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GucciBandana
09-11-2011, 07:25 PM
Ranking is based on feats, hype, and databook, I excluded 5 characters on purpose: Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Tobi w/Rinnegan and Orochi-Kabuto, also characters that appeared but never had any feats or little hype can be only included in Honourable Mentions. In the same Tier, characters listed higher are preferably stronger than the characters listed lower, in my opinion. all the characters are judged based on their prime, and it does not depend on if one character can beat another one or not, rather based on their overall skill levels.. No preparation allowed(Konan's 6 billion explosive tag, Shikamaru's trap and others), but tools the character uses can be carried(Minato's Haraishin Kunai, some of Konan's explosive tags, Kinkaku/Ginkaku's treasure tool, Sasori's puppets, Swordsman's sword, and others), but number is limited.

God Tier

Sage of Six Path

Honourable Mentions: 2 of the Sage's son

Super Kage Tier

Sarutobi Hiruzen
Senju Hashirama
Uchiha Madara(Maskless)
Senju Tobirama
Uchiha Itachi
Nagato

Honourable Mentions: Sarutobi Sasuke, Uchiha Izuna, Chikamatsu Monzaemon

Strong Kage Tier

Hanzo
Shimura Danzo
Mu
2nd Mizekage
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Namikaze Minato
3rd Raikage
Killer B
Kinkaku
A
Onoki
Gaara

Honourable Mentions: Uchiha Shisui, Hatake Sakumo

Mid Kage Tier

Sasori
Chiyo
Hatake Kakashi
Mifune
Ginkaku
Tsunade
Terumi Mei

Honourable Mentions: Yagura, Uzumaki Mito, 3rd Kazekage

Weak Kage/Elite Jounin Tier

Kakuzu
Kimimaro
Kitsuchi
Hoshigaki Kisame
Darui
Deidara
4th Kazekage

Honourable Mentions: Ebizo, Sasori's parents, Mitokado Homura, Utatane Koharu, Killer Bee's cousin, Yahiko

Strong Jounin Tier

Ao
Gai
Hyuga Hiashi
Akimichi Choji
Dodai
Akatsuchi
Hidan
Monochi Zabuza
Sarutobi Asuma
Konan

Honourable Mentions: Kato Dan, Hozuki Mangetsu, Hyuga Hizashi, Aburame Shikuro, Akimichi Torifu, Uchiha Kagami, all the Edo Jinchiruiki expect for Yagura

Average Jounin Tier

Baki
Aburame Shibi
Nara Shikaku
Yamanaka Inoichi
C
Yamato(Tenzo)
Akimichi Choza
Kurotsuchi
Torune
Fu
Chojuro
Kankuro
Samui
Sai
Yuhi Kurenai
Omoi
Hōzuki Suigetsu
Hyuga Neji
Motoi

Honourable Mentions: Shin, Suikazan Fuguki, Akebino Jinin, Kuriarare Kushimaru, Munashi Jinpachi, Ringo Ameyuri, Chiriku

Weak Jounin/Strong Special Jounin Tier

Jugo
Temari
Shizune
Rock Lee
Nara Shikamaru
Aburame Shino
Shiranui Genma
Morino Ibiki
Inuzuka Tsume
Mitarash Anko
Atsui
Karui
Mabui

Honourable Mentions: Gari, Pakura, Toroi, Chukichi

Weak Special Jounin/Strong Chuunin Tier

Gekko Hayate
Namiashi Raido
Yamashiro Aoba
Inuzuka Kiba
Kidomaru
Sakon/Ukon
Umino Iruka
Inuzuka Hana
Tayuya
Haku
Hagane Kotetsu
Kamizuki Izumo
Hyuga Hanabi
Yamanaka Ino
Hyuga Hinata
Tenten(with regular weapon)
Jirobo
Sarutobi Konohamaru

Honourable Mentions: many members with name among the Allied Shinobi Force(Maki, Yamanaka Santa, Nara Ensui, Tenga, Ittan, Hyuga Hoteto, Hyuga Ko, Hyuga Tokuma, Zaji, Aburame Muta, Ranka, Kiri, and others)

Average Chuunin Tier

Karin
Ebisu
Uchiha Obito
Most of the fodders during Shinobi war

NOT FINISHED

Super Sanin 3
09-11-2011, 07:32 PM
I was going to sleep soon so i can't review most of the points yet, but i wana just copy and paste what i said about Nagato vs Itachi in general
I disagree that Itachi is better than Nagato, he's smarter and has better insight, but Nagato's powers are just too hax, he makes pretty much all ninjutsu useless, can spam summons like no tomorrow who have versatile abilities, Asura path's many robotic gadgets, the ability to rip souls out, use ST and CT, both EXTREMELY deadly, and he can use the 6 paths jutsu, which he can literally be safe from far away and not get hurt since they don't know his secret, and they have linked vision for excellent teamwork, the enemy will think they got rid of him, but he's secretly safe as can be, and he can form another 6 paths. There's also all his other abilities like the ability to change the weather, put 30% of a person's chakra into a body, reviving people who died early enough, and who knows what else
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GucciBandana
09-11-2011, 07:54 PM
I was going to sleep soon so i can't review most of the points yet, but i wana just copy and paste what i said about Nagato vs Itachi in general
I disagree that Itachi is better than Nagato, he's smarter and has better insight, but Nagato's powers are just too hax, he makes pretty much all ninjutsu useless, can spam summons like no tomorrow who have versatile abilities, Asura path's many robotic gadgets, the ability to rip souls out, use ST and CT, both EXTREMELY deadly, and he can use the 6 paths jutsu, which he can literally be safe from far away and not get hurt since they don't know his secret, and they have linked vision for excellent teamwork, the enemy will think they got rid of him, but he's secretly safe as can be, and he can form another 6 paths. There's also all his other abilities like the ability to change the weather, put 30% of a person's chakra into a body, reviving people who died early enough, and who knows what else
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Nagato vs Itachi is a huge argument that's going on everywhere in every country, lol. It is very hard to justify which one is stronger, they are very close, I agree that Nagato has more unique power than Itachi, and a larger chakra reserve, what you said are right, but some parts are over stated. his summonings are strong, but we've seen Amaterasu and Kunais taking them out, human path's soul ripping skills can be deadly, but its also slow against strong opponents and can be easily countered, just an example can be used during a fight between Itachi and Nagato, if Nagato tried to absorb the soul of Itachi but instead of grabbing the real Itachi, he grabs the explosive clone, it is very dangerous for Nagato's real body. ST has a cool down time, and CT has a weakness that was saw through by Itachi, however it is unknown if Itachi can counter it by himself, and there's no way to justify it. Asura path is mainly used for physical attacks, I don't see it as a huge threat, and the ability to absorb jutsu isn't automatic, he has to realize there's something that needs to be absorbed to activate it, therefore hitting him with a jutsu before Nagato can react to it is a way of countering it. shared vision is very helpful too, but Itachi knows how to counter it.

put it this way, Nagato kept the secrets of Rinnegan very well, if it is the first time fighting Rinnegan, it will be very difficult, more difficult than fighting Itachi most likely, but once both Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan's ability is revealed, Itachi might be more troublesome, because of his battle intelligence and great usage of very basic skills, and don't forget the jutsus Itachi has with his Mangekyou are very deadly as well.

I purely put Itachi ahead of Nagato because I believe his performance was slightly better, at least slightly more impressive than Nagato's, during their battle after Edo Tensei, it was flawless.

Super Sanin 3
09-11-2011, 08:04 PM
^If i could put them equal i would X_X
I agree with you for the most part, but keep in mind that the cerberus summon took a FRS and lived, and the chameleon summon can keep him invisible, along with the bird for those annoying flying opponents, plus Gedo Mazo, which is costly however
Not to downplay Itachi however: he IS I admit and very powerful indeed, Tsuk. may or may not work on Nagato, due to the rinnegan meant to beat the sharingan and all, but for the most part if works on almost all opponents and without knowledge, most people are effed, amaterasu, in pokemon terms, is super effective versus boss summons, it pretty much takes down bijuu. Itachi's susano'o has yata mirror, hyped to block any attack, the sword which is epic by itself, and YM, which by hype should do loads of damage IIRC. While for Nagato CT is almost impossible to escape, and he can send his 6 paths in without having any real danger. In the end Itachi has Talk no Jutsu to degrade everybody >=)

GucciBandana
09-11-2011, 08:35 PM
^If i could put them equal i would X_X
I agree with you for the most part, but keep in mind that the cerberus summon took a FRS and lived, and the chameleon summon can keep him invisible, along with the bird for those annoying flying opponents, plus Gedo Mazo, which is costly however
Not to downplay Itachi however: he IS I admit and very powerful indeed, Tsuk. may or may not work on Nagato, due to the rinnegan meant to beat the sharingan and all, but for the most part if works on almost all opponents and without knowledge, most people are effed, amaterasu, in pokemon terms, is super effective versus boss summons, it pretty much takes down bijuu. Itachi's susano'o has yata mirror, hyped to block any attack, the sword which is epic by itself, and YM, which by hype should do loads of damage IIRC. While for Nagato CT is almost impossible to escape, and he can send his 6 paths in without having any real danger. In the end Itachi has Talk no Jutsu to degrade everybody >=)

yes that dog summon took a FRS, not sure how he died, either from Amaterasu or the fact Nagato is knocked out. Invisible Summon can be annoying, but I don't see those large summonings will cause too much trouble for someone Itachi's level, Sasuke's battle with Baku, Itachi taking out Nagato's summoning showed it. in fact the most useful summon IMO is Enma, two sennin toads and Hydra(if this counts as a summoning).

I always thought Itachi's Tsukuyomi will be effective against Nagato, but he never used it, so I can't really say much here.
CT is very powerful, has similar effect as Baku, but I bet it's a lot harder to destroy, it is unknown if Itachi can destroy it or not, long range attack, Amaterasu and Susanoo all might work on it, but no way to verify.

Pain is another version of Nagato, hard to say which one is stronger, Pain is a lot safer, Nagato's jutsus are stronger.

lol Itachi's Talk no jutsu might be the best in the manga, even worked on Naruto, and didn't get effected by Madara's Talk no jutsu.

in the end, I would put them as equal, it's just I listed the characters one by one, so I had to put one before another one, and I chose Itachi :P

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 07:40 AM
additions: Yahiko to Weak Kage/Elite Jounin Tier's honourable mentions, Motoi to the bottom of Average Jounin Tier.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 08:23 AM
seriously thinking putting 3rd Raikage behind Mu, "only one complete fighting the tailed beast 1 on 1" vs "can't be kill a by someone outside of a jinton user.", invincible armor vs completely invisible, super durability vs flying, finger jutsu vs Jinton, Mu still has super sensing power, I don't see how 3rd Raikge is more impressive actually, Mu was fighting 2 Average-Strong level Kages and gained upper hand.

Flying Fortress Skyfire
09-12-2011, 11:17 AM
Super Kage Tier

Sarutobi Hiruzen

Insta-fail. I assume the rest of the list equally inferior.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 11:45 AM
Insta-fail. I assume the rest of the list equally inferior.

Hizuren is stated to be the strongest Hokage of all time, and strongest out of 5 Kages, never surpassed by Danzo in any point of his life, really has no opponents in the ninja world, indicated in the databook, saying he's most desired opponent being a grown up Konohamaru, if he drops, Hashirama drops with him, Danzo drops with him, so does every other Kage, Hashirama will cause Madara and Tobirama to drop, and everyone else drops, no other way of putting it without going against Kishi's statement.

Flying Fortress Skyfire
09-12-2011, 12:47 PM
Heard it all before. It was horse piss then and it's horse piss now.

Minato was also stated to be the strongest. Bit of a contradiction there. Danzo having never surpassed him is meaningless because Danzo is not the strongest person in the series. The databook's been horse manure since day 1. Amaterasu > sun? "Ha!" I say, "Ha!"

Saying his most desired opponent is a grownup Konohamaru is equally meaningless, because all it proves is that he's sentimental, not that there's no one stronger than him.

Lowering his standing in no way reduces the standing of anyone on that list, which I have just read and confirmed my earlier suspicions of inferiority.

It's easy to go against Kishi's statements because he has no idea what he's doing.

J-Man
09-12-2011, 12:51 PM
The list isn't perfect of course and Hiruzen shouldnt be that high but he deserves credit. I didn't think "YOU FAIL" when I saw it I thought more "Wow pretty good to put Hiruzen up there"

And Skyfire I must ask, similes are supposed to be taken literally?

Flying Fortress Skyfire
09-12-2011, 12:53 PM
If you like.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 12:57 PM
Heard it all before. It was horse piss then and it's horse piss now.

Minato was also stated to be the strongest. Bit of a contradiction there. Danzo having never surpassed him is meaningless because Danzo is not the strongest person in the series. The databook's been horse manure since day 1. Amaterasu > sun? "Ha!" I say, "Ha!"

Saying his most desired opponent is a grownup Konohamaru is equally meaningless, because all it proves is that he's sentimental, not that there's no one stronger than him.

Lowering his standing in no way reduces the standing of anyone on that list, which I have just read and confirmed my earlier suspicions of inferiority.

It's easy to go against Kishi's statements because he has no idea what he's doing.

Minato was never stated to be the strongest, he was said to be the most talented a few times.

Danzo might not be the strongest but he's very strong, 2nd person to acquire the power of Senju and Uchiha clan together after Madara.

the databook gives a lot of informations, it is written by the same author, and Amaterasu might be a translation problem and it is only a description, since "Amaterasu" means the god of Sun in Japanese culture.

saying his most desired opponent being Konohamaru doesn't prove he is strong, but it is an indication how his view of the world is, not really anyone he wants to surpass. if you look at other characters, Sannin all wanted to fight Hiruzen at one point before Hiruzen's death, Kakashi wants to fight Minato, Minato wants to fight Jiraiya, there's always someone they want to challenge.

Kishi is the author of Naruto, you are not, doesn't matter if he makes mistake or not, you can't deny him when it comes to Naruto, he created it.

I'm down for any argument about any character on the tier list.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 01:00 PM
The list isn't perfect of course and Hiruzen shouldnt be that high but he deserves credit. I didn't think "YOU FAIL" when I saw it I thought more "Wow pretty good to put Hiruzen up there"

And Skyfire I must ask, similes are supposed to be taken literally?

thank you.
and I agree Hiruzen doesn't have any proofs yet to be the strongest character since the Sage, but there are many hypes putting him up there, let's wait for it, hopefully it will come out during one of the future flash backs.
we have never seen a prime Hiruzen, so there's no way to deny the hypes, that's why I assumed the hypes, or more like statements, are true, and putting him up there.

like I said, the list isn't based on feats only, but description and statements also.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 01:03 PM
I consider statements a lot stronger than hypes, for example, Sarutobi Hiruzen being the strongest Hokage and being the strongest out of all 5 Kages are statements, and a pure hype would be his father, Sarutobi Sasuke, who was said to be a great ninja, and first person in the series to have a character named after him, that's why it is impossible to rank his father, but Hiruzen himself can be put up.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 01:08 PM
I want to move Mu above 3rd Raikage, but then 2nd Mizekage will move up to either above Minato or above Orichimaru, since they double KOed each other.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 01:23 PM
You should also consider that Itachi's MS makes him blind, so he couldn't just keep facing strong opponents, while Nagato can send Pein to fight stronger opponents and barely take damage. He's got so many abilities and almost impossible to fight 1vs1, especially with CT which very few people can escape, kinda changed my mind overnight lol

BTW if you delete the spaces it would help everybody's eyes probably :P

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 01:36 PM
You should also consider that Itachi's MS makes him blind, so he couldn't just keep facing strong opponents, while Nagato can send Pein to fight stronger opponents and barely take damage. He's got so many abilities and almost impossible to fight 1vs1, especially with CT which very few people can escape, kinda changed my mind overnight lol

BTW if you delete the spaces it would help everybody's eyes probably :P

ya Mangekyou has side effects, but that's like long term, if we talk about healthy Itachi here, that would be that much of a factor. Six Path of Pain is a little different, Pain's body needs preparation, also Nagato's offense is weakened as Pain, if Pain fails, he is pretty much out of Chakra. I think its either Nagato or Pain, I don't think you can have both :P

also I believe how strong Pain partially depends on the body he uses, that's why Nagato chooses bodies, and all the bodies he used were strong ninjas who fought Jiraiya sometimes in the past. for the same reason, Madara is using the Jinchiruiki as his Pain, instead of using 6 random bodies. just a thought thou.

I thought putting space in between would make it easier to read, not forming a wall of text lol, but it makes it a lot longer, Imma try to get rid of some of the spaces. thx

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 01:40 PM
changes: got rid of the spaces, and moved Mu above 3rd Raikage, moved 2nd Mizekage above Orochimaru(not sure if I should), also added Chikamatsu Monzaemon to Super Kage's Honourable mentions.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 01:43 PM
ya Mangekyou has side effects, but that's like long term, if we talk about healthy Itachi here, that would be that much of a factor. Six Path of Pain is a little different, Pain's body needs preparation, also Nagato's offense is weakened as Pain, if Pain fails, he is pretty much out of Chakra. I think its either Nagato or Pain, I don't think you can have both :P

also I believe how strong Pain partially depends on the body he uses, that's why Nagato chooses bodies, and all the bodies he used were strong ninjas who fought Jiraiya sometimes in the past. for the same reason, Madara is using the Jinchiruiki as his Pain, instead of using 6 random bodies. just a thought thou.

I thought putting space in between would make it easier to read, not forming a wall of text lol, but it makes it a lot longer, Imma try to get rid of some of the spaces. thx
But the MS doesn't affect the health, it's about how much he uses it. For example, even if Itachi was fit and healthy when he fought Sasuke, it wouldn't matter if he kept on using MS since he would be blind regardless. I just think of how prepared Nagato was when Naruto showed up at his doorstep even though he was in SM, while Nagato however just attacked the village with his paths, blew the village up, preceeded to fight Naruto the first time, fight the six tailed Kyuubi, used CT, and fought Naruto a second time, while seeming prepared to take him on again. But i do agree that the more powerful the person, the stronger the paths. I just believe that Nagato is more versatile, and actually has feats that are forgotten that are not related to his six paths, like how the rinnegan is suppose to give mastery of 5 elements, which is featless though i admit so i rarely use it
Not so much the text as much the list, it just seems harder to read than the official one :P,

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 02:01 PM
But the MS doesn't affect the health, it's about how much he uses it. For example, even if Itachi was fit and healthy when he fought Sasuke, it wouldn't matter if he kept on using MS since he would be blind regardless. I just think of how prepared Nagato was when Naruto showed up at his doorstep even though he was in SM, while Nagato however just attacked the village with his paths, blew the village up, preceeded to fight Naruto the first time, fight the six tailed Kyuubi, used CT, and fought Naruto a second time, while seeming prepared to take him on again. But i do agree that the more powerful the person, the stronger the paths. I just believe that Nagato is more versatile, and actually has feats that are forgotten that are not related to his six paths, like how the rinnegan is suppose to give mastery of 5 elements, which is featless though i admit so i rarely use it
Not so much the text as much the list, it just seems harder to read than the official one :P,

ya I fixed the spacing, thx, this one has more names.

I think MS's blindness comes in when Itachi uses MS a lot, it's long term, he won't turn blind just using it a few times, and I think his health condition might have a little affect too, Sasuke used MS a lot and didn't have a sign of going blind yet.

ya I actually kinda think the 5 element not as impressive as the 6 paths, because before Nagato discovered the full potential of Rinnegan, he could use 5 elements at a young age, but when he was in Akatsuki, Yahiko was the one that's well known, Nagato was little known, I doubt Nagato was that strong with 5 elements alone, most likely after he fully developed his Rinnegan, that's when he became very scary.
Nagato was tired after he used the super Shinra Tensei, had to recover for a while, and after he used CT, it's basically pushing over his limit, he was coughing blood and exhausted, I don't think he had anything left for Naruto when Naruto came in.

ya Nagato vs Itachi is kinda annoying of a topic since it's discussed wayyy too much, if you find anything I should change on the list, lemme know, we can discuss about those ones.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 05:05 PM
I think Deidara and the 4rth Kazekage should be higher than Kimimaro, since both are pretty much kage level and can fly (not sure if gold sand is too heavy), which by itself dominates most taijutsu users
Only talking about Deidara now: he can make a large variety of C1 bombs that are small, swift and random, able to catch people off guard well and good for just general anti-speedblitzing like vs Sasuke, then he goes into the bigger bombs, which the majority of need defenses in order to survive, like Sasuke's snake summons, Gaara's sand and some others. The C2 Dragon fires fast and very deadly explosives, with an alarming potent. C3 would have destroyed at least part of a village, which means it's powerful as heck. C4 1- hits most people, very hard to dodge too. His C0 is a suicidal attack but at the same time, very very deadly, if he did that in a village, the village is gone. Then there's all his supplement abilities like clay clones and he's actually quite intelligent

iDooom
09-12-2011, 05:23 PM
Terrible list. Hiruzen is not above everyone because of hype. Fine, if you really want keep him up there. But Tobirama being so high? Okay, that's screwed up.

Honourable Mentions: Sarutobi Sasuke, Uchiha Izuna, Chikamatsu Monzaemon

What is wrong with that. Who is Chikamatsu? Izuna's up there for no reason. Sarutobi has neither hype or feats. Totally messed up.

Hanzo
Shimura Danzo
Mu
3rd Raikage
2nd Mizekage
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Namikaze Minato
Killer B
Kinkaku
A
Onoki
Gaara

Hanzo is WAY too high. Jiraiya is higher than Minato? And Kinkaku is not higher than A. Orochimaru seems to be stuck in randomly.
Overall, I'd say this tier list is even worse than the other one.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 05:32 PM
I think Deidara and the 4rth Kazekage should be higher than Kimimaro, since both are pretty much kage level and can fly (not sure if gold sand is too heavy), which by itself dominates most taijutsu users
Only talking about Deidara now: he can make a large variety of C1 bombs that are small, swift and random, able to catch people off guard well and good for just general anti-speedblitzing like vs Sasuke, then he goes into the bigger bombs, which the majority of need defenses in order to survive, like Sasuke's snake summons, Gaara's sand and some others. The C2 Dragon fires fast and very deadly explosives, with an alarming potent. C3 would have destroyed at least part of a village, which means it's powerful as heck. C4 1- hits most people, very hard to dodge too. His C0 is a suicidal attack but at the same time, very very deadly, if he did that in a village, the village is gone. Then there's all his supplement abilities like clay clones and he's actually quite intelligent

Deidara is considerable, 4th Kazekage didn't really impress me, gold dust can stop sand, and can be used for physical attacks, but must be a lot slower than Gaara's sand since it's heavy, plus Iron Sand is stronger than Gold Dust, he was killed by Orochimaru with little effort(not sure how he knows Orochimaru can use Edo Tensei, since Orochimaru used it after his death, so either Orochimaru used ET against him, or he told him about it), he got dominated fighting against Gaara, even thou his kekkei genkai has an advantage, I don't see him being much higher, no hype, no record, not as much feats either.
Deidara on the other hand, very possible to be even higher, C4 is very deadly, I believe Kimimaro can protect himself against up to C3, but C4 is very difficult to overcome. but Kimimaro is more versatile with his taijutsu, finger bullets for long range, close-mid range combat isn't hard for an elite taijutsu user like him. I gave Kimimaro high ranking because from what Jugo was saying, he could defeat Jugo pretty easily in the past, Jugo being a Weak Jounin level ninja on my list, close to Suigetsu's level, but 2 other Weak Kage ninjas didn't seem to defeat Suigetsu that easily, Kisame and Darui, all three pairs have similar battling style(taijutsu vs taijutsu for Kimimaro vs Jugo, sword fight for the other two), therefore Kimimaro received a pretty high overall ranking.

iDooom
09-12-2011, 05:41 PM
Really, the more I look, the more flaws there are. How is Kakuzu above Deidara and Kisame? Kisame shouldn't be that low. Where's Konan? Why's Kakashi so high? Really?

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 05:44 PM
Terrible list. Hiruzen is not above everyone because of hype. Fine, if you really want keep him up there. But Tobirama being so high? Okay, that's screwed up.

Honourable Mentions: Sarutobi Sasuke, Uchiha Izuna, Chikamatsu Monzaemon

What is wrong with that. Who is Chikamatsu? Izuna's up there for no reason. Sarutobi has neither hype or feats. Totally messed up.

Hanzo
Shimura Danzo
Mu
3rd Raikage
2nd Mizekage
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Namikaze Minato
Killer B
Kinkaku
A
Onoki
Gaara

Hanzo is WAY too high. Jiraiya is higher than Minato? And Kinkaku is not higher than A. Orochimaru seems to be stuck in randomly.
Overall, I'd say this tier list is even worse than the other one.

Tobirama knows ST jutsu that's similar level as Minato, knows elite Suiton, and knows Edo Tensei, that doesn't impress you?

We are talking about a prime Hanzo, both Jiraiya and Mifune's memory about Hanzo was during that time, and both of them refuse to believe Hanzo could be killed. I doubt Jiraiya surpasses a Hanzo in his own memory, because when he heard Hanzo was killed by Pain, he was in too much of a shock.

Jiraiya is ranked higher than Minato based on a few hints, some are strong points, some are just there: Jiraiya was the 2nd Candidate for 4th Hokage after Orochimaru, but he couldn't because he had to travel around and gather info, choosing the child of prophecy. Jiraiya can go Sage mode and summon the two Sennin Toads, doesn't make him stronger, but gives him an advantage. Minato's most desired opponent is Jiraiya, since Jiraiya is an elder to Minato, meaning at least they are the same level, or Minato wouldn't want to fight someone he already surpassed. Nagato, who is one of the strongest character in the manga, hold VERY high standards of Jiraiya.

why isn't Kinkaku higher than A? A is the one said once Kinkaku gets going he can't be stopped, Kinkaku took out an entire army of thousands people by himself, Kitsuchi nor Darui can do little damage to him.

and I don't see how Orochimaru is random, do you mean he should be higher or lower?

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 05:45 PM
Deidara is considerable, 4th Kazekage didn't really impress me, gold dust can stop sand, and can be used for physical attacks, but must be a lot slower than Gaara's sand since it's heavy, plus Iron Sand is stronger than Gold Dust, he was killed by Orochimaru with little effort(not sure how he knows Orochimaru can use Edo Tensei, since Orochimaru used it after his death, so either Orochimaru used ET against him, or he told him about it), he got dominated fighting against Gaara, even thou his kekkei genkai has an advantage, I don't see him being much higher, no hype, no record, not as much feats either.
Deidara on the other hand, very possible to be even higher, C4 is very deadly, I believe Kimimaro can protect himself against up to C3, but C4 is very difficult to overcome. but Kimimaro is more versatile with his taijutsu, finger bullets for long range, close-mid range combat isn't hard for an elite taijutsu user like him. I gave Kimimaro high ranking because from what Jugo was saying, he could defeat Jugo pretty easily in the past, Jugo being a Weak Jounin level ninja on my list, close to Suigetsu's level, but 2 other Weak Kage ninjas didn't seem to defeat Suigetsu that easily, Kisame and Darui, all three pairs have similar battling style(taijutsu vs taijutsu for Kimimaro vs Jugo, sword fight for the other two), therefore Kimimaro received a pretty high overall ranking.
Eh i wouldn't really say Kimimaro is adapt at long range, he only has his finger bullets to do anything. Yes he is a master at taijutsu, nobody can deny that. Still he doesn't seem as high a level as Deidara, who basically broke into a village and kidnapped their Kazekage while not preparing properly. His bird is quite fast and can dodge some of the slower long ranged jutsu, while being practically untouchable by taijutsu only users. I also see Deidara as the more intelligent of the two. Plus Deidara reacted twice to Sasuke's blitz in part 2, despite him being overall a fast character and Deidara getting caught off guard to at least one of those blitzes, if not two, Deidara's not even a close range fighter either. How many people can say that they can dodge C4; not too many. Also remember that Deidara was able to clash for a bit with Team Guy despite having NO arms, although it was off panel, and escaping the situation with a clone suicide.

iDooom
09-12-2011, 05:47 PM
Tobirama knows ST jutsu that's similar level as Minato, knows elite Suiton, and knows Edo Tensei, that doesn't impress you?

Level of Minato? not. His Edo Tensei is incomplete, so the only thing he has is suiton. Meaning easy speedblitz.

We are talking about a prime Hanzo, both Jiraiya and Mifune's memory about Hanzo was during that time, and both of them refuse to believe Hanzo could be killed. I doubt Jiraiya surpasses a Hanzo in his own memory, because when he heard Hanzo was killed by Pain, he was in too much of a shock.

He beat the Sanin a while back, doesn't mean he's higher than them now.

Jiraiya is ranked higher than Minato based on a few hints, some are strong points, some are just there: Jiraiya was the 2nd Candidate for 4th Hokage after Orochimaru, but he couldn't because he had to travel around and gather info, choosing the child of prophecy. Jiraiya can go Sage mode and summon the two Sennin Toads, doesn't make him stronger, but gives him an advantage. Minato's most desired opponent is Jiraiya, since Jiraiya is an elder to Minato, meaning at least they are the same level, or Minato wouldn't want to fight someone he already surpassed. Nagato, who is one of the strongest character in the manga, hold VERY high standards of Jiraiya.

Minato is much stronger than Jiraiya. A is faster than SM Jiraiya yet couldn't hit Minato, sure what can Jiraiya do?

why isn't Kinkaku higher than A? A is the one said once Kinkaku gets going he can't be stopped, Kinkaku took out an entire army of thousands people by himself, Kitsuchi nor Darui can do little damage to him.

Kinkaku can't do ;);););) to A. Yeah, speedblitz.

and I don't see how Orochimaru is random, do you mean he should be higher or lower?
Depends on whether you count Edo Tensei or not. Since you do, higher.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 05:49 PM
Really, the more I look, the more flaws there are. How is Kakuzu above Deidara and Kisame? Kisame shouldn't be that low. Where's Konan? Why's Kakashi so high? Really?

Kakuzu Kisame and Deidara are the same level, if you want to put Kisame higher than Kakuzu, it is debatable, so is Deidara. but Kisame isn't going much higher, because:
he stated himself he was no match for Jiraiya, and he agrees him fighting Kakashi(no mangekyou) would be a very long battle.
he fought Killer Bee, won but had everything going for him
he fought Gai, lost, but it was the worst match up for him.
Kisame stays in the middle of Killer Bee and Gai.

Kakashi is too high? he's the 6th Hokage Candidate, has Mangekyou Sharingan along with great lightning release, very intelligent as well, he could fight a 30% Itachi and gain upper hand, fight Deva and Asura at the same time and styll surprised them, his Kamui has gotten a lot better, how much lower would you put him?

and in term of Konan, without preparation she is possibly the weakest member in Akatsuki, same level as Hidan, a lot weaker than Hanzo and Jiraiya, stronger than Shibi but not by much. she's in Strong Jounin Tier.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 05:50 PM
Depends on whether you count Edo Tensei or not. Since you do, higher.

Minato stated it himself, Madara's S/T jutsu surpasses both him and Tobirama, putting him and Tobirama in the same league. Tobirama's ET isn't completed, he banned it right after he developed it, but he used it, it shocked the ninja world enough to make every single old ninja recognize this technique and Tobirama right away.

you are right, he beat Sannin when Sannin were in their 20s, but that's not my only proof, Jiraiya and Mifune both thought Hanzo couldn't be killed, plus Jiraiya was in HUGE shock when he heard Pain killed Hanzo, if from what he remembers, he can do the same now, he wouldn't be shocked, that's why I think there's a chance Jiraiya doesn't think he's stronger than a prime Hanzo.

this is a list of who's stronger, not who's faster, prove Minato is much stronger than Jiraiya. yes A is faster than Jiraiya but slower than Hiraishin, but so what? Rock Lee is prob faster than Jiraiya too. Sage Mode isn't something just to improve speed, Jiraiya's Rasengan in Sage Mode is about 10000 times the size of Minatos, plus he has stronger summonings.

speed blitz Kinkaku? Kinkaku took Kitsuchi's rock hardened punch and only got knocked back, how do you know A will do damage on Kinkaku? A is the one said Kinkaku can't be stopped once he transforms, he took out pretty much the entire division.

no, Edo Tensei counts as preparation, but for Orochimaru, that's the only thing that's not allowed, so what Orochimaru have here are: Hydra form, white snake form, Oral Rebirth along with all the snake jutsus he has.

for ur question from before, Chikamatsu Monzaemon is the creator of puppets, he was the first puppeteer and he was the one created the White Secret puppets Chiyo used, also Sasori's most desired opponent.
Uchiha Izuna is Madara's brother, he has Mangekyou Sharingan, and said to be just as strong as Madara before Madara got his EMS.
Sarutobi Sasuke was said to be a great ninja, and the only person in the manga having someone named after him, great hype.

Honourable mentions are only for characters with no feats, and little hypes, but the hypes indicates something about their skill levels.

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Eh i wouldn't really say Kimimaro is adapt at long range, he only has his finger bullets to do anything. Yes he is a master at taijutsu, nobody can deny that. Still he doesn't seem as high a level as Deidara, who basically broke into a village and kidnapped their Kazekage while not preparing properly. His bird is quite fast and can dodge some of the slower long ranged jutsu, while being practically untouchable by taijutsu only users. I also see Deidara as the more intelligent of the two. Plus Deidara reacted twice to Sasuke's blitz in part 2, despite him being overall a fast character and Deidara getting caught off guard to at least one of those blitzes, if not two, Deidara's not even a close range fighter either. How many people can say that they can dodge C4; not too many. Also remember that Deidara was able to clash for a bit with Team Guy despite having NO arms, although it was off panel, and escaping the situation with a clone suicide.

ya I agree Kimimaro's long range attack are too basic, I don't see Deidara's bomb up to C3 can do any real damage on someone with Kimimaro's defense. C4 is very dangerous if it comes out, if Kimimaro can't really hit Deidara when Deidara is flying high, it is possible for Deidara to beat Kimimaro, but remember this isn't based on who can beat who, Deidara counters Kimimaro by making his taijutsu useless, so it can be a bad match-up for Kimimaro, if we are talking about overall skill levels, we might have to look at it a little differently. just like Omoi counters his explosive clay pretty easily, but in term of skill levels, Deidara's still higher. so do you think Deidara should be moved up? or Kimimaro should be moved down?

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 06:23 PM
Ehh.. in my total honest opinion if i had a say it would be both: reasons being is because there's a few characters at the low kage tier that should be in mid, for example: the 4rth Kazekage overpowering a bijuu and basically having the power to move huge amounts of sand if there are ones ready, deidara explained above, Darui i think is okay, Kisame can spit out oceans/drain people's chakra/has immense stamina/can regenerate thanks to his sword/uses effective water jutsus like 3 water clones + instant water prison while getting charged at by Lee, Neji and Tenten/water dome/1000 sharks/his giant shark jutsu (forgot name) which absorbs chakra and is immense by itself, don't know much about the next guy so won't use him, Kakuzu has years and years of experience while being able to attack long range with taijutsu thanks to his wired hands and being able to spam extremely powerful elemental jutsu

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 06:39 PM
4th Kazekage can stop the 1 tailed beast's sand, but he couldn't stop Gaara's sand, plus doing something to a tailed beast isn't really rare, Deidara did it, Hidan did it, and now 3rd Raikage, 4th Kazekage's skills are perfect for stopping sand, gives him an advantage.
Kisame's strengths you listed them, but there are also a few things indicating he's not that strong: knowing he is no match for Jiraiya, and ties Kakashi, had to kill all his teammates when encountered by Ibiki(Weak Jounin)'s team, Suigetsu believes he can challenge Kisame, even thou Sasuke thinks he can't beat him yet, the different doesn't seem to be that big, Kisame also holds pretty high standards to Suigetsu and Zabuza. I would like to put him a level lower than Sasori, and same level as Kakuzu and Deidara, because Sasori's 100 puppets, Magnet Release with Iron Sand(3rd Kazekage puppet) and his own body puppet are all very impressive, also I just want to mention it, in the databook, those 3's stats are significantly lower than Sasori's, while all 4 of them having skills that are not included, so no one gets the advantage or disadvantage here. rather those 3 should be moved into a higher tier is considerable, but then there will be no one left here. also Ginkaku is stronger than Kakuzu and it seems to be kinda obviously how Shikamaru stated, Deidara got a little downgraded from fighting Omoi and Sai, that's why I decided to put them here.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 06:53 PM
To be fair about Deidara, he was cocky thinking that ET would totally prevent damage from him, he was going to use C0 as a zombie to, and you know what that means :P
But i believe it was Itachi that said they were no match for Jiraiya and that Kakashi would take time, while Kisame questioned Itachi later on Jiraiya and Itachi never truly wanted to fight at konoha in the first place

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 06:59 PM
ya but Deidara didn't get as bad of a rip off as Sasori, who lost ALL his puppets, Sasori was more limited. Deidara admits Sasori is stronger than him too, but that doesn't prevent putting them into the same level. Im thinking how should I do this, Sasori is above those 3, but those 3 can possibly come into the same tier, or I can drop a few other characters into Weak Kage Tier.
Itachi said so because he was a spy, but Kisame wasn't, so if he completely disagrees with it, he couldn't just listen to Itachi like that, he's not the most intelligent character but he's def not stupid.

I'd like to keep Kisame, Kakuzu and Deidara the same level, all three have something unique or powerful, Kakuzu's position is basically between Kinkaku and Asuma, leaning towards Asuma I'd say, based on the army's reaction, while Deidara is very likely in between Onoki and Akatsuchi, that's basically the same as Kinkaku and Asuma, Kisame is in between Jiraiya and Suigetsu, or Killer Bee and Gai, still put them anywhere between their current tier to maybe the bottom of Mid Kage tier.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 07:02 PM
Where does Deidara get his clay anyways? ^.-
I dunno Kisame was pretty loyal and respected Itachi, if Itachi said something he probably took his word for it, but what do you mean by the spy thing?

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 07:13 PM
lol maybe Deidara's clay weren't that special? just him putting them into his mouths and mix them with his chakra make them explosive? lol
Im sure Kisame heard of Sannin before, and he was impressed with their hype, plus his attack got blocked and he got trapped, so he has an understanding of Jiraiya's power, I styll dont' see Kisame getting bullsh*tted by Itachi without realizing Jiraiya is real strong, and we know at least 2 of the Sannin worth their hypes lol. Spy might be a bad word but I meant Itachi was actually there to protect Konoha, spying on Akatsuki and Madara.

I added a little more on the previous reply. and based on Suigetsu, Kisame isn't far from Darui.

Sasori should be at least a tier above 4th Kazekage, since his puppet is the strongest Kazekage of all time by the time it was stated in the manga. debating 4th Kazekage vs Gaara when he was captured by Deidara might help comparing Deidara vs 4th Kazekage. I believe by the time Deidara captured Gaara, Deidara is a slightly stronger than Gaara.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 07:20 PM
I'd still say he's above Kimimaro, considering Kisame is up there on Akatsuki level with Orochimaru and Kimimaro's his subordinate, even he wouldn't stand up against the sanin, not like i'm saying Kisame > Jiraiya or anything
The ET zombies basically got fodderized though X_X except for a few

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 07:27 PM
Orochimaru and Kimimaro have a slightly different relationship, and Orochimaru is in Akatsuki basically for Sharingan, and maybe to study Madara's plan too, special intention. oh Hidan and Konan are Akatsuki members too :P
ur right about those ET zombies, I guess once they die their secrets get revealed, and other people are improving too, I believe it is an indication of their skills though, of course there are different conditions, like some are not controlled, like Deidara, Sasori, Kakuzu, some are partially controlled, like Mu, 2nd Mizekage, some are fully controlled, like Nagato, 3rd Raikage, Zabuza.
Kisame is lucky he didn't get ETed lol, but styll, he goes up or down with Deidara and Kakuzu.

the main reason Kimimaro and Kisame are at their current level is actually because we are assuming he is in his prime(stronger than when he fought Gaara and Lee), and he could beat Jugo easily, seems easier than Kisame can beat Suigetsu.

Super Sanin 3
09-12-2011, 07:34 PM
Don't forget how 30% Kisame faced against Post Guy, Rock Lee, Tenten, and Neji
Post Rock Lee's taijutsu alone should be around at least somewhere at Kimi's base, then there's guy who's got even better taijutsu. Kisame can literally make the battlefield an ocean, and he's adapt at using it too: look at all the jutsu he has as well, including his 1000 sharks and his giant shark one, plus water dome to drown most people, i wish i could post pics but it's off limits lol

GucciBandana
09-12-2011, 07:45 PM
yes that's true, Rock Lee's taijutsu is 5/5 according to the databook, so is Kimimaro. Kisame was mainly using water jutsu against him thou, Lee didn't use gates or drunken fist, and he doesn't have Kimimaro's kekkei genkai, which can basically turn the whole battle field into spikes. pre time skip Lee was pretty much an one hit kill for Kimimaro in his cs lvl 2, and if Kimimaro gets healthy, even with Lee's improvement, I don't think he stands a chance.
Kisame has water, a lot of water, with sharks in them, Kimimaro has bones, a lot of very hard and sharp bones.

new chapter is out, thinking moving 3rd Raikage down to right above Killer Bee. and moving Dodai into strong Jounin Tier from Honorable Mentions, below Choji, above Akatsuchi.

Mu and 2nd Mizekage stays the same.

BTW RM Naruto isn't a sensor, he can only sense "evil", and that's it, SM Naruto is a sensor, and I believe SM Jiraiya is too. Dodai seems to be a sensor too I believe? also there's a possibility he can use black lightning as well, suggested by the kanji on his eye patch, the same one Kinkaku saw on Darui to recognize Darui being able to use the 3rd Raikage's black lightning.

GucciBandana
09-21-2011, 09:34 AM
like I thought, it's hard for Onoki to use more than 1 Jinton per battle.

nothing needs to be changed, 2nd Mizekage stays.

GucciBandana
10-12-2011, 09:35 AM
right now I styll don't see anything wrong with this list, maybe only Gaara needs to be switched with a prime Onoki, that's it.

Flying Fortress Skyfire
10-12-2011, 09:57 AM
Super Kage Tier

Sarutobi HiruzenProblem #1.

Weak Jounin/Strong Special Jounin Tier

Jugo
Temari
Shizune
Rock Lee
Nara Shikamaru
Aburame ShinoProblem #2
Problem #3

Strong Kage Tier

Hanzo
Shimura Danzo
Mu
2nd Mizukage
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Namikaze Minato
3rd RaikageProblem #4
Problem #5
Problem #6

Mid Kage Tier

Tsunade
Terumi MeiProblem #7

All of the problems need to be moved down because they are plainly inferior to the people below them.

And lol at the idea that Gaara is above Onoki.

GucciBandana
10-12-2011, 10:19 AM
Problem #1.

Problem #2
Problem #3

Problem #4
Problem #5
Problem #6

Problem #7

All of the problems need to be moved down because they are plainly inferior to the people below them.

And lol at the idea that Gaara is above Onoki.

if me n you get into the Hiruzen argument it would be pointless, because u don't believe any statements, and I consider them if they are valid, so I won't go into there.

Shizune and Shikamaru, they aren't very high up, I didn't spend too much time ranking their exact position, so I don't want to argue about them either, especially Shizune, while Shikamaru is arguable.

Hanzo is another case of Hiruzen, hype vs much weakened feats argument, lets skip that too, now go onto Orochimaru and Minato, tell me why you think they should be moved down and I will respond.

also, I want to know ur thoughts on Gaara and Onoki as well

Flying Fortress Skyfire
10-12-2011, 11:04 AM
Onoki > Gaara all day, every day.

Orochimaru and Minato should be moved down because they are inferior to Jiraiya and vastly inferior to the 3rd Raikage. Indisputably so.

I don't know where you got the idea that Tsunade is superior to Mei in any area that matters.

GucciBandana
10-13-2011, 09:41 AM
Onoki > Gaara all day, every day.

Orochimaru and Minato should be moved down because they are inferior to Jiraiya and vastly inferior to the 3rd Raikage. Indisputably so.

I don't know where you got the idea that Tsunade is superior to Mei in any area that matters.

if we talk about a prime Onoki, it might be a different story, but the Onoki today can't keep up with Mu nor 2nd Mizukage as well as Gaara can, I don't see him being stronger than Gaara, at all.

Orochimaru and Minato are the same level as Jiraiya, Minato aside, Orochimaru himself isn't inferior to Jiraiya based on feats or hype.

I don't see 3rd Raikage being stronger than either Orochimaru nor Jiraiya, 3rd Raikage is very strong but only in one dimension, the other 2 Sannins are a lot more versatile.

[Shikamaru]
10-14-2011, 11:27 AM
A lot of mistakes here in power scaling.

Jugo is far from low tier Jonin. He tanked a hit from V2 Raikage.

Deidara weak kage-tier? His C4 trumps just about all certain-kill Jutsu. The fact you put Tsunade and Sasori above him is a joke.

Asuma isn't even present in Jonin tier? Not sure why

Also, you stated in the OP tiering is based on features, yet you placed the 1st, the 3rd and the 2nd above Minato? Lol - There's a reason why Sarutobi stopped the 3rd casket from opening.

A should by all means be Super-Kage tier. He can blitz everyone mentioned in the manga with the exception of a 9-tailed enhanced son of Minato.

Strength, speed and durability, and Jutsu should be features mentioned when you choose super-kage tier ninja. A has all of these.

GucciBandana
10-14-2011, 11:56 AM
;5610123']A lot of mistakes here in power scaling.

Jugo is far from low tier Jonin. He tanked a hit from V2 Raikage.

Deidara weak kage-tier? His C4 trumps just about all certain-kill Jutsu. The fact you put Tsunade and Sasori above him is a joke.

Asuma isn't even present in Jonin tier? Not sure why

Also, you stated in the OP tiering is based on features, yet you placed the 1st, the 3rd and the 2nd above Minato? Lol - There's a reason why Sarutobi stopped the 3rd casket from opening.

A should by all means be Super-Kage tier. He can blitz everyone mentioned in the manga with the exception of a 9-tailed enhanced son of Minato.

Strength, speed and durability, and Jutsu should be features mentioned when you choose super-kage tier ninja. A has all of these.

Jugo took 2 hits from A and became paralyzed. he didn't really take a direct hit for the first time, he had his defense up. and how does Suigetsu taking a TBB and survive compare? other feats/statements Jugo had: losing to Killer Bee easily, losing to Kimimaro fairly easily, Suigetsu thinks he's pretty strong and troublesome.

Deidara stated himself Sasori is stronger than him. Deidara's C4 won't work as well on any Kage level ninjas even for the first time, because no one won't be suspicious after seeing Deidara's clone explodes n nothing happens, any one with high intelligence won't run into the area near C4's explosion, plus C4 explodes into a volume, the location of the volume won't change.
additionally, if anyone has some sort of information on C4, C4 loses a lot of effectiveness.

Asuma is in strong jounin tier

the tier listing is based on features and statements(hype) and databook information, Hashirama's reasoning to be placed so high shouldn't be hard to see, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage of all time, and Tobirama is the strongest shinobi of his time, knowing S/T jutsu same level as Minato, knowing Edo Tensei that shocked the whole world at his time.

A failed to blitz Tobi, failed to blitz Jugo, failed to blitz Sasuke, failed to blitz Minato, only one he blitzed is white Zetsu, twice.
A lost an arm from fighting Sasuke with only rib cage of Susanoo, that's the only real fight he got into.

super kage level strength, speed, durability and taijutsu is what A has, but not genjutsu, intelligence, seal, nor ninjutsu(lightning armor is a very good ninjutsu, but that's the only ninjutsu he uses).
if there's a databook stats for him, it will look something like this:

nin 4.5
tai 5
gen 3
int 3.5
spe 5
str 5
sta 5
sea 3.5
total: 34.5

Kuromaki
10-15-2011, 10:50 AM
Temari a weak jonin? what

GucciBandana
10-15-2011, 01:54 PM
Temari a weak jonin? what

that was my perspective for her before the war, she prob improved, if you think she can be moved up, give me reasons, if I agree with you, she will be moved up.

Kuromaki
10-15-2011, 06:33 PM
She blew down a forest when she was a genin... Imagine her power as a jonin.

Her only shown improvement in the war was the wind net, but it shows how much control she has over her wind now.

Also, I would put Jugo a little higher too, he supposedly has insane chakra levels and can take a good amount of damage.

Yellow Flash
10-15-2011, 06:41 PM
To add to what Kuro said, Jugo had a hole punched in him by A and recovered from it enough to launch another attack. Good feat if you ask me.

Vivi
10-15-2011, 06:46 PM
She blew down a forest when she was a genin... Imagine her power as a jonin.

Her only shown improvement in the war was the wind net, but it shows how much control she has over her wind now.

Also, I would put Jugo a little higher too, he supposedly has insane chakra levels and can take a good amount of damage.

Actually if you look very close on the Panel you see that was a combo attack with others.

Fodder nin. No. 12832 can be seen doing a waving motion in his left hand holding something.

We know Temari isn't the only Fan user.

Super Sanin 3
10-15-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't believe Temari is a weak Jounin either, i digress.

Her main move set revolves around her using large-scale wind attacks to both attack and defend herself simultaneously. Due to the scale of the jutsu, it has a large chance of hitting, especially with no cover. Temari is also intelligent, being able to deduce Shikimaru's shadow range quite easily. She's actually been commented to be a strategist and was about to use a bushin on Shikimaru before she got caught.

Katamari leveled part of a forest. Plus she hit the third Raikage, showing speed efficiency. She's actually pretty tough

Kuromaki
10-15-2011, 06:58 PM
Actually if you look very close on the Panel you see that was a combo attack with others.

Fodder nin. No. 12832 can be seen doing a waving motion in his left hand holding something.

We know Temari isn't the only Fan user.
She still has good control over her wind though. Being able to cut through samurai armor, but not the samurai himself.

She may not be the only one but she's clearly the best.

GucciBandana
10-15-2011, 07:32 PM
She blew down a forest when she was a genin... Imagine her power as a jonin.

Her only shown improvement in the war was the wind net, but it shows how much control she has over her wind now.

Also, I would put Jugo a little higher too, he supposedly has insane chakra levels and can take a good amount of damage.

She still has good control over her wind though. Being able to cut through samurai armor, but not the samurai himself.

She may not be the only one but she's clearly the best.

yes Temari is strong, but we have to look at who we are comparing her to, look at the characters above her, she's at the very top of weak Jounin tier, if we move her up, she's gonna be the same level as Kurenai, Sai and Kankuro, I never thought she's much off Kankuro, and I thought she was the stronger one by the time they fought the Sounds Four, but after the war, Kankuro showed a bigger improvement than Temari to me, Sai on the other hands, I'm thinking of moving him above Kankuro since the new tiger technique he was hiding before, goes with that 2 god drawing, pretty deadly combo, but drawing tiger takes a lot of time it seems, might not be useful 1 on 1, but it's styll part of his skill sets, very useful in team battle.
Temari is the best wind user compare to fodders, which doesn't say much. of course she's very good, but I'm styll questioning if I should put her in the same league as Sai and them.

To add to what Kuro said, Jugo had a hole punched in him by A and recovered from it enough to launch another attack. Good feat if you ask me.

speaking of Jugo, yes he has good physical feats, but that doesn't change the fact he was defeated easily by A and Killer B, and fairly easily by Kimimaro. I don't see Jugo shielding A's punch as impressive as Suigetsu shielding B's TBB, don't forget Suigetsu blocked A's punch too, to protect Sasuke. compare to Suigetsu, Suigetsu is more impressive so far. Jugo is the same as Temari, they are strong, but compare to most people in my mid jounin tier, they are a little weaker. top of a list is basically similar to the bottom of the list above.

I don't believe Temari is a weak Jounin either, i digress.

Her main move set revolves around her using large-scale wind attacks to both attack and defend herself simultaneously. Due to the scale of the jutsu, it has a large chance of hitting, especially with no cover. Temari is also intelligent, being able to deduce Shikimaru's shadow range quite easily. She's actually been commented to be a strategist and was about to use a bushin on Shikimaru before she got caught.

Katamari leveled part of a forest. Plus she hit the third Raikage, showing speed efficiency. She's actually pretty tough

yes Temari is very intelligent, worth her 4/5 intelligence in the databook. however like I said before, she has her own area of strengths indeed, but is she as strong as most of the characters in the average jounin tier? Temari is strong, she is in weak jounin tier not because she's weak, but because most people in average jounin tier might be stronger.

Super Sanin 3
10-15-2011, 07:44 PM
Where are these fights taking place exactly? Don't forget that being in a cold blooded state, Juugo loses his senses and cannot think straight

Why do you place Baki so high, also?

GucciBandana
10-15-2011, 07:54 PM
Where are these fights taking place exactly? Don't forget that being in a cold blooded state, Juugo loses his senses and cannot think straight

Why do you place Baki so high, also?

which fights are you referring to? Jugo gains physical treats but loses intelligence when he fully transforms.

Baki is high because his performance in part 1, killing Hayate easily, and teaming up with Kabuto to fight Kakashi, Gai, Genma for a while. plus the databook backed it up with his stats. being Gaara sibling's Sensei, he must be one of the top Jounin in the village himself.

MinatoXNaruto
10-16-2011, 06:07 AM
Minato needs to be in the super kage tier. He was so strong, enemy villages put a flee on sight warning whenever they say him. We don't even know all of his abilities. He was one of the few people able to defeat madara. He figured out his jutsu in seconds. He's a true genius. He fought against the nine tailed fox and madara without prep. He was given a chance to save kushina or naruto. He managed to save both. On top of that, he managed to seal the nine tailed fox within himself and naruto. Nobody on the strong kage tier would be able to do that. Idk, but give the man some credit

Super Sanin 3
10-16-2011, 06:36 AM
I still think there are many people below Baki that could sweep him, Yamato for example

Shikamaru Nara
10-16-2011, 07:46 AM
The list isn't perfect of course and Hiruzen shouldnt be that high but he deserves credit. I didn't think "YOU FAIL" when I saw it I thought more "Wow pretty good to put Hiruzen up there"

And Skyfire I must ask, similes are supposed to be taken literally?

No list is perfect.

If he's using hype then he should be THAT high.
He was the strongest ninja in the leaf, master of ninjutsu, etc.

GucciBandana
10-16-2011, 11:43 AM
I still think there are many people below Baki that could sweep him, Yamato for example

Yamato vs Baki would be a good match, lemme explain my reasoning for Yamato, tell me what you think about it:
Yamato can't be much higher than Fu and Torune, because Fu and Torune are 2 of the best in Root, Yamato isn't from Root, he's from ANBU, and I believe he's one of the most known ANBU member as "Mokuton no Tenzo" and that's the reason he was chosen as Kakashi's replacement, but for Danzo to have this much power, Root must be a major part in ANBU, that means Root elites are at the top of ANBU as well, that makes Fu and Torune close to Yamato. at the same time, Fu and Torune shouldn't be above Inoichi and Shibi, because they are the clan leader, not saying it is not possible(Itachi), but it is highly unlikely, unless stated, the clan leader should be the strongest at least one of the strongest in the clan, since Torune and Fu and great ninjas from their clan, being close to the clan leader or even as strong as them is possible, that leaves Inoichi, Shibi, Yamato, Fu, Torune all pretty close to each other.

to me, Baki one shotting Hayate was pretty impressive, plus fighting Kakashi + Gai + Genma is pretty good even with Kabuto on his side, plus Baki never had any bad fights yet, not saying Yamato can't be stronger, but Baki is pretty good, as long as he stays within the top half of average Jounin Tier, I don't have a problem moving him around.


Minato needs to be in the super kage tier. He was so strong, enemy villages put a flee on sight warning whenever they say him. We don't even know all of his abilities. He was one of the few people able to defeat madara. He figured out his jutsu in seconds. He's a true genius. He fought against the nine tailed fox and madara without prep. He was given a chance to save kushina or naruto. He managed to save both. On top of that, he managed to seal the nine tailed fox within himself and naruto. Nobody on the strong kage tier would be able to do that. Idk, but give the man some credit

flee on sight shows Minato is strong, but not how strong. he defeated Tobi, as he in stopped Tobi's plan, but Tobi was the one leaving like nothing happened and Minato was the one left there in fear. and what he did was not more impressive than Konan even before the prep came into play, and dead Itachi did more damage as well. Fu and Torune actually figured out Madara's ability in seconds as well. Minato is a true genius, but that doesn't tell you how strong he is, Orochimaru, Kakashi, 3 Uchiha member in 4th Hokage era are all genius. 3rd Raikage, who is on the strong kage tier, sealed the 8 tail without getting injured himself. Chiyo in mid Kage tier, sealed the 1 tail as well, of course 9 tail is the strongest one, but 8 tail is pretty close, just showing you it can be done.
Minato can't be far off A nearly 20 years ago, and when Minato became Hokage, he was actually the 3rd option, after Orochimaru and Jiraiya, who is the man he desires to fight the most.

Kuromaki
10-16-2011, 12:11 PM
yes Temari is strong, but we have to look at who we are comparing her to, Yeah we're comparing her to Motoi who hasn't done anything, Shin who hasn't done anything, Omoi who hasn't done anything but some sword attacks which would require him to be in very close range, C who hasn't done anything but close range Genjutsu, etc etc She's a lot stronger than a bunch of people there. look at the characters above her, she's at the very top of weak Jounin tier, if we move her up, she's gonna be the same level as Kurenai, Sai and Kankuro, Which I am perfectly fine with. I never thought she's much off Kankuro, and I thought she was the stronger one by the time they fought the Sounds Four, but after the war, Kankuro showed a bigger improvement than Temari to me, Not really. Most of his attacks relied on teamwork from his other teammates its not like he changed that much to the point where he can survive being sliced into pieces by Temari. I'll allow them being on the same level, Temari possibly lower, but why is he there and not her? Sai on the other hands, I'm thinking of moving him above Kankuro since the new tiger technique he was hiding before, goes with that 2 god drawing, pretty deadly combo, but drawing tiger takes a lot of time it seems, That's why he needed people to look out for him when he was drawing it, and he needed to be right next to the person he was sealing, it's not useful at all. Plus Sai can take out what, several trees with his birds? Temari took down a forest, Also Correct me if I'm wrong but Sai can't really do anything to her that she can't just blow away. might not be useful 1 on 1, but it's styll part of his skill sets, very useful in team battle.
Temari is the best wind user compare to fodders, which doesn't say much. of course she's very good, but I'm still questioning if I should put her in the same league as Sai and them.



speaking of Jugo, yes he has good physical feats, but that doesn't change the fact he was defeated easily by A and Killer B, Yeah he ONLY got beaten by some of the strongest characters in the manga. and fairly easily by Kimimaro. Only because Kimimaro could 'calm him down' and Kimimaro is fairly strong in his own right, even now he would probably be like Jonin level I don't see Jugo shielding A's punch as impressive as Suigetsu shielding B's TBB I wasn't aware that Suigetsu had a lake of water with him here. The only way he can beat Jugo is if he absorbed a lot of water, regular CS2 Jugo would vaporize or outlast him otherwise.

Super Sanin 3
10-16-2011, 12:19 PM
I thought Baki never fought Kakashi and Guy but retreated instead?

GucciBandana
10-16-2011, 01:29 PM
Motoi isn't much of an argument since he doesn't have anything expect him being an excellent tracker, and summoned an owl, I can put him in honorable mention if anything. Shin doesn't have much feats, that's why he's in honorable mention, to be the only Root member revived shows how skilled he is. C is not only a good genjutsu user, also very good sensor and very intelligent, those all come into play in a fight and very important in tier listing, I don't see a problem putting C above most of the Kage body guards.

Kankuro has Sasori puppet, blocked Deidara's bomb using his puppet and chakra shield, we've seen a lot of feats he didn't have before, that's why his improvement if bigger than Temari.
even without Sai's tiger technique, he's very strong, plus even if tiger doesn't help much 1 on 1, it styll counts towards his skill level, since he can use it very effectively in team battle. Sai's skills aren't designed for cutting down forests, he can fly, very good taijutsu user and his strongest drawing attack destroyed Deidara's clay bird and sending both Sasori and Deidara flying, very impressive to me, more impressive than anything Temari did, Sasori and Deidara are both Akatsuki members, while trees are not even as strong as fodders since they can't attack nor move.

Jugo lost very quickly in all the fights he got into, Jugo tanked a punch from A but so did Suigetsu, resulting his arm turned into water and a broken sword, so I don't see why Jugo is more impressive. of course Suigetsu had to have the lake with him, how else can someone his level hold the 8 tail? I don't see Jugo doing so. Suigetsu also battled Kisame and saying it wasn't finished. regular Suigetsu clashed a rampaging Jugo and it was pretty much even for the moment, Jugo is mainly a taijutsu user while Suigetsu is also a ninjutsu user. Jugo has done nothing more impressive than Suigetsu has done, unless you believe Kimimaro is a lot stronger than Kisame, or else I believe Suigetsu is above Jugo.


I thought Baki never fought Kakashi and Guy but retreated instead?

maybe I remembered wrong, I thought they were at it already, the battle just stopped when Baki and Kabuto decided to retreat.

Kuromaki
10-16-2011, 07:00 PM
Motoi isn't much of an argument since he doesn't have anything expect him being an excellent tracker, and summoned an owl, I can put him in honorable mention if anything. Shin doesn't have much feats, that's why he's in honorable mention, to be the only Root member revived shows how skilled he is. C is not only a good genjutsu user, also very good sensor and very intelligent, those all come into play in a fight and very important in tier listing, I don't see a problem putting C above most of the Kage body guards.Why is Motoi even there? He doesn't even fight. If you're going to put him and C so high based mainly on tracking skills, then you may as well put Karin up there too.

Shin barely did anything though, yeah he may be on Sai's level if we give him all the hype we can but if he's up there then why are Temari, Jugo, Lee etc. not even honorable mentions?

C doesn't fight either, his only genjutsu shown was meant to be used in teamwork and his medical ninjutsu is best for support; he's mainly a support character. How he gets to be above skilled people who are actually suited for fighting is beyond me.

Kankuro has Sasori puppet, blocked Deidara's bomb using his puppet and chakra shield, we've seen a lot of feats he didn't have before, that's why his improvement if bigger than Temari.Ah, I see. Still, he needs to be able to get the opponent in the right position before he uses Salamander on them. Anyway that's why I said I;d forgive Temari being just below him.
even without Sai's tiger technique, he's very strong, plus even if tiger doesn't help much 1 on 1, it styll counts towards his skill level, since he can use it very effectively in team battle. Sai's skills aren't designed for cutting down forests, he can fly, very good taijutsu user and his strongest drawing attack destroyed Deidara's clay bird and sending both Sasori and Deidara flying, very impressive to me, more impressive than anything Temari did,Does destroying a forest as a noob mean anything to you?
Sasori and Deidara are both Akatsuki members, while trees are not even as strong as fodders since they can't attack nor move.What matters here with the forest cutting feat is the fact that Katamari took out a huge area of effect and managed to cut down trees which are generally tougher than human flesh. If it was used on fodder ninjas, they'd be screwed too.

Sasori and Deidara weren't even taking Sai very seriously and sat there letting him draw his giant beast things, besides, the fact that they were invincible zombies to begin with means that they probably wouldnt have tried to avoid him anyway.
Jugo lost very quickly in all the fights he got into, Jugo tanked a punch from A but so did Suigetsu, resulting his arm turned into water and a broken sword, so I don't see why Jugo is more impressive. You just made Suigetsu look less impressive right there. Tanking means you can still fight after taking the attack, and Suigetsu was pretty much done after A punched him. Jugo could still fire lasers at A and was eager to fight more after doing so.
of course Suigetsu had to have the lake with him, how else can someone his level hold the 8 tail? I don't see Jugo doing so.No I meant that I wasn't aware Suigetsu had a huge source of water with him for this tier. If he does, then he should be wayy higher.
Suigetsu also battled Kisame and saying it wasn't finished.Under unknown circumstances, more or less. Kisame could have been going easy on him (and probably was if you think about it).
regular Suigetsu clashed a rampaging Jugo and it was pretty much even for the moment,Jugo wasn't in CS2 and Sasuke stopped the fight before it got anywhere.
Jugo is mainly a taijutsu user while Suigetsu is also a ninjutsu user. Jugo has done nothing more impressive than Suigetsu has done, unless you believe Kimimaro is a lot stronger than Kisame, or else I believe Suigetsu is above Jugo.See above.

Suigetsu's ninjutsu won't do him any good against Jugo's lasers or stamina unless he has a lot of water with him.

MinatoXNaruto
10-17-2011, 05:53 AM
Yamato vs Baki would be a good match, lemme explain my reasoning for Yamato, tell me what you think about it:
Yamato can't be much higher than Fu and Torune, because Fu and Torune are 2 of the best in Root, Yamato isn't from Root, he's from ANBU, and I believe he's one of the most known ANBU member as "Mokuton no Tenzo" and that's the reason he was chosen as Kakashi's replacement, but for Danzo to have this much power, Root must be a major part in ANBU, that means Root elites are at the top of ANBU as well, that makes Fu and Torune close to Yamato. at the same time, Fu and Torune shouldn't be above Inoichi and Shibi, because they are the clan leader, not saying it is not possible(Itachi), but it is highly unlikely, unless stated, the clan leader should be the strongest at least one of the strongest in the clan, since Torune and Fu and great ninjas from their clan, being close to the clan leader or even as strong as them is possible, that leaves Inoichi, Shibi, Yamato, Fu, Torune all pretty close to each other.

to me, Baki one shotting Hayate was pretty impressive, plus fighting Kakashi + Gai + Genma is pretty good even with Kabuto on his side, plus Baki never had any bad fights yet, not saying Yamato can't be stronger, but Baki is pretty good, as long as he stays within the top half of average Jounin Tier, I don't have a problem moving him around.




flee on sight shows Minato is strong, but not how strong. he defeated Tobi, as he in stopped Tobi's plan, but Tobi was the one leaving like nothing happened and Minato was the one left there in fear. and what he did was not more impressive than Konan even before the prep came into play, and dead Itachi did more damage as well. Fu and Torune actually figured out Madara's ability in seconds as well. Minato is a true genius, but that doesn't tell you how strong he is, Orochimaru, Kakashi, 3 Uchiha member in 4th Hokage era are all genius. 3rd Raikage, who is on the strong kage tier, sealed the 8 tail without getting injured himself. Chiyo in mid Kage tier, sealed the 1 tail as well, of course 9 tail is the strongest one, but 8 tail is pretty close, just showing you it can be done.
Minato can't be far off A nearly 20 years ago, and when Minato became Hokage, he was actually the 3rd option, after Orochimaru and Jiraiya, who is the man he desires to fight the most.
it didn't really leave in fear. He was just thinking of how to stop the nine tailed fox, and tobi didn't leave like nothing happened. He retreated because he was damaged and was so scared of taking more he fled the area to avoid being further damaged. Konan has been prepping for years to beat tobi. Minato could probably prep for a day and beat Tobi's ass. 3rd raikage is also very strong, but not smart. Shinobi like Minato would find his weakness within minutes and totally take advantage of it. The hachibi and the 3rd raikage were on par. That means 3rd raikage would most likely lose to the Kyuubi and not be able to seal him. Once again, Minato was considered the most skilled shinobi to ever live. We don't even know what Minato was capable of. Orochimaru barely a very old and washed up 3rd hokage. He could barely fight against 4 tails naruto, who has half the power of the kyuubi so really, that adds up to a 2 tails bijuu. Minato belongs in the super kage tier

GucciBandana
10-17-2011, 01:45 PM
Why is Motoi even there? He doesn't even fight. If you're going to put him and C so high based mainly on tracking skills, then you may as well put Karin up there too.


no not only tracking, but their sensing ability that helps them during a fight, Motoi should be taken off, but C should be kept.


Shin barely did anything though, yeah he may be on Sai's level if we give him all the hype we can but if he's up there then why are Temari, Jugo, Lee etc. not even honorable mentions?


honorable mentions aren't for characters we know a lot, it's for character we don't know much and possible for them to be in that tier, Temari and Lee are both top of weak Jounin list, they can't be in a tier and in honorable mention at the same time.



C doesn't fight either, his only genjutsu shown was meant to be used in teamwork and his medical ninjutsu is best for support; he's mainly a support character. How he gets to be above skilled people who are actually suited for fighting is beyond me.


but genjutsu is a style of fighting, it was an effective genjutsu as well, got Jugo easily. ok C can be lowered but he isn't going lower than that tier, he's shown great genjutsu skills, top level intelligence and good seal knowledge too, medical jutsu are not battle skills but can be used during a 1 on 1 fight, it counts but doesn't count as much as direct fighting skills of course.


Does destroying a forest as a noob mean anything to you?
What matters here with the forest cutting feat is the fact that Katamari took out a huge area of effect and managed to cut down trees which are generally tougher than human flesh. If it was used on fodder ninjas, they'd be screwed too.


it means a little, but like you said, if she uses them on fodders, they'd be screwed, that's if they are fodders. I don't consider this very impressive against anyone jounin level, it just shows destructive power and the damage she can do, that's it. so far we know Temari had destructive wind jutsu and good intelligence, that's it.


Sasori and Deidara weren't even taking Sai very seriously and sat there letting him draw his giant beast things, besides, the fact that they were invincible zombies to begin with means that they probably wouldnt have tried to avoid him anyway.


Sasori and Deidara were impressed, and regardless what their attitudes are, they are Sasori and Deidara, that is impressive.


You just made Suigetsu look less impressive right there. Tanking means you can still fight after taking the attack, and Suigetsu was pretty much done after A punched him. Jugo could still fire lasers at A and was eager to fight more after doing so.


Suigetsu can fight after the punch of A, turning into water is just a way of protecting himself, his arm went back to normal right after. that was considered tanking A's punch.


No I meant that I wasn't aware Suigetsu had a huge source of water with him for this tier. If he does, then he should be wayy higher.


he doesn't get a lake, he just can drink water on a regular basis like he does everyday.


Under unknown circumstances, more or less. Kisame could have been going easy on him (and probably was if you think about it).


Kisame might not be fighting with an intention to kill Suigetsu but I'm sure if he can make Suigetsu realize they are too far apart, he could've done it, and even Sasuke said, "you can't beat him yet"


Jugo wasn't in CS2 and Sasuke stopped the fight before it got anywhere.
See above.


Suigetsu didn't go all out either, it was a short fight but Suigetsu matched Jugo in strength for that moment, which is more impressive for Suigetsu than for Jugo.


Suigetsu's ninjutsu won't do him any good against Jugo's lasers or stamina unless he has a lot of water with him.

I'm not saying Suigetsu will beat Jugo for sure, but he has a better skill set and even compare to Jugo's strong categories Suigetsu isn't far off, fighting anyone not lightning based would make Suigetsu a better fighter than Jugo. that's what makes him above Jugo, not the fact he can defeat Jugo 1 on 1.

it didn't really leave in fear. He was just thinking of how to stop the nine tailed fox, and tobi didn't leave like nothing happened. He retreated because he was damaged and was so scared of taking more he fled the area to avoid being further damaged. Konan has been prepping for years to beat tobi. Minato could probably prep for a day and beat Tobi's ass. 3rd raikage is also very strong, but not smart. Shinobi like Minato would find his weakness within minutes and totally take advantage of it. The hachibi and the 3rd raikage were on par. That means 3rd raikage would most likely lose to the Kyuubi and not be able to seal him. Once again, Minato was considered the most skilled shinobi to ever live. We don't even know what Minato was capable of. Orochimaru barely a very old and washed up 3rd hokage. He could barely fight against 4 tails naruto, who has half the power of the kyuubi so really, that adds up to a 2 tails bijuu. Minato belongs in the super kage tier

saying "Tobi left because he didn't want to get injured" is only what you believe, but I believe he left because there's no need for him to be there no more, he wasn't a fighter to begin with, and his biggest weapon got neutralized, he def wasn't scared of anything, only words he left behind is "you are worth the title of 4th Hokage", I don't see him being scared, I actually see him underestimating Minato at first, and he was in a hurry so Minato got the advantage, enough to ruin his plan.

I agree 3rd Raikage can't beat the fox alone, but Minato can't either, it was very clear, no one has found 3rd Raikage's physically weakness without the knowledge of the scar in decades, we can't assume someone can do so in minutes. plus Minato is above 3rd Raikage in the tier list anyway.
and Minato was never stated to be "the most skilled shinobi ever", Jiraiya and Kakashi praised him a few times in front of Naruto, but nothing saying how strong he is, more of how great he is.
Orochimaru battled 4 tail Naruto in his ill state without going all out, and managed pretty well, just 4 tail Naruto's skin was tougher than he thought. Orochimaru is a lot more versatile than tailed beast, and actually he's one of the few characters can try overpower the tail beasts physically with Hydra.
any Kage should be able to handle the beast in their village, not really overpowering it, but hold it in some way, and from what we've seen, tailed beasts can't really do much to a Kage level ninja, only Kage dying from the beast is Minato.
there hasn't been anything to separate Minato that far above a strong Kage today compare to all da characters in super Kage tier.

Kuromaki
10-18-2011, 04:11 PM
no not only tracking, but their sensing ability that helps them during a fight, Motoi should be taken off, but C should be kept.
C's abilities are purely for support, are you telling me that what he's barely shown puts him above high leveled Jonin? If anything he should be in honorable mentions, but the fact that he's not suited for fighting means he can't hold his own there.
honorable mentions aren't for characters we know a lot, it's for character we don't know much and possible for them to be in that tier, Temari and Lee are both top of weak Jounin list, they can't be in a tier and in honorable mention at the same time.Then maybe you should move them to another tier ... http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

Anyway the only placement I'm focusing on atm is Temari since she's actually a Jonin, you can do what you want with Lee.
but genjutsu is a style of fighting, it was an effective genjutsu as well, got Jugo easily. ok C can be lowered but he isn't going lower than that tier, he's shown great genjutsu skills, top level intelligence and good seal knowledge too, medical jutsu are not battle skills but can be used during a 1 on 1 fight, it counts but doesn't count as much as direct fighting skills of course.
Well as long as he's lowered...

Depends on how the genjutsu is used though, he used it in close range to temporarily blind people so that others could hit them.
it means a little, but like you said, if she uses them on fodders, they'd be screwed, that's if they are fodders. I don't consider this very impressive against anyone jounin level, it just shows destructive power and the damage she can do, that's it. so far we know Temari had destructive wind jutsu and good intelligence, that's it.You can simplify everyone down to that level. All Shin did was... nothing, all Omoi has is like 2 sword techniques, all Kurenai has is one genjutsu, all Samui has is... nothing, how do they get credit but not Temari? Even you admitted that she has destructive jutsu and good intelligence which should be more than enough to get her on that tier, being that some of the people there don't even have either of those qualities.

Temari is one of the few of her peers who actually managed to achieve Jonin rank, and she was hired as one of the Kazekage's bodyguards (naturally because she's his sister but if she weren't useful then she wouldn't be one). She's one of the only ones out of her peers with a summon, one that can bring down large sections of a forest, at that. How she's a weak jonin is beyond me since last I checked the others aren't like super durable.
Sasori and Deidara were impressed, and regardless what their attitudes are, they are Sasori and Deidara, that is impressive.Still doesn't negate what I said, for the most part.
Suigetsu can fight after the punch of A, turning into water is just a way of protecting himself, his arm went back to normal right after. that was considered tanking A's punch.
Oh yeah, that. Still gets vaporized by Jugo's lasers though.
he doesn't get a lake, he just can drink water on a regular basis like he does everyday.If he doesn't get a lake, then Jugo should be on his level somewhere.
Kisame might not be fighting with an intention to kill Suigetsu but I'm sure if he can make Suigetsu realize they are too far apart, he could've done it, and even Sasuke said, "you can't beat him yet"Not sure what that proves other than Suigetsu is currently weaker than Kisame.
Suigetsu didn't go all out either, it was a short fight but Suigetsu matched Jugo in strength for that moment, which is more impressive for Suigetsu than for Jugo.
How do you know?

They were pretty much even when they fought, but as I said, Sasuke stopped them before the real winner could be determined.
I'm not saying Suigetsu will beat Jugo for sure, but he has a better skill set and even compare to Jugo's strong categories Suigetsu isn't far off, fighting anyone not lightning based would make Suigetsu a better fighter than Jugo. that's what makes him above Jugo, not the fact he can defeat Jugo 1 on 1.Welll it depends.

Jugo has some variety in his skill set too, although when you look at it it's just Water Guy vs. Curse Mark Guy.