Hiruzen Sarutobi vs A

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

the "god of all kages" vs Booker T

fight takes place an adamantium cage the size of Madison Square Garden

Saru starts with his monkey

A's got both his arms but does not start with Raiton armor

[Nightmare Luffy]

I have no idea how much if a fight Raikage could put up @ this point but Hiruzen is undoubtedly stronger. Kabuto said he was the strongest Kage out of all Kages(when A was raikage) and Kishi himself said he was the strongest HOkage. he beat hashirama& Tobirama at the same time, they might not have went allout but it says something when hashirama beat the full 100% kyubi and Madara with EMS at the same time.

this was all in his old age not to mention saying "god of all kages" in the OP says something about his power. :p

[e710]

By hype A well piss himself.
By what we have seen A close lines his head off.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I have no idea how much if a fight Raikage could put up @ this point but Hiruzen is undoubtedly stronger. Kabuto said he was the strongest Kage out of all Kages(when A was raikage) and Kishi himself said he was the strongest HOkage. he beat hashirama& Tobirama at the same time, they might not have went allout but it says something when hashirama beat the full 100% kyubi and Madara with EMS at the same time.

this was all in his old age not to mention saying "god of all kages" in the OP says something about his power. :p

you know what's really awesome? That all this hype was totally backed up by feats

oh wait..no it wasn't

[Cult of Personality]

A annihirapes.

[Uchiha Sora]

A pretty much dodges everyhing Hiruzen throws at him.
Hiruzen gets his chest cavity blown out.

[Nightmare Luffy]

you know what's really awesome? That all this hype was totally backed up by feats

oh wait..no it wasn't
Sorry I was under the impression we were going by what happened in the manga not something inaccurate. I guess Rikduou Sennin looses to Konohamaru then.

[NBT]

A clotheslines Sarutobi and whatshisface's head off.

afterwards.
gUTXaFq8f2w&feature

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Sorry I was under the impression we were going by what happened in the manga not something inaccurate. I guess Rikduou Sennin looses to Konohamaru then.

because of his absolute lack of feats on panel

but that has nothing to do with Saru he has feats they just aren't very impressive when measured against newer ones

[Nightmare Luffy]

because of his absolute lack of feats on panel

but that has nothing to do with Saru he has feats they just aren't very impressive when measured against newer ones
So why arent we using the hype that Sarutobi has as the god of shinobi, the strongest Kage, the stronges hokage, trained under hashirama and tobirama, traine the Sannin, knows every jutsu in Konoha? Im preeety sure kabuto knows what he's talking about. and pretty sure Kishi knows what hes talking about too considering he ya know made the manga.

, also proceeds to list 20 Kabuto intelligence feats lol

Not to mention yeah its a shame the fight happened back when ninjas werent powerful if we had powerscaling & that fight happened now in the manga pretty sure 20 villages would be no more. :p

[Kuromaki]

I presume that Sarutobi is old in this one?

[RasenGrenadier]

A clotheslines Sarutobi and whatshisface's head off.

afterwards.
gUTXaFq8f2w&feature

LOLOLOL ^ this will most definatly happen. hiruzen doesn't have enough speed.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

So why arent we using the hype that Sarutobi has as the god of shinobi, the strongest Kage, the stronges hokage, trained under hashirama and tobirama, traine the Sannin, knows every jutsu in Konoha? Im preeety sure kabuto knows what he's talking about. and pretty sure Kishi knows what hes talking about too considering he ya know made the manga.

, also proceeds to list 20 Kabuto intelligence feats lol

Not to mention yeah its a shame the fight happened back when ninjas werent powerful if we had powerscaling & that fight happened now in the manga pretty sure 20 villages would be no more. :p

because Hype isn't valid evidence..that's why

while his fight with the two prior kages was impressive it A's another monster alltogether

[Nightmare Luffy]

again, why not?

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

again, why not?

a lack of feats shown on panel

[Nightmare Luffy]

Hype isn't valid evidence..that's why
This is what Im asking why not to, hype doesnt have anything to do with feats so IDK why you just brought it up

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

This is what Im asking why not to, hype doesnt have anything to do with feats so IDK why you just brought it up

you';re asking me why hype isn't valid evidence on a feat based debate system?

and your response is "boss feats aint got nuttin ta do wit it"

this aint MFG pally

[J-Sun Tasogare]

I can say my friend is the strongest person in the world, but that likely isn't true, he may be strong, but there's no way of me knowing everyone in the world's strength.

A turns the old man into dust.

[Nightmare Luffy]

you';re asking me why hype isn't valid evidence on a feat based debate system?

and your response is "boss feats aint got nuttin ta do wit it"

this aint MFG pally No, I said, feats has nothing to do with hype. I asked why hype wasnt valid, you said "because its a feat based system" well then why? Its not that hard to get I want to know why youre not supposed to use hype here and why its not valid evidence. I think its common sense to think of hype as perfectly valid so i want to know why you dont think so.
I can say my friend is the strongest person in the world, but that likely isn't true, he may be strong, but there's no way of me knowing everyone in the world's strength.

A turns the old man into dust.
Did you create your friend? hmm dont think so. Maybe if you had actually created this universe, if you said that then itd be true.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

No, I said, feats has nothing to do with hype. I asked why hype wasnt valid, you said "because its a feat based system" well then why? Its not that hard to get I want to know why youre not supposed to use hype here and why its not valid evidence. I think its common sense to think of hype as perfectly valid so i want to know why you dont think so.

Did you create your friend? hmm dont think so. Maybe if you had actually created this universe, if you said that then itd be true.
/facepalm

Kishi didn't say he was the strongest Hokage, a character did, so it'd be the exact same thing as me saying my friend is the strongest person in the world.

Besides he also stated that Minato was the strongest Hokage ever, same with the 1st. This is old Hiruzen anyways, so any point regarding his hype is invalid.

Oh okay, if he's the strongest Kage, then can you tell me which of his super strong attacks kills A?

[e710]

No one knows any super strong attack best we can do is speculate because we are probably not going to see anything cannon from him. But if you add hype he was regarded as God of Shinobi while A was still in charge so he should be able to win in a fight with hype.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

No one knows any super strong attack best we can do is speculate because we are probably not going to see anything cannon from him. But if you add hype he was regarded as God of Shinobi while A was still in charge so he should be able to win in a fight with hype.

Okay so he's super strong and is skilled and ninjustu, but what attack does he have that's going to harm A?

[e710]

Okay so he's super strong and is skilled and ninjustu, but what attack does he have that's going to harm A?

I'm not saying he will harm A. Just saying in a match with hype the 3rd hokage is god of shinobi.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

I'm not saying he will harm A. Just saying in a match with hype the 3rd hokage is god of shinobi.

This isn't a match of hype though.

[Uchiha Sora]

I'm not saying he will harm A. Just saying in a match with hype the 3rd hokage is god of shinobi.
Hype works for A too. A was the fastest man alive. And Saru's only feats weren't very impressive, so even hype won't stop him from getting blitzed. Especially in his old age.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

No, I said, feats has nothing to do with hype. I asked why hype wasnt valid, you said "because its a feat based system" well then why? Its not that hard to get I want to know why youre not supposed to use hype here and why its not valid evidence. I think its common sense to think of hype as perfectly valid so i want to know why you dont think so.

only dishonest tards use hype and implied capacity..instead of consistent showings



Did you create your friend? hmm dont think so. Maybe if you had actually created this universe, if you said that then itd be true.

and if I was a hack with no talent who can't even keep his own universe straight- what value would my statement have

/facepalm

Kishi didn't say he was the strongest Hokage, a character did, so it'd be the exact same thing as me saying my friend is the strongest person in the world.

Besides he also stated that Minato was the strongest Hokage ever, same with the 1st. This is old Hiruzen anyways, so any point regarding his hype is invalid.

Oh okay, if he's the strongest Kage, then can you tell me which of his super strong attacks kills A?

if he was the strongest Kage to ever exist he'd be superior to the Third Raikage a man who stalemated a god damn Bijuu

if that's the case why didn't he personally walk into the Uchiha compound and using non lethal force humiliate the entire clan under ten seconds and then warn them of the price they'd pay for treason? that would even be keeping with his world views due using non lethal force.

Hell why didn't He personally man handled Madara kill him and shove the kyuubi right back into Kushina?

I can say my friend is the strongest person in the world, but that likely isn't true, he may be strong, but there's no way of me knowing everyone in the world's strength.

A turns the old man into dust.


bingo

[Nightmare Luffy]

/facepalm

Kishi didn't say he was the strongest Hokage, a character did, so it'd be the exact same thing as me saying my friend is the strongest person in the world.

Besides he also stated that Minato was the strongest Hokage ever, same with the 1st. This is old Hiruzen anyways, so any point regarding his hype is invalid.

Oh okay, if he's the strongest Kage, then can you tell me which of his super strong attacks kills A?
Yeah the character thats the smartest in the Narutoverse? I guess we just ignore him. KISHI said he was the strongest Hokage but that's not what makes a difference KABUTO said he was the strongest kage, not hokage, but kage, this was when A was kage.

When did he say Minato was the strongest hokage? Hiruzen beat the first hokage and tobirama @ the same time, and the 1st Hokage beat Kurama and EMS Madara, why are you acting like Kishi said every single kage was the strongest? Hiruzen beat all of them before, & Minatos unrelated because kabuto still said that Hiruzen in his old age is stronger than A even if he were stronger than Hiruzen

Rikudo Sennin is the strongest ninja to ever live? can you tell me what one of his super strong attacks kills Sakura?
only dishonest tards use hype and implied capacity..instead of consistent showings
This post just insult quite alot of BattleGround members...
and if I was a hack with no talent who can't even keep his own universe straight- what value would my statement haveWell since you created the universe whatever you say is fact so it would have canon value
if he was the strongest Kage to ever exist he'd be superior to the Third Raikage a man who stalemated a god damn BijuuHe was the strongest kage at that itme, but yes Prime Sarutobi rapes any other kage easy.

if that's the case why didn't he personally walk into the Uchiha compound and using non lethal force humiliate the entire clan under ten seconds and then warn them of the price they'd pay for treason? that would even be keeping with his world views due using non lethal force.Because of his character which isnt accepted here otherwise Naruto would loose to Sakura

Hell why didn't He personally man handled Madara kill him and shove the kyuubi right back into Kushina?
bingosee above please

So..you still didnt give me ANYTHING that explains why hype shouldnt be used other than "cause only tards use it", support that please..

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Yeah the character thats the smartest in the Narutoverse? I guess we just ignore him. KISHI said he was the strongest Hokage but that's not what makes a difference KABUTO said he was the strongest kage, not hokage, but kage, this was when A was kage.

who gives a god damn what Kishi says feats matter nothing else does


When did he say Minato was the strongest hokage? Hiruzen beat the first hokage and tobirama @ the same time, and the 1st Hokage beat Kurama and EMS Madara, why are you acting like Kishi said every single kage was the strongest? Hiruzen beat all of them before, & Minatos unrelated because kabuto still said that Hiruzen in his old age is stronger than A even if he were stronger than Hiruzen

lol more character statements


Rikudo Sennin is the strongest ninja to ever live? can you tell me what one of his super strong attacks kills Sakura?

is he? he did something on panel?


This post just insult quite alot of BattleGround members...

really? one of the new edicts announced when herokings had his titty attack was that from now on you need to grow a thick skin and stop being hypersensitive

and if they feel insulted all the better maybe then they'll sober to the truth..that things will be done the proper way from now on

Well since you created the universe whatever you say is fact so it would have canon value


nonsense what ever I show you matters

]He was the strongest kage at that itme, but yes Prime Sarutobi rapes any other kage easy.

not true assumes facts not in evidence


Because of his character which isnt accepted here otherwise Naruto would loose to Sakura

his character? not true he was perfectly willing to fight his senseis perfectly willing to lay a beat down on Orochimaru

he faced demented racists who were hell bent on reducing the rest of his village to second class citizens who considered him and all others not uchiha subhuman...you seriously are gonna claim he wouldn't utterly ruin them all in mere seconds..if he could have? to save thousands more?

he absolutely would have..so are now in a corner NL..you have to acknowledge one of the following things.. That Sarutobi could have done it..and had shown a willingness to do under similar circumstances and did not..either because A: He's a retard and a coward B: PIS exists at which case you'd have to exclude it.

The other option is that..no in fact Masashi Kishimoto being a horrible writer talked out from his rear end like usual and statements even from authors of quality fictions..are barely tolerable that from some one who is just plain terrible..and inconsistent just aint cut it

and as usual Kishi was full of crap


So..you still didnt give me ANYTHING that explains why hype shouldnt be used other than "cause only tards use it", support that please..

because consistent Feats are all that matter

[Nightmare Luffy]

who gives a god damn what Kishi says feats matter nothing else doesIm completely baffled anyone in their right mind would say something so ridiculous, seriously man what..?
lol more character statementswhich arent valid why?
also lol quite the double standard "A said he was the fastest shinobi alive" hmmmmmmm
is he? he did something on panel?LOL youve gotta be kidding, yep its official guys Rikudo Sennin looses to Sakura
really? one of the new edicts announced when herokings had his titty attack was that from now on you need to grow a thick skin and stop being hypersensitive

and if they feel insulted all the better maybe then they'll sober to the truth..that things will be done the proper way from now onI was just talking about you know the rules of the forum about you know 1. Be Civil

- Keep discussions civil and respectful. Debate is good, flaming and harassment are not.
I kinda expect a mod of all people to follow them!
nonsense what ever I show you mattersI like how youre calling everything I say nonsense with absolute nothing to back it up. Okay, why is it nonsense that you the god of the univese say something? that's ridiculous Im extremely shocked someone would really believe this. If kishi said everyone in the Naruto thought 4+4=23 then its true end of story jusut because he doesnt show an on panel where someone says "4+4=23" then its not true? where is this logic, he made the damn manga I want to see real argument from you that says clearly why not too accept hype or what kishi said. because this is very very very baffling I have no idea why you would ever argue against the creator of the manga. Look @ your first sentence, "who gives a god damn what Kishi says"..thats something Id put into my signature just to get a good laugh I want to see what your logic is, I really really dont understand at all why you would believe that.
not true assumes facts not in evidence
k after ignoring the Creator Of The Manga, let's ignore the smartest Naruto character too then
his character? not true he was perfectly willing to fight his senseis perfectly willing to lay a beat down on Orochimaru
he faced demented racists who were hell bent on reducing the rest of his village to second class citizens who considered him and all others not uchiha subhuman...you seriously are gonna claim he wouldn't utterly ruin them all in mere seconds..if he could have? to save thousands more?

he absolutely would have..so are now in a corner NL..you have to acknowledge one of the following things.. That Sarutobi could have done it..and had shown a willingness to do under similar circumstances and did not..either because A: He's a retard and a coward B: PIS exists at which case you'd have to exclude it.

The other option is that..no in fact Masashi Kishimoto being a horrible writer talked out from his rear end like usual and statements even from authors of quality fictions..are barely tolerable that from some one who is just plain terrible..and inconsistent just aint cut itRight the reason Jiraiya didnt say "ok Oro lets kill the orphans" & the same reason Oro got out alive against Hiruzen when they first encountered? Hiruzen said like 10 times that he was too soft and he didnt kill him back then
The other option is that..no in fact Masashi Kishimoto being a horrible writer talked out from his rear end like usual and statements even from authors of quality fictions..are barely tolerable that from some one who is just plain terrible..and inconsistent just aint cut it

and as usual Kishi was full of crapWow..just because YOU dont like Kishi doesnt mean everything HE says in HIS own universe isnt fact. Its really not my fault you dont like him and think hype isnt valid but it still is.

why isnt hype valid I mean really how hard is this to understand. IWD your logic is ridiculous I really want clarification really really really urgently want it.

because consistent Feats are all that matter Lol

[waterluffyG2]

Im completely baffled anyone in their right mind would say something so ridiculous, seriously man what..?
which arent valid why?
No one cares what Kishi says. He doesn't even know how long five seconds is, so can't be trusted with any information at all. If no-one has ever shown it, it doesn't exist.
LOL youve gotta be kidding, yep its official guys Rikudo Sennin looses to Sakura
There is no real evidence Rikudo Sennin even existed. So putting him against Sakura is a moot point.
I was just talking about you know the rules of the forum about you know 1. Be Civil

- Keep discussions civil and respectful. Debate is good, flaming and harassment are not.
I kinda expect a mod of all people to follow them!
He's not flaming, he is stating facts.
I like how youre calling everything I say nonsense with absolute nothing to back it up. Okay, why is it nonsense that you the god of the univese say something? that's ridiculous Im extremely shocked someone would really believe this. If kishi said everyone in the Naruto thought 4+4=23 then its true end of story jusut because he doesnt show an on panel where someone says "4+4=23" then its not true? where is this logic, he made the damn manga
If the god of this universe existed and he told you houses are made of jelly, the moon doesn't exist, and cars move at lightspeed, would you believe him?

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Im completely baffled anyone in their right mind would say something so ridiculous, seriously man what..?

he's a writer an unreliable narrator writers screw up all the time even the good ones

during the TV show run Joss Whedon said Buffy was on par with Spiderman yet physically a 13 year old Cassandra Cain had better feats then Buffy did and The Punisher had better strength feats...both of those people are insects to spiderman

do we take his comment as fact and argue it despite not showing it at all? Despite Buffy straining to lift a ton?


which arent valid why?

because spoken word has less value than tangible quantifiable feats some character statements can be trusted because feats at least hint at the possibility...

but all Hiruzen has is the zombie fight which was bad..and spoken word

I'm not saying he isn't very powerful that much is obvious IIRC I think he even did pretty well against the kyuubi but to claim he can solo the kages is a bit much to claim he can fight against the third or fourth raikage is silly



also lol quite the double standard "A said he was the fastest shinobi alive" hmmmmmmm

double standard my balls I've always maintained Gai was fatser


LOL youve gotta be kidding, yep its official guys Rikudo Sennin looses to Sakura


can you prove to me he did half the crap they claimed he did beyond creating the Bijuu? and we have no idea how he did it for all we know it involved a massive multi hour long ritual with hundreds of his disciples backing him up

I was just talking about you know the rules of the forum about you know 1. Be Civil

- Keep discussions civil and respectful. Debate is good, flaming and harassment are not.
I kinda expect a mod of all people to follow them!

I refer to this (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5848659&postcount=85)

while I'm going to protect your basic human decency you will not be walked on egg shells too by myself or any of the posters in this section..

what I said was hardly flaming it was a statement of fact an assessment of a major and crippling flaw in the capacity of many debaters here.. many of whom I have zero issues with beyond that and welcome them to change


I like how youre calling everything I say nonsense with absolute nothing to back it up. Okay, why is it nonsense that you the god of the univese say something? that's ridiculous Im extremely shocked someone would really believe this. If kishi said everyone in the Naruto thought 4+4=23 then its true end of story jusut because he doesnt show an on panel where someone says "4+4=23" then its not true? where is this logic, he made the damn manga I want to see real argument from you that says clearly why not too accept hype or what kishi said. because this is very very very baffling I have no idea why you would ever argue against the creator of the manga. Look @ your first sentence, "who gives a god damn what Kishi says"..thats something Id put into my signature just to get a good laugh I want to see what your logic is, I really really dont understand at all why you would believe that.

you want to know why this not valid I'll tell you why: because in a feat based debate system anything stated anything plot can be impeached and invalidated...the only thing that matters is consistent showings that is all, all other considerations are secondary and subject to invalidation at the consensus of the masses

this is not up for debate



k after ignoring the Creator Of The Manga, let's ignore the smartest Naruto character too then
Right the reason Jiraiya didnt say "ok Oro lets kill the orphans" & the same reason Oro got out alive against Hiruzen when they first encountered? Hiruzen said like 10 times that he was too soft and he didnt kill him back then

notice how none of this counters my "he beats them all so badly they end up an entire clan of Mohamid ali's"

Wow..just because YOU dont like Kishi doesnt mean everything HE says in HIS own universe isnt fact. Its really not my fault you dont like him and think hype isnt valid but it still is.

no because he's a bad and inconsistent writer everything he says is suspect because he cannot maintain consistency it's difficult to take anything seriously because everything must be measured against the only thing that is barely consistent in his manga..the feats

oh and we do the same thing to western comics..we do the samething to bleach

why aren't you pitching temper tantrums there too?

[Nightmare Luffy]

No one cares what Kishi says. He doesn't even know how long five seconds is, so can't be trusted with any information at all. If no-one has ever shown it, it doesn't exist.

There is no real evidence Rikudo Sennin even existed. So putting him against Sakura is a moot point.

He's not flaming, he is stating facts.

If the god of this universe existed and he told you houses are made of jelly, the moon doesn't exist, and cars move at lightspeed, would you believe him?
Lol no one cares what the creator of the manga says. Its official, you guys know more than the author. I call BS but ok

Just because it might be a fact I'm stupid doesnt mean someone needs to say it, I quoted the rules lol. pretty ridiculous, alright waterluffy youre stupid and dumb as a brick obviously and I can say that even tho the rules directly contradict it. IWD said it hes a mod so that means I can!:D

If he said that, the houses would be made of jelly so yes I would. If Kishi said the houses in his universe were jelly he's not talking to the characters in Naruto they already know that. God tals to his other God friends who created their OWN universes & said "oh yeah NL and waterluffys universe their houses are made of jello" well they really are we're just fictional, he created us anything he says goes. Its pretty common sense the only reason its not common sense in your guys eyes is because it doesnt support you arguments here
he's a writer an unreliable narrator writers screw up all the time even the good ones

during the TV show run Joss Whedon said Buffy was on par with Spiderman yet physically a 13 year old Cassandra Cain had better feats then Buffy did and The Punisher had better strength feats...both of those people are insects to spiderman

do we take his comment as fact and argue it despite not showing it at all? Despite Buffy straining to lift a ton? Thats weird, he's discussing other universes, he didn't create those universes there's not a real way to gauge that. But yes Im pretty sure he knows his character enough. This has nothing to do with what th author says about his universe btw, Kishi might not know who "asdanmc" is but Kishi could say Naruto is stronger than him without knowing who it is in the first place its a little different from saying things about his characters that he created

because spoken word has less value than tangible quantifiable feats some character statements can be trusted because feats at least hint at the possibility...Good thing nothing contradicts it & everything supports it such as Kishi saying so himself, and Kabuto is the smartest Naruto character

but all Hiruzen has is the zombie fight which was bad..and spoken wordand the author's word which>>>>>>>mine, yours and anyone on this forum and anyoe who isn't Kishi

I'm not saying he isn't very powerful that much is obvious IIRC I think he even did pretty well against the kyuubi but to claim he can solo the kages is a bit much to claim he can fight against the third or fourth raikage is sillyI didnt say he can solo the kages I dont think anyone can do that but he wouldnt get destroyed, Im going by hype here its not my fault you think its stupid but Kishis word>yours so when he says Hiruzens stronger just because you think A or 3rd Raikage are teh bestssests characters evar it doesnt change them loosing to him.

double standard my balls I've always maintained Gai was fatser Oh ok well then Ive seen plenty other people use crap logic when it comes to that then lol

can you prove to me he did half the crap they claimed he did beyond creating the Bijuu? and we have no idea how he did it for all we know it involved a massive multi hour long ritual with hundreds of his disciples backing him upYes, he had rinnegan I don't think anyone with rinnegan would be weak, he split the juubi up with bautsu sozo I thought it was obvious, well Im not getting into this because youre actually claiming Rikudou Senni was weak until we see on screen fact of him doing something so... lol


I refer to this (http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5848659&postcount=85)

while I'm going to protect your basic human decency you will not be walked on egg shells too by myself or any of the posters in this section..

what I said was hardly flaming it was a statement of fact an assessment of a major and crippling flaw in the capacity of many debaters here.. many of whom I have zero issues with beyond that and welcome them to change
Not just this, talking about in other threads whne you right out say "you're stupid, dumb' etc etc. just becayse someone wont be 'walked on eggshells too" doesnt mean you have the right to flame them lol its a rule for a reason just because they say something completely retarded doesnt change it. It might be a fact they could be the dumbets person in existence well so what rules are rules

I cant see that thread btw so IDK what you mean

you want to know why this not valid I'll tell you why: because in a feat based debate system anything stated anything plot can be impeached and invalidated...the only thing that matters is consistent showings that is all, all other considerations are secondary and subject to invalidation at the consensus of the massesOK so youre saying if you were using common sense and not following this stupid debate system you would agree that hype is perfectly acceptable right?

this is not up for debate

notice how none of this counters my "he beats them all so badly they end up an entire clan of Mohamid ali's" Yeah thats really weird he would have done that if (insert the part you ignored)

no because he's a bad and inconsistent writer everything he says is suspect because he cannot maintain consistency it's difficult to take anything seriously because everything must be measured against the only thing that is barely consistent in his manga..the feats
oh and we do the same thing to western comics..we do the samething to bleach

why aren't you pitching temper tantrums there too?wow

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Lol no one cares what the creator of the manga says. Its official, you guys know more than the author. I call BS but ok

want to allow fanwank and speculation as valid? Take your ftl rocks over to Space battles or movie codec

but not here

Just because it might be a fact I'm stupid doesnt mean someone needs to say it, I quoted the rules lol. pretty ridiculous, alright waterluffy youre stupid and dumb as a brick obviously and I can say that even tho the rules directly contradict it. IWD said it hes a mod so that means I can!:D

actually you calling waterluffy stupid when he has infact presented a superior argument..and used common sense and basic reasoning skills would constitute flaming

If he said that, the houses would be made of jelly so yes I would.


then your either blind or naive

Thats weird, he's discussing other universes, he didn't create those universes there's not a real way to gauge that. But yes Im pretty sure he knows his character enough. This has nothing to do with what th author says about his universe btw, Kishi might not know who "asdanmc" is but Kishi could say Naruto is stronger than him without knowing who it is in the first place its a little different from saying things about his characters that he created

actually Joss Whedon was writing for marvel comics while he had a character say that about Buffy on his show

so..he does in fact have the same authority as Kishi over the matter

and he's still absolutely 100% wrong

Good thing nothing contradicts it & everything supports it such as Kishi saying so himself, and Kabuto is the smartest Naruto character
and the author's word which>>>>>>>mine, yours and anyone on this forum and anyoe who isn't Kishi
\
no on panel feats support it..thus he's wrong

I didnt say he can solo the kages I dont think anyone can do that but he wouldnt get destroyed, Im going by hype here its not my fault you think its stupid but Kishis word>yours so when he says Hiruzens stronger just because you think A or 3rd Raikage are teh bestssests characters evar it doesnt change them loosing to him.

he'd be slaughtered

Oh ok well then Ive seen plenty other people use crap logic when it comes to that then lol

I know, i know you're sad the Naruto wank reign of this site that began in 2010 is ending now

Yes, he had rinnegan I don't think anyone with rinnegan would be weak, he split the juubi up with bautsu sozo I thought it was obvious, well Im not getting into this because youre actually claiming Rikudou Senni was weak until we see on screen fact of him doing something so... lol

I'm not saying he's weak I'm saying only a fanboy is gonna use him in a debate until he does something on panel

Not just this, talking about in other threads whne you right out say "you're stupid, dumb' etc etc. just becayse someone wont be 'walked on eggshells too" doesnt mean you have the right to flame them lol its a rule for a reason just because they say something completely retarded doesnt change it. It might be a fact they could be the dumbets person in existence well so what rules are rules

no one is flaming any one..we're stating facts your getting upset

[Nightmare Luffy]

want to allow fanwank and speculation as valid? Take your ftl rocks over to Space battles or movie codec

but not here This is personal attacks Ive said 1000 times I never said the rocks were FTL,you always seem to bring it up when youre loosing in a debate with me though huh I wonder

actually you calling waterluffy stupid when he has infact presented a superior argument..and used common sense and basic reasoning skills would constitute flamingOpinions opinions, why dont mods just judge the BG then because obviously everything you say is fact and you know hte superior argument.

I guess its only flaming when youre wrong. :lol: If youre a good debater you should be able to debate without resorting to insults & saying people are stupid, dumb as a brick etc.
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5887789&postcount=25
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5886899&postcount=54

then your either blind or naive

actually Joss Whedon was writing for marvel comics while he had a character say that about Buffy on his show

so..he does in fact have the same authority as Kishi over the matter

and he's still absolutely 100% wrong Im blind or naive? Im not in denial about the obvious at least, that what Kishi said about his manga goes. Also thats about 2 different universes as I said, if Kishi wrote 2 manga entirely himself and said one charater wa stronger than another it doesnt matter what the precious OBD thought Kishi writes his own mangas

If I asked anyone who read the manga but didnt post here if Hiruzen was the strongest Kage, theyd say "why would I think that" "well Kishi said so" they wouldnt say "Kishi is stupid it doesnt matter what he says only what Hiruzen showed on panel" they would say "oh ok". This is complete common sense anyone who says otherwise is in the same position as you and the only way he can admit his favorite characters wins is by completely disregarding what the authorsays do you know how dumb that sounds?

Going by the DB. I guess Jiraiyas favorite food isnt garlic or he hasnt completed 1,839 missions or isnt 54 years old or birthday isnt November 11 because Kishi is stupid and he doesnt know anything, there was no on screen proof of any of this so we cant assume its true.


\
no on panel feats support it..thus he's wrong



he'd be slaughtered
lol


I know, i know you're sad the Naruto wank reign of this site that began in 2010 is ending now
Yep sure

I'm not saying he's weak I'm saying only a fanboy is gonna use him in a debate until he does something on panelAre you kidding why would I like hiruzen as a character, Im only saying he wins in a fight because hes obviously stronger. Kabuto, the smartest Naruto character said he was superior to the Raikage, & Masashi Kishimoto the creator of Naruto said he was superior to the raikage too. I thin im gonna trust them over what some average joe said on a Naruto forum because there wasnt an "on screen panel" of him kicking ass like Kishi said he can.



no one is flaming any one..we're stating facts your getting upset
maybe not here but these 2 posts made me lol

http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5887789&postcount=25
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5886899&postcount=54

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

This is personal attacks Ive said 1000 times I never said the rocks were FTL,you always seem to bring it up when youre loosing in a debate with me though huh I wonder

Who's loosing a debate lol? Goodness NL I'm doing just fine..in fact I've got a pretty much spotless record of victories here



Opinions opinions, why dont mods just judge the BG then because obviously everything you say is fact and you know hte superior argument.

but Luffy is the one who made the arguments I'm merely pointing out to you..that you are to grow up..or get out


I guess its only flaming when youre wrong. :lol: If youre a good debater you should be able to debate without resorting to insults & saying people are stupid, dumb as a brick etc.
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5887789&postcount=25
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5886899&postcount=54

no quality debater ever shied away from calling a rose bush a rose bush,.or a pile of crap..a pile of crap

Im blind or naive? Im not in denial about the obvious at least, that what Kishi said about his manga goes. Also thats about 2 different universes as I said, if Kishi wrote 2 manga entirely himself and said one charater wa stronger than another it doesnt matter what the precious OBD thought Kishi writes his own mangas

oh wow what a cop out

"duurr hurr IWD's a puppet of the OBD"

hey Waterluffy and Immoral Flame when have I ever parroted another OBD'ers arguments? You guys know me Waterluffy and I have butted heads in the past tell me..have I ever done that?


the rest of your post is just trolling out of frustration

[Nightmare Luffy]

I actually expected a decent response out of my post..the usual response when someone cant respond is "ur just trolling" sigh

particularly this but oh well its trolling
If I asked anyone who read the manga but didnt post here if Hiruzen was the strongest Kage, theyd say "why would I think that" "well Kishi said so" they wouldnt say "Kishi is stupid it doesnt matter what he says only what Hiruzen showed on panel" they would say "oh ok". This is complete common sense anyone who says otherwise is in the same position as you and the only way he can admit his favorite characters wins is by completely disregarding what the authorsays do you know how dumb that sounds?

Going by the DB. I guess Jiraiyas favorite food isnt garlic or he hasnt completed 1,839 missions or isnt 54 years old or birthday isnt November 11 because Kishi is stupid and he doesnt know anything, there was no on screen proof of any of this so we cant assume its true.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

because that's exactly what you're doing

but if you feel like your being singled out I can always go back to the policy that vivi and co adopted regarding you which was close every thread you make..and delete any post you make since..you and your falling rocks and Jupiter sized planet stuff..was so infuriating you put the site at risk when entire forums decided to invade the site..just to purge you and the rest of the narutards here

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Yeah the character thats the smartest in the Narutoverse? I guess we just ignore him. KISHI said he was the strongest Hokage but that's not what makes a difference KABUTO said he was the strongest kage, not hokage, but kage, this was when A was kage.

When did he say Minato was the strongest hokage? Hiruzen beat the first hokage and tobirama @ the same time, and the 1st Hokage beat Kurama and EMS Madara, why are you acting like Kishi said every single kage was the strongest? Hiruzen beat all of them before, & Minatos unrelated because kabuto still said that Hiruzen in his old age is stronger than A even if he were stronger than Hiruzen

Rikudo Sennin is the strongest ninja to ever live? can you tell me what one of his super strong attacks kills Sakura?
This post just insult quite alot of BattleGround members...
Well since you created the universe whatever you say is fact so it would have canon value
He was the strongest kage at that itme, but yes Prime Sarutobi rapes any other kage easy.

Because of his character which isnt accepted here otherwise Naruto would loose to Sakura

see above please

So..you still didnt give me ANYTHING that explains why hype shouldnt be used other than "cause only tards use it", support that please..
So? Kabuto isn't even a leaf villager. It doesn't matter what anyone says without proof it's not true unless it's a definite law. He beat a crappy version of 1st and 2nd who didn't even use more than five attacks put together. Those crappy feats don't mean anything. They weren't even really fighting him, most of the match was them standing and talking, besides when he did kill them they were jogging at him and ran right into his shadow clones arms.

A mother and father will say their kids are always good, but just because they were created by them, doesn't mean a thing.

Chibaku Tensei.

Give me a chapter and a page where it shows PRIME Hiruzen's abilities that match up with A's, cause I can show you crap ton of feats by A that are uncounterable by Hiruzen.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

the Irony is I've argued for Sarutobi being above guys like Sasuke in the past..that I've come under fire from both fanboys and good posters alike for it..yet I'm apparently biased or something

drop the persecution complex NL

[Nightmare Luffy]

So? Kabuto isn't even a leaf villager. It doesn't matter what anyone says without proof it's not true unless it's a definite law. He beat a crappy version of 1st and 2nd who didn't even use more than five attacks put together. Those crappy feats don't mean anything. They weren't even really fighting him, most of the match was them standing and talking, besides when he did kill them they were jogging at him and ran right into his shadow clones arms.

A mother and father will say their kids are always good, but just because they were created by them, doesn't mean a thing.

Chibaku Tensei.

Give me a chapter and a page where it shows PRIME Hiruzen's abilities that match up with A's, cause I can show you crap ton of feats by A that are uncounterable by Hiruzen.Kabutos not a ninja from any important village yet apparently, yet he knows where to find all the DNA and knows the history behind Mu, 2nd Mizukage, 3rd Raikage, Madara(whos from the leaf), etc etc etc etc etc and him fighting Orochimaru Hashirama and Tobirama @ the same time in his old age & winning sure says something especially when he was in complete darkness and still got a hit on them all. Thats going by feats too which is retarded considering Hiruzen is the strongest Kage of all time

Good thing thats a horrible analogy and makes no sense for the situation. Your right there, they dont control every part of their kids actions and know 100% about them like Kishi and the universe he created.

Rikudou Sennin doesnt know Chibaku Tensei I havent seen on screen of it being used thats stupid Sakura beats him


Rikudou Sennins pages that he can match up with Sakura please then Ill give you Prime Hiruzens
because that's exactly what you're doing

but if you feel like your being singled out I can always go back to the policy that vivi and co adopted regarding you which was close every thread you make..and delete any post you make since..you and your falling rocks and Jupiter sized planet stuff..was so infuriating you put the site at risk when entire forums decided to invade the site..just to purge you and the rest of the narutards hereLol

[321zigzag3]

I thought NL was past the FTL falling rocks long time ago regardless if he was joking on that or not.



Also calm down everyone.

Also.

Prime Hiruzen does not exist. How can we debate something on a person who does not exist?

If you are going to use hype, differentiate on what you are saying for the sake of others who do not use hype.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

I thought NL was past the FTL falling rocks long time ago regardless if he was joking on that or not.



Also calm down everyone.

Also.

Prime Hiruzen does not exist. How can we debate something on a person who does not exist?

If you are going to use hype, differentiate on what you are saying for the sake of others who do not use hype.

^Exactly, we've never seen Prime Hiruzen, he's just like bigfoot.

[321zigzag3]

^Exactly, we've never seen Prime Hiruzen, he's just like bigfoot.

Well technically he has existed. Its just we don't know what Prime Hiruzen did.

All we know is that he was very intelligent, had plenty of counters, and very versatile.

But those are broad statements.

[Nightmare Luffy]

If youre not loosing the debate what made you feel the need to delete my post?

If Im trolling, back it up with evidence since last I checked I was debating with j-sun

oh yeah while im here in response to the bigfoot comment, yeah maybe if God said he was real youd have reason to believe him nice analogies guys really

also thanks to who undeleted my post whoever it was

[321zigzag3]

No one deleted your post if I recall what are you talking about.

I never used the Bigfoot analogy anyway so it doesn't matter.

[Nightmare Luffy]

No one deleted your post if I recall what are you talking about.

I never used the Bigfoot analogy anyway so it doesn't matter.
Yeah this post
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888599&postcount=40
Was there now but not a minute ago, your post was on page 2 and after it wa undeleted its on page 3 again so someone erased it

I was talking to Jsun mainly since he said it but hes the one who never got a chance to counter my other post cause it was erased :p

[321zigzag3]

Oh that post.

Anyway.

Like I said, Prime Hiruzen is technically unknown.

All we know is Old Hiruzen but even then he didn't do much.

[Nightmare Luffy]

Well as I said Kishi & Kabuto both said Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage/Kage respectively, I think Ill trust them over some random guy on a Naruto forum who thinks he knows more than Kishi himself(IWD) :p

[321zigzag3]

Well as I said Kishi & Kabuto both said Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage/Kage respectively, I think Ill trust them over some random guy on a Naruto forum who thinks he knows more than Kishi himself(IWD) :p

Hype wise likely.

We have nothing to go by in actuality thats why this debate technically isn't possible.

Hiruzen didn't show much and hardly reflected why he was the strongest.

Orochimaru even implied he was toying with his Edo Zombies against Hiruzen.

[Nightmare Luffy]

Hype wise likely.

We have nothing to go by in actuality thats why this debate technically isn't possible.

Hiruzen didn't show much and hardly reflected why he was the strongest.

Orochimaru even implied he was toying with his Edo Zombies against Hiruzen.Yes it is hype but hype is perfectly valid and the only argument anyones given to me thus far why it ISNT valid is because "thats nonsense"

[321zigzag3]

Yes it is hype but hype is perfectly valid and the only argument anyones given to me thus far why it ISNT valid is because "thats nonsense"

Valid but vague. For the sake of many who don't like using hype and believe many don't. IWD is hardly the representative of that. Just differentiate.

Plus Hiruzen lacks two things.

An actual consistent back up for his hype.
He doesn't exist in Part 2 so he never received the inflationary power boost.

thats why this debate isn't really possible.

[Nightmare Luffy]

Id call the author himself consistent back up, Id call the smartest Naruto character whos done research on hundreds possibly thousands of famous ninja and know most of the Edo Tensei techniques from research & history consistent back up.

If you disregard hype because you think the debate will be more interesting if you pretend it doesnt exist then Im fine with that. This isnt how the debate is going though we dont argue like hype doesnt exist, IWD and those who were arguing against hype openly say just because Kishi says something its not true & is retarded.

[321zigzag3]

Id call the author himself consistent back up, Id call the smartest Naruto character whos done research on hundreds possibly thousands of famous ninja and know most of the Edo Tensei techniques from research & history consistent back up.

If you disregard hype because you think the debate will be more interesting if you pretend it doesnt exist then Im fine with that. This isnt how the debate is going though we dont argue like hype doesnt exist,


Authors can be inconsistent but anyway.

You aren't following my point. The point is hype wise yes but in where people often use feats, hype isn't enough validity to actual conjure a debate.

Basically it would just end up as Hiruzen wins because etc etc etc.
The end. Thats not a debate.


Did I disregard all hype?



IWD and those who were arguing against hype openly say just because Kishi says something its not true & is retarded.


Its because authors are fallible and there are other reasons for people not always believe it plus of course character flawed statements.

Anyway as for the bolded take it up with him if you think he means for all statements.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

If youre not loosing the debate what made you feel the need to delete my post?
s

I only applied the same standards other mods apply to you maybe to remind you I'm going easy on you

[e710]

I don't know why you guys are still "debating" this. By what we have seen Sarutobi should not be able to match A speed at his old age or A's strength. By hype God of Shinobi>fastest ninja alive. Can't we agree on that?

[321zigzag3]

By hype God of Shinobi>fastest ninja alive. Can't we agree on that?

Assuming Kishimoto remembers this.

Then yes.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Assuming Kishimoto remembers this.

Then yes.

you mean like he remember the Sharingan couldn't replicate the byakugan's feats

then it totally did?

[321zigzag3]

you mean like he remember the Sharingan couldn't replicate the byakugan's feats

then it totally did?

When did this occur? Refresh please.

[Lord Jiraiya]

if he was so powerful why was he asking himself where the 4th hokage was when the Fox was making him worry. Then the 4th comes in and a few minutes later the fox is sealed which the 4th could have sealed the Fox in himself and lived on but it was clear he didn't want to live on without his wife.

Feats and Hype wise 4th is the strongest.

Minato and the 3rd was said to be tied at first for the strongest ninja dead. this would include.

Sot6p's
Madara
1st hokage
2sn hokage
all uchiha
all senju
3rd Raikage
mu
2sn mizukage

and many others.

[321zigzag3]

if he was so powerful why was he asking himself where the 4th hokage was when the Fox was making him worry. Then the 4th comes in and a few minutes later the fox is sealed which the 4th could have sealed the Fox in himself and lived on but it was clear he didn't want to live on without his wife.

Feats and Hype wise 4th is the strongest.

Minato and the 3rd was said to be tied at first for the strongest ninja dead. this would include.

Sot6p's
Madara
1st hokage
2sn hokage
all uchiha
all senju
3rd Raikage
mu
2sn mizukage

and many others.

This is another reason why people are very hesitant on hype and debate about the hype too.

Is Kishimoto consistent with the hype for 3rd Hokage?

Not everyone agrees with this view.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

When did this occur? Refresh please.

against Deidera

[Nightmare Luffy]

Authors can be inconsistent but anyway.

You aren't following my point. The point is hype wise yes but in where people often use feats, hype isn't enough validity to actual conjure a debate.

Basically it would just end up as Hiruzen wins because etc etc etc.
The end. Thats not a debate.

Did I disregard all hype?

Its because authors are fallible and there are other reasons for people not always believe it plus of course character flawed statements.

Anyway as for the bolded take it up with him if you think he means for all statements.
This is what Im saying, if people truly said "I dont think hype is good for debates so dont use hype, use feats only & pretend the hype isnt there so its a more interesting debate" then Im fine with that but this isnt what theyre saying.

What the "hype sucks" people are saying is that if you dont see something on screen its not true. Ive asked this multiple times to confirm your suspicions so ya. Jiraiya's birth day is apparently November 11? Haha right until I see an on screen panel of that then theres no way we can trust Kishi. :lol:
if he was so powerful why was he asking himself where the 4th hokage was when the Fox was making him worry. Then the 4th comes in and a few minutes later the fox is sealed which the 4th could have sealed the Fox in himself and lived on but it was clear he didn't want to live on without his wife.

Feats and Hype wise 4th is the strongest.

Minato and the 3rd was said to be tied at first for the strongest ninja dead. this would include.

Sot6p's
Madara
1st hokage
2sn hokage
all uchiha
all senju
3rd Raikage
mu
2sn mizukage

and many others.
Because this was Hiruzen in his old age figure thats pretty common sense

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

This is what Im saying, if people truly said "I dont think hype is good for debates so dont use hype, use feats only & pretend the hype isnt there so its a more interesting debate" then Im fine with that but this isnt what theyre saying.

this is exactly what we're saying

we're also adding that a lack of corroboration on spoken word makes for absolute garbage in evidence

it's very simple on trial for first degree murder: you are found guilty based off psychical evidence..the knowledge of the standards of the court a Lawyers ability to exploit the rules and his skills at arguing his case...only after all that is hearsay valid

it's the same here

[Lemonadez]

Hiruzen win.

1.) Kishi wrote the manga and he type this on kakashi "3rd Hokage is the strongest among kage"

LOL We gotta stick to kishi wrote right...

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Hiruzen win.

1.) Kishi wrote the manga and he type this on kakashi "3rd Hokage is the strongest among kage"

LOL We gotta stick to kishi wrote right...

Kishi sucks

we stick to feats

[Uchiha Sora]

Hiruzen win.

1.) Kishi wrote the manga and he type this on kakashi "3rd Hokage is the strongest among kage"

LOL We gotta stick to kishi wrote right...

In his prime.

Not if it contradicts whats actually shown

[Nightmare Luffy]

this is exactly what we're saying

we're also adding that a lack of corroboration on spoken word makes for absolute garbage in evidence

it's very simple on trial for first degree murder: you are found guilty based off psychical evidence..the knowledge of the standards of the court a Lawyers ability to exploit the rules and his skills at arguing his case...only after all that is hearsay valid

it's the same here
Lol what? dude you were just arguig for the past 4 pages on "what Kishi says isnt true because its not shown on screen & hes stupid" dont lie now & pretend youve been using 'that' kinda feats only.

Thats weird if God came down and said who killed who itd be a different story.

So since you ARE using that kind of feats only you do admit that in a realistic mange situation and not a dumb feats olny situation, Hiruzen would destroy third raikage. Im fine with using feats only if youre for making it an interesting debate but still understand kishi's word is god.

[TheBlackChidori]

Rikudou Sennin doesnt know Chibaku Tensei I havent seen on screen of it being used thats stupid Sakura beats himThis is trolling. You're arguing about Hiruzen having all this hype and being said to be the strongest, than you argue about the Sage not having any on-screen feats so he doesn't matter. Despite every Shinobi saying "He created Ninjutsu, he sealed the Juubi with CT, he split the Bijuu(Which was seen)".

The point is, Hiruzen has done nothing to show that he's the strongest Kage. He wasn't the one to rescue the village from the Kyuubi, Minato was. He wasn't the one to stop Tobi either. He wasn't the one to defeat Orochimaru. Fighting off the 1st and 2nd doesn't mean he is stronger than him. They were giving him a beatdown with little use of their jutsu, and he sealed them all with a technique that has nothing to do with being stronger. For that matter, they didn't use attacks on par with their own current hype. Madara creates gigantic forests 10x the size of the Edo Hashiramas, but we know Hashirama's wood style was better than Madaras. Same for the 2nd Hokage, who didn't use a single S/T jutsu in his fight.

It's like trying to argue that a healthy Kimmimaro is unbeatable. We haven't seen it. Or an Itachi not going blind, we haven't really seen that either.

Fact of the matter is, hype says the 1st Hokage is the strongest Kage. He is the one who defeated Madara, who is currently fighting FIVE Kages at once. Feats says the 4th Hokage is the strongest, being that he is the fastest, took out the Kyuubi, and wounded Tobi. By word of mouth from Iruka, he was the strongest. But this was Iruka, he has never seen another Kage in combat.

Same goes for Kabuto. Kabuto had never seen another Kage fight. There's no way he would have known of the Raikage's speed, or Onoki's ability to carry islands, or any of that.

As it stands, Hiruzen has never shown a Jutsu capable of beating through the Raikage's Armor. Hiruzen's best speed feat is keeping up with Orochimaru, who was being blitzed by a 4-Tailed Naruto. The Raikage on the other hand, has shown the speed to beat a V2 Killer Bee.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Lol what? dude you were just arguig for the past 4 pages on "what Kishi says isnt true because its not shown on screen & hes stupid" dont lie now & pretend youve been using 'that' kinda feats only.

nonsense I've been arguing feats take precedence of all and due Kishi's poor writing especially..we never touched anything else because you were too busy throwing a temper tantrum


Thats weird if God came down and said who killed who itd be a different story.


not if someone else did it

So since you ARE using that kind of feats only you do admit that in a realistic mange situation and not a dumb feats olny situation, Hiruzen would destroy third raikage. Im fine with using feats only if youre for making it an interesting debate but still understand kishi's word is god.

nope I wouldn't because Hype is preposterous in terms of validity

[321zigzag3]

You know lets all agree to disagree for a temporary reprieve, because debating about Prime Hiruzen is beating a dead horse.

When he shows then we can do something about it.

[Nightmare Luffy]

This is trolling. You're arguing about Hiruzen having all this hype and being said to be the strongest, than you argue about the Sage not having any on-screen feats so he doesn't matter. Despite every Shinobi saying "He created Ninjutsu, he sealed the Juubi with CT, he split the Bijuu(Which was seen)". Im not trolling, I'm using their logic. Yeah every shinobi agrees Hiruzen in the strongest kage/hokage too.

The point is, Hiruzen has done nothing to show that he's the strongest Kage. He wasn't the one to rescue the village from the Kyuubi, Minato was. He wasn't the one to stop Tobi either. He wasn't the one to defeat Orochimaru. Fighting off the 1st and 2nd doesn't mean he is stronger than him. They were giving him a beatdown with little use of their jutsu, and he sealed them all with a technique that has nothing to do with being stronger. For that matter, they didn't use attacks on par with their own current hype. Madara creates gigantic forests 10x the size of the Edo Hashiramas, but we know Hashirama's wood style was better than Madaras. Same for the 2nd Hokage, who didn't use a single S/T jutsu in his fight. Most of the stuff you listed was in his old age, and what? They werent giving them a beatdown he had a counter for every single one of their techniques and he even caught Hashirama and Tobirama after splitting his chakra in 1//3 by smelling them in complete darkness he was taking a beating. I honest cant see very many ninja even coming close to beating Orochimaru/1st/2nd Hokages n9ow in the manga. Hiruzen was very impressive from feats & why doesnt the death seal the most powerful & forbidden jutsu not count towarsds strength?

It's like trying to argue that a healthy Kimmimaro is unbeatable. We haven't seen it. Or an Itachi not going blind, we haven't really seen that either. But if Kabuto or Kishi had said Kimimaro was the strongest ninja then I would believe them, they never said that bu Kimimaro was Orochimarus strongest man though iirc

Fact of the matter is, hype says the 1st Hokage is the strongest Kage. He is the one who defeated Madara, who is currently fighting FIVE Kages at once. Feats says the 4th Hokage is the strongest, being that he is the fastest, took out the Kyuubi, and wounded Tobi. By word of mouth from Iruka, he was the strongest. But this was Iruka, he has never seen another Kage in combat.When did Iruka say hiruzen was strongest I dont even remember that, Kishi said a lot, I dont remember the source that Hiruzen was the strongest, Kabuto himself said that. You gys are all missing the point, Minato beat the nine-tails because he was young in his prime, bump him to Hiruzen's age Id like to see how far he goes.Youre right Hashirama got all that hype & Hiruzen was said to be stronger than him so what does that tell you. Madaras fighting 5 kages at once and lost to Hashiram with the nine tails.

Same goes for Kabuto. Kabuto had never seen another Kage fight. There's no way he would have known of the Raikage's speed, or Onoki's ability to carry islands, or any of that. What? How would you ever know this? What he DOES know is just about every single of his edo tenseis techniques, where to find their DNA and all their research, he is def the most intelligent shinobi out there & Im pretty sure he knows whos the strongest Kage.

As it stands, Hiruzen has never shown a Jutsu capable of beating through the Raikage's Armor. Hiruzen's best speed feat is keeping up with Orochimaru, who was being blitzed by a 4-Tailed Naruto. The Raikage on the other hand, has shown the speed to beat a V2 Killer Bee.Yeah just like we should assume someone like RS can just backhand raikage and he dies 500 times in a row, but IWD said since we cant trust hype rikudou sennin looses to sakura :lol:

also TBC Ive been curious for awhile but whats your opinion on these posts? you did make that thread about flaming/badnning awhile ago so im wondering
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5887030&postcount=16
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888040&postcount=37
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888198&postcount=42
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888493&postcount=45
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888607&postcount=47
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888812&postcount=52
nonsense I've been arguing feats take precedence of all and due Kishi's poor writing especially..we never touched anything else because you were too busy throwing a temper tantrum



not if someone else did it


nope I wouldn't because Hype is preposterous in terms of validity
See there you go stop contradicting yourself
"ive been saying not to use hype just because it makes the debate more interesting the whole time "
so wait that means you do think its accepted if we were to accept i?
"lol nope i still think its stupid and orochimarus birthday isnt october 27 until i see a panel of it because kishi is dumb"

[TheBlackChidori]

Im not trolling, I'm using their logic. Yeah every shinobi agrees Hiruzen in the strongest kage/hokage too.

Most of the stuff you listed was in his old age, and what? They werent giving them a beatdown he had a counter for every single one of their techniques and he even caught Hashirama and Tobirama after splitting his chakra in 1//3 by smelling them in complete darkness he was taking a beating. I honest cant see very many ninja even coming close to beating Orochimaru/1st/2nd Hokages n9ow in the manga. Hiruzen was very impressive from feats & why doesnt the death seal the most powerful & forbidden jutsu not count towarsds strength?

But if Kabuto or Kishi had said Kimimaro was the strongest ninja then I would believe them, they never said that bu Kimimaro was Orochimarus strongest man though iirc

When did Iruka say hiruzen was strongest I dont even remember that, Kishi said a lot, I dont remember the source that Hiruzen was the strongest, Kabuto himself said that. You gys are all missing the point, Minato beat the nine-tails because he was young in his prime, bump him to Hiruzen's age Id like to see how far he goes.Youre right Hashirama got all that hype & Hiruzen was said to be stronger than him so what does that tell you. Madaras fighting 5 kages at once and lost to Hashiram with the nine tails.

What? How would you ever know this? What he DOES know is just about every single of his edo tenseis techniques, where to find their DNA and all their research, he is def the most intelligent shinobi out there & Im pretty sure he knows whos the strongest Kage.

Well, there's several things wrong with your argument.

For one, powerscaling. At the end of Dragonball, Piccolo was definitely the strongest villain. However at the end of the Saiyan Saga, there were 3 villains that became stronger. Regardless of Kabuto making that statement, he made that statement before any of the other Kage's even truly existed.

Akira Toriyama would say "Frieza is the strongest in the universe." Yet, Majin Buu was 1000x times stronger. But the thing is, Majin Buu didn't come into the Author's mind until later in the series, therefore it has no merit to say "Well Akira said Frieza was the strongest in the universe so he beats Majin Buu."

Think about it; Hiruzen was the only Kage with any story or feats when Kabuto made that statement. The 4th was a legend, the 1st and 2nd were figureheads, and Madara didn't even exist yet. The main villain was Orochimaru, so why not hype the leader of the village up against the so-called strongest villain, who turned out to be not strong at all? Sasuke trolled him, Tsunade beat him senseless, and Itachi sealed him while using his best summoning.

It's like with Danzo. Danzo was clearly stronger than anyone in Part 1. Yet he didn't exist. He had nothing to do with the attack on Konoha, wasn't even thought of during the Kyuubi attack, or even the original story of the Uchiha massacre. This was all found out later. These were also things even Kabuto didn't know about. Kabuto made that statement when the reader, the character, and the author, all had a pre-informed minimal idea of what the characters would someday turn into.

Iruka said that when he was teaching Konohamaru's class about the Hokage monument.

But we can say that "Sure, Kabuto said Hiruzen was stronger." It doesn't matter because LATER we see that Hashirama was clearly stronger. He was able to fight Madara and the Kyuubi simultaneously and even take control of the Kyuubi. Hiruzen on the other hand, could not even fight off the Kyuubi, only drive it out of the village with help. Those are both feats, you see. Feats that clearly place Hashirama and Minato above Hiruzen.

If this was a debate in Part 1, we could say yes, Hiruzen is the strongest. With the knowledge, hype, and feats we have, that's easy to say. Problem is, that's when his hype and feats started. Enter part 2 and another 300 chapters in the manga, and many characters have appeared to show that they were stronger.

The death seal is definitely strong, but apparently only strong enough that he could manage to seal Orochimaru's arms. Not to mention, it kills the user afterwards. I'd say Shisui's eye is a much stronger Jutsu.

Either way, there are no feats of Prime Hiruzen's strength. The difference between him and Rikudou's hype is that several Shinobi on several occasions have actually came out and said "Rikudou Sennin did THIS!" No one has ever mentioned what Hiruzen actually did, only that he was stronger when he was young. That is hardly anything we can go by. Until Kishimoto gives Hiruzen some flashback feats, his hype died in Part 1.

also TBC Ive been curious for awhile but whats your opinion on these posts? you did make that thread about flaming/badnning awhile ago so im wondering
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5887030&postcount=16
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888040&postcount=37
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888198&postcount=42
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888493&postcount=45
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888607&postcount=47
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5888812&postcount=52


I haven't seen that topic, not to mention I haven't really been "Modding" because real life calls. I'll check it out, however next time PM this stuff or report it rather than bringing it to a topic.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Hiruzen win.

1.) Kishi wrote the manga and he type this on kakashi "3rd Hokage is the strongest among kage"

LOL We gotta stick to kishi wrote right...

Pretty sure he's only the strongest of the Hokage.

[Uchiha Sora]

Pretty sure he's only the strongest of the Hokage.
Kabuto said something about Hiruzen being the strongest KAGE IIRC. Even in his old age. But like TBC said, it doesn't matter what was said back then, since Kishi probably hhadn't completed the other Kage's characters at the time.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Yeah because of his knowledge of jutsu. He's not very impressive tbh.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I haven't seen that topic, not to mention I haven't really been "Modding" because real life calls. I'll check it out, however next time PM this stuff or report it rather than bringing it to a topic.\

goodness gracious is he still pretending he actually cares about that? pretty sure that was passive and actually polite compared to some of my other comments in the past. I'm not going to nor ever have held back my punches when it came to blatant trolls or blatant trolling.. I don't know why he magically expected me to do so now especially when saving this place from wank was one of my original promises to the memberbase

and NL..really man your starting to sound like Herokings

[Nightmare Luffy]

Well, there's several things wrong with your argument.

For one, powerscaling. At the end of Dragonball, Piccolo was definitely the strongest villain. However at the end of the Saiyan Saga, there were 3 villains that became stronger. Regardless of Kabuto making that statement, he made that statement before any of the other Kage's even truly existed. We can take that into account when Hiruzen was considered the stronger shinobi & Kishi still will stay consistent he hasnt contradicted himself anywhere.

Akira Toriyama would say "Frieza is the strongest in the universe." Yet, Majin Buu was 1000x times stronger. But the thing is, Majin Buu didn't come into the Author's mind until later in the series, therefore it has no merit to say "Well Akira said Frieza was the strongest in the universe so he beats Majin Buu."This was before it actually happened, Akira would say "Frieza was the strongest till Majin Buu came along"

Think about it; Hiruzen was the only Kage with any story or feats when Kabuto made that statement. The 4th was a legend, the 1st and 2nd were figureheads, and Madara didn't even exist yet. The main villain was Orochimaru, so why not hype the leader of the village up against the so-called strongest villain, who turned out to be not strong at all? Sasuke trolled him, Tsunade beat him senseless, and Itachi sealed him while using his best summoning. Youre right but as I said above Majin buu really wasnt revealed instory yet. Cell was revealed later on & he gre wup from the future, nobody ever had knowledge of these. In-verse where the characters in-verse not even Kishi, said hiruzen was the strongest of all the kages and the kages were revealed and confirm existed as A was kage at the time(even if Kishi or us didn't know who they were), they still know & he still is especially when no one contradicts it even when Raikage wasnt revealed yet.

It's like with Danzo. Danzo was clearly stronger than anyone in Part 1. Yet he didn't exist. He had nothing to do with the attack on Konoha, wasn't even thought of during the Kyuubi attack, or even the original story of the Uchiha massacre. This was all found out later. These were also things even Kabuto didn't know about. Kabuto made that statement when the reader, the character, and the author, all had a pre-informed minimal idea of what the characters would someday turn into.Yes he did exist he just wasnt revealed or thought up by kishi, Danzo doesnt contradict anything though.

Iruka said that when he was teaching Konohamaru's class about the Hokage monument. Pretty sure Iruka would know his stuff but thats more support then

But we can say that "Sure, Kabuto said Hiruzen was stronger." It doesn't matter because LATER we see that Hashirama was clearly stronger. He was able to fight Madara and the Kyuubi simultaneously and even take control of the Kyuubi. Hiruzen on the other hand, could not even fight off the Kyuubi, only drive it out of the village with help. Those are both feats, you see. Feats that clearly place Hashirama and Minato above Hiruzen.I see a 30 som eyear old Minato and I see a young Hahsirama. I see a 60+year old Hiruzen. So I wonder

If this was a debate in Part 1, we could say yes, Hiruzen is the strongest. With the knowledge, hype, and feats we have, that's easy to say. Problem is, that's when his hype and feats started. Enter part 2 and another 300 chapters in the manga, and many characters have appeared to show that they were stronger. but those character have always exist they were just never revealed to us. Nothing contradicts his strength @ all just because characters that may seem stronger were revealed to you. Kabuto knew who they were and Kishi said hes strongest, if he contradicts himself then he retconed the past manga but sadly that hasnt happened yet & hes been perfecly consistent Hiruzens always been strongest.

The death seal is definitely strong, but apparently only strong enough that he could manage to seal Orochimaru's arms. Not to mention, it kills the user afterwards. I'd say Shisui's eye is a much stronger Jutsu. Yep old exhausted Hiruzen after using like 10 top tiered jutsu & splitting in chakra into 1/3 can seal 2 Edo Tensei and Orochimaru's arms. Minato @ full health and young healthy prime can seal 50% of the kyubi its a fair tradeoff.

Either way, there are no feats of Prime Hiruzen's strength. The difference between him and Rikudou's hype is that several Shinobi on several occasions have actually came out and said "Rikudou Sennin did THIS!" No one has ever mentioned what Hiruzen actually did, only that he was stronger when he was young. That is hardly anything we can go by. Until Kishimoto gives Hiruzen some flashback feats, his hype died in Part 1. Yep again Im cool with disregarding hype to make debates more fun but not in the way everyone else seems to think hype is crap because Kishi the author of the manga isnt right lol.



I haven't seen that topic, not to mention I haven't really been "Modding" because real life calls. I'll check it out, however next time PM this stuff or report it rather than bringing it to a topic.Ok thanks. Well you were already here & it was in the thread, I posted on-topic in that post already so I figured Id post that while were here.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

just so we're all clear on this matter: if you think I'm going to let up on you or any one who wanks and embellishes in this section or does not debate right..you're dead wrong I wont stop and I wont stop encouraging others to go for the jugular on this matter

every one who took over the BG's had a soft touch with the exception of TBC in our darkest hour...I'm not them - this is gonna become the ultimate meritocracy where you're only value is now measured by your last arguments and how well you argued them and how many undesirables and trolls you've either been able to save or if failing that expose and neutralize.

[waterluffyG2]

Lol no one cares what the creator of the manga says. Its official, you guys know more than the author. I call BS but okIf we beleived everything the author says, ONLY FIVE SECONDS, guns>ninjas, haku is lightspeed, and only an urchia can beat an urchia applies. Which would be stupid.

Just because it might be a fact I'm stupid doesnt mean someone needs to say it, I quoted the rules lol. pretty ridiculous, alright waterluffy youre stupid and dumb as a brick obviously and I can say that even tho the rules directly contradict it. IWD said it hes a mod so that means I can!:D
If you actually think that, the fact that you go out and say it doesn't really bother me. (Unless you said "go kill yourself" or something like that.)



If he said that, the houses would be made of jelly so yes I would. If Kishi said the houses in his universe were jelly he's not talking to the characters in Naruto they already know that. God tals to his other God friends who created their OWN universes & said "oh yeah NL and waterluffys universe their houses are made of jello" well they really are we're just fictional, he created us anything he says goes. Its pretty common sense the only reason its not common sense in your guys eyes is because it doesnt support you arguments here

Even against massive evidence in the contary, e.g. feeling walls, watching construction, car crashes not destroying city blocks, speed cameras, moon landings, and looking through a telescope?


Good thing nothing contradicts it & everything supports it such as Kishi saying so himself, and Kabuto is the smartest Naruto character
and the author's word which>>>>>>>mine, yours and anyone on this forum and anyoe who isn't Kishi

feats>yours, mine, and kishi's words
actually you calling waterluffy stupid when he has infact presented a superior argument..and used common sense and basic reasoning skills would constitute flamingI actually think it doesn't matter, especially as it is so mild, and opinions are opinions.
I know, i know you're sad the Naruto wank reign of this site that began in 2010 is ending now
This is going to be an interesting transition period.
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5887789&postcount=25
http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5886899&postcount=54

I can't believe you are defending lemon. He is either:
a) A troll
Should be banned, so IWD is going easy on him.
b)A moron
Even a goat would after seeing the feats of urchias and superman, know which one to be more afraid of. Crab- level intellect.
c)A drunk
For some reason he must have drunk a litre of pure ethanol each time before posting. Stop doing that lemon, it is bad for you.

This much is obvious and beleiving otherwise would be naiive.
Who's loosing a debate lol? Goodness NL I'm doing just fine..in fact I've got a pretty much spotless record of victories here
I'd be careful about that. Anyone can claim they have a spotless record if they are stubbon enough. SuperVegetto, for example, claims he has never lost a debate with you, which I doubt very much.

"duurr hurr IWD's a puppet of the OBD"

hey Waterluffy and Immoral Flame when have I ever parroted another OBD'ers arguments? You guys know me Waterluffy and I have butted heads in the past tell me..have I ever done that?
I certainly don't remember anything like that. You always bring something new to the table when debating, in my expeirience.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I actually think it doesn't matter, especially as it is so mild, and opinions are opinions.

of course I was just giving an in context example.

]This is going to be an interesting transition period.


to be fair allot of the ground work was laid last year by those of us who came from outside plus a few shockingly bright and competent lights from this site some of which don't post any more and are missed


I'd be careful about that. Anyone can claim they have a spotless record if they are stubbon enough. SuperVegetto, for example, claims he has never lost a debate with you, which I doubt very much. .

well to be fair if you asked me "compile a list of posters who have kicked your ass up and down a vs debate forum" I have no problem doing that..it's not bruise to my ego

if SV was asked that..we know how'd it go

TBC and DL have come the closest on this site to doing that

[Nightmare Luffy]

If we beleived everything the author says, ONLY FIVE SECONDS, guns>ninjas, haku is lightspeed, and only an urchia can beat an urchia applies. Which would be stupid. Lol nice job misunderstanding the manga. Just cause Itachi says only someone with sharingan can beat him he doesnt mean it literally, i love how this is the thing everyone uses whentrying to prove things like that wrong. I dont see what he contradicted in the rest of that paragraph other than you might think its stupid cause you dont like it. Well it doesnt mean its not true because you think it's stupid and dont like it.
If you actually think that, the fact that you go out and say it doesn't really bother me. (Unless you said "go kill yourself" or something like that.)

Its still against the rules so your opinion on it doesnt matter I post porn and direct it at you just cause you dont mind its still against the rulesEven against massive evidence in the contary, e.g. feeling walls, watching construction, car crashes not destroying city blocks, speed cameras, moon landings, and looking through a telescope?Yep, also considering were part of the verse and know the contents wherein . if it was something like that even its obvious god's right no matter what and somethin gthat silly is actually debatable. Something like what Kishi says about his own manga like Hiruzen being the strongest kage is totally understandable. Aynone who really uses that logic and thinks what the creator of the damn manga says isnt true no matter what is just stupid.


feats>yours, mine, and kishi's words
I actually think it doesn't matter, especially as it is so mild, and opinions are opinions.lol

This is going to be an interesting transition period.

I can't believe you are defending lemon. He is either:
a) A troll
Should be banned, so IWD is going easy on him.
b)A moron
Even a goat would after seeing the feats of urchias and superman, know which one to be more afraid of. Crab- level intellect.
c)A drunk
For some reason he must have drunk a litre of pure ethanol each time before posting. Stop doing that lemon, it is bad for you.
This much is obvious and beleiving otherwise would be naiive.Im not defending him? I dont even know who it is I just thought someone flaming was BS since its against the rules

[TheBlackChidori]

Just cause Itachi says only someone with sharingan can beat him he doesnt mean it literally,


DING DING THERE IT IS!!!

Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's true!

[321zigzag3]

I propose we lock this thread and NL and IWD can settle this on PM.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

lol

this is going to become a proper vs debate section: Ergo that's how it is going to be from now on..if you have a problem with that.. either don't post or get ready to loose loads and loads of arguments as everyone who adjusts takes a piece out of your ass



Im not defending him? I dont even know who it is I just thought someone flaming was BS since its against the rules

Let's drop the pretense here..you've gone out of your way to try and have me demoderated you little twit..not even friggen Giants/Yanks..did that (to my knowledge at least)

that says something about the kind of debater you are..

DING DING THERE IT IS!!!

Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's true!

hey..remember when Freiza said he was the greatest fighter in the universe?

Obviously we must not have seen prime freiza

[321zigzag3]

Cyborg Frieza was immediately killed by Future Trunks anyway.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Cyborg Frieza was immediately killed by Future Trunks anyway.

and poor Saru has been made to look like a joke even by the hokage he beat up

seriously in that one flash back Hashirama showed enough feats to kick his ass in a PIS free rematch

[321zigzag3]

Which is why I say this thread be locked. Prime Hiruzen has yet to show anything.

Yes I know old man Sarutobi some how drove Kyuubi back but its unknown.

[Nightmare Luffy]

DING DING THERE IT IS!!!

Just because a character says something doesn't mean it's true!
Character statements=/=what Kishi says himself especially if theyre obviously not talkign literal. Pretty sure Kabuto saying Hiruzen is the strongest kage is a little bit different than Itahci saying something only an idiot would believe its true. Yep cause Itachi beats Jesus
this is going to become a proper vs debate section: Ergo that's how it is going to be from now on..if you have a problem with that.. either don't post or get ready to loose loads and loads of arguments as everyone who adjusts takes a piece out of your ass

Let's drop the pretense here..you've gone out of your way to try and have me demoderated you little twit..not even friggen Giants/Yanks..did that (to my knowledge at least)

that says something about the kind of debater you are..

hey..remember when Freiza said he was the greatest fighter in the universe?

Obviously we must not have seen prime freiza
De moderated are you serious? Then youre just mad against me lol I did nothing like that I just pointed out you flaming as I said its BS. Serious though IWD whered you come to tha tconclusion?

Frieza is just an arrogant moron and we cant trust him like we can trust the author if the manga & the smartest Naruto character. kabutos not talking about himself like Frieza or Itachi and Kishi sure the hell aint bound by character statements sinc he's God and whatever he says is right.

Again gonna trust God over some average joe on a debate forum over who's right lol. "God is stupid even though he created Hiruzen and said hes strongest, its obviously not true cause he's stupid because I say so" I wonder who to believe hmmmmmmmmmm

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Character statements=/=what Kishi says himself especially if theyre obviously not talkign literal. Pretty sure Kabuto saying Hiruzen is the strongest kage is a little bit different than Itahci saying something only an idiot would believe its true. Yep cause Itachi beats Jesus

and yet the first hokage has better feats than he does

De moderated are you serious? Then youre just mad against me lol I did nothing like that I just pointed out you flaming as I said its BS. Serious though IWD whered you come to tha tconclusion?

so we're gonna keep playing pretend? okay then

Frieza is just an arrogant moron and we cant trust him like we can trust the author if the manga & the smartest Naruto character. kabutos not talking about himself like Frieza or Itachi and Kishi sure the hell aint bound by character statements sinc he's God and whatever he says is right.


Authors make mistakes all the time and write inconsistently silly and terrible writers are even worse


Again gonna trust God over some average joe on a debate forum over who's right lol. "God is stupid even though he created Hiruzen and said hes strongest, its obviously not true cause he's stupid because I say so" I wonder who to believe hmmmmmmmmmm

Do you seriously think I'm going to permit you to debate this way? Any of you? That I'm going to allow the continued wank and amateur debating here?

this is my yard now NL it maybe TBC's house but I'm the one protecting it

[e710]

The reason this confusion is happening is because Hiruzen was in the serious before everyone went "super sayin". If Hiruzen some how shows up now he would be powerful then his previous state because the power-scaling has gone up. I'm not saying its bad writing or anything its just what happens to every magna or comic book that has to do with fighting.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

The reason this confusion is happening is because Hiruzen was in the serious before everyone went "super sayin". If Hiruzen some how shows up now he would be powerful then his previous state because the power-scaling has gone up. I'm not saying its bad writing or anything its just what happens to every magna or comic book that has to do with fighting.

that's probably true too

[Wooster]

Which is why I say this thread be locked. Prime Hiruzen has yet to show anything.

Yes I know old man Sarutobi some how drove Kyuubi back but its unknown.
Agreed. time for this thread to take a nap.

Just for the record A wins against anyone in a Tables, Ladders and Chairs match. Yes, even against the "God of Shinobi"