nd

[Andrew Namikaze]

Yeah he did die early but he is the only other hokage that actullay saved the village, except Third. Tsunade wasnt able to fight Pain and the 2nd never nad to fight someone during his reign.

[Shisko Shi]

Hmm... Yea Minato is the only actual savior imo. He took his life for the village and his son.

[konoha chimp]

Yeah but that doesn't make him the best Hokage :L he did the least for the village

[PrinceofPeace]

Yeah he did die early but he is the only other hokage that actullay saved the village, except Third. Tsunade wasnt able to fight Pain and the 2nd never nad to fight someone during his reign.
Tobirama died saving the village from danger. Tobirama fought kumo
Oh im sorry. Tsuande was too busy healing and saving her villagers lives which was the REAL duty of the hokage

Hmm... Yea Minato is the only actual savior imo. He took his life for the village and his son.
Tobirama died for his village and the people with him were his diciples
^me acting like SS^

Yeah but that doesn't make him the best Hokage :L he did the least for the village
agrees

[AeoKyn]

Tsunade's intentions were great,
but nagato kind of negated the whole point of it
and she went comatose for no reason.
But it's the thought that counts.

[Andrew Namikaze]

Okay im sorry but im pretty sure the nine-tails is a bigger threat than Pain, and Kumo, and he caused Naruto to be born.

[PrinceofPeace]

Tsunade's intentions were great,
but nagato kind of negated the whole point of it
and she went comatose for no reason.
But it's the thought that counts.
she did not know that he had that kind of power. And it would be stupid to go up against a foe like that with limited knowledge. Tsuande did what she was good at which was healing. And dont act like Tobirama could have done any better.

oh yeah she went comatose for no reason at all. Its not like she was healing everyone at once or anythingb:|

seriously you say I down play Tobirama but you get your info wrong and hate on others and downplay waht they do.

[Andrew Namikaze]

Minato still is one of the best hokages

[PrinceofPeace]

he didnt do much though. Just one thing practially every hokage faces at a time.

He obviously did not have that much love if people could not hate on his son so hard.

[Andrew Namikaze]

Only certain people knew that Minato had a son so thats they hated Naruto. And if it wasnt for Minato most likely there wouldnt be a Leaf Village anymore, and there was they would still be rebuilding.

[Shisko Shi]

Tobirama died for his village and the people with him were his diciples
^me acting like SS^


Why act like me? You can not be me as I am the God of the Forum... You will be sent to Forum Hell. Pink will judge you for all of user time.

Anyways. That was my Opinion on Minato.

Tobi died young did he not?

This might solve it. If you wish to make your self right. Make a post like this.



Tsunada -

deed 1

deed 2

ect.
-------------
Tobirama -

deed 1

deed 2

ect..

THis will get your point across a lot better.

The way to win an argument with better odds is to win them with favor or kindness.

No one likes a dick of a debater. But they can get them, but not as well.

Not saying you are, but this is what would help your argument Pop.

[PrinceofPeace]

Only certain people knew that Minato had a son so thats they hated Naruto.
wow good point.`:)
And if it wasnt for Minato most likely there wouldnt be a Leaf Village anymore, and there was they would still be rebuilding.
Without Hashirama there would be no leaf
Wihtout Hiruzen there would be no leaf

Without tobirama.... i suppose the leaf would still be there. I mean the kumo threat was not THAT big. It was not even all of kumo just a part. I mean someone else could have done what he did.

Without Tsuande.... well she did help rebuild the village twice. So somebody else could have done waht she did. But If I had to choose there would be NO leaf without Tsuande cuz she let naruto go free and be strong and did not listen to the advisors.

Why act like me? You can not be me as I am the God of the Forum... You will be sent to Forum Hell. Pink will judge you for all of user time.
b:shock:
Just dont forget who killed you in the RP....do I need to call Ramsaur:lol:
lolz jk

Anyways. That was my Opinion on Minato.
respected

Tobirama died young did he not?
I would say middle age

This might solve it. If you wish to make your self right. Make a post like this.



Tsunada -

deed 1

deed 2

ect.
-------------
Tobirama -

deed 1

deed 2

ect..

THis will get your point across a lot better.
didnt I just do that like 2 post ago`~(

The way to win an argument with better odds is to win them with favor or kindness.

No one likes a dick of a debater. But they can get them, but not as well.

Not saying you are, but this is what would help your argument Pop.
`o.o" lol I JUST did that:cry:

[PrinceofPeace]

read the OP I am not trying to make this battlegrounds. I am just saying who is better OVERALL!


STOP MAKING EVERYTHING A BG

All I am saying is who is better OVERALL! like leadership and power e.t.c

I say Tsuande
-------------------------------------------
Good Tsuande

-She helped build the Leaf village TWICE!

-She took leadership of the Leaf even though she had a tramtic experience with the leaf. She came back and refused Oro's deal.

-She gave naruto the 1st Hokage's necklace which helped Naruto keep the kyubbi in check with the help of Yamato. Plus wihtout her motivation for Naruto to master the rasegan quickly then Naruto and Tsuande would be dead

-She healed vital characters such as Lee and Kakashi

-She trained Sakura and without that training than Sasori would still be alive

-She believed in Naruto and had faith in him to be free and go out of the village even though the adivsors thought otherwise

-She protected/healed her people during the Pain Invasion instead of fighting him (which was the smarter and more Hokage thing to do)

-She sent Shikamaru with his squad to save Saskue and sent the Sand siblings as well

-She made peace with Suna
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad Tobirama

Tobirama could not even make peace with Kumo

Tobirama created ET which is OVERALL BAD

Tobirama did not believe in the Uchiha which is what started the distrust

Tobirama elected Hiruzen as hokage wihtout democracy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good Tobirama

Tobirama did establish SOME vital parts of the village like the chunnin exams and ANBU. (the rest I do not give him credit for because Hashirama had the academy idea and its easy to establish things after Hashirama started it and made it. That is like coming up with an idea to do something and telling someone how to do it and then that someone does it. It is not as impressive and could not have been done without both parties)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad Tsuande

-is a drunk gambler who hates doing paper work (but that has not effect the village very much)
----------------------------------------------------------------------


And as for a battle...kataysu spits acid

Isn't this what you meant SS?

[AeoKyn]

she did not know that he had that kind of power. And it would be stupid to go up against a foe like that with limited knowledge. Tsuande did what she was good at which was healing. And dont act like Tobirama could have done any better.

oh yeah she went comatose for no reason at all. Its not like she was healing everyone at once or anythingb:|

seriously you say I down play Tobirama but you get your info wrong and hate on others and downplay waht they do.
You sir need to calm down.
I'm saying a good deal of her efforts and good intentions were wasted because nagato restored life to everyone he killed. This comment has no bearing on her worth whatsoever, nor am I using it to try and discount her.

[PrinceofPeace]

You sir need to calm down.
I'm saying a good deal of her efforts and good intentions were wasted because nagato restored life to everyone he killed. This comment has no bearing on her worth whatsoever, nor am I using it to try and discount her.

But she did not know Nagato was going to do that. Lol enemy ressurecting the lives of the leaf was literally one of the LAST things on te readers much less Tsuande's mind.

her slugs did spread info to Naruto. Cant discount that and it is VITAL worth.

So yes I agree it was downplayed....but she still did something

[Kananda]

Tobirama was a master at water jutsus since he could use high level water attacks without water. He also used that darkness technique against the third and created the reanimation technique. If anything, he is the Hokage with the most up his sleeve.

Tsunade is the best medical ninja of all time and has the most strength (even more than the Raikage when shown arm wrestling). She couldn't do anything against Pain because she was already exhausted from excessive chakra use.

They are all useful in different ways. Look at the Third and try to match him up against these old broken Kage's abilities, even though he was praised as the god of all ninja and strongest Kage of his time.

[Mekuto]

Tobirama was a master at water jutsus since he could use high level water attacks without water. He also used that darkness technique against the third and created the reanimation technique. If anything, he is the Hokage with the most up his sleeve.

Tsunade is the best medical ninja of all time and has the most strength (even more than the Raikage when shown arm wrestling). She couldn't do anything against Pain because she was already exhausted from excessive chakra use.

They are all useful in different ways. Look at the Third and try to match him up against these old broken Kage's abilities, even though he was praised as the god of all ninja and strongest Kage of his time.
In the manga the darkness technique was used by the Hashirama. I do agree that he had a lot up his sleeve, the first known time/space jutsu and the resurrection user, he is certainly just as resourceful of a ninja as Minamoto.

I'm not a fan of this thread, because it is comparing diamonds, some are better than others, but none are bad.

[ThE_OuTkAsT]

I said Tobirama. I feel like Tsunade is just a victim of circumstance. (Past Hogake's & the Village's decisions.)

[PrinceofPeace]

Tobirama was a master at water jutsus since he could use high level water attacks without water.
agreed
He also used that darkness technique against the third
no he can not that was anime not the manga.
and created the reanimation technique.
I would not brag about that if I was him
If anything, he is the Hokage with the most up his sleeve.
lol how so?

Tsunade is the best medical ninja of all time and has the most strength (even more than the Raikage when shown arm wrestling). She couldn't do anything against Pain because she was already exhausted from excessive chakra use.
agreed

They are all useful in different ways. Look at the Third and try to match him up against these old broken Kage's abilities, even though he was praised as the god of all ninja and strongest Kage of his time
agreed
.

In the manga the darkness technique was used by the Hashirama. I do agree that he had a lot up his sleeve, the first known time/space jutsu and the resurrection user, he is certainly just as resourceful of a ninja as Minamoto.
Oh yeah the unknown S/T ninjutsu good point that is something up his sleeve. But the most hokage with som ething up his sleeve is Hiruzen because he has the most hype

I'm not a fan of this thread, because it is comparing diamonds, some are better than others, but none are bad.

Some look like diamonds when they are poo...LOL JK`:P

[Godaime Kazekage]

Man, this entire thread is stupid. It's clear to everyone that you have a vendetta against Tobirama and want other people to support your idea that Tobirama was a "bad" Hokage. None of them were bad-they all cared about the village and did what they thought was necessary to protect it.

If you really want my opinion on who were the "worst" Hokages it would probably be Hiruzen and Hashirama, who aren't on this poll. They both let personal feelings get in the way of their duty to protect the village which caused it to be destroyed multiple times. Hiruzen let Orochimaru get away and we all know how that turned out (he also allowed the Uchiha rebellion to progress as far as it did and then sat by as the Uchiha Clan massacre occured). Hashirama let his boyfriend get away and couldn't finish the job when he finally resolved himself to killing Madara (how hard is it to check a pulse ;)). This led to most of the tragedies in the Narutoverse including the Ninetails attack on Konoha, the formation of Akatsuki as a terrorist organization, the Bloody Mist, the Destruction of Konoha (and later Kumo), and the 4th Ninja World War.

On the other hand, Minato, who you deign as the "worst" Hokage, solely because he had the shortest reign, gave up everything for the village including his life and his son's happy childhood, which was obviously difficult for him, as we've seen how much he and Kushina loved Naruto. Your idol, Hashirama, on the other hand; despite having God-like powers allowed Madara to attack the village multiple times just because he couldn't dispose of his friend.

[PrinceofPeace]

I HAVENO VENDETTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMHO-he is not the greatest hokage

Seriously why would I hate on him randomly. That's just silly just to pick an hokage and hate on him for no reason.

Yes tobirama cared about his village and tried to protect it. I never said othwise. But he is the worst of the best. It's not like I think he is the weakest or dumbest of everyone but the competition of hokages is elite. He is just the weakest link. If it was a race it would be a photo finish but tobirama would finish last.

I get what you mean about hiruzen but I don't agree about HASHIRAMA.
You were kidding right????
Do you really expect someone to check the pulse of a guy who was just stabbed with a sword?!?!
When has anyone in narutoverse checked the pulse after a blast like that?
Plus you do realize if HASHIRAMA killed his "boyfriend" earlier than the leaf village would never have been formed

Any hokage would have done what minato did. They were all prepared to pay heir life down for the village. They put the village first and everything else second. I mean come on HASHIRAMA sealed that beast in his wife and killed his "boyfriend" to save the village

I don't dislike minato just because his short reign but the fact that he did not do much besides saving the leaf whih is a common task for a hokage. Not to mention the people who wank him

[Godaime Kazekage]

I HAVENO VENDETTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMHO-he is not the greatest hokage

Seriously why would I hate on him randomly. That's just silly just to pick an hokage and hate on him for no reason.

Yes tobirama cared about his village and tried to protect it. I never said othwise. But he is the worst of the best. It's not like I think he is the weakest or dumbest of everyone but the competition of hokages is elite. He is just the weakest link. If it was a race it would be a photo finish but tobirama would finish last.

I get what you mean about hiruzen but I don't agree about HASHIRAMA.
You were kidding right????
Do you really expect someone to check the pulse of a guy who was just stabbed with a sword?!?!
When has anyone in narutoverse checked the pulse after a blast like that?
Plus you do realize if HASHIRAMA killed his "boyfriend" earlier than the leaf village would never have been formed

Any hokage would have done what minato did. They were all prepared to pay heir life down for the village. They put the village first and everything else second. I mean come on HASHIRAMA sealed that beast in his wife and killed his "boyfriend" to save the village

I don't dislike minato just because his short reign but the fact that he did not do much besides saving the leaf whih is a common task for a hokage. Not to mention the people who wank him

That's kind of funny as I'm sure you know Hashirama is probably the most wanked character on this entire forum. Check out any BG thread with him in it-;)

What I'm saying is Minato wasn't just prepared to lay down his life-he actually did it, and not only that, he took away the happy childhood from the person he loved the most in the world-his son. He did it all for the village (and in a lesser sense global political order). He put the village before his own personal feelings-something Hashirama could not do (at least not for a very long time)

By contrast Hashirama put Madara on the same level as the village as he allowed him to attack the village multiple times before he finally got the guts to finish things. (It says in the latest chapter that Madara attacked the Leaf lots of times before the Valley of the End fight). This is putting aside the fact that this all could have been prevented long ago if he listened to Tobirama-and don't give me the BS that the village couldn't have been established without Madara-yes, it made sense that Hashirama wanted to make an alliance with Madara since he felt he could work with him, but the Uchiha were already starting to give in to the Senju and the shinobi world in general wanted the fighting to stop.

Minato just wasn't Hokage long enough to do a lot of the things other character's did and it's not his fault that he can't do things like establishing the Leaf and its infrastructure since they were completed before he was born. Thus we have to evaluate the things he did when he was Hokage, which was pretty stellar and why he was revered by all of the people in the village whereas they had all essentially forgotten who Hashirama and Tobirama even were (that has to do with time as well, but still Hashirama and Tobirama didn't live that long ago-don't they teach History in Konoha? :lol:)

Also-Madara was not "blown away" as he obviously survived the attack and was just stabbed in the chest. Maybe if he had been blown into a hundred pieces it would be okay to not check if he was really dead.
And Mito was the one who sealed the Kyuubi within herself, not Hashirama-don't attribute things to him which he didn't do (Naruto female characters don't get enough respect as is)-it's kind of sad that Kishi pretty much forgot that Mito was involved in the fight as well.

Also, lol at trying to weigh sealing the Kyuubi into Mito against sealing it into Naruto. Mito was a consenting adult who chose to do it herself. Nobody died and she had a loving family. In order to seal Kurama into Naruto, Minato had to die which would mean Naruto would lose both of his parents and would be ostracized and hated as a Jinchuriki with no one there for him.

[PrinceofPeace]

Believe me I know. But I liked him way before the wank. I personally like him. But the wanking has made me like him less and less. But people are walking tobirama who is mostly hype.

Hashirama did it when it was needed. Like I said if he killed madara earlier than the village would never had been created. The thing I like most about hashirama and deserves respect is that he does not resort to violence right away. Every time madara made an obvious threat and total disrespect hashirama went to fight him 1v1 and defeated him. And as we all know hashirama finished him off when then the time was right. Unlike minato he barely knew his son but hashirama had history with madara. They grew up and went through so much together. Overall hashirama was strong enough that he was not in the position that minato was. Hashirama single handidly took care of the threat to his village while minato needed help. They were both in totally different situations but hashirama took care of his. Plus neither you nor I can say if hashirama was in the same position as minato that he would or would not do the same as minato.

We have no info on the multiple fights they had. Hashirama could have let him go or madara could have escaped or they both tied. Regardless the village was unharmed and hashirama took care of the problem. You can not prove that the village would have been made without madara. Yes some uchiha were giving up but some would rebel and some would still fight. Plus madara and hashirama were the perfect Team. They were the strongest of their clans. If the hashirama killed him there would not be true peace.

All minato did was protect the village once...which is what every hokage does. Just because hashirama and tobirama created a lot does not mean there are no more improvements to be made.

So you don't have an example? So don't blame hashirama for checking the pulse. The stab was still a devastating blow. Most people would have not checked the pulse. Did I even say he was blown away?
Huh? When was it stated that she sealed it within herself?

The parents did not know he would be hated so harshly

[Raiden]

Believe me I know. But I liked him way before the wank. I personally like him. But the wanking has made me like him less and less. But people are walking tobirama who is mostly hype.

Hashirama did it when it was needed. Like I said if he killed madara earlier than the village would never had been created. The thing I like most about hashirama and deserves respect is that he does not resort to violence right away. Every time madara made an obvious threat and total disrespect hashirama went to fight him 1v1 and defeated him. And as we all know hashirama finished him off when then the time was right. Unlike minato he barely knew his son but hashirama had history with madara. They grew up and went through so much together. Overall hashirama was strong enough that he was not in the position that minato was. Hashirama single handidly took care of the threat to his village while minato needed help. They were both in totally different situations but hashirama took care of his. Plus neither you nor I can say if hashirama was in the same position as minato that he would or would not do the same as minato.

We have no info on the multiple fights they had. Hashirama could have let him go or madara could have escaped or they both tied. Regardless the village was unharmed and hashirama took care of the problem. You can not prove that the village would have been made without madara. Yes some uchiha were giving up but some would rebel and some would still fight. Plus madara and hashirama were the perfect Team. They were the strongest of their clans. If the hashirama killed him there would not be true peace.

All minato did was protect the village once...which is what every hokage does. Just because hashirama and tobirama created a lot does not mean there are no more improvements to be made.

So you don't have an example? So don't blame hashirama for checking the pulse. The stab was still a devastating blow. Most people would have not checked the pulse. Did I even say he was blown away?
Huh? When was it stated that she sealed it within herself?

The parents did not know he would be hated so harshly
Slow down, it was Stated that Madara did a few small attacks before H-rama decided to attack.

[PrinceofPeace]

.... Yeah and?

Nobody said differently

[Godaime Kazekage]

Believe me I know. But I liked him way before the wank. I personally like him. But the wanking has made me like him less and less. But people are walking tobirama who is mostly hype.

Hashirama did it when it was needed. Like I said if he killed madara earlier than the village would never had been created. The thing I like most about hashirama and deserves respect is that he does not resort to violence right away. Every time madara made an obvious threat and total disrespect hashirama went to fight him 1v1 and defeated him. And as we all know hashirama finished him off when then the time was right. Unlike minato he barely knew his son but hashirama had history with madara. They grew up and went through so much together. Overall hashirama was strong enough that he was not in the position that minato was. Hashirama single handidly took care of the threat to his village while minato needed help. They were both in totally different situations but hashirama took care of his. Plus neither you nor I can say if hashirama was in the same position as minato that he would or would not do the same as minato.

We have no info on the multiple fights they had. Hashirama could have let him go or madara could have escaped or they both tied. Regardless the village was unharmed and hashirama took care of the problem. You can not prove that the village would have been made without madara. Yes some uchiha were giving up but some would rebel and some would still fight. Plus madara and hashirama were the perfect Team. They were the strongest of their clans. If the hashirama killed him there would not be true peace.

All minato did was protect the village once...which is what every hokage does. Just because hashirama and tobirama created a lot does not mean there are no more improvements to be made.

So you don't have an example? So don't blame hashirama for checking the pulse. The stab was still a devastating blow. Most people would have not checked the pulse. Did I even say he was blown away?
Huh? When was it stated that she sealed it within herself?

The parents did not know he would be hated so harshly
The bolded parts are either assumptions or straight up wrong.

There's no evidence to support the village was completely unharmed in Madara's attacks and you would be a fool to think that someone of Madara's caliber wouldn't cause any damage in an attack. What Raiden and I are trying to say is that Hashirama didn't do what was needed when it was needed. Regardless of if it was a smart decision or not, it's understandable that he didn't kill Madara when Tobirama wanted to. However, after Madara leaves the village he attacks it several times, and Hashirama still can't deal with him. It's only near the end of their fight at the VotE that he decides to kill him (and fails). Too bad, so sad for anybody killed/injured in Madara's earlier attacks.

-I can't believe you would even suggest that it was easy for Minato to take away Naruto's future just because he "didn't know him yet". Try having a child before you make a statement like that again.

-Hashirama single-handedly "dealing" with the problem is irrelevant. What are the Konoha shinobi supposed to do while they're being attacked-run away? They pretty much just stalled until Minato arrived anyway. And you're right, we don't know if Hashirama would do the same if he was in Minato's position, but we do know that Minato put the village before his family, whereas Hashirama put the village behind Madara for a while (wanted Madara as Hokage despite the majority being against it, failed to deal with Madara immediately after he defected).

If Hashirama killed Madara they would make peace with the next leader of the Uchiha, since the Uchiha were beginning to defect and wanted peace anyway. Or they established the village without the Uchiha-yes it takes away the peaceful agreement part, but the safe haven for children blah, blah, blah would be the same.

Chapter 500 is where it is stated that Mito sealed Kurama within herself.

[Kananda]

Some points for Tobirama:

- He was the one who fatally wounded Izuna Uchiha

- He was a master at water type jutsu creating large masses from thin air,
isolate, recede and control it fully, all with one hand seals. He could even
manipulate water to pierce rocks and use the water to graple opponents.

- Tobirama invested on the code of conduct, creating a peaceful environment
for everyone and to reduce killing. He created laws.

- He had sensory abilities which far surpassed Harashima's

- Tobirama was about to kill Madara but then Harashima stopped him to make
peace, which completely backfired

- He established organizations such as the Academy, The ANBU, The Chuunin
exams, the Konoha police force.

- He was the only one trying to establish peace with the Uchiha's, giving them
the police headquarters and constantly trying to establish trust

- He faced Ginkaku and Kinkaku WITH the 9 tails powers and survived

- He trained Hiruzen and the two elders who are all respected

- Tobirama sacrificed himself to save the village and his comrades who were
with him

- He created the very first time/space jutsu and taught it to Uchiha Kagami
because he wanted a capable Uchiha to inherit the will of fire

- Tobirama was a realist who never let his emotions get in the way of his
duties, unlike Harashima. He even scolded Harashima several times and he
would normally listen to Tobirama.

- He surpassed Harashima in taijutsu

- He had a really powerful connection with the Earth, being able to crack it or
use it for his sensory abilities just by placing his fingers onto the ground
(he also sensed that Orochimaru's body was made from senju cells and could
sense what clan others are from)

- He could easily resist Orochimaru's reanimation technique if it hadn't been
for the senju cells to strengthen the technique

- He won against a Mangekyo sharingan user (Izuna) with his Flying thunder
god slash technique.

- He was a master at time/space ninjustu

- He invented most of Konoha's kinjutsu until he labelled them as kinjutsu.
Only Orochimaru continued his cancelled research so you can't blame him,
if anyone is to blame it's Hiruzen for letting Oro get away.. Tobirama would
have killed him right away even if it was his own apprentice.


For everyone saying that he couldn't even dispel his own technique, and that
Kinjutsu should never have created in the first place should look at these facts. Nobody in Tobirama's time would get away with practicing Kinjutsu and I'm sure he had no other choice but to develop the Reanimation technique, seeing as he needed it for information, not to fight.

[PrinceofPeace]

Gumps

[SageOfSixPath]

second because
if you don't read the manga you might not know that its basically because of the second that all of this war happened.

[Mekuto]

second because
if you don't read the manga you might not know that its basically because of the second that all of this war happened.
You are opening old wound, and sorry to say you are wrong. There are many factors for this war, but lets start fresh why do you think he caused it

[PrinceofPeace]

Some points for Tobirama:

- He was the one who fatally wounded Izuna Uchiha
true

- He was a master at water type jutsu creating large masses from thin air,
isolate, recede and control it fully, all with one hand seals.
true

He could even
manipulate water to pierce rocks and use the water to graple opponents.
...where did he do that?

- Tobirama invested on the code of conduct, creating a peaceful environment for everyone and to reduce killing. He created laws.
Not really. There was not peace in his reign. The kumo fought him and Tobirama wanted to kill Madara. He did create laws but he did not make it peaceful

- He had sensory abilities which far surpassed Harashima's
true...but does not have much to do with being a leader

- Tobirama was about to kill Madara but then Harashima stopped him to make
peace, which completely backfired
how so? Peace was made even if it was for a moment and the Leaf village was created. With Madara's death this would not be possible

- He established organizations such as the Academy, The ANBU, The Chuunin
exams, the Konoha police force.
The academy was Hashirama's idea. And the konoha police force was a weak excuse job given to Uchiha to keep them busy. If it was vital it would still be used.....the ANBU and Chunnin exams I give him credit for though

- He was the only one trying to establish peace with the Uchiha's, giving them
the police headquarters and constantly trying to establish trust
if he wanted peace he should have just trusted them and lived with them. He still had a gruge against the leaf

- He faced Ginkaku and Kinkaku WITH the 9 tails powers and survived
true

- He trained Hiruzen and the two elders who are all respected
Hashriama also trained Hiruzen....but Hiruzen was the wrost hokage but still strong. The elders are not respected by Tsuande. And if we listened to the elders than Naruto would be DEAD

- Tobirama sacrificed himself to save the village and his comrades who were
with him
which is standarad for Hokage

- He created the very first time/space jutsu and taught it to Uchiha Kagami
because he wanted a capable Uchiha to inherit the will of fire
False...
it was not the first S/T jutsu and Kagami has no S/T

- Tobirama was a realist who never let his emotions get in the way of his
duties, unlike Harashima. He even scolded Harashima several times and he
would normally listen to Tobirama.
Not when Hashirama was serious. Tobirama knows his place is LITERALLLY 2nd in charge.

- He surpassed Harashima in taijutsu
lol wut? how so?

- He had a really powerful connection with the Earth, being able to crack it or
he does not have a powerful connection cuz he cracked it

use it for his sensory abilities just by placing his fingers onto the ground
(he also sensed that Orochimaru's body was made from senju cells and could
sense what clan others are from)
true


- He could easily resist Orochimaru's reanimation technique if it hadn't been
for the senju cells to strengthen the technique
False! Oro could have controlled all of them if he did not let out their personailities.

- He won against a Mangekyo sharingan user (Izuna) with his Flying thunder
god slash technique.
true

- He was a master at time/space ninjustu
true

- He invented most of Konoha's kinjutsu until he labelled them as kinjutsu.
Only Orochimaru continued his cancelled research so you can't blame him,
if anyone is to blame it's Hiruzen for letting Oro get away.. Tobirama would
have killed him right away even if it was his own apprentice.
He only invented ONE kinjutsu
There is no excuse for Impure Ressurection!! What monster would do that in the first place. You do realize that someone must die EVERYTIME he uses it right? A sacrfice should not be used for a simple jutsu. And to awaken someone from the dead is unforgiveable as Kakashi calls it.
Tobirama should have never invented it. And he should have did a better job to make sure nobody got it


For everyone saying that he couldn't even dispel his own technique, and that
Kinjutsu should never have created in the first place should look at these facts. Nobody in Tobirama's time would get away with practicing Kinjutsu and I'm sure he had no other choice but to develop the Reanimation technique, seeing as he needed it for information, not to fight.

In yellow is YOUR assumption NOT fact

[PrinceofPeace]

The bolded parts are either assumptions or straight up wrong.

There's no evidence to support the village was completely unharmed in Madara's attacks and you would be a fool to think that someone of Madara's caliber wouldn't cause any damage in an attack.
In yellow is your assumption. You can not prove Madara did damage to the village and I can not prove he did not. So its not in the manga so it did not happen. Yes Madara is strong but Hashirama is stronger

What Raiden and I are trying to say is that Hashirama didn't do what was needed when it was needed. Regardless of if it was a smart decision or not, it's understandable that he didn't kill Madara when Tobirama wanted to. However, after Madara leaves the village he attacks it several times, and Hashirama still can't deal with him. It's only near the end of their fight at the VotE that he decides to kill him (and fails). Too bad, so sad for anybody killed/injured in Madara's earlier attacks.
Hashirama gave him several chances and Madara failed to accept it. I know.
But who is to say anyone got injured or died.
The point is Hashiarama handled it. Even if it did take time.

-I can't believe you would even suggest that it was easy for Minato to take away Naruto's future just because he "didn't know him yet". Try having a child before you make a statement like that again.
Not easy but it would be EASIER than killing someone you have history with.
Dude try killing your BFF before you make a statment like that again:)

-Hashirama single-handedly "dealing" with the problem is irrelevant. What are the Konoha shinobi supposed to do while they're being attacked-run away? They pretty much just stalled until Minato arrived anyway. And you're right, we don't know if Hashirama would do the same if he was in Minato's position, but we do know that Minato put the village before his family, whereas Hashirama put the village behind Madara for a while (wanted Madara as Hokage despite the majority being against it, failed to deal with Madara immediately after he defected).
Hashirama handled each attack without casuality. And Hashirama knew Madara would make a great Hokage. I do not think letting Madara go so long was the ideal idea but he did handle it.

If Hashirama killed Madara they would make peace with the next leader of the Uchiha, since the Uchiha were beginning to defect and wanted peace anyway. Or they established the village without the Uchiha-yes it takes away the peaceful agreement part, but the safe haven for children blah, blah, blah would be the same.

You dont know that. You can not say that for sure. There are multiple possiblities
-Some Uchiha would defect while others would attack for revenge (they are the clan of hatred and the cycle of revenge so its likely they would attack)
-Madara was the one to help come up with the idea and he was the strongest of his people. Hashirama made this and came up with this ideal world with Madara so they were both vital
-Killing Madara would not be peaceful. It would just show the Senju off as a big bully. killing whatever issue in their way. They would be hipicrites. They would just be folling the path of war and not the one of peace

[Mekuto]

He only invented ONE kinjutsu
There is no excuse for Impure Ressurection!! What monster would do that in the first place. You do realize that someone must die EVERYTIME he uses it right? A sacrfice should not be used for a simple jutsu. And to awaken someone from the dead is unforgiveable as Kakashi calls it.
Tobirama should have never invented it. And he should have did a better job to make sure nobody got it
Kill an enemy and revive a friend is simple to justify and we do not know, his intentions, we also do not know how far he took the testing. We do know that it took Orochimaru significant testing testing to learn how to do it and years to prefect it to the state it is at now. We do know that he himself admitted that it was immoral. There is nothing simple about this jutsu. His intention could have been to bring his dead friends back to life, that is a very noble goal. It is my thought that complete judgement can not be made.

[Godaime Kazekage]

You have this really narrow minded view of if it wasn't shown in the manga then it didn't happen and if something happened in the manga it couldn't have happened any differently if some factors were changed before it happened (like the Leaf couldn't have been established without Madara). We don't see every single character eat their meals or take a crap every day, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. True, I can't give you a panel of someone dying in Madara's attacks, but the guy can cut mountains with the swing of a sword, yet you think everyone was magically ok every time he attacked the village.:roll: It's called common sense-you might want to get some. :lol:

Better late then never isn't a viable excuse when you're job is to protect the village. Attack the village once, shame on you. Attack it lots of times-shame on me. Minato could've just pulled a Hashirama and warped back to the village and decide to deal with the Kyuubi later-"Oh no! The Kyuubi just killed a ton of people and the Masked Man took control of it again while you were sitting on your butt failing to deal with the situation Hokage-sama!"

Hmmm-maybe when my BFF goes full on psycho and tries to kill me and everyone I love, that will be an acceptable comeback.:roll: Try again.

Hashirama handled each attack without casualty is your wishful thinking and fanboyism. Let me remind you again-Mountain cutting sword slashes.

Madara did not come up with the village idea-that was a combination of Tobirama and Hashirama. Killing Madara would just prove that Senju aren't stupid enough to join with a crazy psycho and even the Uchiha were getting sick of Madara, because he wanted to keep fighting. The next leader could've been much more reasonable than Madara. We don't know for sure if the village would've been established although it is highly, highly likely and certainly doesn't, as you maintain, have a 0% chance of happening.

[PrinceofPeace]

He only invented ONE kinjutsu
There is no excuse for Impure Ressurection!! What monster would do that in the first place. You do realize that someone must die EVERYTIME he uses it right? A sacrfice should not be used for a simple jutsu. And to awaken someone from the dead is unforgiveable as Kakashi calls it.
Tobirama should have never invented it. And he should have did a better job to make sure nobody got it
Kill an enemy and revive a friend is simple to justify and we do not know, his intentions, we also do not know how far he took the testing..
We know that Oro and hashirama saw the jutsu as not needed. So the intention was not the best. The jutsu is still evil. Too kill someone and make them suffer as a vessel to bring back an immortal zombie. The dead should stay dead. And obviously the friend was not vital since tobirama did not use it

We do know that it took Orochimaru significant testing testing to learn how to do it and years to prefect it to the state it is at now. We do know that he himself admitted that it was immoral. There is nothing simple about this jutsu. His intention could have been to bring his dead friends back to life, that is a very noble goal. It is my thought that complete judgement can not be made.

It would be silly to bring his friends back to life. They would just be immortal walking zombies. What's the point? Plus he is still messing with the dead.

[PrinceofPeace]

You have this really narrow minded view of if it wasn't shown in the manga then it didn't happen and if something happened in the manga it couldn't have happened any differently if some factors were changed before it happened (like the Leaf couldn't have been established without Madara)
If we dont then were just assuming. You say I say...he say she say. Why bother even talking about it IMO

. We don't see every single character eat their meals or take a crap every day, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. True, I can't give you a panel of someone dying in Madara's attacks, but the guy can cut mountains with the swing of a sword, yet you think everyone was magically ok every time he attacked the village.:roll: It's called common sense-you might want to get some. :lol:
If we are assuming now I think that Hashirama sensed him and engaged him in battle before he could reach the village.

Better late then never isn't a viable excuse when you're job is to protect the village. Attack the village once, shame on you. Attack it lots of times-shame on me.
You say his job was to protect the village...that is what he did`:)
Minato could've just pulled a Hashirama and warped back to the village and decide to deal with the Kyuubi later-"Oh no! The Kyuubi just killed a ton of people and the Masked Man took control of it again while you were sitting on your butt failing to deal with the situation Hokage-sama!"
That is tottally different and you know it
-the kyubbi is a beast
-and minato has no history with them

Hmmm-maybe when my BFF goes full on psycho and tries to kill me and everyone I love, that will be an acceptable comeback.:roll: Try again.
If I was much stronger than my friend that I could spare him I would. At best I would at least try to seal/trap/restrain him. But IMO I would rather give up a child I barely know instead of someone I know I already love and care about and with a lot of history I have with.

Hashirama handled each attack without casualty is your wishful thinking and fanboyism. Let me remind you again-Mountain cutting sword slashes.
he did not have kyubbi for each of the attacks right?
If thats so than he would nto have mountain cutting sword. Cuz when he was an edo he had endless chakra and Senju DNA.
Its your negative fandumbness that makes you think Madara harmed people....I think hashirama would have mentioned that though

Madara did not come up with the village idea-that was a combination of Tobirama and Hashirama.
Madara and Hashirama were the main people to come up with the village idea when did Tobirama get on it?
Killing Madara would just prove that Senju aren't stupid enough to join with a crazy psycho and even the Uchiha were getting sick of Madara, because he wanted to keep fighting.
Your opinon.^
The next leader could've been much more reasonable than Madara
Your assumption
. We don't know for sure if the village would've been established although it is highly, highly likely and certainly doesn't, as you maintain, have a 0% chance of happening.

Hashirama 2016

[Godaime Kazekage]

Hashirama 2016

Oh dear...back around we go...
1. Yes, we are both making assumptions, but mine are much more logical and intelligent than yours.
2.Hashirama doesn't have any sensory abilities and if he engaged him before he reached the village every time, he would say Madara fought me multiple times instead of saying Madara attacked the village multiple times.
3. No, it's not different. Even if Kurama and Minato were best buds it wouldn't be acceptable for him to allow Kurama to attack the village multiple times. You're my friend so I'll let it slide is not an acceptable thing for any leader to do-it's Hashirama's job to protect the village, if someone keeps attacking the village you take them out-you don't let them keep doing it because you used to be friends.
4. I guess I can't really say anything to that then. If you feel that way, then that's how you feel. Although I doubt you would ever say that again if you ever become a father. Even still-kill crazy guy who's trying to kill me and my family or kill myself and take away my child's future...quite the difference.
5. Madara doesn't need Senju DNA or Kurama to use PS. It's an EMS technique. Sure it would wear him out, but he still has access to it. There is no reason for Hashirama to mention Madara hurting people, knowing that fact doesn't advance the story any further.
6. Tobirama was the first to suggest enemies coming together to settle their differences. The village was Hashirama's idea. Madara just supported him (initially). Again, it's a 'what-if' situation so of course I'm assuming. You're just as bad though if you ignore all facts and say, "It happened this way, so it couldn't have happened any other way."

[PrinceofPeace]

Oh dear...back around we go...
1. Yes, we are both making assumptions, but mine are much more logical and intelligent than yours.
Assumption =Assumption
You really think Hashirama would let Madara get that close to the village? He sensed him when Tobirama did not

2.Hashirama doesn't have any sensory abilities and if he engaged him before he reached the village every time, he would say Madara fought me multiple times instead of saying Madara attacked the village multiple times.
Hashirama DOES have sensory abilities. He sensed the war that was going on and he sensed Madara when he was talking to Tobirama btw TOBIRAMA DID NOT SENSE HIM! that is because Madara was not only after Hashirama.

3. No, it's not different. Even if Kurama and Minato were best buds it wouldn't be acceptable for him to allow Kurama to attack the village multiple times. You're my friend so I'll let it slide is not an acceptable thing for any leader to do-it's Hashirama's job to protect the village, if someone keeps attacking the village you take them out-you don't let them keep doing it because you used to be friends.
lol that is a terrbile example. It is a beast for crying out loud. They could not grow up together. THey were not in a time of war. This is TOTALLY differnt. The battle would have turned out soo differnelty.


4. I guess I can't really say anything to that then. If you feel that way, then that's how you feel. Although I doubt you would ever say that again if you ever become a father. Even still-kill crazy guy who's trying to kill me and my family or kill myself and take away my child's future...quite the difference.
Well whos to say maybe I will change my mind maybe I wont. I think I wont because I have this one REALLY AMAZING AWESOME FRIEND! I would die for this friend and I would save him if he was in trouble. I would not let anything happen to him. I would lay my life on the line for him. I would defned him and love him. He would have to be CRA CRA SUPER EVIL for no reason kind of evil. If I was that much stronger than him I would restrain him before killing him.
I just dont see how one child can make up for all of that. It's life barely started and I dont know it. I cant tell it apart from any other child. It may sound harsh but it sounds right to me.

5. Madara doesn't need Senju DNA or Kurama to use PS. It's an EMS technique. Sure it would wear him out, but he still has access to it. There is no reason for Hashirama to mention Madara hurting people, knowing that fact doesn't advance the story any further.
yeah it does it shows how Madara changed and fought and took other lives that were not involved to show how evil and powerful he was

6. Tobirama was the first to suggest enemies coming together to settle their differences. The village was Hashirama's idea. Madara just supported him (initially). Again, it's a 'what-if' situation so of course I'm assuming. You're just as bad though if you ignore all facts and say, "It happened this way, so it couldn't have happened any other way."
Tobirama just said adults should talk. ANd he ditched that philosophy

[PrinceofPeace]

YouTube anything about worst hokage and it will always be about
Tobirama, hiruzen, or tsaunde.

[Harlequin]

Huhuhu no hiruzen... :( but voted tobirama on the poll.

[Mekuto]

Minamoto, on the basis that we don't know what he's done as a leader. Other than protect the village and that is standard protocol.

[PrinceofPeace]

Agreed!

[feltlikeposting]

Tsunade by far.

How do you blame someone for creating a jutsu which was perfected by someone else? It's not like he planned that.

Yeah, haters gona hate.

[feltlikeposting]

Minamoto, on the basis that we don't know what he's done as a leader. Other than protect the village and that is standard protocol.

What has tsunade done for the village? She couldnt even protect it, which is as you say standard protocol.

[PrinceofPeace]

here is what Tsuande did

-Helped rebuild the Leaf After sound/sand invasion
-healed Kakashi from Itachi's genjutsu
-Healed Saskue from Itachi's genjutsu
-Healed Lee so he could be a ninja again
-Sent Shikamaru and his team to go save Saskue
-And for back up she sent the sand ninja
-By doing the two things above Saskue was not the vessel of Oro
-trained Sakura to not be totally useless
-improved the medical corp and healed lots of people in general
-brought Shizune to the village thus saving Neji's life
-Saved Choji's life
-Let Naruto go free out of the village to be stronger while others wanted him to be caged in the Leaf village
-Tsuande let Naruto train to be a Sage
-Tsuande let Naruto go out to find and fight Saskue/oro
-Tsuande made peace with all 5 nations
-Tsuande healed and protected the villagers from pains attacks as best she could. She did everything she could and fought until she could not
-Helped lead Shinobi Alliance along with Ay
-Believed in Naruto
-She was the ONLY kage to send her people to kill the akasuki
-she did not go along with Danzo
-She watched Root
-She handled the darkness and the light of the village
-She put the elders in their place

[Mekuto]

^ This.
You know who took the blunt of every mistake the others kages made? Tsuande.
So what if she wasn't the strongest, everything she did was to help people.

As you guys say though Haters gonna hate.

[sarutobi17]

I'am a fan of both hokages,but if i had to choose i would say...Tobirama.

[PrinceofPeace]

^ This.
You know who took the blunt of every mistake the others kages made? Tsuande.
So what if she wasn't the strongest, everything she did was to help people.

As you guys say though Haters gonna hate.

She Did way more than tobirama

[Mekuto]

She Did way more than tobirama
lol I know that, she's actually has my vote for the best Kage. Because she was the only one I saw who tried to proactively solve problems.

[PrinceofPeace]

lolz so what is your hokage order from best (top) to worst (bottom)

[Mekuto]

lolz so what is your hokage order from best (top) to worst (bottom)
That's a very hard list. Quick question do we know who disbanded root, cause that would win points in my book.

1. Tsuande- Is shown to have sought peace after being attacked, took steps to prevent Kurama's rampages, while not removing Naruto from the village. Took steps in breaking down the powers of root. The list goes on.

2. Tobirama- Established many systems such as the Anbu and Academy. Also credited with beginning the process of integrating the various clans into a unified village.

3. Hashirama- Founded the village and the ideology of the Will of Fire. Unfortunately we know almost nothing of his time as kage.

4. Hiruzen- Also an incredible ninja, but he allowed root to be established and led by someone else.

5. Minamoto- Incredible ninja, but did nothing groundbreaking that I know of may have disbanded root, but we don't know.

Honestly four and five are there, mainly because of a lack of attributable accomplishments. Both phenomenal ninja, worthy of being kage, but they didn't do much.

[AeoKyn]

That's a very hard list. Quick question do we know who disbanded root, cause that would win points in my book.

1. Tsuande- Is shown to have sought peace after being attacked, took steps to prevent Kurama's rampages, while not removing Naruto from the village. Took steps in breaking down the powers of root. The list goes on.

2. Tobirama- Established many systems such as the Anbu and Academy. Also credited with beginning the process of integrating the various clans into a unified village.

3. Hashirama- Founded the village and the ideology of the Will of Fire. Unfortunately we know almost nothing of his time as kage.

4. Hiruzen- Also an incredible ninja, but he allowed root to be established and led by someone else.

5. Minamoto- Incredible ninja, but did nothing groundbreaking that I know of may have disbanded root, but we don't know.

Honestly four and five are there, mainly because of a lack of attributable accomplishments. Both phenomenal ninja, worthy of being kage, but they didn't do much.
I'm inclined to agree to this order here, as we really don't know much about Minato's term.

[PrinceofPeace]

That's a very hard list. Quick question do we know who disbanded root, cause that would win points in my book.

1. Tsuande- Is shown to have sought peace after being attacked, took steps to prevent Kurama's rampages, while not removing Naruto from the village. Took steps in breaking down the powers of root. The list goes on.
Agreed...but would not be here if it was not for Hashirama.

2. Tobirama- Established many systems such as the Anbu and Academy.
Also credited with beginning the process of integrating the various clans into a unified village.
The Academy was Hashirama's idea. The academy was made during Hashirama's reign.
Proof of what is in yellow?

3. Hashirama- Founded the village and the ideology of the Will of Fire. Unfortunately we know almost nothing of his time as kage.
All i know is that we would not even have the leaf village not to mention any other village if it was not for hashirama. We would still be in war. Most people like Naruto would not even have been born. He helped to form the academy. It was his original idea afteral. Plus his regin was very peaceful and he protected his village from every threat every time.

4. Hiruzen- Also an incredible ninja, but he allowed root to be established and led by someone else.
IMO he should be at the bottom
-he let Oro live
-he let Tsuande leave
-Uchiha massacure happened
-if it was not for him the sand/sound would not have attacked
-he did nothing with the hyuuga incident
Hiruzen was strong by hype....but what did he do as hokage?

5. Minamoto- Incredible ninja, but did nothing groundbreaking that I know of may have disbanded root, but we don't know.
He protected the village from kyubi and Obito
He put a speacil seal on Naruto so that he could talk to him telepathically and save him
He helped birth Naruto
He should be above Hiruzen but below Tobirama (Tobirama should be 3rd)

Honestly four and five are there, mainly because of a lack of attributable accomplishments. Both phenomenal ninja, worthy of being kage, but they didn't do much.
My list
Hashirama-bassically none of this would have happened if it was not for him
Tsuande-we have most feats for
Tobirama-tried his best we have pros and cons
Minato-saved the village multipe times
Hiruzen-poop

[Mekuto]

My list
Hashirama-bassically none of this would have happened if it was not for him
Hashirama is almost a religious leader, a prophet if you will, I think he preforms that role much better than handling the social and political intrigue of running a village.

Tsuande-we have most feats for
She has done a lot to end the problems of the past and was the only Kage of any village to actively pursue criminals.

Tobirama-tried his best we have pros and cons
Going to maintain that he was instrumental in moving from a group of individual clans living in the village to a unified village.

Minato-saved the village multipe times
Led the village through a brutal war, and was an incredible ninja, but we have very little on what he did in other areas of the leadership.

Hiruzen-poop
Really I couldn't disagree with you more, other than the fact that he was soft. He led the village through a brutal war. In my list 4 & 5 are interchangeable.
It's not like I think any of these people had an easy job, Hashirama ranks third to me because I'm looking from the time he was named Kage on, rather than giving him a leadership pass, because he founded the village.

[konoha chimp]

In all honesty when I try to look at this logically neither of these are the worst Hokage.
If we judge the Hokage's actions and abilities as Hokage by feats it would mean that judging from what we actually know, Minato is the worst Hokage.
Just saying.

In my opinion: (Based on manga knowledge)
1. Hashirama
2. Hiruzen
3. Tsunade
4. Tobirama
5. Minato

[Greenrust]

Hiruzen failed so bad in so many ways. at least minito did a couple good things even though he died so early while hiruzen only put oro out of business temporarily.

[konoha chimp]

Agreed Hiruzen did fail badly. Yet he was the longest reigning Hokage and would therefore, have done the most for the village, a few mistakes he made can be contributed for Tobirama for putting him in a corner e.g. The Uchiha massacre.
Minato on the other hand, died.. for no real reason.

[PrinceofPeace]

@Mekuto
-Hashirama did a lot before/during his reign as hokage. He unified the Uchiha to the Leaf village. When Madara went rouge the Uchiha stayed with the village.
Also Hashirama protected the village from EVERY SINGLE THREAT and lived to brag about it. No other hokage can say that. Hashirama defeated Madara to the point where he could not be a threat. Let's not forget how he stomped Kakazu. Hashirama started the academy during his reign. And was the one to control the bijju. He also got the Uzumaki clan to join in with the leaf. With this the kyubbi was safely sealed. let's not forget that his regin was the most peaceful

I honestly do not get where you get the idea that Tobirama got other clans to join the leaf??? Hashirama did that. He was even talking about it with Madara on the pre hokage monument. Hashirama was the one who made the treaty with the Uzumaki's afterall. Do you want a chp/pg? I would like proof from you which you still have not given me...unless your assuming again :roll:

Just let me know if you have proof or not please....cuz I do

@Konoha Chimp

yes Hiruzen was the hokage longest but that does not mean he did a lot. In his long regin he had the most mistakes
-let oro live and get away (look how much issues that caused)
-if he was not so soft then sound/sand village would not attack
-let Tsuande leave the village
-Uchiha Masssacure happened under his regin
-He did nothing in the Hyuuga affairs
It is hard to find good things that he did

[AeoKyn]

not dissing hashirama but when you go from warring states to village systems, there's bound to be a good deal LESS chaos compared to the world you lived in before.

[PrinceofPeace]

^Obivously.
But not anyone could go lead the whole world from war to village system

[AeoKyn]

agreed completely; some might even call the person who can the Messiah.

[PrinceofPeace]

yeah so he deserves to be #1....afterall he was #1 hokage.
There were barely any mistakes with his regin. And I would love to follow him and live during his regin to know peace

[Mekuto]

I will say this again I do not care about the strength as a ninja, but what they did as Kage. I didn't say get other clans to join the leaf. He worked to bring those clans together so that they would act more like a village rather than a lose coalition of clans.

Hashirama's peace only lasted as long as he did, after the threat of his power was gone, war broke out. His greatest legacy is the Will of Fire.

"My brother thought that the village was something that would demolish the boundaries between clans. Well in the end it wasn't that simple.... My role as the second Hokage was to mediate between them (the clans) while protecting and reinforcing the village." Chp 627 pg. 4

[PrinceofPeace]

I am not talking about pure strength but te ability to protect your people from threats is very important!

At least HASHIRAMA has a peaceful reign even if it was for a moment. Don't hate or be jealous or critique HASHIRAMA when tobirama could not do it.
Seriously can you not hate and give HASHIRAMA credit where credit is due

Funny how tobirama was hiruzen's teacher yet he took after HASHIRAMA more

HASHIRAMA also started academy

Overall he did more than just Will of Fire!


Nice quote kudos. Thanks for using proof and not assuming.

[Mekuto]

I am not talking about pure strength but te ability to protect your people from threats is very important!

At least HASHIRAMA has a peaceful reign even if it was for a moment. Don't hate or be jealous or critique HASHIRAMA when tobirama could not do it.
Seriously can you not hate and give HASHIRAMA credit where credit is due

Funny how tobirama was hiruzen's teacher yet he took after HASHIRAMA more

HASHIRAMA also started academy

Overall he did more than just Will of Fire!


Nice quote kudos. Thanks for using proof and not assuming.
Was the village under Tobirama ever even attacked? (Not the war, but an actual attack on the village) If not then Tobirama protected the village just as well or even better than Hashirama, because under him the village was attacked by Madara.

I'll give to Hashirama that he achieved peace for a time, but it was not a wholesome lasting peace. And I will say it was easier for Hashirama to obtain peace, than it would've been during the second shinobi war,

Both Hashirama and Tobirama held to the idea of the Will of Fire, it was Tobirama who told him to work towards investing that will into the next generation. (Chp 123 pg 14) Leading to the legendary Sannin and if you read the reference provided it was Tobirama who spoke protecting those who loved the village. Protecting the Will of Fire.

Of course he did more than the will of fire, but it was his greatest accomplishment.

[Shisko Shi]

^Obivously.
But not anyone could go lead the whole world from war to village system


The whole Hashirama is irrelavent....

He never had great ninja wars. So how can you say that had he been kage during the Chunin it still would have happened. If Pain landed in still would have happened.

[PrinceofPeace]

Yes, Mekuto the village was attacked during tonirama's reign and it was by kumo and tonirama's ending up dying from it and he could not protect everyone.
But at least he attained peace even for a moment. Peace itself is an ibcredible feat that most can not do!



@ss
Elaborate more Sony know what your saying

[Harlequin]

Hiruzen is the worst. He should be on the poll. :/

[voicesinmyhead]

well i don't like niether of them but i think i voted for tsunade dont know y though
i feel like tobirama did more than tsudade
but tsunade was a better leader than tobirama
so i am kinda stuck they have certian qualities that make them great leaders
then there are some qualities that make them look bad so .....
this is a tough one for me to decide on

[Mekuto]

Yes, Mekuto the village was attacked during tonirama's reign and it was by kumo and tonirama's ending up dying from it and he could not protect everyone.
But at least he attained peace even for a moment. Peace itself is an ibcredible feat that most can not do!
He was attacked while on a mission, can you provide reference where it is said they attacked the village, rather than a team of nin.
Hashirama's peace was not wholesome or lasting, it simply put the fighting on hiatus.

[Harlequin]

Hiruzen is no doubt the crappiest shinobi imo. He lets danzo do.things his way for the village. Even if it was anything to protect the village, danzo is wrong at doing his way of things.

[Mekuto]

Hiruzen is no doubt the crappiest shinobi imo. He lets danzo do.things his way for the village. Even if it was anything to protect the village, danzo is wrong at doing his way of things.
In defense of that the third shinobi war is considered the worst of the older three. It was at a time when the very survival of the village was in question. We know that even up to his death root had been preforming covert operations against threats to the peace of the village. I agree that Danzo left this path and began doing inappropriate things, which was protected by the clandestine nature of Danzo's work. It's actually a very clever move, the dark and evil things you need to do can be done, but you get to claim plausible deniablity.

[PrinceofPeace]

well i don't like niether of them but i think i voted for tsunade dont know y though
i feel like tobirama did more than tsudade
but tsunade was a better leader than tobirama
so i am kinda stuck they have certian qualities that make them great leaders
then there are some qualities that make them look bad so .....
this is a tough one for me to decide on.

here is what Tsuande did

-Helped rebuild the Leaf After sound/sand invasion
-healed Kakashi from Itachi's genjutsu
-Healed Saskue from Itachi's genjutsu
-Healed Lee so he could be a ninja again
-Sent Shikamaru and his team to go save Saskue
-And for back up she sent the sand ninja
-By doing the two things above Saskue was not the vessel of Oro
-trained Sakura to not be totally useless
-improved the medical corp and healed lots of people in general
-brought Shizune to the village thus saving Neji's life
-Saved Choji's life
-Let Naruto go free out of the village to be stronger while others wanted him to be caged in the Leaf village
-Tsuande let Naruto train to be a Sage
-Tsuande let Naruto go out to find and fight Saskue/oro
-Tsuande made peace with all 5 nations
-Tsuande healed and protected the villagers from pains attacks as best she could. She did everything she could and fought until she could not
-Helped lead Shinobi Alliance along with Ay
-Believed in Naruto
-She was the ONLY kage to send her people to kill the akasuki
-she did not go along with Danzo
-She watched Root
-She handled the darkness and the light of the village
-She put the elders in their place

He was attacked while on a mission, can you provide reference where it is said they attacked the village, rather than a team of nin.
Hashirama's peace was not wholesome or lasting, it simply put the fighting on hiatus.
I liked what you said. You tried to offer the possibility that the village was not attacked because I did not provide enough proof.

BUT HAVE NO FEAR lolz I have some more clarification!
chp527 pg 5-:at the ceremony where we entered the into a formal alliance with the hidden leaf. they tried to stage a coup D'etat and ambushed the 2HK and 2KK
So it was not just a random mission to fight. The Kumo started it and attacked them.

[Mekuto]

I liked what you said. You tried to offer the possibility that the village was not attacked because I did not provide enough proof.

BUT HAVE NO FEAR lolz I have some more clarification!
chp527 pg 5-:at the ceremony where we entered the into a formal alliance with the hidden leaf. they tried to stage a coup D'etat and ambushed the 2HK and 2KK
So it was not just a random mission to fight. The Kumo started it and attacked them.
Yeah I may be wrong, but the Kinkaku group attacked during the treaty at neutral ground, (if they had been ambushed inside the village then why were they heading to it.) staging a coup against the 2RK and ambushing the 2HK's group. It isn't stated that they reached the village.

It wasn't a normal mission, it was a peace mission proof the 2nd was trying to stabilize the villages making a lasting peace.

[PrinceofPeace]

Well what we know

Tobirama did not keep the peace. There was a threat AT LEAST against Tobirama

It was not just a random mission to fight back Kumo

Hashirama's regin was peaceful and he took down every and any threat and did not need help

[Mekuto]

What we do know is

Tobirama sought to build alliances with other villages. Just like Hashirama.

The cloud ninja called the Kumo who led the coup as the worst criminals of their village meaning that cloud wanted the alliance.

Hashirama's reign was threatened by Madara, several times and finally he "handled" it. Apparently he did need help, because Madara lived.

[PrinceofPeace]

What we do know is

Tobirama sought to build alliances with other villages. Just like Hashirama.
tried...BUT FAILED

The cloud ninja called the Kumo who led the coup as the worst criminals of their village meaning that cloud wanted the alliance.
right...still failed though considering that the kumo tried to
-take the kyuubi
-were invloved in war
-tried to steal bykugan

Hashirama's reign was threatened by Madara, several times and finally he "handled" it. Apparently he did need help, because Madara lived.
Hashirama put Madara in a state where he could not cause harm

So Hashiram made peace and maintained it

Tobirama...did not

plus we do not know if it was kumo or kohoha who went to establish the peace

[Mekuto]

His attempt failed, but through no fault of his own, the Cloud village had the Coup de'tat.
Interestingly enough the Kumo's attempt to take the Kyuubi only fits into Hashirama's rule. Seeing as Hashirama's wife was a host and she transferred the Buuji to Kushina.

The Kumo tried to take the Kyuubi before it was sealed into Hashirama's wife which is stated to have been done with Hashirama and her working together.

The First Shinobi War determined the country boundaries and followed the rule of only one village per country, either you fought or you didn't exist.

Trying to take the Bykugan happened after the Third Shinobi War, and while it is extremely likely that the coup against the 2RK contributed to the fact that they were not able to obtain an alliance, we have no proof.

Madara is causing harm right now.

I'll grant that he made peace, but it was not lasting.

Tobirama, like a good leader was open to peace and tried, again not his fault that the other guy got killed by rogue elements. Maybe if he had made them the police force and watched them for trouble it could've been prevented.

They both sought peace, or at least neither were opposed to it. Do we know if Hashirama sought the alliance with Uzikagakure or vice versa?

[Shisko Shi]

I feel PoP Just wants to hate on Tobirama.....>.> Haters will hate bro.

Tsunadai... Let Pervy Sage on that mission killing him.. How dare her. lol

[Greenrust]

Ya pervy sage wanted to go shisko. How would tsunade stop a determined jiyira?

[Shisko Shi]

Its a joke because Pop ignores me.. Clearly it is false.. >.> How do you know now that. there was an "lol" there. xD

Im bashing him because all this is is "Tobirama is a bad man!" Ot is almost like religion with God and Sin and all this crap...

[Mekuto]

Ya pervy sage wanted to go shisko. How would tsunade stop a determined jiyira?
He's a man she's a woman she could've stopped him.:D

[PrinceofPeace]

His attempt failed, but through no fault of his own, the Cloud village had the Coup de'tat.
It's not my fault that my partners for a project did not do their share of work but we still got a failing grade.
THE POINT IS-No peace was made

Interestingly enough the Kumo's attempt to take the Kyuubi only fits into Hashirama's rule. Seeing as Hashirama's wife was a host and she transferred the Buuji to Kushina.
So?? This only made it harder for people to take and keep bijju. If hashirama did not distribute them and help seal them then it would be easier for people to take. Dont try to spin this. If tobirama could have kept the peace then that would not have happened.

The Kumo tried to take the Kyuubi before it was sealed into Hashirama's wife which is stated to have been done with Hashirama and her working together.
Thanks to Hashirama sealing it into his wife this was good so that nobody wouldbody else would try to get the bijju. This way people would not die against kurama and eat its chakra

The First Shinobi War determined the country boundaries and followed the rule of only one village per country, either you fought or you didn't exist.
okay/////

Trying to take the Bykugan happened after the Third Shinobi War, and while it is extremely likely that the coup against the 2RK contributed to the fact that they were not able to obtain an alliance, we have no proof.
well it would not have happened if Tobirama made peace with them

Madara is causing harm right now.
thanks to Tobirama's Edo Tensi

I'll grant that he made peace, but it was not lasting.
stop saying that! At least he made peace and maintained it for a time. Hashirama passed his term on to the next gernetaion yet Tobiram could not handle it. It was his fault. He did not make it lasting. Tobirama could not make nor maintain peace.

Tobirama, like a good leader was open to peace and tried, again not his fault that the other guy got killed by rogue elements. Maybe if he had made them the police force and watched them for trouble it could've been prevented.
yeah watch THEM not the uchiha. That seriously makes much more sense

They both sought peace, or at least neither were opposed to it. Do we know if Hashirama sought the alliance with Uzikagakure or vice versa?
obviously since he banged one of them XD

Its a joke because Pop ignores me.. Clearly it is false.. >.> How do you know now that. there was an "lol" there. xD

Im bashing him because all this is is "Tobirama is a bad man!" Ot is almost like religion with God and Sin and all this crap...
lol sorry I have to watch this child and give him my full attention

idk why anyone would even hate on a character for no reason. Not like i have reasons or anything

[Mekuto]

- That analogy is over simplifying the point, they both sought peace, but elements of the Cloud did not and they took that chance to act. If anything this proves that being wary of some of the clans within your village is prudent.

- I was just pointing out a fun fact, the Kinkaku brothers had to be eaten by the Kyuubi before it was sealed. Love how you accuse me of spinning something, but then blame this on Tobirama, before he was Kage.

- Again wasn't stating it was a bad thing, in fact sealing a beast inside of an Uzimaki is a great idea considering, their lifespan and natural sealing abilities.

- Don't know that at this later time they may have still tried to take a bykugan, but Tobirama was making peace with them, he died.

- Kabuto's Edo Tensei, we aren't going around blaming the Rikkudo sage for Pain's actions or what the buuji's have done.

- Hashirama's method for achieving peace led to a war of greater intensity. His peace came about by forcing other clans to organize into villages so they could match the power of Konoha. They had peace while they organized, but then they sought to extend the borders of their country and become the sole village of a country.

- I was talking about the Raikage, he should've watched his people better. Tobirama didn't have any issues with people stepping out of line, because he was watching them.

[PrinceofPeace]

That analogy is over simplifying the point, they both sought peace, but elements of the Cloud did not and they took that chance to act. If anything this proves that being wary of some of the clans within your village is prudent.
How are the clans involved? It was the opposing village that staged the threat not the leaf clans! Can you even prove that it was all one clan that attacked and not parts of different clans?

- I was just pointing out a fun fact, the Kinkaku brothers had to be eaten by the Kyuubi before it was sealed. Love how you accuse me of spinning something, but then blame this on Tobirama, before he was Kage.
huh?

- Again wasn't stating it was a bad thing, in fact sealing a beast inside of an Uzimaki is a great idea considering, their lifespan and natural sealing abilities.
ok

- Don't know that at this later time they may have still tried to take a bykugan, but Tobirama was making peace with them, he died.
he failed to establish peace

- Kabuto's Edo Tensei, we aren't going around blaming the Rikkudo sage for Pain's actions or what the buuji's have done.
that is different. Like Oro said the jutsu did not even need to be created. And Hashirama Warned Tobirama not to make it. The bijju and Sage did some bad but mOSTLY good things and they did not get warnings. Plus Pain's intentions were good. Pain did good as well. but Edo Tensi is all bad.

- Hashirama's method for achieving peace led to a war of greater intensity. His peace came about by forcing other clans to organize into villages so they could match the power of Konoha. They had peace while they organized, but then they sought to extend the borders of their country and become the sole village of a country.
How is clan vs clan worse then village vs village? At least there is some sort of peace and live outside of just one clan. And with village vs village war people lived longer.
PEACE is PEACE even for a moment.
Tobirama did not even establilsh it so please stop blamming Hahsirmaa for what Tobirama cant do

- I was talking about the Raikage, he should've watched his people better. Tobirama didn't have any issues with people stepping out of line, because he was watching them.
The Uchiha's were plotting to step out of line

[Mekuto]

- You misunderstood, I'm referring to the cloud village, elements of cloud clans staged the coup. I never said it was one clan in fact I stated the opposite.

- Ok, wow I get it he died, but he died in the pursuit of peace, and through no fault of his own, so give credit where it is due. Tobirama was not some warmonger.

- Wrong Edo Tensei is not all bad the four Hokages are headed to the battlefield, and Sasuke decided to fight Madara, they could well tip the balance of this fight, if they do then Edo Tensei saved the ninja world.

- The village against village battles, involved more shinobi and rather than a series of skirmishes it was an actual war. I didn't say it was worse, I said the wars were more intense.

- The only evidence of an Uchiha plot was the coup that came to light nine years after the Kyuubi attack. This is a great indicator that Tobirama's actions suppressed dissent, while not antagonizing them.

[PrinceofPeace]

- You misunderstood, I'm referring to the cloud village, elements of cloud clans staged the coup. I never said it was one clan in fact I stated the opposite.
The point is peace between the two villages failed

- Ok, wow I get it he died, but he died in the pursuit of peace, and through no fault of his own, so give credit where it is due. Tobirama was not some warmonger.
yes I give some props for it....but he failed.

- Wrong Edo Tensei is not all bad the four Hokages are headed to the battlefield, and Sasuke decided to fight Madara, they could well tip the balance of this fight, if they do then Edo Tensei saved the ninja world.
it is all bad. If it was not for ET then we would not need the hokages to be summonded. If it was not for ET then Hiruzen would be alive and the attack on the leaf would not happen. Saskue would still be in the village. and MADARA WOULD NOT BE BACK

- The village against village battles, involved more shinobi and rather than a series of skirmishes it was an actual war. I didn't say it was worse, I said the wars were more intense.
overall the village system was better than individual clans

- The only evidence of an Uchiha plot was the coup that came to light nine years after the Kyuubi attack. This is a great indicator that Tobirama's actions suppressed dissent, while not antagonizing them.
Yet still caused the issues to start. Without distancing and watching them then Madara's "tobirama is a jerk theories" would not have come to life