Was George Zimmerman Justifed?

[Wooster]

George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Was he justufied?

Here's an article: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/294609/it-s-not-about-stand-your-ground-john-r-lott-jr

[Yori]

He killed someone and is still free. He followed this kid after the cops told him to stop so strike 1. He said the kid looked like he was up to no good, stroke 2. After he shot the kid all the boy had was skittles and some Arizonia Ice Tea, strike 3.

I just find it funny how in this country if you shoot a kid your not arrested but if you throw flower on Kim Kardashian you are arrested immediately. America, America, America.

[PlatonicZombie]

He killed someone and is still free. He followed this kid after the cops told him to stop so strike 1. He said the kid looked like he was up to no good, stroke 2. After he shot the kid all the boy had was skittles and some Arizonia Ice Tea, strike 3.

I just find it funny how in this country if you shoot a kid your not arrested but if you throw flower on Kim Kardashian you are arrested immediately. America, America, America.


Aren't we great? `|(

[Wooster]

Zimmerman was invistigating someone who appeared suspicious, which was his duty as captain of the neighborhood watch He was only told he did not have to keep track of him by the police not that he shouldn't.

He then lost track of Martin. Martin approached him from behind and decked him by his car. Then Martin proceeded to straddle Zimmerman and beat his head into the ground, verified by a witness by the way and Zimmerman's physical condition afterwards. After Zmmerman screamed for help and no one came. He then shot this 17-year 6'2" man that was beating the crap out of him.

Please tell me what he did wrong.

[Yori]

Sorry but please tell me how will you still have movement in your body if your head was banged against the ground numerous of times?

Also did you hear the 911 call? Did you hear Martin screaming for help numerous of times, seconds later you can hear the gun off. So here is the deal, when Martin was screaming for help Zimmerman should have fall back and let the cops came. No he took matter in his own hands and ended the kid life. Just search for the 911 call and you can hear Martin screaming and the gun going off as plain as day.

[Err]

Doesn't this happen everyday? People getting shot by other people?

[Wooster]

Sorry but please tell me how will you still have movement in your body if your head was banged against the ground numerous of times?

Also did you hear the 911 call? Did you hear Martin screaming for help numerous of times, seconds later you can hear the gun off. So here is the deal, when Martin was screaming for help Zimmerman should have fall back and let the cops came. No he took matter in his own hands and ended the kid life. Just search for the 911 call and you can hear Martin screaming and the gun going off as plain as day.Witness and physical conditions verify that's what happened. WE are not God. We can't know everything.

It has been verified by the witness that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, not Martin.

[Yori]

The same was said for Martin. Zimmerman screaming for help, but he immediately shuts up right after the gun go off? Doesn't sound right. He seen standing over martins body? Doesn't sound right. There have also been reports that other than the women and her family in the 911 call, there are two voices. The screaming one we heard, and a calmer voice. Reports have also said throughout the screaming the calmer voice has been heard speaking thoughout the screaming.

So with that said, if I'm trayvon am I going to be talking to you in a calm voice while I'm whooping your ass for following me, because I look like I'm up to no good? No. If I'm Zimmerman am I going to stop screaming immediately after I shot my gun? Also don't forget I'm standing over the person I shot body, but I'm so injured from getting my ass whooped..

Just doesn't sound right. Zimmermans 911 call even raised questions on whether he was intoxicated throughout the whole ordeal.

[Wooster]

That is all speculation. The police can only go on evidence all of which points to self defense.

The witness saw a man in a hoodie on top of a man in a red shirt. Heard the man in a red shirt scream for help and then a gut shot, then he called 911.

How the confrontation started we can't know besides what Zimmerman says, which of course would be biased. But at the time of the shot, Zimmerman was acting in self defense.

[tsuki]

That is all speculation. The police can only go on evidence all of which points to self defense.

The witness saw a man in a hoodie on top of a man in a red shirt. Heard the man in a red shirt scream for help and then a gut shot, then he called 911.

You keep saying that, but there have been several reports of witnesses reporting the exact opposite.

So you are basing your decision on testimony that may or may not be accurate.

[Yori]

Exactly what I been saying

[PlatonicZombie]

You keep saying that, but there have been several reports of witnesses reporting the exact opposite.

So you are basing your decision on testimony that may or may not be accurate.


Or maybe he's trying to start a debate since you're in the debate section... :geek:

[Kingsnoke]

Whether or not Zimmerman was justified is irrelevant. The police should have at least taken him in until the details of the incident were clear.
The other thing that the police did that Kingsnoke finds really weird is the fact that the police made no real effort to identify Trayvon after the incident. They put his body in a morgue under the name John Doe until he was identified by his parents when they were filling out a missing persons form. Trayvon had a cell phone on him, and had the police made any effort to identify him they could have.

[Wooster]

Sorry, there are no witnesses that support the so called shooting an "innocent" Martin. theory.

From the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326,0,4845076.story):

As Florida braced itself for what could be the biggest day of protest yet in the Trayvon Martin (http://www.latimes.com/topic/crime-law-justice/crimes/crime-victims/trayvon-martin-PEOCVC000188.topic) case, police revealed new details that depict the slain 17-year-old as the aggressor and appear to support George Zimmerman's claim that he was acting in self-defense when he shot the teenager.
Martin was killed one month ago today. That's one month of justice denied, according to protesters who are expected to amass throughout the day to continue their demand for Zimmerman's arrest in the Sanford, Fla. case.
A forum hosted by CNN (http://www.latimes.com/topic/economy-business-finance/media-industry/news-agency/cnn-%28tv-network%29-ORCRP000008070.topic) commentator Roland Martin is being held at noon (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-martin-roland-martin-20120326,0,447118.story) today in that city, followed by a 4 p.m. rally that is expected to draw thousands (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/national/thousands-expected-attend-rally-trayvon-martins-fa/nLcnH/). Civil rights activist Jesse Jackson (http://www.latimes.com/topic/social-issues/racism/jesse-jackson-PEPLT007437.topic) plans to lead protesters to the Sanford City Commission meeting being held this evening, and attended by the slain teen's parents. And students at Florida State University, the University of Florida and Florida A&M University will hold rallies on their campuses.
The Orlando Sentinel is reporting (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_suv-police-miami-schools) that police sources say Martin was the aggressor on Feb. 26, knocking Zimmerman to the ground with a single punch and then climbing on top of the 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain and slamming the back of his head into the ground. Police say this account, given by Zimmerman, is supported by eyewitnesses, according to the Sentinel's report.
One such witness reportedly told police that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, striking the man, while Zimmerman cried out for help. The attack left Zimmerman bloodied, police sources told the Sentinel, and led him to fire at Martin in self-defense.
Police say Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a fat lip and confirm that the back of his head was cut. He received first aid (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/health-treatments/first-aid-0700300027.topic) at the scene but refused to go to the hospital and received medical treatment the following day, according to the Sentinel's sources.
The Sentinel's story also makes public new details about the circumstances leading up to the deadly confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin.
At the time, Martin was suspended from high school after he was found to be in possession of an empty marijuana baggie, according to the Sentinel. Martin's school has a "zero-tolerance" drug policy, the newspaper added.
Zimmerman was heading to the grocery store when he spotted Martin and called police to report a black youth acting suspiciously, possibly on drugs.
Zimmerman stepped out of his SUV to follow Martin, even though a police dispatcher told him he didn't need to do so.
Zimmerman told police he he'd lost sight of Martin and was heading back to his car when the youth suddenly stepped into his path. According to the Sentinel, Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cellphone. Martin then said something like, "Well, you do now" and punched him, according to the Sentinel's sources.

Even the Zimmerman's story that is not verified makes sense. Was not the confrontation heard on Zimmerman's cell phone? WHy would he hunt a kid down and then call 911 and not talk to them?
Makes more sense he would try to call 911 when confronted and then had the living stuffing knocked out of him.

The details are pretty clear. They were just not released to the public. Everyone rushed to an assumption before they knew the facts, which the police did know.

[Yori]

Ha giving the footage of Zimmerman the night of after the police too him in, Zimmerman had NO injures. If he was truly getting a beat down like he said then the guy shouldn't even be walking. Your ignoring that fact woo.

Also when trayvon body was in the morgue the examiner stated that there were NO bruises on trayvons hand. That would be impossible if he repeatedly hitting Zimmerman. Also the examiner stated that the way the gunshot had entered trayvons body, theres a strong possibility that this wasn't a point blank shot.

[Wooster]

That is grainy and is not dispositive. The police report is the police report. Zimmerman was treated for injuries.

You are looking for excuses now. It is certainly possible to punch someone without brusiing your hand. Not to mention banging someone's head agaisnt the ground does not require punching.

Edit: Ohh and are we suppose to ignore the mug shot of Zimmerman that we have already seen that backes up his injuries? :roll: ALso ,blows up the story that Zimmerman wasn't arrested. Unless being coffed and brought to the police station was for a tea party.

[tsuki]

If Martin was "supposedly" on top and beating him then why do several witness reports state that they found Zimmerman outside their home on top of Martin.

Oh and did we forget the part where the police didn't even try to identify Martin even though they had his cell phone. His parents came in to file a report on him being missing and found him in the morgue. Great Police work there.

Wooster you are just Bullshitting and not taking all of the facts, only the ones you like.

[Yori]

Wooster stop ignoring when I said that Immerman shouldn't even had movement in his body if he suffered that kind of beating. Your head being bashed to the ground over and over again, but you still have movement to pull out a gun, and pull the trigger? You still have the mobility to move on your own? Hell no

[Wooster]

If Martin was "supposedly" on top and beating him then why do several witness reports state that they found Zimmerman outside their home on top of Martin.

Oh and did we forget the part where the police didn't even try to identify Martin even though they had his cell phone. His parents came in to file a report on him being missing and found him in the morgue. Great Police work there.

Wooster you are just Bullshitting and not taking all of the facts, only the ones you like.You say things, where is your proof?

How does that have anythign to do with anything?

So far I have been the only one with cited facts. Follow your own advice.
Innocent until proven guilty, good sir. You haven't even gotten beyond unfounded allegations yet.
Wooster stop ignoring when I said that Immerman shouldn't even had movement in his body if he suffered that kind of beating. Your head being bashed to the ground over and over again, but you still have movement to pull out a gun, and pull the trigger? You still have the mobility to move on your own? Hell no
That is nonsensical.
Did you miss the part where is said he was treated, but then not go to the hospital until that next day? He was being beat on, explain how that would be impossible to reach for a gun and shoot.
Your arm is not your head.

He is another intersting fact, when police first let Martin's fater hear the tape, he said the person screaming for help was not his son. He later changed his story.

[Wooster]

Oh and ouch.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

It is shame when a piece of evidence goes agaisnt you.

[tsuki]

Here is a video of Zimmerman coming into the police: http://www.freep.com/article/20120329/NEWS07/203290468/Trayvon-Martin-s-dad-Video-of-shooter-at-station-proves-he-lied?odyssey=nav|head No bruising, no cuts, no scars to support his story of being beaten.

Testimony from girlfriend on phone with Martin: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-details-final-moments-before-the-2249251.html Guy was stalking him and then confronted and pushed him causing earpiece to fall out. Disputes claims that Zimmerman was "jumped"

Testimony of people finding Zimmerman straddling body: http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/25/10843593-witnesses-describe-trayvon-martins-final-moments-parents-say-he-was-headed-on-the-right-path

[tsuki]

Oh and ouch.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

It is shame when a piece of evidence goes agaisnt you.
Uhh, that just looks like his head. I don't see any cut or bruise. Just his head.

[Wooster]

Denial now I see.

How about you just admit there is no way to determine one way or anothr with that video particualrly it was taken after he was treated on the scene.

As for you links
1. Already discussed.

2. Her only evidence is what we already know. Martin knew he was being followed and confronted Zimmerman. The rest is assumptions on her part.

3. Witnesses after the gun shot. Meaning the didn't see what the witness saw before the gunshot, which backed Zimmerman's story. More assumption on witnesses part that a voice was not an adult. Pretty meaningless as 17-year old wouldn't sound like a child anyway. We already know a witness said Zimmerman screaming, so it was him.

[tsuki]

Denial now I see.

How about you just admit there is no way to determine one way or anothr with that video particualrly it was taken after he was treated on the scene.

As for you links
1. Already discussed.

2. Her only evidence is what we already know. Martin knew he was being followed and confronted Zimmerman. The rest is assumptions on her part.

3. Witnesses after the gun shot. Meaning the didn't see what the witness saw before the gunshot, which backed Zimmerman's story. More assumption on witnesses part that a voice was not an adult. Pretty meaningless as 17-year old wouldn't sound like a child anyway. We already know a witness said Zimmerman screaming, so it was him.

1. Actually he denied on scene treatment, from what I recall.

2. More like common sense. Some guy comes up to the person you are on the phone with and then all of a sudden it is silent and then disconnects.

3. It clearly says BEFORE the gun shot. No we don't. As I said earlier and provided in the link, the person who was screaming is in debate amongst the different testimonials. Don't just throw stuff out because it doesn't support you. And she said it sounded young, never said anything about a child, stop making stuff up.

[Wooster]

1. Actually he denied on scene treatment, from what I recall.

2. More like common sense. Some guy comes up to the person you are on the phone with and then all of a sudden it is silent and then disconnects.

3. It clearly says BEFORE the gun shot. No we don't. As I said earlier and provided in the link, the person who was screaming is in debate amongst the different testimonials. Don't just throw stuff out because it doesn't support you. And she said it sounded young, never said anything about a child, stop making stuff up.
Not true. He did not go to a hospital afterwards. He did receive on scene treatment.

An assumption. We are delaing with facts. You have yet to provide any that refutes what the witness saw. Namely, Martin was on top of ZImmerman.

It does not, it clearly says after. Reread your story.
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.

Now you are getting into sematics. Lets go back to what the witness said shall we?

It sounded young. It didn't sound like a grown man is my point. It sounded to me like someone was in distress and it wasn’t like a crying, sobbing boo-hoo, it was a definite whine
Grown man? What is not a grown man? Oh yes, a child. :roll:

Of course, all these witness statements are only to reporters well after the fact. People's memories tend to believe what they think happened. All this means, is the police report is a much better picture of what really happened.

[tsuki]

Not true. He did not go to a hospital afterwards. He did receive on scene treatment.

An assumption. We are delaing with facts. You have yet to provide any that refutes what the witness saw. Namely, Martin was on top of ZImmerman.

It does not, it clearly says after. Reread your story.
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.

Now you are getting into sematics. Lets go back to what the witness said shall we?

It sounded young. It didn't sound like a grown man is my point. It sounded to me like someone was in distress and it wasn’t like a crying, sobbing boo-hoo, it was a definite whine
Grown man? What is not a grown man? Oh yes, a child. :roll:

Of course, all these witness statements are only to reporters well after the fact. People's memories tend to believe what they think happened. All this means, is the police report is a much better picture of what really happened.
Even if he did, is that treatment supposed to make all the scars and bruising magically disappear? I don't think so.

“We both saw him straddling the body, basically, a foot on both sides of Trayvon’s body and his hands pressed on his back,” Cutcher said. How bout dem apples?

Eyewitnesses describe hearing what they thought was a young person in distress just before they heard the gunshot that killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Umm yeah, what was that? You forgot to read? Again

What is not a Grown Man? A TEENAGER! BOOM HEADSHOT! Suck on that!

Umm yeah, the police who let the main suspect walk away after a murder. Because their report is sure to be great. =D

I'm not going to debate with someone who doesn't debate in good faith, and comes up with crap and ignores stuff clearly presented in front of him.

[Wooster]

The video does not show Zimmerman is not injured, you just want to believe that. At best, it shows nothing one way or the other. Zimmerman did go to the hospital the next day for a broken nose. Medical records will show if that is true or not.

Yes, AFTER the gunshot. HE did just kill Martin, I imagine he might stand over the body afterwards. It certainly is not impossible, at least. Here let's try again:
Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Lamilla, say they went outside when they heard the gunshot and saw Zimmerman standing over Martin.

Trust me, the sound of a gunshot travels much faster than Cluther could go outside. Please, note that is the same person you quoted. And again, I am not contradicting any of these witnesses, how do you refute the witness in the police report that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman?

Tell me how you determine who is screaming by sound alone? The witness that saw it stated Zimmerman was screaming.

17-years is an old teenager and is a full grown man and sounds like a full grown man. I am sorry you don't understand the human growth cyle. When Zimmerman was getting the crap beat out of him, he no doubt sounded like a little school girl if only "not a full grown man."

And there we go, you assume they are lying becaue you have made up your mind without considering the facts.

So you don't debate with yourself?

[tsuki]

Okay so since Wooster refuses to debate honestly I suggest we ignore his posts from now on and continue the debate with anyone who wants to honestly discuss this case.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

What I find despicable irresponsible and stupid is that they're making this a race issue..as opposed to what appears to be one self righteous frustrated person gunning down a teenager who may very well have been acting some what suspicious.

I find it criminal that they did the whole no confidence thing to the police chief but the black Panthers put a bounty out on Zimmermens head and they aren't arrested and given the same treat a mobster would for that? that Spike Lee can without even bothering to do god damn research just copy pasta an address and in the middle of a damn investigation get thousands of people to go after this guy? Only for it to be an innocent old couple..and the dude isn't hauled in for questioning? or told under no certain terms if those gramps get worked over because of his irresponsible actions he'll be punished for it"?

No worse then the actual case is how badly this is being handled..how everyone is rushing to be PC and make this the next Rodney King mess- that needs to stop now..and people need to be taken to task for their actions on both sides of the fence for that. That is consummate ;);););););););)

onto Zimmerman: did he really get assaulted? it doesn't look like it from the police videos and the like..no what it looks like is he was frustrated upset.."these people always get away" type comments.and the like.. he had a little bit of power and he acted on it..should he be charged with murder? if the police investigation (not a media investigation not modern pinkertons hired by any activist groups) but the legit law finds the guy committed an act of self defense..then no he shouldn't and he should be free to sue the ever lasting crap out of every single celebrity and media person who has tried to lynch him...

but if it went down like I think it did? Yeah send the guy up the river he killed an innocent kid. but I'm not sure what exactly happened the charged atmosphere and chummed waters make it very hard.;

I mean really..he has every right to act using lethal force..to defend himself and his community if that's what he did. I Come from a country where social justice has taken over the system and the criminals have more rights then the people they rob..and assault and I thank god everyday I live in a country now where I have the right to defend myself...but my right to defend myself doesn't mean I've got the right to profile a kid and put his brains on the pavement.

in short: if the kid really did assault him everyone needs to recompense the guy for doing his civic duty..some reports suggest that this isn't what happened that he gunned down an innocent kid..no idea if those are objective or not What I do know..this is all being handled very poorly by everyone involved

[Taka-hebi1]

Here's what I think: George Zimmerman news reports on him said that he said he saw a Hooded man walking who looked supicious. It was indeed Traevon George says T.Martin attacked him right?,But this really add up why would T.Martin attack him?I think his claimed "Self Defense" Is Bs.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Here's what I think: George Zimmerman news reports on him said that he said he saw a Hooded man walking who looked supicious. It was indeed Traevon George says T.Martin attacked him right?,But this really add up why would T.Martin attack him?I think his claimed "Self Defense" Is Bs.

while that is certainly possible..you aren't coming to that conclusion based off much of anything..it seems and that's not good that causes more problems then it solves

[Wooster]

I don't see any point applying motives to either of them. In the end, there is what happened and what can be proved.

Thus far, there is nothing to contradict that Zimmerman acted in self defense. Until such time, people shouldn't proclaim him a murderer.

Now if Zimmerman instigated the scuffle, he would perhaps be guilty of manslaughter. But if at any point Zimmerman tried to retreat or was unable to retreat and Martin kept on him, Zimmerman is in his right to defend himself with any means necessary.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I like how limiting our self defense laws..is the logical reaction of this incident

No matter what country you live in..the left never changes ever

[Wooster]

That would cause a big problem for Detroit residents. Police take hours to reply to calls to 911

[ONIMUSHA]

Wooster, if he was really beaten as badly as you say, he would be absolutely COVERED in cuts and bruises on his face, no treatment could make that go away that quickly, hell, he would also have a major concussion which would result in him not being able to walk right, if at all, for at least a few days

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

That would cause a big problem for Detroit residents. Police take hours to reply to calls to 911

you think that's the end of it wait until your thrown in jail for manslaughter for killing two armed thugs because your gun is a higher caliber then theirs

just happened to a family friend back home

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Wooster, if he was really beaten as badly as you say, he would be absolutely COVERED in cuts and bruises on his face, no treatment could make that go away that quickly, hell, he would also have a major concussion which would result in him not being able to walk right, if at all, for at least a few days

not really..he should have bruises on his face or head..but not necessarily a bloody heap

[Bacon]

@omnimusha:To be honest there is always the possibility that zimmerman was able to stave off the kid before finally being able to pull out his gun. Though that's only a superficial assumption because my first impression was this zimmerman guy randomly killed some kid. Now there's the possibility of the kid attacking him? With that there's nothing I can really say except wait for solid evidence to consider.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

That's easy.

Testosterone nuff said.

Um, since when can a 911 Call say anything in the case of a combat? He would've hung up the phone and then lead to the following, therefore how else would the 911 call have track of him? No he should't have, it is also documented that Martin has had a history of being an aggressive person, shown by his FB and his school records. As well as his father in the interview saying " Your going to die" is what was said to Zimmerman by Martian. He ended the kids life because of what he said and the aggression he brought on by it.

wait a minute what? the kid had a record or a history?

[Devils Lawyer]

Either way how it happened the whole incident and death could have been avoided. The whole incident is subjective and opinionated No one knows what happened for sure. Not unless you are god like wooster said. But regardless Zimmerman still followed him instead of calling the police. Which clearly meant somewhere in his mind he wanted or was looking for a confrontation. That is my view on it.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Either way how it happened the whole incident and death could have been avoided. The whole incident is subjective and opinionated No one knows what happened for sure. Not unless you are god like wooster said. But regardless Zimmerman still followed him instead of calling the police. Which clearly meant somewhere in his mind he wanted or was looking for a confrontation. That is my view on it.

it might be that way..that both were looking for trouble

plus DL how many times do kids that age have really crappy attitudes? I mean I'm not profiling even I answered with an attitude at that age

the kid may have just responded wrong and got the ball rolling

[nexthokage]

He killed someone and is still free. He followed this kid after the cops told him to stop so strike 1. He said the kid looked like he was up to no good, stroke 2. After he shot the kid all the boy had was skittles and some Arizonia Ice Tea, strike 3.

I just find it funny how in this country if you shoot a kid your not arrested but if you throw flower on Kim Kardashian you are arrested immediately. America, America, America.

Florida's law not America's as a whole.
Just clarifying

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I like how people think self defense laws and make my day laws are soo bad

because you know the alternative trusting the state to save your ass and you having zero right to fend for yourself..but to call on them..is oh so much better

[Devils Lawyer]

it might be that way..that both were looking for trouble

plus DL how many times do kids that age have really crappy attitudes? I mean I'm not profiling even I answered with an attitude at that age

the kid may have just responded wrong and got the ball rolling

I am pretty sure he said something slick. As a matter of fact I am sure he said something to Zimmerman. I would have at that age too. As a matter of fact I would be mad now for the simple reason he was following me. If it was that big of an issue call the police. So I feel no sympathy for the ass whooping. Which by the way probably happened. But he most likely lied and exaggerated the beating. I know what a shocker. People don't lie when their scared of getting arrested.:roll: So the end result him most likely not getting arrested but end up losing a civil suit thus his life being ruined. Combined with a race war on the rise. Basically him wanting to be some type of hero or action star caused this mess. Which the police could have ended immediately and peacefully.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I am pretty sure he said something slick. As a matter of fact I am sure he said something to Zimmerman. I would have at that age too.

that we all would have said at that age


As a matter of fact I would be mad now for the simple reason he was following me. If it was that big of an issue call the police. So I feel no sympathy for the ass whooping. Which by the way probably happened. But he most likely lied and exaggerated the beating. I know what a shocker. People don't lie when their scared of getting arrested.:roll: So the end result him most likely not getting arrested but end up losing a civil suit thus his life being ruined. Combined with a race war on the rise. Basically him wanting to be some type of hero or action star caused this mess. Which the police could have ended immediately and peacefully.

you seem to be taking the both people were dumbasses root yes?

[Devils Lawyer]

that we all would have said at that age




you seem to be taking the both people were dumbasses root yes?

Pretty much it was the combination of a teenager and some nosy old dude bored with his life. A combination like that is bound to have bad results. Then you put a gun in the equation w-t-f.

[BelieveIt]

Zimmerman was on a serious power trip if you ask me, and I still think what he did was wrong. It doesn't matter whether Martin attacked him or not. Martin still got away and Zimmerman went after him and shot him. Instead of giving chase, he should have let the cops take it from there. He had no right to end that life, especially if Martin had ceased the attack. If it was a life or death situation, like kill or be killed moment, then Zimmerman had a right to defend himself, but seeing as Martin took off, that is not the case. He was a minor on top of that. Why is this old dude trying to fight some poor young kid trying to walk with some freaking skittles and iced tea or whatever it was he had.

Life is precious. You can't just take it like that and think it's okay. There are laws, and Zimmerman broke them. You cannot shoot someone like that out in public. If Martin were to break into his home and threaten his life that is completely different.

I feel it was a hate crime.

[Yori]

wait a minute what? the kid had a record or a history?

Suspended in school. Once. Some record

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Pretty much it was the combination of a teenager and some nosy old dude bored with his life. A combination like that is bound to have bad results. Then you put a gun in the equation w-t-f.

the nosy old dude was not even thirty..he's in our age bracket DL or at least that's what I heard

this isn't Grampa on the porch liquidating 'dem noisy kids'

this is one of us doing it man..and you just called him old? We're getting old



Zimmerman was on a serious power trip if you ask me, and I still think what he did was wrong. It doesn't matter whether Martin attacked him or not.

nonsense the right to defend yourself your family your property and your community from any threat is a fundamental and basic right no state should ever be allowed to take away




Life is precious. You can't just take it like that and think it's okay. There are laws, and Zimmerman broke them. You cannot shoot someone like that out in public. If Martin were to break into his home and threaten his life that is completely different.

oh Zimmerman broke laws did he? is he being charged? Is that charge the result of an actual investigation or media ineptitude and the self righteous venom of racists and political extremists who are more interested in dumming down the laws that keep men free then bringing justice to the family of that poor kid?

because as far as I know he has broken no laws


I feel it was a hate crime.

no and until you have a recording of the guy making racist remarks constantly you have absolutely no basis to make that claim and every time you do you are just chumming the water

Suspended in school. Once. Some record

in the eyes of baby boomers and people born from 65-80 that is enough of a condemnation and those generations are gonna be sitting on any jury that exonerates him be it civil or criminal

[Devils Lawyer]

the nosy old dude was not even thirty..he's in our age bracket DL or at least that's what I heard

this isn't Grampa on the porch liquidating 'dem noisy kids'

this is one of us doing it man..and you just called him old?
That is sad and kinda pathetic getting beat up by a 16 year old. Which probably explains why he shot him. I am not gonna judge him on whether or not he broken any laws. I wasn't their and won't make guess that part. But I do know he basically initiated the situation. So if he is innocent and gets charged he still deserves it. You have to pay for your decisions. Also lol at anybody my age who joins the neighbor hood watch. I swear people are p***** nowadays.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

did he instigate? I have no idea the amount of BS and supposition surrounding this case is quickly making it pathetically hard to tell whats what

[Devils Lawyer]

No doubt the police had told him to stop following the kid. He continued to do so. That fact alone puts him at fault.

[zebrakiller]

everyone is beating around the bush here. here's what probly happened: Trayvon Martin went out for some skittles and an Arizona, snacking necessities to get u thru the NBA All-Star Game. Zimmerman was following him because he was black n had a hood on, looks like a thug so he must be a thug. They had an altercation, Martin probly mouthed off and verbally attacked Zimmerman; this may have been provoked by Zimmerman, maybe not. Whether or not they even fought physically isn't clear
but whats clear is that Martin didn't have the upper hand in any kind of fight. He was unarmed and got shot. Whether Zimmerman shot him because Martin assaulted him or because he didn't want "the ni&&a to get away" (his words from the 911 call) after badmouthing him, who knows. all in all, Zimmerman used excessive force and stepped outside the bounds of the law. He's changed his story so many times u can't believe anything he says.

The other side of the race coin that no one here seems to want to acknowledge and why the Sanford police are taking guff is that had Zimmerman been black, he would have been detained and drilled and subjected to all kinds of interrogation tactics until they got the real story. of course he is hispanic so maybe im wrong.

imo the kid was killed unjustly, end of story. zimmerman should get manslaughter at least, but floridas laws on that are weird iirc.

[Yori]

2 Experts confirmed that the 911 screams were not Zimmermans!

Your turn Woo

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Zimmerman been black, he would have been detained and drilled and subjected to all kinds of interrogation tactics until they got the real story. of course he is hispanic so maybe im wrong.


yeah because lord knows those pesky doo gooders form the north riling up our Ministers to boycot caught busses down here in the south..OH WAIT..THIS ISN'T THE 1950's!!!

protip: I live in Florida sure there are a fair amount of white people there but that is a Latin dominated state..now granted Cubans..Argentines and Chileans really on average do not like Black people..and in some cases worse then the Jim Crow guys (there aren't afro Argentines..for example or if there are..there are maybe handful..I know of in my home time of seven hundred thousand people..literally only one ) but they aren't the ones holding the power in this state...

the race card is asinine..it's getting very tiresome it stopped being relevant when Barack Obama won the 08 election hell it was kinda stupid before that- (and I find it funny ninety something percent of the African American community votes for the guy and no single native born American has the balls to call it a racist vote it's only us immigrants who do so) Not that I'm, denying racism exists of course it does..but prevalent in a massively crippling manner? I doubt it..at least not in the way you mean it


oh and had Zimmerman been black the exact god damn thing would have happened to him..likely the media that has crusaded against this guy..likely never would have picked the story up in the first place!!!- which is pretty effed up in and of itself

[Devils Lawyer]

Apparently he is not racist just bipolar as ;);););). He is known for stalking people he profiles as suspicious. He has already been reported for his behavior before this incident. He was self appointed leader of the neighborhood watch.

So basically he followed the kid like he normally does. But the kid probably told him to gtfo of his face.

[Cult of Personality]

The police tried to cover it up. They were playing favorites because Zimmerman was helping them out. The FBI had to get involved.

The guy is guilty as sin.

[Nick Tasogare]

Zimmerman was invistigating someone who appeared suspicious, which was his duty as captain of the neighborhood watch He was only told he did not have to keep track of him by the police not that he shouldn't.

He then lost track of Martin. Martin approached him from behind and decked him by his car. Then Martin proceeded to straddle Zimmerman and beat his head into the ground, verified by a witness by the way and Zimmerman's physical condition afterwards. After Zmmerman screamed for help and no one came. He then shot this 17-year 6'2" man that was beating the crap out of him.

Please tell me what he did wrong.

*Self appointed Captain, pretty much meaning he was probably the only one on said "Neighborhood watch". He was told specifically not to pursue, and to let the police do their jobs.

There is no way in Hell that Martin attacked him. Have you seen the videos that were recorded just after he was arrested from the police station? No blood on him, not a scratch to be seen. Treyvon's knuckles were also pristine and there was no sign that he had hit anyone.

I can't believe people are so goddamn ignorant. He murdered this kid in cold blood for no reason at all. He was not attacked at all, he was told not to go near the kid too. If there was a witness, why didn't that witness come to his defense? Maybe because they're big, racist liars.

[Yori]

He follows a kid when the police told him to stop, screams that has been confirmed by two experts that was not Zimmerman could be heard, the guy claimed his head was bashed to the ground over and over again but he still had enough movement to pull out a gun and walk on his own.

A person that looked at trayvons body said the way the bullets entered him, there is no way Zimmerman shot close range. The hell is the guy still free?

[Nick Tasogare]

the guy claimed his head was bashed to the ground over and over again but he still had enough movement to pull out a gun and walk on his own.

Not to mention the fact that he didn't have any signs of physical injury anywhere on his body, let alone his face. If he had been as horribly assaulted as is claimed, he would have needed more than field treatment, and he most definitely would have had some sort of bandages or wrapping, as well as ice to reduce swelling.

I mean, I don't see any signs of injury. Anyone else?

Pc0fQhGDxRo

And let's not forget that Zimmerman's father is a retired judge.

You can say all you like that we're only imagining that the video shows no injury. We all know that if this was brought to a jury, Zimmerman would be tossed into a cell within an hour of deliberations beginning. The fact that he's not being charged is ludicrous and down right wrong. The evidence doesn't point to self defense, that's just the evidence being bent towards that direction.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Apparently he is not racist just bipolar as ;);););). He is known for stalking people he profiles as suspicious. He has already been reported for his behavior before this incident. He was self appointed leader of the neighborhood watch.

So basically he followed the kid like he normally does. But the kid probably told him to gtfo of his face.



The police tried to cover it up. They were playing favorites because Zimmerman was helping them out. The FBI had to get involved.

The guy is guilty as sin.

if what DL is saying is accurate the guy was just nuts and off his meds

wonder why someone that unstable was permitted to have a gun? I'm in favor of self defense laws..love 'em want to expand them..but you don't give maniacs weapons

[Devils Lawyer]

Thats because like cult said he helped the police. He was super snitch of the year called the police an excessive number of the times. Harassed people on the regular. I am more surprised at the fact he hasn't been shot.

[tsuki]

2 Experts confirmed that the 911 screams were not Zimmermans!

Your turn Woo

Seems like he has no response. Not surprising.

[Wooster]

Posted without commentary from the Orlando Sentinel

ABC (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/ORCRP000009600.topic) News has re-digitized video of George Zimmerman taken shortly after Trayvon Martin (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PEOCVC000188.topic)'s shooting.
The video was unveiled as an exclusive this morning on "Good Morning America." ABC was the first news organization to show the original tape.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/images/pixel.gif
Reporter Matt Gutman said the clearer video shows "what appear to be a pair of gashes or welts on George Zimmerman's head."
Neighborhood Watch volunteer Zimmerman has said he shot 17-year-old Trayvon in self-defense. The video shows Zimmerman arriving at the Sanford Police Department (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/ORGOV000032.topic) within an hour after the shooting.
Gutman said the video had been "clarified" by Forensic Protection Inc. Former FBI (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/ORGOV000008.topic) Special Agent Brad Garrett (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/PECLB0000005700.topic) told ABC that the clearer video shows "marks on the back of Mr. Zimmerman's head."

[Cult of Personality]

Tell you one thing. If some guy attacked me while I was walking home from the gas station I sure as well wouldn't just let him. I'd fight back. What's that called again? Oh right. Self defense.

[zebrakiller]

oh and had Zimmerman been black the exact god damn thing would have happened to him..likely the media that has crusaded against this guy..likely never would have picked the story up in the first place!!!- which is pretty effed up in and of itself

i agree with this, but the rest is bs, the race card is real and we see it everyday, its just fact that people are ignorant, intolerant, and/or have concrete stereotypes of people that are different from them. unfortunate but true, and everyone is guilty of it to some degree.

they need to put this fool in front of a judge and let the legal system do its job.

[AgentShayd]

The point here is.. no one wins in this case... I am sorry but I think Zimmerman should pay for this. I do not believe this was actual self defense. I also believe he is hiding behind the new Florida law because he knows he seriously screwed up. This is so sad that one life is gone forever, another will be locked up.. or even threatened out of retaliation, or he will have to live with the fact that he took another person's life... and both the families of these two people will forever be scarred. Once a life is taken there is no bringing that life back. People should be able to defend themselves.. BUT I have a hard time believing that this guy was truly just defending his self. Besides he could have shot to injure not kill. But whatever... you can't turn back the clock now...

[Wooster]

Ohh, NBC and ABC...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50590

Why are you such race baiters?

Editted transcript:
ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he’s up to no good… he looks black.

Actual transcript:
ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he's up to no good… or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
DISPATCHER: Okay, is this guy, is he white, black, or Hispanic?
ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.

[AgentShayd]

e.e Wooster.... you are not going to win this.. Also since when is it allowed to carry a gun on neighborhood watch and since when is it a policy to follow people like a stalker. Did you ever stop to thing that maybe that kid thought HIS life was in danger? That some creepy adult following him was trying to kill him? This is the stupidest thing I see in a while. He knows he is in trouble so he hides behind a newly formed law thinking this will save his ass. Well even if the law justifies him, I doubt someone else will. We can all see what it is going to happen here.

[Wooster]

Concealed carry, most states have it. Look it up. :p

So he attack someone from behind? That is why guns are allowed. They are the great equlaizer. As soon as Martin attack, Zimmerman was justified in shooting. The tape back up that ZImmerman stiopped following when told not to. He did say OK. :roll: Not to mention his breathing returned to normal when he stopped moving. But all this can easily be determined by the location of Martin's body. If it is by Zimmerman's truck, then we will know what happened won't we?

The law is irrelevant. Either Martin attack, and simple self defense applies. Or Zimmerman attack, and he is not covered under any law. Stand your ground never enters the picture in this case.

The Media ran with this story with partial facts and editting facts that didn't suit their means. Just like the Lacross team rape case of a few years ago. The chance of Zimmerman ever being convicted are nil because all the facts buttress his story. Those that call Zimmerman a murderer before he has even been charged are scum, plain and simple.

[Devils Lawyer]

So the kid attacks for no reason is what you are saying. He randomly attacked someone in his fathers neighborhood. A place I am sure he can basically call home. Without he provocation he did this. He goes from walking around to I am gonna f*** that dude up getting into his truck. Lol you gotta admit that strange Wooster. It still doesn't match up with his story.:lol:

Never really doubted they got into a fight. Zimmerman just caught the losing end. Besides that point someone following you home suspiciously does not constitue a threat to you. From the conversation he had intent to follow. So if someone follows you for several blocks you wouldn't constitue that as suspicious. Maybe even a little hostile. People get shot for reasons like that. Zimmerman really has no ground to stand on why he was following Martin. Lol because he looks suspicous and was walking.

He may not get arrested but he will definetely get raped in a civil suit. His life is over either way.

[Wooster]

It was not Martin's fathers neighborhood twas only nearby.

Let's note it was also raining, but Martin was not walking purposefully like most people would in the rain but meandering around this neighbor. Nor was Martin walking on the road, but behind the houses on the grass. And as Zimmerman said he looked like he was on drugs. And there were a spate of eight robberies in the neighborhood in the past few months. Zimmerman's actions are logical and warranted.

The same could be said about Zimmerman, why would he attack Martin? He already called the police and, as the recording proves, lost sight of Martin.

Why Martin attack Zimmerman is mainly irrelevant; he was pissed at being followed makes as much sense as any other narrative that has developed. In any case, the evidence suggest he did. The evidence also suggest Martin got the better of Zimmerman, at that point Zimmerman was in his right to self defense, stand your ground or no.

[Devils Lawyer]

The whole entire first portion of the story unverified. Basically Zimmermans word. Who has in the past already been known to follow individuals for lesser offenses. If the kid was on drugs the news would be throwing gas on the fire now with that fact.

Second portion him following Martin was not in his rights. Zimmerman did not have the legal nor the authority to do so. He was specifically told not to. So any actions or incidents that followed puts him equally responsible.But you are right if he is proven innocent thats that. Him getting arrested was doubtful from the get go. But doesn't mean that will be the end of it. Nor does it mean he will come out unscathed. It was his decision to follow Martin so he should be prepared for the consequences. Being a good neighbor and citizen should have ended with the 911 call.

[sharingangirl]

If Zimmerman had done what he was told Trayvon would still be alive. That sums it up right there in my opinion.

[Wooster]

The whole entire first portion of the story unverified. Basically Zimmermans word. Who has in the past already been known to follow individuals for lesser offenses. If the kid was on drugs the news would be throwing gas on the fire now with that fact.

Second portion him following Martin was not in his rights. Zimmerman did not have the legal nor the authority to do so. He was specifically told not to. So any actions or incidents that followed puts him equally responsible.But you are right if he is proven innocent thats that. Him getting arrested was doubtful from the get go. But doesn't mean that will be the end of it. Nor does it mean he will come out unscathed. It was his decision to follow Martin so he should be prepared for the consequences. Being a good neighbor and citizen should have ended with the 911 call.
Again, not clear that Zimmerman did follow Martin after told he did not NEED to. But I wil get to that in a minute. He was never told not to.

This article is fascinating. Maps FTW.
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony

Gives motivation and action of both Zimmerman and Martin. More of mix between of who accousted whom. Also note where eyewitness positioned at G is. That is the one that stated that Martin was ontop of Zimmerman. That position would have seen everything.

I think the most tragic explanation would be, that when Martin saw Zimmerman reaching in his pocket for his phone, Martin attacked thinking it was a weapon. Of course, when Zimmerman was knocked to the ground and Martin continued to attack, he responded with his actual gun.

That gives the confrontation, the dual meetings, Zimmerman not following Martin, but then later following, why Martin attacked, Martin's call to his girlfriend, and the two calls to 911.

[Devils Lawyer]

Again, not clear that Zimmerman did follow Martin after told he did not NEED to. But I wil get to that in a minute. He was never told not to.

This article is fascinating. Maps FTW.
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony

Gives motivation and action of both Zimmerman and Martin. More of mix between of who accousted whom. Also note where eyewitness positioned at G is. That is the one that stated that Martin was ontop of Zimmerman. That position would have seen everything.

I think the most tragic explanation would be, that when Martin saw Zimmerman reaching in his pocket for his phone, Martin attacked thinking it was a weapon. Of course, when Zimmerman was knocked to the ground and Martin continued to attack, he responded with his actual gun.
b;)
That gives the confrontation, the dual meetings, Zimmerman not following Martin, but then later following, why Martin attacked, Martin's call to his girlfriend, and the two calls to 911.
The incident was more than likely accidental. More likely a situtation overblown I never disagreed with that. But if he was told to stop he should have. It's that simple. He did his part why press the issue and continue pursuit. The situation could have been less intense. Now he is a situation that he need not be in. All behind being self righteous and judgemental. He is technically not even neighborhood watch. I guess he considers himself a rogue.:lol:

[Gaia]

I can't agree with these people more, to name a few: Yori, Tsuki, Cult of Personality, Nick Tasogare. I find the fact people can actually argue about this if it isn't already obvious, pretty bull-;);););).

Here's a video for you guys either way.

GWwQqIRuTWU

[Wooster]

The incident was more than likely accidental. More likely a situtation overblown I never disagreed with that. But if he was told to stop he should have. It's that simple. He did his part why press the issue and continue pursuit. The situation could have been less intense. Now he is a situation that he need not be in. All behind being self righteous and judgemental. He is technically not even neighborhood watch. I guess he considers himself a rogue.:lol:
None of that is a crime.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

i agree with this, but the rest is bs, the race card is real and we see it everyday, its just fact that people are ignorant, intolerant, and/or have concrete stereotypes of people that are different from them. unfortunate but true, and everyone is guilty of it to some degree.

they need to put this fool in front of a judge and let the legal system do its job.

Really the race card is real? So when was the last time any of us minority posters encountered legitimate organized state sanctioned bigotry designed to keep any one of us down? Hmm? I haven't I mean whatever I've seen laws designed to politically oppress people: but not employed in the US.

And every single US citizen has the right to defend his or her or it's self via legal means against the "race issue" organizing protests to illegalize something as basic as self defense...putting bounty on peoples heads and igniting a nation wide lynch mob..when the guy hasn't even gotten to trial..and then playing politics..does nothing to improve any racial issues in this country.

For the record: I don't like the idea of anyone gunning someone down after a cop tells you to stop: I don't like vigilante justice when there is no reason or justification for it. This guy in my mind broke the law the moment he pursued the kid after he was told not to: but I'm not gonna be on the jury and I'm no judge or Lawyer

my issue with this case is how badly this has been handled and the hypocrisy of covering this with such fury and righteous indignation when this happens every other god damn minute in the Ghetto.

Get pissed about that get even more pissed that the hypocrites in the media do nothing about this ...let the law handle the wannabe Bronson affect social change where it's god damn needed for once..


The incident was more than likely accidental. More likely a situtation overblown

See I agree with this: While it certainly highlights a need for all of us to have more common sense and awareness of ones situation: this is one of the reasons why I think all the attention it's getting is idiotic

This likely occurred because both parties used poor judgment.

[mrsticky005]

Since I wasn't there and am not a witness I honestly have no idea.

Though the media sure seems like they already got things figured out.

[Wooster]

Media is smart, dontcha know. :geek:

[mrsticky005]

Media is smart, dontcha know. :geek:

True they are.

Though not in a very honest way.


Media=propaganda.

And this goes for BOTH sides of the aisle.

[Wooster]

I don't know what you are talking about. I am sure NBC had a very good reason to edit out that 911 operator asking what Martin's race was. :geek:

[mrsticky005]

I don't know what you are talking about. I am sure NBC had a very good reason to edit out that 911 operator asking what Martin's race was. :geek:

Good in what sense...morally speaking or skill?

[Wooster]

Skill I think. Probably started the whole mess.

[mrsticky005]

Skill I think. Probably started the whole mess.

The media shot Trayvon and punched Zimmerman?

[ItachiAnbu]

Zimmerman was invistigating someone who appeared suspicious, which was his duty as captain of the neighborhood watch He was only told he did not have to keep track of him by the police not that he shouldn't.

He then lost track of Martin. Martin approached him from behind and decked him by his car. Then Martin proceeded to straddle Zimmerman and beat his head into the ground, verified by a witness by the way and Zimmerman's physical condition afterwards. After Zmmerman screamed for help and no one came. He then shot this 17-year 6'2" man that was beating the crap out of him.

Please tell me what he did wrong.

I don't care if his face was getting pulverized and he was going to get a concussion, the fact is that he pulled out a gun and shot a teen, after putting himself in that situation. He should not have followed that kid, and he should not have been armed.

THAT'S what he did wrong.

[mrsticky005]

I don't care if his face was getting pulverized and he was going to get a concussion, the fact is that he pulled out a gun and shot a teen, after putting himself in that situation. He should not have followed that kid, and he should not have been armed.

THAT'S what he did wrong.


I don't know why he followed Trayvon and perhaps he was not justified there but I disagree that he shouldn't be armed. Trayvon COULD have killed him. I say it would be self defense if not for the fact Zimmerman was the one following Trayvon. That just seemed to be asking for trouble.

But I wasn't there so I don't know.

[Wooster]

The media shot Trayvon and punched Zimmerman?
Bombshell!!!! `:shock:

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I don't care if his face was getting pulverized and he was going to get a concussion,

That's nice..you don't value your own life how fortunate for whoever tries to rob you

the fact is that he pulled out a gun and shot a teen, after putting himself in that situation. He should not have followed that kid, and he should not have been armed.

THAT'S what he did wrong.

No he should not have followed the kid...that does not change we still don't know the entire story and his recent arrest was entirely political

[Wooster]

Apparently, the entire case rest on the voice being Martin's. Also some clap trap about Zimmerman not being told to follow, but any half decent lawyer will have that thrown out.

Which means, if the mother says one thing and acquaintances of Zimmerman say another, the whole case will be laughed out of court.

I can only assume they charged 2nd degree murder to get a plea bargain for manslaughter? Nothing else really makes sense.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Yeah I'll laugh if he gets sent to jail for the rest of his life

but Casey Anthony is still at large

[MinatoXNaruto]

my issue with this case is how badly this has been handled and the hypocrisy of covering this with such fury and righteous indignation when this happens EVERY OTHER GOD DAMN MINUTE IN THE GHETTO.
Now that's just stereotyping. That's plain wrong. How do you know this happens every minute in the ghetto? Do you live somewhere that's considered ghetto? Is there an actual calculation for this?

[MinatoXNaruto]

Yeah I'll laugh if he gets sent to jail for the rest of his life

but Casey Anthony is still at large
She should've been jailed. It's just the prosecutors failed to bring a strong argument and didn't answer enough questions, I guess

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Now that's just stereotyping. That's plain wrong. How do you know this happens every minute in the ghetto? Do you live somewhere that's considered ghetto? Is there an actual calculation for this?

..are you kidding me? That's stereotyping? There be all sorts of people in Ghetto's whites too..no you can accuse me of being classicist maybe (you'd still be full of crap) but being a bigot" noooo

She should've been jailed. It's just the prosecutors failed to bring a strong argument and didn't answer enough questions, I guess


The prosecutor did just fine...The jury was full of retards

[JLI2infinity]

Well this case was interesting and a little close to home for me. As a black teenager who lives in Florida the fear that this tragedy could befall me was a little shocking, it was a media storm I couldn't really be numb to even if I tried. I understand that identifying my race I already made myself appear biased but so be it. I am also the son of two police officers so I do have an above average understanding of how the situation should've been handled and how the respective parties should've acted, I also see some key information being left out of these comments.

1) Zimmerman calls police, he had already been over zealous in his job as neighborhood watch captain calling them dozens of times in a single year he should've been relieved of his duties already but w/e hindsight is 20/20

2) On the phone Zimmerman sounds frustrated he makes it clear that he thinks Trayvon has already committed some sort of crime, saying things like "these guys always get away"

3) I don't care how you try to spin it, anyone who heard the calls can clearly tell he said ";););););););) coons" before he hung up, that is why the race card cannot leave this situation this man made a racial slur.

From these three things alone we already know that Zimmerman is inclined to overreact, has already jumped to conclusions, and has some sort of prejudice against black people.

4) He is told not to follow him (it wasn't a suggestion), the dispatcher clearly stated "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman clearly engaged Trayvon putting himself at risk and thus violating the premise of the "Stand Your Ground" law people have been saying works in his favor.

5) Of course this is where the most interpretation and who's opinion is worth more arguments come in. People who heard the confrontation and made the call identified the voice of the person screaming "help" as that of a young man, I heard the tapes and also thought the same thing. Of course no one can prove any of this but one interesting thing to note is that as soon as Trayvon was shot the cries for help stopped, even if Zimmerman was shocked that he'd killed someone he could've at least continued asking for help and trying to get the attention of his neighbors but he did no such thing.

6) Police arrive on the scene, they take NO photos of Zimmerman's face (the videotapes of him arriving at the station show no signs of visible damage but again it's up for speculation), they make NO arrests, and they perform NO drug tests on Zimmerman BUT they sure remembered to test Trayvon's corpse. If there's a racial issue in here it's not just that one deranged man stereotyped a young child, it's the utter travesty of these police officers representatives of law enforcement...individual prejudice is terrible but systemic discrimination is undoubtedly more dangerous.

Anyways this case is being abused by the media but at least Zimmerman is being prosecuted now. That's my 2 cents about the whole thing, hope some people read this and do research of their own.

[Wooster]

1) There were eight bugarliers in the past few months. THe calls were not that high, as they were over several years.

2)Yes, because of the eight bugarlies.

3) Audio analysis has firmly come down on "f'ing punks" No if, and, not ,or ,buts about it.

4) It was a suggestion. Sorry try again. And pretty lear Martin confronted Zimmerman near his car i.e they confronted each other twice.

5)Shoot a gun while talking See if you stop talking. Dollars to doughnuts you will. It's kinda loud. ;)

6) But they did of his head. See below. :3

ABC just released this:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/new_photo_shows_zimmerman_bloody_H0OsgAUdCP4CdBfZh pcM2K
That's one bloody head.

[Jinchiruuki]

The whole situation was orchestrated to create racial tension within the country.

Facts:

1) Trayvon is dead.


That's pretty much the only widely known fact. None of us were there to see what happened therefore we know nothing. In the first couple days of the media reporting this, CNN, Fox and others reported Zimmerman as a WHITE COP, When in fact he's hispanic and a member of the neighborhood watch, not a cop.

Think for yourselves. This entire situation was and is still being fueled by propaganda to create racial tension in this country and to divide us as a people.

[Wooster]

Sadly, that seems pretty much true.

[Cult of Personality]

If a bit of racial division is what it takes to get justice for a murdered young man, then bring on the divide.

[Jinchiruuki]

If a bit of racial division is what it takes to get justice for a murdered young man, then bring on the divide.

Good troll, or at least I hope you're trolling.

[Devils Lawyer]

The true moral of the story is stop snitching and mind your business. Life is a whole lot simpler that way. Just George Zimmerman I am sure he will tell you the same thing. His life is ;);););););) whether he is innocent or not. Which was my pet peeve about this case.:lol:

[Cult of Personality]

If the only way we can get along with our fellow man is to let murderers walk free, then I say screw our fellow man. What is that jerk good for anyway.

[JLI2infinity]

1) There were eight bugarliers in the past few months. THe calls were not that high, as they were over several years.

2)Yes, because of the eight bugarlies.

3) Audio analysis has firmly come down on "f'ing punks" No if, and, not ,or ,buts about it.

4) It was a suggestion. Sorry try again. And pretty lear Martin confronted Zimmerman near his car i.e they confronted each other twice.

5)Shoot a gun while talking See if you stop talking. Dollars to doughnuts you will. It's kinda loud. ;)

6) But they did of his head. See below. :3

ABC just released this:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/new_photo_shows_zimmerman_bloody_H0OsgAUdCP4CdBfZh pcM2K
That's one bloody head.

Well you are mistaken or have read misleading papers on multiple counts (not that I haven't the media is hardly impartial on this issue).

1) Of the eight burglaries, only 4 of them had witnesses that identified the suspects as black males, the other 4 had no witnesses (if they had been Latino I doubt Zimmerman would've given both parties equal consideration) but I did not know about the burglaries some of my sources were biased.

2) No, that sounds like something off Fox news lol, no one other than someone like Glenn Beck is suggesting he said "punks" the world clearly began with the sound of "co-" with the enhanced audio the tape the debate is now whether or not he said "f*cking coons" or "it's f*cking cold" some of your sources were biased.

3) Saying "We don't need you to do that" can be interpreted as a suggestion but the person who interprets it that way obviously wants to be involved. If I say "I'm going to the store" and my mom says "I don't need you to do that" if I still want to go to the store I should clarify that it's ok with her, I shouldn't just go anyway, this was obviously a dangerous situation if someone in authority makes a suggestion you aren't supposed to go Miami Vice and try to handle it yourself, you listen to the person you asked for help from.

4.) Once again I'm not saying he should've kept talking while shooting I'm saying that I don't know why he'd stop crying for help after the fact even if you're in shock that's a basic instinct, but again I could be nitpicking so that point is up for grabs.

5.) Yeah they just released those photos I hadn't seen them, all I saw was the video. This definitely makes the case more interesting but once again I suggest you do research and read carefully, the photo was taken by a witness NOT by the police, all those things I just mentioned that the police failed to do which signify discrimination all happened. Of course now whether or not Zimmerman was assaulted becomes the problem, however, his violation of the "Stand Your Ground" law is still true and that's a big part of his defense.

[Wooster]

A truly excellent article on the matter by Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

[JLI2infinity]

A truly excellent article on the matter by Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Very nice article, it would be a great piece of literature for the defense attorney but it is littered with unnecessary information and appeals to emotion meant to cloud the case, perhaps that is what is needed for this trial considering many people have already convicted this man prematurely but for me a lot of this was esoteric b.s.

"Oh he was a devout Catholic, an altar boy, he wanted to be a Marine, he loved his dad" yeah yeah that's great I'm sure some serial killers have the same background story. And no I'm not saying he's a murderer this was just an example to show why all that detail is irrelevant especially since the same thing can be done for Trayvon and probably better than it can for Zimmerman because it's always easier to romanticize the young victim.

What I did see in his past were some problems with aggression and authority: assaulting a police officer and being in an abusive relationship aren't things one can just shrug off (having pot in your bookbag on the other hand is but that's beside the point).

Now all the background information about the burglaries in the neighborhood are completely understandable. Yes a young black male walking around a neighborhood unaccompanied in the middle of the night is not always some innocent kid and I'm sure there are plenty of African Americans who would suspect him, my family included.

However, reporting him to the police when he hasn't done anything worth reporting is questionable but whatever it couldn't hurt to be safe, sometimes playing to stereotypes can be a necessary precaution I understand. But then he got the warning to not pursue the child. Now I read the part about Burgess peering into other neighbor's windows but we know Trayvon was doing no such thing, he was on the phone with his girlfriend.

Following him was already dangerous and irresponsible but bringing a firearm into that situation is something I know he was warned about in the classes he took to get the weapon. I don't expect him to know that burglars especially teenagers tend to be nonconfrontational and don't usually carry lethal weapons, but it's common sense not to engage someone you are afraid of, that is why he's being called a "vigilante."

This has brought to my attention some interesting information: I now understand the neighborhood's background and the reasons for his calls, I don't mind that he referred to Trayvon as part of the "they," I might be able to accept that he said "it's f*cking cold" instead of "f*cking coons" (although it's still debatable).

What I can't accept is how irresponsibly he handled a life or death situation, and how blatantly discriminatory the police were with Trayvon. Like I said before even if Zimmerman was racist and unjustified (although signs point to it being more complex than that) one crazed lunatic is understandable, it's almost expected. But the systematic prejudice of the police officers (no photos taken, no drug tests for Zimmerman but drug tests for Trayvon, no notification of Trayvon's family for three days). That is inexcusable.

[The Forgotten One]

2) No, that sounds like something off Fox news lol, no one other than someone like Glenn Beck is suggesting he said "punks" the world clearly began with the sound of "co-" with the enhanced audio the tape the debate is now whether or not he said "f*cking coons" or "it's f*cking cold" some of your sources were biased.


If you're going to attack Fox News, please get your facts straight. Glenn Beck is no longer affiliated with them and hasn't been for close to a year if not more (can't remember).

Now I can't speak for this stuff about burglaries since this topic is the first I've heard about that, but I believe that the channel that has covered this whole fiasco the fairest is Fox. I had to write a paper on this whole thing recently in school. While ABC, NBC, and even CNN at times have been reporting speculation as fact, letting blatant racists on the air spouting hate about a "white conspiracy" among other things, and convicting Zimmerman before we barely knew anything but what was from the 911 tape and what was publicly released. Fox News, meanwhile, has been reporting the details of the case from things like the 911 tape and police station video, and for the most part have been not having people on the air who are blatantly spouting hate. Fox has been accused of being racist for simply stating the fact that maybe everyone is jumping to conclusions about this case without knowing all the details.

And let's not forget the 911 tape that proved Zimmerman was a racist that turns out to have been edited by NBC (they were the ones who obtained and released it) and the video of Zimmerman in the police station from ABC that proved his story about being attacked was a lie that was then enhanced (also by ABC) that showed several gashes or blood stains on the back of Zimmerman's head. I can post my sources if anyone is interested, I just don't want to hunt for them if this has alreadly been addressed.

Tl;DR This whole case has been twisted by hate-mongers and the far-left media to advance their own political agenda(s) whatever they may be.

[Wooster]

Well, clearly the worst news organization has been NBC with that horrible edit that made Zimmerman seem a racist.

With reports around the country of mobs beating up people with sole reason being Martin, the media has much to attone for. The Reuters piece is a start.

[JLI2infinity]

If you're going to attack Fox News, please get your facts straight. Glenn Beck is no longer affiliated with them and hasn't been for close to a year if not more (can't remember).

Now I can't speak for this stuff about burglaries since this topic is the first I've heard about that, but I believe that the channel that has covered this whole fiasco the fairest is Fox. I had to write a paper on this whole thing recently in school. While ABC, NBC, and even CNN at times have been reporting speculation as fact, letting blatant racists on the air spouting hate about a "white conspiracy" among other things, and convicting Zimmerman before we barely knew anything but what was from the 911 tape and what was publicly released. Fox News, meanwhile, has been reporting the details of the case from things like the 911 tape and police station video, and for the most part have been not having people on the air who are blatantly spouting hate. Fox has been accused of being racist for simply stating the fact that maybe everyone is jumping to conclusions about this case without knowing all the details.

And let's not forget the 911 tape that proved Zimmerman was a racist that turns out to have been edited by NBC (they were the ones who obtained and released it) and the video of Zimmerman in the police station from ABC that proved his story about being attacked was a lie that was then enhanced (also by ABC) that showed several gashes or blood stains on the back of Zimmerman's head. I can post my sources if anyone is interested, I just don't want to hunt for them if this has alreadly been addressed.

Tl;DR This whole case has been twisted by hate-mongers and the far-left media to advance their own political agenda(s) whatever they may be.

Well I liked to point out that I referred to Fox News and Glenn Beck separately although I guess you thought I freely associated them with one another because they are two conservative sources.

As more information surfaces this case becomes a lot more complicated, as I said before I was making NO judgements, I was just pointing things out based on the knowledge I had, I obviously wasn't expecting multiple corrupt media sources.

However, I'm just pointing out that this was a problem of omission, the NBC editor left out important context when replaying the call, he did not alter Zimmerman's words which were what I was citing earlier, although now its unclear what he said.

I'm sorry you resorted to the pathetic TL; DR excuse luckily I didn't do the same for you otherwise you'd be accusing me of being biased or misinformed. If you read the rest of my points you would understand my sentiments on the case and my specific concerns. I'm not convicting Zimmerman just making claims I'm glad there are people here to challenge those claims and keep me informed.

[The Forgotten One]

I assumed that you were referring to Fox and Beck together.

That whole post kind of spiraled out of control and I should have worded it better. The part about Fox and Beck was the only point directed at you specifically and I haven't read this whole thread so any arrogance or deucebaggery you perceive is my bad via my ignorance of what has been said in this thread.

[Wooster]

From ABC News: (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532)

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Autopsy report shows Martin also had injuries to his knuckles. Here (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/)

[JLI2infinity]

From ABC News: (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532)

A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.

Autopsy report shows Martin also had injuries to his knuckles. Here (http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/)

Ahhh I see. Thanks for the update. I find it a little funny now that the case isn't so clear cut they stopped using Zimmerman's mugshot as his picture and instead are using a personal photo. Time to let the justice system sort this out, I am really interested in the process the government went through for finding a jury for this case.

[Wooster]

Also, revealed shot was fired from "intermediate" range. Whatever that means. :???:

Edit: I t means this: In intermediate-range wounds, the muzzle is held away from the skin but close enough that it still produces powder tattooing. This type of wound is also characterized by numerous reddish-brown to orange-red lesions around the entrance to the wound.

So it doesn't tell us much more than it wasn't pointblank, which we already knew.

[Wooster]

Autospy report (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-documents-released-shooting-george-zimmerman/story?id=16371852#.T7VsAu1uH8t)show Martin had THC in his system.

Meaning he smoked marijuana sometime before the confrontation.

Shooting distance is also clarified as between 1" to 18" i.e a distance when two people are grappling.

[Space Cowboy Sasori]

So the young lad was drugged up and fighting this man.

I wonder what the dispute was about.

[Wooster]

I don't Pat. Maybe he got as rambunctious as you do when stoned. `:P

[JLI2infinity]

Although I know some people do suffer from paranoia when they use marijuana, violent crimes are somewhat out of character for someone who's high, most people become relaxed and somewhat lethargic.

[JLI2infinity]

This case has made some interesting developments I was originally just fine with settling for manslaughter and 8-15 years for Zimmerman, but this case is looking a lot like murder and 15+, especially after Zimmerman's interview where he basically stated he followed Trayvon, why go on Hannity and just make a bunch of controversial statements when people were already doubting your character lol, he's beating himself here.

[Wooster]

Hey, the hispanic hater is back.

[JAFL ScrappY-Doo]

Zimmerman says it was God's Plan. Aint that a slap to the face. Not only this guy is stupid to bring religion into it but for people to feel sympathetic towards this actions is beyond me.

[Wooster]

Secularists always amuse me.

Let me translate, it was out of his hands. That's all he was saying.

[JAFL ScrappY-Doo]

Secularists always amuse me.

Let me translate, it was out of his hands. That's all he was saying.
Gun in Zimmerman's 'hand'.
Arizona and Skittles in Trayvon's 'hands'.

Trayvon dead. Yea, it was totally out of Zimmerman's hands.

[JLI2infinity]

Hey, the hispanic hater is back.

???

I'll spare you the old "one of my closest friends is hispanic" cliche even though it's true and just take this as a joke, because I know there's no way you can be serious.