A thought keeps gnawing me

[and17y1]

How shoud i begin.. hmm..:
It is said that Madara Uchiha along with Hashirama Senju co-founded Konoha. But during that time a man known as Onoki also has been living.

We know that Hashirama defeated Madara Uchiha.

The big question:
How is possible for Onoki to live so long without having any special and overhelming abilities, damn it. He is just some guy who can use Dust Release: Detachment of the Primitive World Technique.

But still that badass known as Hashirama Senju, who defeated Madara Uchiha who however can control and use Nine-tails abilities such as TBB against any opponent he wish for, who has EMS and many many overhelming abilities, isnt among the living.

I just cant get it... He inherited SO6P`s body, willpower and physical energy which tells me that he had great powers of endurance. And yet he is dead but that Onoki... who cant be seen from the ground is alive. C`mon man...

What do u think ?

[MinatoXNaruto]

Good question.

[and17y1]

I think something happened and its tightly connected with Madara obtaining Hashirama`s powers. Do u imagine that Madara stealed the whole Mokuton affinity somehow from Hashirama in the end Hashirama was a regular shinobi :D . If thats true i`ll laugh a lot :D

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

Oonoki was really young at the age he fought Madara.

Basically Oonoki was like 18-22 and Madara was like 30-40 something ..
Madara's death is unexplained but he probably died cause he was exhausted or something, weakened from the battle with Hashirama.

Hashirama died cause of age.

[kalmeast]

yea... madara & Hashi are both from the leaf

well, leafs don't last "forever"...they decompose over time
Water would evaporate over time
Lightning does last for a moment
Sand...ahh...little bitty stones..who cares
Stone last for "ever" that why he's still alive cus he made up of Stones:D

[Gouldy17]

i think i remember reading somewhere hashi died in battle which i thought was a little cheap considering how strong he was supposed to be

[JashinSama]

yea... madara & Hashi are both from the leaf

well, leafs don't last "forever"...they decompose over time
Water would evaporate over time
Lightning does last for a moment
Sand...ahh...little bitty stones..who cares
Stone last for "ever" that why he's still alive cus he made up of Stones:D

That wouldn't be Sand. That would be Wind.

Gusts only last so long, then they die out.

[e710]

That wouldn't be Sand. That would be Wind.

Gusts only last so long, then they die out.

Then it would be fire instead of leaf too. Fire only last so long, it burn out.

[EvL j3st3r]

Maybe there's still some info about dust element unknown to us. chapter 546 pg. 14, Muu says to Oonoki, "I see you've lived a long life, was it because of dust element?" Most probably assume that he meant using dust element in battle which in turn kept him from being murdered. but maybe Muu was referring to some characteristic of dust element that can actually extend the users natural life span.

[SilentBlade]

Its not impossible for Onoki to still be around. If we assume that when Onoki was younger Hashirama was about the age of the Kage Onoki answered to, it makes sense. Consider that Hashirama was Tsuade's great grandfather, that would make Onoki about the age of (what would be) her grandfather or Hashirama's son. So it makes decent sense.

If we are simply talking about a generation, it makes sense, Hashirama was the generation that came before Onoki, Onoki is and old guy so here we are :-)

Edit: Also remember Mito Uzumaki, Hashirama's wife, only just was passing away around the time Kushina was going to become the Jinchuriki, so Hashirama and Madara could have been around for quite some time up to that point..

[zerosameri]

He was quite young even so he is only about 50 or 60. So probably a plot hole. Though Madara him self lived a long time. (plot hole so spare me):
>Madara founded the leaf with the 1st about mid 30 years of age
>Did some clan stuff
><chunk of time skipping>
>Kinda left and was not heard off)
>Showed up trying to get the kyuubi (Minato was about late 30ish)
>Helped Itachi kill the clan (naruto was like 13 around this time)
So figuring this he was old him self but looked quite young

[kalmeast]

@JashinSama & e710
lol...good points of correction...:D

hey j3st3r...where've u been?

but seriously Inoki isn't as old as he looks...his height may have played a role lol.
usually all the Kages are similar age from first to current. So if Inoki is the 3rd Tsuchikage, it must mean he's near Hiruzen's age. Btw...Hiruzen was alive and grown up during both hashirama and Tobirama's time and hence Madara's time. HIruzen only died 3yrs ago and would still have been alive for another decade or two if not for Oro...so...yea, i'm blabbin again:D

[Squall]

Maybe there's still some info about dust element unknown to us. chapter 546 pg. 14, Muu says to Oonoki, "I see you've lived a long life, was it because of dust element?" Most probably assume that he meant using dust element in battle which in turn kept him from being murdered. but maybe Muu was referring to some characteristic of dust element that can actually extend the users natural life span.

That is it. His dust technique has the ability to maintain/regrow/repair cells. His biological age is lower than his chronological age compared to anyone without this technique. This allows him to be around till now.

[Xibitz360]

Regarding Hashirama. It has to be old age. Even Rikuddo wasn't spared from this.

Now, Onoki. You have to keep in mind, the bigger the person is, the higher the blood pressure. Meaning that shorter people tend to live longer. (i.e Japan) There are several physical advantages for being small. Such as being less likely to break bones from falling or having faster reaction times. :D

[and17y1]

Maybe there's still some info about dust element unknown to us. chapter 546 pg. 14, Muu says to Oonoki, "I see you've lived a long life, was it because of dust element?" Most probably assume that he meant using dust element in battle which in turn kept him from being murdered. but maybe Muu was referring to some characteristic of dust element that can actually extend the users natural life span.

Okay maybe dust release has benefits, but.....
what if Muu said that because Dust Release is pretty powerful affinity and during his youth, Onoki had defeated his opponents and basicly he does not have any injuries caused by battles. That is another good theory.

[Kyūbi no Yōko]

He was quite young even so he is only about 50 or 60. So probably a plot hole. Though Madara him self lived a long time. (plot hole so spare me):
>Madara founded the leaf with the 1st about mid 30 years of age
>Did some clan stuff
><chunk of time skipping>
>Kinda left and was not heard off)
>Showed up trying to get the kyuubi (Minato was about late 30ish)
>Helped Itachi kill the clan (naruto was like 13 around this time)
So figuring this he was old him self but looked quite young

Prove me that Madara = Tobi.

[K3nsh!n]

Maybe Onoki's "stone-will" is stronger than Hashirama's "will of fire"? xD
What I find even more confusing is that Onoki(and all previous Tsuchikage)from Land of Earth can fly, while none of the Kazekage from Land of Wind can do so! O.O (Gaara doesn't technically fly-he rather levitates using his sand)

[JashinSama]

@JashinSama & e710
lol...good points of correction...:D

hey j3st3r...where've u been?

but seriously Inoki isn't as old as he looks...his height may have played a role lol.
usually all the Kages are similar age from first to current. So if Inoki is the 3rd Tsuchikage, it must mean he's near Hiruzen's age. Btw...Hiruzen was alive and grown up during both hashirama and Tobirama's time and hence Madara's time. HIruzen only died 3yrs ago and would still have been alive for another decade or two if not for Oro...so...yea, i'm blabbin again:D

Inoki? You mean Onoki? Well.. Onoki has a line above the second O. or something like that...
He was quite young even so he is only about 50 or 60. So probably a plot hole. Though Madara him self lived a long time. (plot hole so spare me):
>Madara founded the leaf with the 1st about mid 30 years of age
>Did some clan stuff
><chunk of time skipping>
>Kinda left and was not heard off)
>Showed up trying to get the kyuubi (Minato was about late 30ish)
>Helped Itachi kill the clan (naruto was like 13 around this time)
So figuring this he was old him self but looked quite young

IF Naruto and Sasuke are the same age, it would mean that Sasuke was not 13 when the Uchiha Massacre took place.

He was like 7-10. IF Naruto and Sasuke are the same age, then they took the Chunin exams when they were 13.

The reason I say IF is because Naruto failed the academy 3 years in a row. Meaning that he would have been much older than Konoha 11.

But it's implied that everyone in Konoha 11 is the same age, so Naruto and Sasuke were both 13 during the Chunin exams, Sasuke was not 13 when his parents were killed as Itachi stood before him.

[SilentBlade]

Naruto was born after Sasuke, we know that Sasuke is probably only a few months older based on the chapter that showed Naruto's birth..

[EvL j3st3r]

hey j3st3r...where've u been?
what up kalmeast. Guess I just kinda got burned out on the forum for a while. I still been checkin in and reading what you guys post every chapter tho. Just haven't felt intrigued to make my own post I suppose. :???:

Okay maybe dust release has benefits, but.....
what if Muu said that because Dust Release is pretty powerful affinity and during his youth, Onoki had defeated his opponents and basicly he does not have any injuries caused by battles. That is another good theory.
That very well could be what he meant. Like I said, most would think that Muu was merely suggesting that being able to use dust element in battle has defended him from harm well enough that he lived long. That's the easiest assumption so naturally that's how most of us took it. I'm just saying their could have been a different meaning intended by Muu than the one we originally perceived.

[JashinSama]

Naruto was born after Sasuke, we know that Sasuke is probably only a few months older based on the chapter that showed Naruto's birth..

Either way, Sasuke at 13 can't be carried on 17 year old Itachi's shoulders.

He's too big for that.

The reason I say Naruto is maybe 3 years older than everyone, with the exception of Guy's team being 2 years, is because he failed the Academy exam 3 times.

[SilentBlade]

I just recall in the Manga, when Kushina was going to give birth in the secret location, Sasuke was still and infant. It is quite possible! though its definitely a plot inconsistency saying that Naruto failed out 3 times by the time Sasuke got in. The only thing I would say could resolve said statement would be that perhaps children have to pass certain exams prior to entrance and can do so at any point up to the day they start the academy.

Though thats pure speculation and it probably is a plot inconsistency.

[JashinSama]

^Plot inconsistency is plot inconsistency.

And no it is not possible for you at 17 to carry your 13 year old brother without struggle.

Especially when this person is half your height.

[DShika]

Kalmeast hasit ight, if you go by general age guidelines, the Kage's by number are around the same age... Talking present time Raikage is 4th, Kazekage is 5th, Mizukage is 5th, Hokage is 5th, yet Tsuchikage is 3rd..same as Hiruzen who only passed just a few years ago and he was in his late 70's I beleive. Oonoki is still Kage cuz of his stubborness

[JashinSama]

Are the Kage like the pope? I mean pope as in "serve until death"?

Or are the Kage like presidents? Who only serve for a time period or until resignation or impeachment?

[SilentBlade]

It kind of looks like it could be either. Hiruzan stepped down at a certain point so that Minato could step up. Though we have Onoki who just is in that role until he dies (or so it seams). Could just be based on whether they have the support of the village as well as whether or not they want to continue on or not.

[kalmeast]

Are the Kage like the pope? I mean pope as in "serve until death"?

Or are the Kage like presidents? Who only serve for a time period or until resignation or impeachment?

i believe they stay Kage until they're feel like someone should take over either cuz their old, weaker and others...
it looks like Tobirama become hokage while Hashi was still alive and Hiruzen was still alive when he make Minato Hokage then became hokage again... so yea, u're right just like popes, presidents and Ninjas:lol:

[SilentBlade]

i believe they stay Kage until they're feel like someone should take over either cuz their old, weaker and others...
it looks like Tobirama become hokage while Hashi was still alive and Hiruzen was still alive when he make Minato Hokage then became hokage again... so yea, u're right just like popes, presidents and Ninjas:lol:

its true, its based on who has the biggest hat!

[e710]

Kalmeast hasit ight, if you go by general age guidelines, the Kage's by number are around the same age... Talking present time Raikage is 4th, Kazekage is 5th, Mizukage is 5th, Hokage is 5th, yet Tsuchikage is 3rd..same as Hiruzen who only passed just a few years ago and he was in his late 70's I beleive. Oonoki is still Kage cuz of his stubborness

Hiruzen was 69/70 about the start of series and when he died. Just wanted to fix that there.


I too think 3rd Tsuchikage is about the same age as Hiruzen. The 2nd Hokage was about 35-50(tops even that is pushing it) when he appointed Hiruzen as Hokage and Hiruzen was somewhere from 20-28(probably early 20's I doubt he would be hokage if still in teens). 2nd Hokage and 1st Hokage were brothers and rivals to Madara and his brother who were about 1-3years apart and so probably the Senju brothers were about 1-5 years apart(maybe a bit more but no more than 7). Madara and 1st hokage were almost the same age. So if Madara is about 5 years older than Tobirama and Tobirama died at about 45 and Hiruzen was about 23ish. Then Madara was about 55 when he fought an 23 year old Onoki. Also Madara lived long life so my numbers are a bit off, 10 year guarantee:geek:

But yea about when the 1st Hokage died in combat seems fishy but I suppose he could have ran out of chakra but I don't see one person killing him because they would've had a reputable name.

[zerosameri]

IF Naruto and Sasuke are the same age, it would mean that Sasuke was not 13 when the Uchiha Massacre took place.

He was like 7-10. IF Naruto and Sasuke are the same age, then they took the Chunin exams when they were 13.

The reason I say IF is because Naruto failed the academy 3 years in a row. Meaning that he would have been much older than Konoha 11.

But it's implied that everyone in Konoha 11 is the same age, so Naruto and Sasuke were both 13 during the Chunin exams, Sasuke was not 13 when his parents were killed as Itachi stood before him.Sasuke was 13 and Naruto was also 13 I believe (clearly younger at the killing).

And thats a plot hole, because Neji is the oldest of the Bunch (17 [there is a few others that age too]) and that's only a year younger than Naruto.

Let me put it this way

Naruto:
12 -13
16 Right now

Sasuke:
12 -13
16 Right now

Neji:
13 -14
17 Right now

Yes I know Neji has nothing to do with this but I am using his age to show that its a plot hole.

Prove me that Madara = Tobi.
I am not saying he is, now am I?

Danzou(?) and Itachi also said that it WAS Madara who helped. The elders called him in and so forth, I believe Danzou told us the flash back.

And with the other one, I am assuming it was truly Madara as everyone says it is.
Either way, Sasuke at 13 can't be carried on 17 year old Itachi's shoulders.

He's too big for that.

The reason I say Naruto is maybe 3 years older than everyone, with the exception of Guy's team being 2 years, is because he failed the Academy exam 3 times.No, its very possible. Paule can carry his girl friends on his shoulders with out a struggle. Paul is 14 and Maddison is 15; and Paul is a small dude he can fit into M or L girls size clothes. :I

[K3nsh!n]

IF Naruto and Sasuke are the same age, it would mean that Sasuke was not 13 when the Uchiha Massacre took place.

He was like 7-10. IF Naruto and Sasuke are the same age, then they took the Chunin exams when they were 13.

The reason I say IF is because Naruto failed the academy 3 years in a row. Meaning that he would have been much older than Konoha 11.

But it's implied that everyone in Konoha 11 is the same age, so Naruto and Sasuke were both 13 during the Chunin exams, Sasuke was not 13 when his parents were killed as Itachi stood before him.
Sasuke was 13 and Naruto was also 13 I believe (clearly younger at the killing).

And thats a plot hole, because Neji is the oldest of the Bunch (17 [there is a few others that age too]) and that's only a year younger than Naruto.

Let me put it this way

Naruto:
12 -13
16 Right now

Sasuke:
12 -13
16 Right now

Neji:
13 -14
17 Right now

Yes I know Neji has nothing to do with this but I am using his age to show that its a plot hole.

If I remember it correctly, everyone from Team Guy is older than most of Konoha 11 because they all took a year gap before appearing the Chuunin exam! Guy felt that they were not ready and suggested that year gap to during which they could gain extra experience...

As for Naruto and rest others being the same age:
Maybe Naruto entered the academy a couple of years earlier, but failed 3x.
So in the end, he graduated out of the academy at the same age as others.

[zerosameri]

If I remember it correctly, everyone from Team Guy is older than most of Konoha 11 because they all took a year gap before appearing the Chuunin exam! Guy felt that they were not ready and suggested that year gap to during which they could gain extra experience...

As for Naruto and rest others being the same age:
Maybe Naruto entered the academy a couple of years earlier, but failed 3x.
So in the end, he graduated out of the academy at the same age as others.If so he would of has started at age 9 :I

[K3nsh!n]

If so he would of has started at age 9 :I

Naruto must have been feeling lonely and thought entering the academy early would help him in making friends?

[zerosameri]

Naruto must have been feeling lonely and thought entering the academy early would help him making friends? I am not going to say no to that; but that is highly unlikely.

[JashinSama]

It kind of looks like it could be either. Hiruzan stepped down at a certain point so that Minato could step up. Though we have Onoki who just is in that role until he dies (or so it seams). Could just be based on whether they have the support of the village as well as whether or not they want to continue on or not.

They were both Kage.

Notice how right before Tobi summoned the Kyuubi into Konoha, he was in the Hokage office.

[JashinSama]

If I remember it correctly, everyone from Team Guy is older than most of Konoha 11 because they all took a year gap before appearing the Chuunin exam! Guy felt that they were not ready and suggested that year gap to during which they could gain extra experience...

As for Naruto and rest others being the same age:
Maybe Naruto entered the academy a couple of years earlier, but failed 3x.
So in the end, he graduated out of the academy at the same age as others.

As Zero said, he would have started much earlier than everyone else... Which is entirely plausible, as Kakashi (or maybe Itachi) was... A chunin at the age of 6.

[tsuki]

I'm pretty sure Onoki was only a kid when Konha was founded. So it isn't that hard to believe he is still alive nowadays.

[Rasen_Chidori]

Hashirama couldn't have died of old age, when Orochimaru revived him, he was still relatively young and Edo revives the person as they were at their time of death. So either Hashirama died in battle somehow or it's possible that he died of disease or some other ailment.

I find it kinda strange that Kishi is now hyping Hashirama as possibly one of the strongest ninja who ever lived considering the fact he didn't seem overly powerful when he fought the Third, the only explaination I can think of is that Orochimaru's Edo only recreated a small percentage of his power. (Or more likely, Kishi didn't originally plan on having Hashirama being as powerful and relevant to the story as he is now hyping him to be.)

As for Onoki, it is possible he could still be alive considering it's been about 80 years since the founding of Konoha, so this'd put him somewhere between 80 and 90 years old.

[tsuki]

Hashirama couldn't have died of old age, when Orochimaru revived him, he was still relatively young and Edo revives the person as they were at their time of death.

Not true. Edo Nagato was revived in his prime form.

[kalmeast]

I find it kinda strange that Kishi is now hyping Hashirama as possibly one of the strongest ninja who ever lived considering the fact he didn't seem overly powerful when he fought the Third, the only explaination I can think of is that Orochimaru's Edo only recreated a small percentage of his power. (Or more likely, Kishi didn't originally plan on having Hashirama being as powerful and relevant to the story as he is now hyping him to be.)

i did think of the same thing as well...I dont think kishi had originally planned this as he made it clear Minato was the strongest dead Shinobi ever (of course beside rikoudo)...and now hashi is almost being compared to Rik...?
yea...and i don think any of the ET's fought to their capacity either except for Madara who's pretty free...


Not true. Edo Nagato was revived in his prime form.
Nagato wasn't ET'd to his prime was he...he still was emaciated...he came to his prime once he absorbed KillerB's hachibi chakra... Nagato was never old to begin with i thought..

[and17y1]

i did think of the same thing as well...I dont think kishi had originally planned this as he made it clear Minato was the strongest dead Shinobi ever (of course beside rikoudo)...and now hashi is almost being compared to Rik...?
yea...and i don think any of the ET's fought to their capacity either except for Madara who's pretty free...



Nagato wasn't ET'd to his prime was he...he still was emaciated...he came to his prime once he absorbed KillerB's hachibi chakra... Nagato was never old to begin with i thought..

Nope. In the manga it was said he was with red hair. I think you know what this means, dont u? :)

[JashinSama]

and Zero, I have no idea who Paul is.

I'm not involved in your personal life.

[SilentBlade]

He did have his red hair, thats true, but what I think he means by "prime" was the time when he was still forming up the akatsuki as somthing good instead of what it turned out to be. Nagato without the pains was simply not that powerful nor strong if you looked at him, it was the 6 Pains that he controlled that gave him power in the state of condition he was in. The time he was most powerful (personally as opposed to by proxy) was before he did what he did with the chakra rods.

[slyfoxx]

tsunade is around 50 so ill place onoki around 80. hes a kage so that mean hes a top tier ninja show i can see him being healthy to be in battle....@ kenshin.. i think his rock wieght technique make him lighter than air so he not really flying but floating

[and17y1]

He did have his red hair, thats true, but what I think he means by "prime" was the time when he was still forming up the akatsuki as somthing good instead of what it turned out to be. Nagato without the pains was simply not that powerful nor strong if you looked at him, it was the 6 Pains that he controlled that gave him power in the state of condition he was in. The time he was most powerful (personally as opposed to by proxy) was before he did what he did with the chakra rods.

Actually no. Nagato became bony when he used the powers of Gedo Mazo and the usage of Gedo Mazo might also affected his powers. And when Nagato was Edo Tenseied he wasnt bony-looking. He was like his older self. So may be that is what it means for Nagato to be in his prime :) to be a non-bony, healthy person :D

[SilentBlade]

ah I thought when he was ET he looked sorta bony and what not, like he was taken out of the contraption he was in when he controlled the pains and was just walking around. Perhaps I saw it wrong.

[Fuuin]

Gotta give it up to Onoki though. He's fighting with everhting he's got.

[zerosameri]

and Zero, I have no idea who Paul is.

I'm not involved in your personal life.
No you don't say! I was making a point by using a real life situation and it easier just to use their names other than "I know this dude who can pick up his girlfriend on his back no problem. He is also smaller bla bla bla.