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Uchiha Sora
04-30-2012, 03:50 PM
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No genjutsu
No shukaku

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:17 PM
i think sasuke takes this wit his lighting ninjutsu

megabbaut
04-30-2012, 04:18 PM
Even without the restrictions, Gaara stomps. He's already dealt with Amaterasu before, so that won't work on him. Sasuke can get pulled out of his Susanoo. Any lightning jutsu won't work since he blocked A's lightning kick which >>> any of Sasuke's lightning jutsu really. Fire styles are fodder on Gaara's sand.

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:21 PM
yay a debating buddie, dude lghting can get through his sand, he does chidori senbon n shoots the lighting multiple times n goes behind him, amatertasu or chidori gg

megabbaut
04-30-2012, 04:24 PM
Amaterasu is ineffective due to the auto sand barrier. Sasuke can't get behind him or get close enough to Chidori him due to the distance, and even then Gaara will be spamming sand attacks at him so he can't get closer to him. Senbon is really weak against the sand.

Wasn't your old name vermillion rage 6

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:34 PM
no natural effects of nature in naruto is lighting kills earth earth kills water water kills fire fire kills wind n wind kills lighting, so gaara has a disadvantage sasuke preps kirin while gaara is blocking senbon then

yes

Uchiha Sora
04-30-2012, 04:44 PM
^There are natural nature effects.

You're thinking CHAKRA natures. And Gaara is wind btw. Which iirc>lightning.
Anyway Chidori is his only lightning jutsu that will get through the sand aside from kirin.

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:45 PM
fire kills wind

Uchiha Sora
04-30-2012, 04:48 PM
Still not breaking through his sand though.

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:49 PM
true but it will weaken it enough to lay a few strikes up to a critical hit

Lone_Espada
04-30-2012, 04:52 PM
Fire won't do sh!t to Gaaras sand. It's strong enough to block Amaterasu which is like the strongest fire thing in the world, lolz.

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:54 PM
lone ur late

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 04:58 PM
anyway susanoo may b his only chance, amaterasu sword

Lone_Espada
04-30-2012, 04:59 PM
lone ur late I like showing up late, lolz.

anyway susanoo may b his only chance, amaterasu sword It's still covered in Amaterasu which Gaara has already blocked before.

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 05:02 PM
dude gaara has no feat of guarding sasuke's susanoo attacks

Lone_Espada
04-30-2012, 05:04 PM
dude gaara has no feat of guarding sasuke's susanoo attacks Naruto doesn't have feats for destroying Sasuke's susanoo, yet one TBB and Sasuke would be gone even with susanoo up.

Uchiha Sora
04-30-2012, 05:19 PM
to be fair Gaara never reacted to and blocked ammy, Sasuke HIT the sand with ammy.

Kyo Yasanagi
04-30-2012, 05:20 PM
i forgot abt that o.o

Uchiha Sora
04-30-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm pretty sure thats what happened but not 100%

Lone_Espada
04-30-2012, 07:46 PM
Does someone have to go look up the page?

TheBlackChidori
04-30-2012, 09:13 PM
Chidori Spear is a kill-shot. That's about it for this fight.

Rasen_Chidori
04-30-2012, 10:02 PM
Auto sand shield would defend against it enough that Gaara would have time to avoid it which I assume he would since he is well aware that lightning > earth

TheBlackChidori
04-30-2012, 10:35 PM
Auto sand shield would defend against it enough that Gaara would have time to avoid it which I assume he would since he is well aware that lightning > earth

Gaara's "Ultimate Defense" was pierced by a PTS Sasuke fresh out of training with a two-burst per day limit. Even his Shukaku arm was ripped off from it. What's he going to do against a bar of concentrated Chidori Stream from a Sasuke that's well above CS2 levels of chakra at this point? Sasuke's power has increased more than Gaara's sand durability since that fight.

Lightning Kick from A is a completely different type of Raiton. His kick is covered in a shroud of lightning armor and is a blunt damage attack with the lightning increasing its speed. Chidori on the other hand, is literally a ball or stream of chakra-infused lightning that's designed to pierce or impale the opponent, capable of cutting Bijuu arms.

Rasen_Chidori
04-30-2012, 11:23 PM
If I remember correctly, Oro was able to halt it's path at least temporarily with his bare hand by allowing it to pierce through it, I'd suggest that Gaara's sand, even with elemental disadvantage > Oro's hand in durability.

Naruske Uzuchi
05-01-2012, 12:35 AM
Gaara beat his ass in Pre- Time Skip, he can kick his ass again

coil
05-01-2012, 02:50 AM
I believe Sasuke would win. Garra's sand can only move so fast, and Garra hasn't shown half of the speed Sasuke has. Sasuke's Chidori managed to pierce Garra's defense during the Chunin exams so it probably can now.

megabbaut
05-01-2012, 03:30 AM
Gaara's "Ultimate Defense" was pierced by a PTS Sasuke fresh out of training with a two-burst per day limit. Even his Shukaku arm was ripped off from it. What's he going to do against a bar of concentrated Chidori Stream from a Sasuke that's well above CS2 levels of chakra at this point? Sasuke's power has increased more than Gaara's sand durability since that fight.

Lightning Kick from A is a completely different type of Raiton. His kick is covered in a shroud of lightning armor and is a blunt damage attack with the lightning increasing its speed. Chidori on the other hand, is literally a ball or stream of chakra-infused lightning that's designed to pierce or impale the opponent, capable of cutting Bijuu arms.
I find it dumb the people always compare PTS Chunnin Exam Gaara's sand getting pierced by Chidori to TS Gaara's sand. And Sasuke won't be able to land Chidori on Gaara anyway, since he's not getting closer to Gaara due to the sand that keeps coming. Chidori Stream can't be spammed, so after it's over he gets caught in a sand burial. Plus, when did it ever cut Bijuu arms?

JLI2infinity
05-01-2012, 06:18 AM
Not a big Sasuke fan but I think Gaara loses here. Not only is Sasuke incredibly fast but he has Gaara's weakness, now of course things like Basic Chidori attacks and his sword won't be able to penetrate Gaara's defense after we saw Gaara could stop A's kick (even though it wasn't a penetrating attack so I guess it's debatable) but I think everyone's forgetting s certain technique.

I know Sasuke's been caught up in his eugenics campaign to prove the Uchiha are the superior clan, and has been spamming MS techniques for the last 150 chapters but before he fought Itachi when he was "gaining power his own way" (the impressive way that actually required training) Sasuke mastered the most powerful lightning technique we've seen in the entire show. Gaara's already weak against lightning attacks even though he's managed to compensate for the Earth affinity I don't think he can defend against an attack of that level, and if he does survive I feel like he'll be either severely weakened or fatigued. But he would give Sasuke a run for his money with his method for dealing with Susano'o.

Uchiha Sora
05-01-2012, 07:45 AM
For the last time, Gaara Doesnt have earth chakra. He's wind.

Who's to say Gaara doesn't sand tsunami him right off the bat?
Or just grab his feet from under him and then crush him like he did to Kimi?

megabbaut
05-01-2012, 08:09 AM
Omg Sasuke can't use Kirin anymore guys, stop bringing it up. For one, he needed CS2 Great Dragon Flames to create clouds, and plus Amaterasu to heat it up even more for it to be enough to use Kirin. Unless he gets his Cursed Seal back, he will not be able to use Kirin ever again.

But to be fair, Gaara's wind affinity is just to move the sand around. But the sand itself is Earth element.

Uchiha Sora
05-01-2012, 08:17 AM
How is the sand earth element if its not inbued with earth chakra?

megabbaut
05-01-2012, 08:24 AM
Because it comes from the Earth. Also sand is made from worn down stone by strong wind/water.

*waits for Kuromaki to say I plagiarized

Uchiha Sora
05-01-2012, 08:40 AM
But its not earth chakra.

Lightning chakra> Earth Chakra
Earth Chakra=/=Random Sand/rock

megabbaut
05-01-2012, 08:54 AM
You know he puts chakra into the sand he gets from the ground, right? Like against Kimi?

Uchiha Sora
05-01-2012, 09:12 AM
No he doesn't, see Gaara VS Deidara. Deidara compares Gaara's own chakra infused sand to normal desert sand.

But Gaara doesn't have Earth Chakra in the first place. He COULD, but we don't know that. He's done wind release jutsus before in his Shukaku forms, but we don't know if his wind affinity is Shukaku's chakra or not.

JLI2infinity
05-01-2012, 05:18 PM
For the last time, Gaara Doesnt have earth chakra. He's wind.

Who's to say Gaara doesn't sand tsunami him right off the bat?
Or just grab his feet from under him and then crush him like he did to Kimi?

Omg Sasuke can't use Kirin anymore guys, stop bringing it up. For one, he needed CS2 Great Dragon Flames to create clouds, and plus Amaterasu to heat it up even more for it to be enough to use Kirin. Unless he gets his Cursed Seal back, he will not be able to use Kirin ever again.

Both of these posts have incorrect corrections.

1.) I'm assuming you got Gaara's wind affinity trait off of the Naruto wiki. That is only assumed because of the Shukaku that resided within him. The only wind technique we've seen from Gaara (not in anime) were the Vacuum Bullets the Ichibi fired at Gamabunta. The Shukaku no longer resides within Gaara and he hasn't displayed any elemental ninjutsu other than sand manipulation which was weak against lightning PTS. It's similar to how a lot of people are assuming the Kyuubi uses fire (from some flashback panels in the manga and episodes in the anime) although it's not proven even if the Kyuubi did use fire that would be it's own elemental affinity not Naruto's.

2.) Sasuke can now use Amaterasu freely and more competently than Itachi, so heating the atmosphere would now be a simpler task for him, and I don't know why you think he needs CS2 just to perform his fire technique, he still has high levels of chakra as we've seen from his ability to use MS for longer periods than Itachi and his fights with Deidara, and Karin already said that his chakra was even darker than it was in his CS2 state so no he doesn't need CS2 to create the preparations for Kirin.

Also, although this is a bit inconsistent with the Itachi fight, in the chapter were he reunited with Naruto and Sakura for the first time after the TS, he performed the hand signs and raised his hand to the sky and said that he was going to finish everyone off with his new technique, Oro had to show up and stop him. This suggests that he can even perform Kirin in his base form although I'm guessing to a much smaller extent.

Uchiha Sora
05-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Both of these posts have incorrect corrections.

1.) I'm assuming you got Gaara's wind affinity trait off of the Naruto wiki. That is only assumed because of the Shukaku that resided within him. The only wind technique we've seen from Gaara (not in anime) were the Vacuum Bullets the Ichibi fired at Gamabunta. The Shukaku no longer resides within Gaara and he hasn't displayed any elemental ninjutsu other than sand manipulation which was weak against lightning PTS. It's similar to how a lot of people are assuming the Kyuubi uses fire (from some flashback panels in the manga and episodes in the anime) although it's not proven even if the Kyuubi did use fire that would be it's own elemental affinity not Naruto's.


Also, although this is a bit inconsistent with the Itachi fight, in the chapter were he reunited with Naruto and Sakura for the first time after the TS, he performed the hand signs and raised his hand to the sky and said that he was going to finish everyone off with his new technique, Oro had to show up and stop him. This suggests that he can even perform Kirin in his base form although I'm guessing to a much smaller extent.

I already acknowledged that in another post. Also Gaara used Wind Release:Infinite Sand breakthrough or something like that in a mini shukaku form. Thats what really makes me think he's wind affinity, because Gaara was still in full control of himself.

When did Kurama use a fire technique in the manga?

He most likely can but he'd get crushed before he had the chance to prep and use it.

megabbaut
05-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Both of these posts have incorrect corrections.

1.) I'm assuming you got Gaara's wind affinity trait off of the Naruto wiki. That is only assumed because of the Shukaku that resided within him. The only wind technique we've seen from Gaara (not in anime) were the Vacuum Bullets the Ichibi fired at Gamabunta. The Shukaku no longer resides within Gaara and he hasn't displayed any elemental ninjutsu other than sand manipulation which was weak against lightning PTS. It's similar to how a lot of people are assuming the Kyuubi uses fire (from some flashback panels in the manga and episodes in the anime) although it's not proven even if the Kyuubi did use fire that would be it's own elemental affinity not Naruto's.

2.) Sasuke can now use Amaterasu freely and more competently than Itachi, so heating the atmosphere would now be a simpler task for him, and I don't know why you think he needs CS2 just to perform his fire technique, he still has high levels of chakra as we've seen from his ability to use MS for longer periods than Itachi and his fights with Deidara, and Karin already said that his chakra was even darker than it was in his CS2 state so no he doesn't need CS2 to create the preparations for Kirin.

Also, although this is a bit inconsistent with the Itachi fight, in the chapter were he reunited with Naruto and Sakura for the first time after the TS, he performed the hand signs and raised his hand to the sky and said that he was going to finish everyone off with his new technique, Oro had to show up and stop him. This suggests that he can even perform Kirin in his base form although I'm guessing to a much smaller extent.
Amaterasu alone is not enough to change the weather conditions. Only his Great Dragon Flame technique was enough to create thunderclouds. And he had to go into CS2 just to use that, and since he lost his Cursed Seal, he can't use it ever again. The Kage Summit fights support this, because not once did he even attempt to prep Kirin because even he knew that he wouldn't be able to. It's not the chakra, it's the Cursed Seal allowing him to use it.

The only fact we can take from his first reunion with Team 7 is that he was bluffing. It's not even solid evidence that the move he was going to use was Kirin. The only time he's used Kirin is shown fighting Itachi. You can't ignore the prep it takes for Kirin when it was clearly shown in Itachi's fight. Also, the Team 7 thing was shown to need hand signs, and Sasuke explained to Itachi that Kirin required no hand signs at all.

Uchiha Sora
05-01-2012, 07:48 PM
Sasuke only went CS2 because he needed more chakra. He had just used oral rebirth with takes up a crap ton. And the fire jutsu he used to destroy Oro's hideout was most likely Great Dragon Flame Jutsu.

Sasuke made the great dragon flame hand signs when he fought team 7.

You can't say "Sasuke didn't even try to prep it once because he knew he couldn't." This was never stated. You do realize Sasuke isn't real, right? He does what Kishi wants him to do. If he WAS real, and had his own rational thinking, he would have used Kirin. But that wouldn't flow with the story. Thats like saying Naruto couldn't use Gamabunta anymore since he didn't use it on Sasuke, when Gama would have won the fight for him.

Long story short, he didn't use it because of PnJ. Or CIS. :lol:

The Powerup
05-01-2012, 09:18 PM
Gaara three reasons

1. he's blocked A's Gulltoin drop

2. He Blocked ammy

3. Gaara has that kakashi ftw thing.




. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-

JLI2infinity
05-01-2012, 09:51 PM
Sasuke only went CS2 because he needed more chakra. He had just used oral rebirth with takes up a crap ton. And the fire jutsu he used to destroy Oro's hideout was most likely Great Dragon Flame Jutsu.

Sasuke made the great dragon flame hand signs when he fought team 7.

You can't say "Sasuke didn't even try to prep it once because he knew he couldn't." This was never stated. You do realize Sasuke isn't real, right? He does what Kishi wants him to do. If he WAS real, and had his own rational thinking, he would have used Kirin. But that wouldn't flow with the story. Thats like saying Naruto couldn't use Gamabunta anymore since he didn't use it on Sasuke, when Gama would have won the fight for him.

Long story short, he didn't use it because of PnJ. Or CIS. :lol:

Beautiful now I don't have to respond, thank you for this post.

To the guy above me, read other posts all the things you just said have been addressed.

megabbaut
05-02-2012, 03:20 AM
Sasuke only went CS2 because he needed more chakra. He had just used oral rebirth with takes up a crap ton. And the fire jutsu he used to destroy Oro's hideout was most likely Great Dragon Flame Jutsu.

Sasuke made the great dragon flame hand signs when he fought team 7.

You can't say "Sasuke didn't even try to prep it once because he knew he couldn't." This was never stated. You do realize Sasuke isn't real, right? He does what Kishi wants him to do. If he WAS real, and had his own rational thinking, he would have used Kirin. But that wouldn't flow with the story. Thats like saying Naruto couldn't use Gamabunta anymore since he didn't use it on Sasuke, when Gama would have won the fight for him.

Long story short, he didn't use it because of PnJ. Or CIS. :lol:
Since when does CS2 grant you more chakra? And we don't know what fire style Sasuke used to destroy Oro's hideout, so we can't assume it's Great Dragon Flame Jutsu.

Those hand signs are for all of Sasuke's fire styles. Including the weak one he used against Haku.

If he really was able to use Kirin, then he very well would have, since he was consumed by even more hatred than when he frought Itachi. He didn't use it against Danzo, because he couldn't use it against Danzo. Also, you can't say it's because Kishi wants him to do what he does. Otherwise he'd be contradicting the manga itself. And Naruto still has the stuff he needs to summon him unlike Sasuke who needs CS2 Great Dragon Flames and Ammy to prep and use Kirin. Since he no longer has the Cursed Seal, he can no longer use Great Dragon Flames. And so, he can no longer use Kirin. Simple.

SageKakashi
05-02-2012, 05:15 AM
Would be a great fight.

Not sure on the outcome need to put more thought into it.

JLI2infinity
05-04-2012, 06:44 AM
Since when does CS2 grant you more chakra? And we don't know what fire style Sasuke used to destroy Oro's hideout, so we can't assume it's Great Dragon Flame Jutsu.

Those hand signs are for all of Sasuke's fire styles. Including the weak one he used against Haku.

If he really was able to use Kirin, then he very well would have, since he was consumed by even more hatred than when he frought Itachi. He didn't use it against Danzo, because he couldn't use it against Danzo. Also, you can't say it's because Kishi wants him to do what he does. Otherwise he'd be contradicting the manga itself. And Naruto still has the stuff he needs to summon him unlike Sasuke who needs CS2 Great Dragon Flames and Ammy to prep and use Kirin. Since he no longer has the Cursed Seal, he can no longer use Great Dragon Flames. And so, he can no longer use Kirin. Simple.


No, no, no basic logical fallacy: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

It was not stated that Sasuke cannot use Kirin anymore nor was it stated that he needed CS2 to use it the first time. Your just making a huge assumption. I could easily explain him not using Kirin against Danzo another way. When he used Kirin on Itachi, Sasuke was trying to kill his brother with his own power, that was his enitre motivation and a recurring theme throughout the fight. However, when he went against Danzo he was fighting to bring honor to and avenge the Uchiha clan and Itachi. It makes sense for him to use the techniques that he inherited from Itachi (i.e. Susano'o and Amaterasu) even when Sasuke used his genjutsu he made an image of crows and Itachi.

megabbaut
05-04-2012, 08:20 AM
No, no, no basic logical fallacy: Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

It was not stated that Sasuke cannot use Kirin anymore nor was it stated that he needed CS2 to use it the first time. Your just making a huge assumption. I could easily explain him not using Kirin against Danzo another way. When he used Kirin on Itachi, Sasuke was trying to kill his brother with his own power, that was his enitre motivation and a recurring theme throughout the fight. However, when he went against Danzo he was fighting to bring honor to and avenge the Uchiha clan and Itachi. It makes sense for him to use the techniques that he inherited from Itachi (i.e. Susano'o and Amaterasu) even when Sasuke used his genjutsu he made an image of crows and Itachi.
It doesn't have to be stated. It's simple logic. Here's how he prepped Kirin before:

CS2 + Great Dragon Flames + Itachi's Amaterasu = Kirin

Sasuke no longer has the former two. CS2 was required for Kirin, because CS2 was required for Great Dragon Flames. They were what changed the weather conditions in the first place. Amaterasu alone will not be enough to prep Kirin. This is evident, because when Sasuke used Amaterasu on KB it didn't affect the weather at all.

You are the one making huge assumptions, because while it was true that he was avenging the Uchiha Clan and it's honor, nowhere was it implied that was the reason he did not even attempt to use Kirin. He even used other Chidori Variants, instead of his passed down MS techniques, to stab Danzo twice and kill him.

coil
05-04-2012, 03:28 PM
Sasuke no longer has the former two. CS2 was required for Kirin, because CS2 was required for Great Dragon Flames.
Are you sure? Was that stated during his fight with Itachi? If you remember the manga chapter I would like to read it.

Either way I don't think Sauke not having Kirin would make too much of a difference for Garra. Sasuke could easily out speed garra's sand and out him in skill. Garra's defense is a problem, but it has been peirced before.

Uchiha Sora
05-05-2012, 07:20 AM
I forgot about this thread :lol:

And mega it was never stated that CS2 was required for Kirin. He needed more chakra cuz he just used Oral Rebirth, which require a ceap ton of chakra as Itachi said. Thats also hkw Sasuke pulled out that extra chidori on Gaara back in the day. And Sasuke used a fire jutsu that busted the entire ceiling of Oro's hideout(that one room) And Dragon flame only put a few holes in it.

Sasuke has an extremely large chakra resovoir and he can't use Great Dragon Flames?He was gonna use it on Team 7. Oro stopped him. Why would Oro stop him if it would backfire?
And that "He didn't use it cuz he couldn't" doesn't work unless they actually stated that. If he used Kirin he would've busted the bridge, himself, Karin, And Danzo wouldn't have his ending monologue, and then Tobi may have even told him about Shisuis eye. If Sasuke used Kirin, there would have been less character development. PnJ/CIS. Why didn't Naruto use Gamabunta on Sasuke? PnJ/CIS. why didn't Kakashi just roflkamui Pain? That would have stopped the whole invasion. PnJ/CIS

I'll look at your older post later, I'm on my phone atm.

Mega your entire argument is based off CS2 being necessary for GDF which was Frankly never proven

megabbaut
05-05-2012, 09:40 AM
Are you sure? Was that stated during his fight with Itachi? If you remember the manga chapter I would like to read it.

Either way I don't think Sauke not having Kirin would make too much of a difference for Garra. Sasuke could easily out speed garra's sand and out him in skill. Garra's defense is a problem, but it has been peirced before.
Yeah, Itachi absorbed Orochimaru from inside Sasuke's body, so Sasuke lost all of Oro's powers. The Cursed Seal included.

Speed isn't going to save him from sand that keeps coming toward him. He does not have infinite stamina, he will eventually grow tired and the sand will catch him and he will lose. It doesn't matter if it was pierced before, Gaara's sand is much stronger than before.

I forgot about this thread

And mega it was never stated that CS2 was required for Kirin. He needed more chakra cuz he just used Oral Rebirth, which require a ceap ton of chakra as Itachi said. Thats also hkw Sasuke pulled out that extra chidori on Gaara back in the day. And Sasuke used a fire jutsu that busted the entire ceiling of Oro's hideout(that one room) And Dragon flame only put a few holes in it.

Sasuke has an extremely large chakra resovoir and he can't use Great Dragon Flames?He was gonna use it on Team 7. Oro stopped him. Why would Oro stop him if it would backfire?
And that "He didn't use it cuz he couldn't" doesn't work unless they actually stated that. If he used Kirin he would've busted the bridge, himself, Karin, And Danzo wouldn't have his ending monologue, and then Tobi may have even told him about Shisuis eye. If Sasuke used Kirin, there would have been less character development. PnJ/CIS. Why didn't Naruto use Gamabunta on Sasuke? PnJ/CIS. why didn't Kakashi just roflkamui Pain? That would have stopped the whole invasion. PnJ/CIS

I'll look at your older post later, I'm on my phone atm.

Mega your entire argument is based off CS2 being necessary for GDF which was Frankly never proven
My previous post pretty much countered all of this already. It doesn't matter if it was never stated, If you look closely at how Sasuke prepped it, he needed Great Dragon Flames to help prep Kirin, and he doesn't have those anymore so he can't use Kirin anymore for reasons already stated. But if you want to put it that way, then it was never stated that the Cursed Seal increases your chakra in any way, shape, or form. The fire jutsu that busted the ceiling is what he needs, and without that he can't use Kirin.

It's not about not having enough chakra. It's about using CS2 to be able to even use it. Without it he just uses the original Dragon Flames. Proof that it was Great Dragon Flames that he was going to use on Team 7? He didn't even try to spit ANYTHING out of his mouth.
Except the fact that it was already proven with simple logic that I already told you about. If he really would've busted the bridge then he would've used his hawk. Sasuke really wanted to kill Danzo that badly. He definitely would've used Kirin if he was able to. I already talked about the Gamabunta thing. He didn't Kamui Pain because the stress from MS would get him killed by the other bodies.

If it was never proven then why didn't he ever use it in base? Why did he go into CS2 first before using it? And don't tell me he was low on chakra because again, there's no proof that the Cursed Seal increases your chakra.

Rasengan SageX5
05-05-2012, 10:33 AM
Even if Sasuke still can use Kirin, the second he tries to use it he gets himself crushed by a ton of sand.

Uchiha Sora
05-05-2012, 10:37 AM
I already said how CS gives you chakra. How do you think Sasuke pulled that extra chidori out when he went over his limit fighting Gaara? How do you think Sasuke was surging with chakra the first time he used it? It even says that it gives you chakra in the data books.

There is no proof that CS2 is required for GDF.

Sasuke made the tiger hand sign already, so he was gonna do it at some point.
You keep saying he "needs" GDF. There is nothing that suggests that either. He can use ammy more efficiently now too. GDF just sped the process up. He had a fire jutsu that blasted Oro's ceiling off. And then continued to stomp Team 7 after. My money is that was GDF but it doesn't matter.

@The Gama/Kamui comment: Sasuke has the stuff he needs too. Never needed CS2. Only if he's low on chakra.

I don't remember the first time he kamui'd something in that fight, but he realized he was outmatched and still didnt kamui them

@Sage X5 He could use his hawk. I'm not saying Sasuke wins but I'm saying it's an option. Gaara wouldn't know what he was doing either

megabbaut
05-05-2012, 12:05 PM
I already said how CS gives you chakra. How do you think Sasuke pulled that extra chidori out when he went over his limit fighting Gaara? How do you think Sasuke was surging with chakra the first time he used it? It even says that it gives you chakra in the data books.

There is no proof that CS2 is required for GDF.

Sasuke made the tiger hand sign already, so he was gonna do it at some point.
You keep saying he "needs" GDF. There is nothing that suggests that either. He can use ammy more efficiently now too. GDF just sped the process up. He had a fire jutsu that blasted Oro's ceiling off. And then continued to stomp Team 7 after. My money is that was GDF but it doesn't matter.

@The Gama/Kamui comment: Sasuke has the stuff he needs too. Never needed CS2. Only if he's low on chakra.

I don't remember the first time he kamui'd something in that fight, but he realized he was outmatched and still didnt kamui them

@Sage X5 He could use his hawk. I'm not saying Sasuke wins but I'm saying it's an option. Gaara wouldn't know what he was doing either
That wasn't him getting extra chakra. that was like, the second time he used it that day. Kakashi stated that Sasuke was only able to use two Chidoris a day. When Sasuke tried to use a third one, he fell and was about to get killed until Naruto showed up to rescue him. And the first time he used it, he wasn't out of chakra before that either. He was just knocked unconscious after Oro gave it to him.

Sasuke went CS2 before he used them. If CS2 wasn't needed, then he wouldn't have went into CS2 in the first place. That, and he has never used it in base. It's like saying Chidori Lament can be done in base.

That tiger sign is for all of Sasuke's fire jutsu, including the weak one he used against Haku. He needs GDF, because that's what accomplished most of the weather changing conditions. None of Sasuke's other fire jutsu were able to change the atmosphere like that. GDF is unlike any other fire jutsu where it just keeps going up. Ammy alone is not going to be able to change the weather, because it did nothing to it when Sasuke used it against Killer Bee. There was a lot of Ammy, but no changes in the weather. And we don't know which fire style that was. If it was GDF it would kept going instead uf blowing up, like in the Itachi fight.

He definitely needs CS2. For GDF. For Kirin. Without it, no GDF. And no Kirin.

He didn't notice he was outmatched until his opening to Raikiri the Deva Path was demolished by Asura getting in the way and blowing up. That's when he used Kamui to get rid of the needle Deva threw at him and the missile that went after Choji.

The Hawk wouldn't make a difference. He'd be running away the whole fight like Gaara vs Deidara. Gaara caught the bird, here he does it again.

Narutorious
05-05-2012, 02:03 PM
My question is why would Sasuke need Kirin to get through Gaara's sand, as Sasuke show in the past, he can get threw it with a simple Chidori, why would it be any difference now? Not to mention Susano.

megabbaut
05-05-2012, 05:22 PM
My question is why would Sasuke need Kirin to get through Gaara's sand, as Sasuke show in the past, he can get threw it with a simple Chidori, why would it be any difference now? Not to mention Susano.
And my question is why do people always compare Chunin Exam Gaara to the Gaara who is now a Kazekage? Sasuke isn't getting close enough to use Chidori anyway and even if he does Gaara will block it since he blocked a lightning kick from A. Susanoo gets buried by quicksand and Sasuke gets coffin'd/buried horribly.

JLI2infinity
05-06-2012, 10:37 AM
It doesn't have to be stated. It's simple logic. Here's how he prepped Kirin before:

CS2 + Great Dragon Flames + Itachi's Amaterasu = Kirin

Sasuke no longer has the former two. CS2 was required for Kirin, because CS2 was required for Great Dragon Flames. They were what changed the weather conditions in the first place. Amaterasu alone will not be enough to prep Kirin. This is evident, because when Sasuke used Amaterasu on KB it didn't affect the weather at all.

You are the one making huge assumptions, because while it was true that he was avenging the Uchiha Clan and it's honor, nowhere was it implied that was the reason he did not even attempt to use Kirin. He even used other Chidori Variants, instead of his passed down MS techniques, to stab Danzo twice and kill him.

How are you shifting the burden of proof onto me when you're making the positive claim?

I haven't assumed anything without evidence. You are the one who claims to know that CS2 is required for GDF. How do you know, well you seem to have this correlation implies causation attitude that you expect us to just accept.

Itachi's Amaterasu was directed at the forest around them and Itachi can't use Amaterasu to the extent or with the control that Sasuke can which was stated at the Kage Summit. It makes perfect sense that Sasuke can direct the Amaterasu at the sky (since he's the one controlling it and he doesn't have to trick Itachi into using the technique). And Amaterasu burns stronger than any other fire even GDF. The Amaterasu used on Bee was also not directed at the sky.

On top of that you have NO proof that CS2 is required for GDF, Sasuke didn't use his fire techniques against Bee if I were to go by your logic I could've assumed he'd lost those too by judging by one fight. I already told you that I can come up with an equally valid explanation for Sasuke not using Kirin or GDF on Danzo and that was because he wanted to avenge the Uchiha with sharingan techniques by the time he was about to finish Danzo he had already used up a majority of his chakra and couldn't prep Kirin anymore and it would've taken too long since Danzo had a hostage (which also made his MS techniques useless.) That explanation is just as valid as yours and doesn't involve me making unfounded assumptions about a character.

Even if I was to entertain your theory what would CS2 provide Sasuke with that he doesn't have now for GDF. Is it chakra? No, he already has large chakra reserves. Is it a dark chakra nature? No, Karin already stated that his chakra was colder than it was in CS2 state? Your point makes no sense. CS2 offers nothing that Sasuke doesn't have right now. The only thing Sasuke can't use is snake summons and that makes sense because (1) it was a contract he signed under Oro and most likely didn't want anymore and (2) he killed the giant boss snake.

And if you're arguing that CS2 doesn't give you more chakra I have to disagree, despite the opposite claim being stated in the databook entry for the Cursed Seal of Heaven, the whole point of CS is to force the body beyond it's normal limits. That is the reason Sasuke was able to perform the Chidori, that's the reason Sasuke became stronger than Zaku in the Forest of Death and Neji commented on the huge amount of dark chakra he was generating. It is the reason Sasuke's strength became even with Naruto's even though he was getting stomped seconds earlier. Cursed Seal increases your physical abilities and chakra. Why do you think that when Kirin didn't work on Itachi Sasuke tried to use it again, he was trying to force out more chakra because he didn't have any left.

Your simple logic has some serious flaws two of which I've pointed out above. You're using your interpretation of events and what Sasuke "should've" done as fact without any support.

megabbaut
05-06-2012, 12:42 PM
How are you shifting the burden of proof onto me when you're making the positive claim?

I haven't assumed anything without evidence. You are the one who claims to know that CS2 is required for GDF. How do you know, well you seem to have this correlation implies causation attitude that you expect us to just accept.

Itachi's Amaterasu was directed at the forest around them and Itachi can't use Amaterasu to the extent or with the control that Sasuke can which was stated at the Kage Summit. It makes perfect sense that Sasuke can direct the Amaterasu at the sky (since he's the one controlling it and he doesn't have to trick Itachi into using the technique). And Amaterasu burns stronger than any other fire even GDF. The Amaterasu used on Bee was also not directed at the sky.

On top of that you have NO proof that CS2 is required for GDF, Sasuke didn't use his fire techniques against Bee if I were to go by your logic I could've assumed he'd lost those too by judging by one fight. I already told you that I can come up with an equally valid explanation for Sasuke not using Kirin or GDF on Danzo and that was because he wanted to avenge the Uchiha with sharingan techniques by the time he was about to finish Danzo he had already used up a majority of his chakra and couldn't prep Kirin anymore and it would've taken too long since Danzo had a hostage (which also made his MS techniques useless.) That explanation is just as valid as yours and doesn't involve me making unfounded assumptions about a character.

Even if I was to entertain your theory what would CS2 provide Sasuke with that he doesn't have now for GDF. Is it chakra? No, he already has large chakra reserves. Is it a dark chakra nature? No, Karin already stated that his chakra was colder than it was in CS2 state? Your point makes no sense. CS2 offers nothing that Sasuke doesn't have right now. The only thing Sasuke can't use is snake summons and that makes sense because (1) it was a contract he signed under Oro and most likely didn't want anymore and (2) he killed the giant boss snake.

And if you're arguing that CS2 doesn't give you more chakra I have to disagree, despite the opposite claim being stated in the databook entry for the Cursed Seal of Heaven, the whole point of CS is to force the body beyond it's normal limits. That is the reason Sasuke was able to perform the Chidori, that's the reason Sasuke became stronger than Zaku in the Forest of Death and Neji commented on the huge amount of dark chakra he was generating. It is the reason Sasuke's strength became even with Naruto's even though he was getting stomped seconds earlier. Cursed Seal increases your physical abilities and chakra. Why do you think that when Kirin didn't work on Itachi Sasuke tried to use it again, he was trying to force out more chakra because he didn't have any left.

Your simple logic has some serious flaws two of which I've pointed out above. You're using your interpretation of events and what Sasuke "should've" done as fact without any support.
Because I've already proven it, and now you must prove me wrong.

Sasuke went CS2 before using GDF on Itachi. If CS2 wasn't required for GDF, then he wouldn't have went CS2 at all. That and he has NEVER used it in base. This is the third time this had been said, and the third time you have ignored it. Until you can prove that Sasuke can use GDF in base, (which he has never done before) this still stands.

You're going to have to prove that Amaterasu alone can prep Kirin. That, and directing Amaterasu at the sky doesn't work. It's not like Sasuke looks at the sky and suddenly the sky is on fire. GDF just kept going into the sky which was perfect for Kirin prep.

I've already provided proof for that, and Sasuke still had the stuff to use fire jutsu against Bee, unlike GDF which he needed CS2 for. And, I have said before that, while it was true that he was avenging the Uchiha Clan and it's honor, nowhere was it implied that was the reason he did not even attempt to use Kirin. He even used other Chidori Variants, instead of his passed down MS techniques, to stab Danzo twice and kill him. This is another statement you've ignored. The vengeance of the Uchiha clan excuse doesn't work here.

Um Chidori Lament? He obviously can't use that in base, since it's CS2 increasing the power of the regular Chidori technique. Same with GDF. It's CS2 increasing the power of his fire jutsu. What you're saying is like saying Naruto can use Kyuubi chakra arms in base.

You have no proof that CS2 increases your chakra. That's actually wrong, the point of CS is to increase the power of your techniques. I've already provided an example of this. Sasuke was able to perform the Chidori against Gaara without the help of CS whatsoever. In fact, all the CS did after the Zaku fight and before the Sound Four abduction was give Sasuke pain and (and restrict his mobility in the case of Sasuke vs Shukaku Gaara). His CS activated after Kirin failed because Oro was breaking out of his body due to lack of chakra.

I've given tons of support, all you've done is ignore it and ask for it again.

Uchiha Sora
05-06-2012, 01:35 PM
That wasn't him getting extra chakra. that was like, the second time he used it that day. Kakashi stated that Sasuke was only able to use two Chidoris a day. When Sasuke tried to use a third one, he fell and was about to get killed until Naruto showed up to rescue him. And the first time he used it, he wasn't out of chakra before that either. He was just knocked unconscious after Oro gave it to him.

Nope. After Sasuke used two, he thought back about Kakashi's warning. Sasuke tried chidori a third time, and charged at gaara, and the chidori faded out a bit cuz he didn't have enough chakra, and Gaara was about to crush him. Next panel you see Sasuke, with a full chidori already cut through Gaara, with his curse mark on. (Thats where his chidori cinematic jutsu comes from in Storm 1 and Storm G except he has a curse mark in the manga) THEN Sasuke fell down, and Naruto showed up.128 page 16. The chapter is even called "Beyond His Limits" :lol:


How do you think Sasuke was overflowing with chakra when he rape stomped Zaku? lmao. Dosu even warned Zaku "His chakra is too large! How can it be this much?" THe same sort of comment came from Neji. He even went over his limit during his fight with Naruto, but the curse mark gave him more chakra for more chidori.

Seriously though, I always thought CS giving you chakra was common knowledge.

Sasuke went CS2 before he used them. If CS2 wasn't needed, then he wouldn't have went into CS2 in the first place. That, and he has never used it in base. It's like saying Chidori Lament can be done in base.

Except there's nothing that suggests GDF can't be used outside CS2. Sasuke can already use the highest ranking fire jutsu, amaterasu, in base multiple times.While maintaining Susano'o.

That tiger sign is for all of Sasuke's fire jutsu, including the weak one he used against Haku. He needs GDF, because that's what accomplished most of the weather changing conditions. None of Sasuke's other fire jutsu were able to change the atmosphere like that. GDF is unlike any other fire jutsu where it just keeps going up. Ammy alone is not going to be able to change the weather, because it did nothing to it when Sasuke used it against Killer Bee. There was a lot of Ammy, but no changes in the weather. And we don't know which fire style that was. If it was GDF it would kept going instead uf blowing up, like in the Itachi fight.
Because he never shot them into the sky. Its not gonna change the weather in seconds. Sasuke put it out about a minute later.

A fire jutsu with that AoE and destructive power should be more than enough. Especially if he can use it that casually. Who knows, maybe thats why he was gonna use Kirin. Because the heat from the fire jutsu/rising smoke prepped one small enough for Team 7.

And the fact that he only use one hand sign for GDF implies that he has mastered that jutsu. Because normally it requires like 5 iirc. And when you master a jutsu, you can use it a lot more as Sasuke uses chidori like its a basic clone jutsu now. And sometimes he doesn't even USE hand signs for it.
(Tobirama could use Water Dragon jutsu with one hand sign when it normally required like 30-40)

He definitely needs CS2. For GDF. For Kirin. Without it, no GDF. And no Kirin. Nope. There are other ways to heat the atmosphere without that, especially with Sasuke's large chakra reserves

He didn't notice he was outmatched until his opening to Raikiri the Deva Path was demolished by Asura getting in the way and blowing up. That's when he used Kamui to get rid of the needle Deva threw at him and the missile that went after Choji. gotta look back at it

The Hawk wouldn't make a difference. He'd be running away the whole fight like Gaara vs Deidara. Gaara caught the bird, here he does it again.
Well I'm not debating for Sasuke. I'm just saying that Kirin is still a useable technique.

megabbaut
05-06-2012, 02:46 PM
Nope. After Sasuke used two, he thought back about Kakashi's warning. Sasuke tried chidori a third time, and charged at gaara, and the chidori faded out a bit cuz he didn't have enough chakra, and Gaara was about to crush him. Next panel you see Sasuke, with a full chidori already cut through Gaara, with his curse mark on. (Thats where his chidori cinematic jutsu comes from in Storm 1 and Storm G except he has a curse mark in the manga) THEN Sasuke fell down, and Naruto showed up.128 page 16. The chapter is even called "Beyond His Limits"
That's because the CS increased the power of his Chidori a bit, and afterwards it corroded his body restricting his movement. And the chapter is called "Beyond His Limits" since the CS was actually put to use.

How do you think Sasuke was overflowing with chakra when he rape stomped Zaku? lmao. Dosu even warned Zaku "His chakra is too large! How can it be this much?" THe same sort of comment came from Neji. He even went over his limit during his fight with Naruto, but the curse mark gave him more chakra for more chidori.

Seriously though, I always thought CS giving you chakra was common knowledge.
That's basically like Naruto using the Kyuubi on Haku, his chakra was overflowing as well when he stomped Haku. He even commented on his chakra too IIRC. I'd say the CS, IF it does increase your chakra, it also increases the power of your techniques. Like turning Chidori into Chidori Lament, or Dragon Flame Jutsu in Great Dragon Flame jutsu.

Except there's nothing that suggests GDF can't be used outside CS2. Sasuke can already use the highest ranking fire jutsu, amaterasu, in base multiple times.While maintaining Susano'o.
Uh uh dude, now you gotta prove that Sasuke can use GDF in base :lol: since, you know, he's never done it before and has only been shown using it in CS2. Unless you're saying he can also use Chidori Lament in base which is impossible. Also, what does Ammy have to do with this?

Because he never shot them into the sky. Its not gonna change the weather in seconds. Sasuke put it out about a minute later.
Well if that's the case then it will never prep Kirin. It's not a projectile, it's more of an ocular jutsu where whatever you look at is consumed by fire that comes out of nowhere.

A fire jutsu with that AoE and destructive power should be more than enough. Especially if he can use it that casually. Who knows, maybe thats why he was gonna use Kirin. Because the heat from the fire jutsu/rising smoke prepped one small enough for Team 7.
You're underestimating the amount of prep Kirin needs. Ammy isn't that destructive, it spreads very slowly. And again, we have no idea if the jutsu he was going to use on team 7 was Kirin. The two jutsu aren't even remotely the same. And there was no smoke in the fight against Team 7.

And the fact that he only use one hand sign for GDF implies that he has mastered that jutsu. Because normally it requires like 5 iirc. And when you master a jutsu, you can use it a lot more as Sasuke uses chidori like its a basic clone jutsu now. And sometimes he doesn't even USE hand signs for it.
(Tobirama could use Water Dragon jutsu with one hand sign when it normally required like 30-40)
He only uses one hand sign for all of his fire jutsu. And that still doesn't mean that he can use it in base.

Nope. There are other ways to heat the atmosphere without that, especially with Sasuke's large chakra reserves
Nope, Sasuke has shown one way and one way only to prep Kirin, and that is with GDF which requires Kirin.

Uchiha Sora
05-06-2012, 07:36 PM
Wow just wrote a friggin paragraph then i pressed one of my bookmarks and now everythings gone -_- Makes me miss my macbook... I'll rewrite it 2moro lmao im goin to bed

JLI2infinity
05-07-2012, 08:27 AM
Because I've already proven it, and now you must prove me wrong.

Sasuke went CS2 before using GDF on Itachi. If CS2 wasn't required for GDF, then he wouldn't have went CS2 at all. That and he has NEVER used it in base. This is the third time this had been said, and the third time you have ignored it. Until you can prove that Sasuke can use GDF in base, (which he has never done before) this still stands.



I just bold, underlined, italicized that thing to show you how big of an error that is. That statement is just W-R-O-N-G. I don't mind repeating myself but correlation does not imply causation. Naruto used Oodama Rasengan for the first time in his Zero Tailed Kyuubi state that doesn't mean he couldn't use it in base form!!! Just because Sasuke turned CS2 to use GDF doesn't mean he couldn't perform the technique in base it probably just means he wanted the technique to have more power like you've pointed out.

I never felt the need to address this point because it was obvious. Look at all of his fights after Itachi. Against Bee he didn't use any fire techniques (not just GDF), at the Kage Summit again NO fire techniques...should I assume that he magically lost his fire release? And against Danzo he only used one fire technique his basic fireball jutsu because (1) he needed to conserve chakra to wait out Danzo's Izanagi and (2) the wind from Danzo's summon was going to make Sasuke's attack more powerful anyways. There I have successfully addressed why he didn't use it in base no need to bring it up anymore.

You're going to have to prove that Amaterasu alone can prep Kirin. That, and directing Amaterasu at the sky doesn't work. It's not like Sasuke looks at the sky and suddenly the sky is on fire. GDF just kept going into the sky which was perfect for Kirin prep.

I've already provided proof for that, and Sasuke still had the stuff to use fire jutsu against Bee, unlike GDF which he needed CS2 for. And, I have said before that, while it was true that he was avenging the Uchiha Clan and it's honor, nowhere was it implied that was the reason he did not even attempt to use Kirin. He even used other Chidori Variants, instead of his passed down MS techniques, to stab Danzo twice and kill him. This is another statement you've ignored. The vengeance of the Uchiha clan excuse doesn't work here.

Um Chidori Lament? He obviously can't use that in base, since it's CS2 increasing the power of the regular Chidori technique. Same with GDF. It's CS2 increasing the power of his fire jutsu. What you're saying is like saying Naruto can use Kyuubi chakra arms in base.

You have no proof that CS2 increases your chakra. That's actually wrong, the point of CS is to increase the power of your techniques. I've already provided an example of this. Sasuke was able to perform the Chidori against Gaara without the help of CS whatsoever. In fact, all the CS did after the Zaku fight and before the Sound Four abduction was give Sasuke pain and (and restrict his mobility in the case of Sasuke vs Shukaku Gaara). His CS activated after Kirin failed because Oro was breaking out of his body due to lack of chakra.

I've given tons of support, all you've done is ignore it and ask for it again.

I never said that it was implied that's why he didn't use Kirin I was just thinking about another plausible explanation for why he didn't do it that doesn't involve me assuming I know things that haven't been stated. You keep pointing out that my theory wasn't implied anywhere NEITHER WAS YOURS...Sasuke hasn't mentioned losing that ability since losing CS2 nor is it implied.

You have a compelling argument with your comparison of Chidori Lament and GDF the only problem is that GDF is an entirely different fire technique that takes a different form. What your saying can be stated as nothing more than a theory, not a fact. If it was simply the CS augmenting his fireball technique than a bigger more powerful fireball would've made more sense similar to Madara's Inferno technique, not a jutsu that takes on an entirely new form. Chidori Lament looks exactly like Chidori just with black electricity from the added chakra. And your Kyuubi arms comparison just makes no sense so I won't address it.

I don't need to debate whether or not CS grants more chakra anymore it's directly stated in the databooks written by Kishi himself, call me a Kishi fanboy or whatever but when information isn't contradictory to on panel feats I accept the author's word on his own work not someone else's. On top of that Sasuke was out of chakra and had already used his two Chidori shots yet after activating CS he was granted another one even more powerful than before that shows that it increases the power of your techs AND gives you more chakra.

On top of all of this I can still say that you can't know whether or not Amaterasu is enough to make Kirin. Like I said before Sasuke can use far more of it than Itachi can (due to EMS and larger chakra supplies) and he can control it's shape.

megabbaut
05-07-2012, 12:37 PM
I just bold, underlined, italicized that thing to show you how big of an error that is. That statement is just W-R-O-N-G. I don't mind repeating myself but correlation does not imply causation. Naruto used Oodama Rasengan for the first time in his Zero Tailed Kyuubi state that doesn't mean he couldn't use it in base form!!! Just because Sasuke turned CS2 to use GDF doesn't mean he couldn't perform the technique in base it probably just means he wanted the technique to have more power like you've pointed out.

I never felt the need to address this point because it was obvious. Look at all of his fights after Itachi. Against Bee he didn't use any fire techniques (not just GDF), at the Kage Summit again NO fire techniques...should I assume that he magically lost his fire release? And against Danzo he only used one fire technique his basic fireball jutsu because (1) he needed to conserve chakra to wait out Danzo's Izanagi and (2) the wind from Danzo's summon was going to make Sasuke's attack more powerful anyways. There I have successfully addressed why he didn't use it in base no need to bring it up anymore.
Thank you for at least showing that you aren't ignoring it. The Oodama Rasengan is an entirely different story. It was actually proven that Naruto could use it in base, because Jiraiya was teaching him the technique. However, the Vermillion Rasengan that he used in KN1 form against Sasuke in the VotE is definitely not something he can do in base form. Without CS2, Sasuke would just be using the original Dragon Flames which aren't powerful enough to prep Kirin, and the GDF is just an enhanced version of it like Chidori Lament is an enhanced version of Chidori.

Sasuke still has the stuff he needs to use his fire release, but it's much unlike Kirin where it'd be perfect sense if his hatred against Danzo was as big as his hatred against Itachi back then, he'd obvious use his most destructive jutsu to bring Danzo down. Which is Kirin, which he didn't use. But we're done with that topic as you said, and now to move on.

I never said that it was implied that's why he didn't use Kirin I was just thinking about another plausible explanation for why he didn't do it that doesn't involve me assuming I know things that haven't been stated. You keep pointing out that my theory wasn't implied anywhere NEITHER WAS YOURS...Sasuke hasn't mentioned losing that ability since losing CS2 nor is it implied.
It wasn't implied that he lost his CS2 form either. But by looking at the circumstances, it's clear that he lost it. Same with GDF. Which he used CS2 for. Not because he was out of chakra, because beforehand he used Chidori Stream, Chidori Sharp Spear, Fire Ball Jutsu, Chidori again, then fireball jutsu again. Followed by Oral Rebirth. And now he's suddenly out of chakra? Yeah right.

You have a compelling argument with your comparison of Chidori Lament and GDF the only problem is that GDF is an entirely different fire technique that takes a different form. What your saying can be stated as nothing more than a theory, not a fact. If it was simply the CS augmenting his fireball technique than a bigger more powerful fireball would've made more sense similar to Madara's Inferno technique, not a jutsu that takes on an entirely new form. Chidori Lament looks exactly like Chidori just with black electricity from the added chakra. And your Kyuubi arms comparison just makes no sense so I won't address it.
That's because it actually takes fruition from it's name, and the GDF IS the bigger more powerful fireball. It didn't really move to another form all that much.

I don't need to debate whether or not CS grants more chakra anymore it's directly stated in the databooks written by Kishi himself, call me a Kishi fanboy or whatever but when information isn't contradictory to on panel feats I accept the author's word on his own work not someone else's. On top of that Sasuke was out of chakra and had already used his two Chidori shots yet after activating CS he was granted another one even more powerful than before that shows that it increases the power of your techs AND gives you more chakra.
Databooks aren't considered facts since it contradicts the manga a lot, unless the manga supports it instead. the extra Chidori has already been addressed in a previous post.

On top of all of this I can still say that you can't know whether or not Amaterasu is enough to make Kirin. Like I said before Sasuke can use far more of it than Itachi can (due to EMS and larger chakra supplies) and he can control it's shape.
But that alone is not enough to prep it. He needs more heat to go into the atmosphere. Regular fireballs have not shown the firepower to affect the weather, and GDF is his only fire technique (besides Amaterasu) that has accomplished this feat.

TobiramaSenju307
07-13-2012, 06:30 AM
remeber gaara has been fightng madara so he ahs experience and feats dealing with susano and genjutsu. add onto that his flight ability, sand sensing, long range attacks and ability to attack from any and all direction.

Gaara's "Ultimate Defense" was pierced by a PTS Sasuke fresh out of training with a two-burst per day limit. Even his Shukaku arm was ripped off from it.that very same sand got much much stronger in SRA, timeskip and war arc.


What's he going to do against a bar of concentrated Chidori Stream from a Sasuke that's well above CS2 levels of chakra at this point?
block it casually?seal sasuke in a pyramid?

Garra's sand can only move so fast, and Garra hasn't shown half of the speed Sasuke has
so reacting to A and 5 susanos isnt speed?

but he has Gaara's weakness,
gaaras sole weakness is oil and high speed taijutsu

PrinceofPeace
07-13-2012, 01:17 PM
Garra spams sand attacks from the sky.

Amaterasu doe snothing against sand
Susanoo could be carried or drowned in sand