Spiderman and Iron Fist vs Sasuke and Juugo

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

fight takes place in the kage summit meeting

Mifune has hired them to handle the renegade Uchiha and the Crazy bastard

[321zigzag3]

I can see Sasuke fight Spiderman even terms and even beat at times but anyway. Iron Fist >> CS2 Jugo.

[Rasengan SageX5]

I don't think Sasuke can fight Spidey on even terms. As long as Spidey has high structures and plenty of room to evade, he can just dodge anything Sasuke sends his way thanks to Spider Sense. Spidey also has enough strength to lift 2 tons with a little effort(maybe more, its been awhile since I saw any official stats for Spidey). That means he has more strength than anything "The Sauce" or Juugo can hope to match. I know next to nothing about Iron Fist, so I have nothing to offer to that part of the debate.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Sasuke can't do anything to touch Spidey. Spidey casually dodges all of his attacks till he runs out of chakra and then punches his head off.

[321zigzag3]

I don't think Sasuke can fight Spidey on even terms. As long as Spidey has high structures and plenty of room to evade, he can just dodge anything Sasuke sends his way thanks to Spider Sense. Spidey also has enough strength to lift 2 tons with a little effort(maybe more, its been awhile since I saw any official stats for Spidey). That means he has more strength than anything "The Sauce" or Juugo can hope to match. I know next to nothing about Iron Fist, so I have nothing to offer to that part of the debate.


Sasuke can't do anything to touch Spidey. Spidey casually dodges all of his attacks till he runs out of chakra and then punches his head off.

Which is why he needs MS.

Sasuke has very good movement to fight Spiderman with. The problem is this, Spiderman's sense, reflexes, and his webs. thats why MS is needed.

Anyway we already know who wins this anyway.

[megabbaut]

Spidey solos. They have nothing to hit him with due to him having Hypersonic+ reactions thanks to his spider reflexes, which is sort of Sharingan's things all the way into the future.

Then there's the super strength, the wall climbing, and the fact that he's friends with Superman;).

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Iron fist is the biggest problem here the guy has used Spiderman like a human base ball bat and his chi sense is superior to petes precog..oh and he can steel chi and throw it back at you like Genkai from yu yu hakusho

[321zigzag3]

Spidey solos. They have nothing to hit him with due to him having Hypersonic+ reactions thanks to his spider reflexes, which is sort of Sharingan's things all the way into the future.

Then there's the super strength, the wall climbing, and the fact that he's friends with Superman;).

Spiderman's chance of soloing is not definitely in his favor especially in his base form. sure at his best he has shown possible low hypersonic reactions, but at the same he is infected with comic plot inconsistencies so. Anyway MS is a problem for Sasuke obviously.

Not to mention chidori abilities and this is coming from a guy who doesn't like naruto mains.


Not sure what Jugo is going to do unless he is in CS2.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Spidey can dodge any of Sasuke's Chidori abilities with ease. He might even dodge and then web Sasuke to the wall for kicks.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

I don't see anything being fast enough or wide-spread enough to hit Spidey or Fist. Both have solid reaction feats and precog abilities.

Only hope for the Sauce is Genjutsu, and I'm pretty sure Spidey's mask has reflective lenses to prevent that sort of thing from working (worked in his fight against Dracula's hypnosis, IIRC).

Anyway, Marvel squad just waits until the Sauce is out of chakra or has an opening with which to hump him into submission with. Juugo is really of no use save as a distraction. He's too slow to actually hit anyone.

[321zigzag3]

Spidey can dodge any of Sasuke's Chidori abilities with ease. He might even dodge and then web Sasuke to the wall for kicks.

Chidori Nagashi will help.

I don't see anything being fast enough or wide-spread enough to hit Spidey or Fist. Both have solid reaction feats and precog abilities.

Only hope for the Sauce is Genjutsu, and I'm pretty sure Spidey's mask has reflective lenses to prevent that sort of thing from working (worked in his fight against Dracula's hypnosis, IIRC).

Anyway, Marvel squad just waits until the Sauce is out of chakra or has an opening with which to hump him into submission with. Juugo is really of no use save as a distraction. He's too slow to actually hit anyone.

There is not much Spiderman can do as long Susanoo is out and if Amaterasu hits then well. Thats why I said MS, MS, MS.

But again Sasuke isn't slow himself to be out maneurvered so by spiderman anyway.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Ammy isn't that hard to dodge.

Susano'o sucks chakra like a little kid does chocolate milk through a straw.

Precog means Sasuke can't beat Spidey or Iron in terms of speed or reaction. And webs act as a distraction/physical threat.

[Devils Lawyer]

Rape as long as genjutsu is not taking away. Almost any character capable of destroyin the mind is always tops in my opinion. Me personally I think with cerebro Professor X could mind rape superman. Attacks like that are hard as hell to defend against and 9/10 plot steps in to save characters.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Ammy is a very slowmoving attack unless it is aimed right at the enemy, and since both have form of precognition, it isn't going to work on them. Susanoo, as has been said, drains chakra uber-quickly, so all they have to do is outlast it. Genjutsu could be a problem, but I get the feeling that Iron Fist's chi power might be able to break him and Spidey out of genjutsu.

[Devils Lawyer]

Ammy is a very slowmoving attack unless it is aimed right at the enemy, and since both have form of precognition, it isn't going to work on them. Susanoo, as has been said, drains chakra uber-quickly, so all they have to do is outlast it. Genjutsu could be a problem, but I get the feeling that Iron Fist's chi power might be able to break him and Spidey out of genjutsu.

Spidey's precog is against physical attacks. Nor does it alert him to the type of danger he is in. Also even if ammy is slow moving it an ever burning flame that can't be put out limiting spidey's and Iron fist movements. Don't forget Sasuke could also just use a massive Aoe attack and call it a day. But genjutsu seals the deal.

[sagemaster777]

I would like to point out that Spider-mans spider Sense Is the one thing that can save him from Any Genjutsu, other than his mask lenses which maybe would block it, not sure, anyway Spider-man can break Sasuke's neck with casual webbing, crush his skull with one punch, he doesn't even have to look at sasuke to fight, in fact his eyes can be closed and he can still win. He's faster Stronger has more strength agility its complete Rape.

[Devils Lawyer]

I would like to point out that Spider-mans spider Sense Is the one thing that can save him from Any Genjutsu, other than his mask lenses which maybe would block it, not sure, anyway Spider-man can break Sasuke's neck with casual webbing, crush his skull with one punch, he doesn't even have to look at sasuke to fight, in fact his eyes can be closed and he can still win. He's faster Stronger has more strength agility its complete Rape.



Since when has he ever fought with his eyes closed?

[Rasengan SageX5]

I've seen Spidey dodge attacks that aren't physical. He can sense when a bullet is about to be fired and can effectively make the dodge.

[sagemaster777]

He can Pretty much Be warned of Any Danger Including the Sharingan and its Genjutsu.He's Evaded lots of attacks that he wasn't able to see, including in the Dark.

[Frost ninja]

Iron fist does have telepathy, so he could easily fuse his mind with sasuke's and there goes all of the threat in the battle... Or both Juugo and Saskue, as is seen in Maximum Carnage when he fuses with an entire mob. As for if they can break out, its unlikely they can before Spiderman webs them.

More to the point, he has mental feats that should, in essence, prevent him from being mindraped by genjutsu. Plus he survived a giganuke that would've made "hiroshima look like a sparkler" and came out pretty much unharmed... So I dont see anything really happening to stop him.

[[Shikamaru]]

Kirin and massive fire style have the potential to kill Spiderman inside the restricted battlefield of the Kage Summit.

However with the feats Frost Ninja presented for Iron Fist, tanking a nuke obviously means nothing Sasuke and Juugo have can destroy him.

[Super Sanin 3]

isn't this inside the kage summit meeting area?

[sagemaster777]

Im Pretty sure spider man can Dodge Kirin, he's Dodged point blank Lightning attacks Before,including Lasers and multiple machine guns.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Sasuke wouldn't have the prep time to use Kirin or Fire Style before Spidey or Iron Fist blitz him.

[[Shikamaru]]

Im Pretty sure spider man can Dodge Kirin, he's Dodged point blank Lightning attacks Before,including Lasers and multiple machine guns.
Small arms weapons?

Kirin is at least a half acre radius bomb, it knocked down the temple, which is gigantic compared to the Kage Summit

Predict, Move all he wants, he cannot escape the target area in time

[sagemaster777]

@Rasen sage
That is true. so lets sum this up.
Spidey Can easily Solo By Speed blitzing Or Webbing them Both up.

[[Shikamaru]]

Sasuke wouldn't have the prep time to use Kirin or Fire Style before Spidey or Iron Fist blitz him.

Blitz? How so? Susano protects him entirely.

Also, they'd be busy dodging the fire style he dishes out to the atmosphere. Which is much larger than tiny lazers and bullets

[sagemaster777]

Spider man Can break sasukes neck with Casual Webbing, not to mention he's faster stronger more agile.

Speed Reaction Feats. Lasers. He's Dodging LASERS.http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/feat3ssspeed1wr8.jpg
Dodging the Lightmaster who is LIGHT SPEED.http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/feat31speednm8.jpg
Dodging machine gun fire at point blank range from four guys at once:http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/1534uv.jpg
Spidey Takes Down Speed Demon who is At least Sound Speedhttp://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/28016vj.gif
Spidey takes on multiple superpowered beings at once
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3...15speedpm4.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3185/feat15speedpm4.jpg)
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4...5speed2hu4.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4236/feat15speed2hu4.jpg)
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6...5speed4vq4.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6447/feat15speed4vq4.jpg)
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7...5speed5sh1.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7548/feat15speed5sh1.jpg)

Dodges Ironmans blasts at POINT BLANK RANGE
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9...49speedfq3.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9218/feat49speedfq3.jpg)

Dodges hundreds of shards
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6...44speedod3.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/698/feat44speedod3.jpg)

[Devils Lawyer]

I've seen Spidey dodge attacks that aren't physical. He can sense when a bullet is about to be fired and can effectively make the dodge.

Every attack he has ever dodged all had a physical form. Genjutsu does not. Dodging a bullet and dodging an attack that has no form is two completely different scenarios entirely.

He can Pretty much Be warned of Any Danger Including the Sharingan and its Genjutsu.He's Evaded lots of attacks that he wasn't able to see, including in the Dark.


He has also been hit with hundreds of attacks. Especicially mental and magical attacks. You know attacks with no form. Not to mention him landing an attack on Sasuke and not getting hit with amaterasu not going to happen. But thats not going to happen because he has no way to defeat the genjutsu. Once he is hit all bodily functions are shot.

Iron fist does have telepathy, so he could easily fuse his mind with sasuke's and there goes all of the threat in the battle... Or both Juugo and Saskue, as is seen in Maximum Carnage when he fuses with an entire mob. As for if they can break out, its unlikely they can before Spiderman webs them.

More to the point, he has mental feats that should, in essence, prevent him from being mindraped by genjutsu. Plus he survived a giganuke that would've made "hiroshima look like a sparkler" and came out pretty much unharmed... So I dont see anything really happening to stop him.


The genjutsu would still slow him down. There is still an question mark on him defeating it. Lots of telekinetics have been defeated by stronger abilites.

Genjutsu is only one ability. You think Juugo would be sitting still that entire time. He easily powerful enough to be a distraction against both of them while Sasuke attacks. Then there is the fact both of them have attacks that can give out massive area damage. That eliminates speed entirely. Or he could just use chidori and shoot it at them on a microscopic level.

[sagemaster777]

Spider-Man Has Been Hit, but it all depends on the situation, sometimes He Ignores his spider-sense since it pretty much Effect his Bodies reaction not mental process. and Spider sense> Any type of Genjutsu, not to mention he Can withstand Mysterios Illusions And sasukes genjutsu is nothing compared to it.
Spider Sense Works in all kinds of ways, Making it somewhat precognitive.
Either way Spideys feats are way above sasukes, Webbign him up cancels any other effort except for Genjutsu, and which we already know wont work because spider-sense will tingle and he'll be aware of his sharigan.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Shikamaru, Sasuke won't have the time to launch Fire Style Jutsu into the atmosphere, let alone manipulate the lightning into Kirin. Also if he tried to use Ammy, Susanoo, and Kirin at the same time, he would die from the overuse of chakra.

[Devils Lawyer]

Spider-Man Has Been Hit, but it all depends on the situation, sometimes He Ignores his spider-sense since it pretty much Effect his Bodies reaction not mental process. and Spider sense> Any type of Genjutsu, not to mention he Can withstand Mysterios Illusions And sasukes genjutsu is nothing compared to it.
Spider Sense Works in all kinds of ways, Making it somewhat precognitive.
Either way Spideys feats are way above sasukes, Webbign him up cancels any other effort except for Genjutsu, and which we already know wont work because spider-sense will tingle and he'll be aware of his sharigan.


Lol what spidey sense greater than genjutsu. Negativ first of all mysterios illusions are all natural man made. Genjutsu is a technique that attacks the mind itself and destroys the senses. Can even turn some of the recipients into vegetables. Two different abilities in general. I know spiderman abilities and feats. They are all good but against his major enemies he is often times saved by plot. Spidey has speed, strength, webs, and spidey sense. Not one of those abilities will help him if he were to fight against Sasuke. Webbing would be incerated against ammy. Strength countered by Susanoo. Speed sharigan and genjutsu. In the abilities department he is severely out matched.

Shikamaru, Sasuke won't have the time to launch Fire Style Jutsu into the atmosphere, let alone manipulate the lightning into Kirin. Also if he tried to use Ammy, Susanoo, and Kirin at the same time, he would die from the overuse of chakra.

Sasuke genjutsu speed is every bit as fast spidey reaction time. Since spidey abilities are all natural(meanin no energy or external force needed straight genetic) genjutsu has the edge.

[Frost ninja]

The genjutsu would still slow him down. There is still an question mark on him defeating it. Lots of telekinetics have been defeated by stronger abilites.

Can't use Genjutsu when Iron Fist is cuddling his mind. While Spiderman snaps his neck. Genjutsu is messing with the senses, this guys can project his mind into others. If you genjutsu him, you'll end up applying the same effect to both Juugo and sasuke since they all share a mind now.

Genjutsu is only one ability. You think Juugo would be sitting still that entire time. He easily powerful enough to be a distraction against both of them while Sasuke attacks. Then there is the fact both of them have attacks that can give out massive area damage. That eliminates speed entirely. Or he could just use chidori and shoot it at them on a microscopic level.

Ok...
Iron Fist tanked something that makes Hiroshima, a nuke, look like a sparkler. Are you implying that Sasuke and Juugo, either of them, have anything that would so much as scar Iron Fist? Mind you they aren't going to be doing much with their minds fused to his, or with spiderman webbing everyone. Area of effect doesn't negate speed for a guy with precog who dodges light and lasers, and a guy who is fused mentally with them who can also tank supernukes.

[sagemaster777]

Lol what spidey sense greater than genjutsu. Negativ first of all mysterios illusions are all natural man made. Genjutsu is a technique that attacks the mind itself and destroys the senses. Can even turn some of the recipients into vegetables. Two different abilities in general. I know spiderman abilities and feats. They are all good but against his major enemies he is often times saved by plot. Spidey has speed, strength, webs, and spidey sense. Not one of those abilities will help him if he were to fight against Sasuke. Webbing would be incerated against ammy. Strength countered by Susanoo. Speed sharigan and genjutsu. In the abilities department he is severely out matched.



Sasuke genjutsu speed is every bit as fast spidey reaction time. Since spidey abilities are all natural(meanin no energy or external force needed straight genetic) genjutsu has the edge.
You dont seem to Understand, Spidermans Feats are ABOVE sasuke, meaning he's faster,stronger, more powerful, everything, genjutsu wont be a problem in this match alone or with Iron fist.

Also it doesn't destroy there senses, it Manipulates the flow of chakara in someones Brain Creating Illusions to the Victim. Mysterio is a master hypnotist & prestidigitator and Professional illusionist who uses a combination of robotics, light shows, smoke, mirrors, Gas, and hallucinogenic chemicals to make his victims believe that they are in mortal danger.Its Beyond what Genjutsu can do, and spider-Man can Get through it. also last time i checked spider-man doesn't have chakra.

Spider-man has Webbed a Speedster before, at least fast as sound. he wont have a problem webbing sasuke who isn't close to that speed.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Every attack he has ever dodged all had a physical form. Genjutsu does not. Dodging a bullet and dodging an attack that has no form is two completely different scenarios entirely.[

nonsense he's reacted to attacks from ghosts and interacted with Dr Stranges astral form



He has also been hit with hundreds of attacks. Especicially mental and magical attacks. You know attacks with no form. Not to mention him landing an attack on Sasuke and not getting hit with amaterasu not going to happen. But thats not going to happen because he has no way to defeat the genjutsu. Once he is hit all bodily functions are shot.


spiderman can resist Genjustu his partner can also jack Sasukes chakra or just hit him with enough force to knock hercules down really being majorly superior to spiderman and all



The genjutsu would still slow him down. There is still an question mark on him defeating it. Lots of telekinetics have been defeated by stronger abilites.

IF can AOE

Genjutsu is only one ability. You think Juugo would be sitting still that entire time. He easily powerful enough to be a distraction against both of them while Sasuke attacks. Then there is the fact both of them have attacks that can give out massive area damage. That eliminates speed entirely. Or he could just use chidori and shoot it at them on a microscopic level.

Juugo is a battery to danny
Since when has he ever fought with his eyes closed?

several times he even dodged advanced AI's firing machine guns blind.

Spidey sense physically takes over his body when blind\


Rape as long as genjutsu is not taking away. Almost any character capable of destroyin the mind is always tops in my opinion. Me personally I think with cerebro Professor X could mind rape superman. Attacks like that are hard as hell to defend against and 9/10 plot steps in to save characters.

spidersense prevents low tiers and some mid tiers from raping peter, he'd have it for this to stand a chance

and IF has chi defenses against that stuff to a certain degree

@Rasen sage
That is true. so lets sum this up.
Spidey Can easily Solo By Speed blitzing Or Webbing them Both up.


webbing from range and with speed neither can react too

;5522136']Blitz? How so? Susano protects him entirely.


it;s gonna shatter due to an IF strike

;5522085']
However with the feats Frost Ninja presented for Iron Fist, tanking a nuke obviously means nothing Sasuke and Juugo have can destroy him.

I'm sorry I misunderstood you

Ammy ftw

troll post

[Super Sanin 3]

...I'm sorry did you just imply Sasuke and Juugo can produce greater force than a freaking nuclear bomb? that's the most idiotic post on this forum since nightmare luffy posted ftl falling rocks and planet busting tailed beasts
He said they couldn't :o

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

He said they couldn't :o

I have just edited that my bad! oh man

in any case closed enviornment and the AOE's mean they might have a chance to break the momentum of the other side

keeping IF from just chi blasting the entire building or jacking their energies and keeping peter away are top priorities..maybe I should of added some one else to the mix

[321zigzag3]

Since when Spiderman can blitz Sasuke? :hmm

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Since when Spiderman can blitz Sasuke? :hmm


since he has better reaction time feats and mind boggling superior precog

his movement speed maybe comparable to Sasuke but pete has aim dodged lasers from automated AI's designed to blitz bullet timers form all angles

[sagemaster777]

Not to mention he was able to Web a person at the speed of sound and land a blow on him. React to light speed and take him down, and Tag Quicksilver with his webs and bring him down. if spider-man has no trouble webbing up people that fast(but with a little effort), Then he'll have no trouble webbing up sasuke then snapping his neck, or breaking his skull with his fist.

[Devils Lawyer]

nonsense he's reacted to attacks from ghosts and interacted with Dr Stranges astral form

All beings who gave off some type of attack pattern that could be seen. Speaking of strange do you not remember he was mind raped by Mephisto on several occasions and Strange was the one who saved him. Lets all move into characters like prof X who also invade minds and had at their mercy. He can barely handle Mysterios illusions let alone something on the level of genjutsu.







spiderman can resist Genjustu his partner can also jack Sasukes chakra or just hit him with enough force to knock hercules down really being majorly superior to spiderman and all



Never would happen. First of lets be realistic the speed of Sasuke genjutsu is kinda up there in the ability projection speed. It is the department of thought speed along with other mental abilities. Then there is the fact you seem to think that spiderman or Iron fist can't be slowed down by Juugo. Yes they have better strength feats but it doesn't mean necessarily mean that his attacks are useless. Considering they have both been hit with weaker attacks than his which sent them sprawling.



IF can AOE

Whats stopping it nothing at all. Alot slower attacks have landed on spidey. His peak speed feats are tops. But starting off speed is ok. But its only after he has gained momentum with his web is when he truly shines.

Juugo is a battery to danny
You do know that Juugo could absorb him to. The difference is he would die.


several times he even dodged advanced AI's firing machine guns blind.

Spidey sense physically takes over his body when blind\



Firing machines that fire in a straight line. Not to mention if he does that he gets hit with a larger ammy or katon.



spidersense prevents low tiers and some mid tiers from raping peter, he'd have it for this to stand a chance

and IF has chi defenses against that stuff to a certain degree



Spidersense is in no way infallible it is not not complete foresight. It alerts him and he uses his incredible speed and reflexes to react. But there are several attacks that would completely overwhelm it.

That is a yes Iron Fist could probably counter. There is no definete on that though. A energy manipulation Narutoverse is better. But anyways you already know that second he takes to counter he would die. As you know thats how Sasuke and top tier Naruto characters fight.


webbing from range and with speed neither can react too



Webbing will do what exactly against a fire user. Then there is this assumption that the sharigan can't keep up with spidey's movements.


it;s gonna shatter due to an IF strike



Opens him up for an AOE.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Spidey once showed that he can make a special type of web fluid that is mostly fire-proof. That would counter Sasuke's Fire Style if he got the chance to use it.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

All beings who gave off some type of attack pattern that could be seen

by people who can see ghosts


]Speaking of strange do you not remember he was mind raped by Mephisto on several occasions and Strange was the one who saved him.

mpehisto stands in front of the strongest Uchihas to ever exist and lets them mind rape him he then thinks 'kill yourselves' and they obey

Mephisto can mind rape spidey..sasuke who is a joke would not even be a mid tier telepath in marvel cannot


Lets all move into characters like prof X who also invade minds and had at their mercy. He can barely handle Mysterios illusions let alone something on the level of genjutsu.



did you just compare sasuke to prof X and magneto? wooooww and Genjutsu isn't impressive at all





Never would happen. First of lets be realistic the speed of Sasuke genjutsu is kinda up there in the ability projection speed.

why IF makes the Raikage look like a turtle Sasuke is a statue to him

It is the department of thought speed along with other mental abilities. Then there is the fact you seem to think that spiderman or Iron fist can't be slowed down by Juugo.

spiderman can be slowed by juugo IF is turning him into soup


Yes they have better strength feats but it doesn't mean necessarily mean that his attacks are useless. Considering they have both been hit with weaker attacks than his which sent them sprawling.

Iron fist while weakened and depowered from Chi solo'd the wrecking crew guys that give hercules and Gilgamesh problems




Whats stopping it nothing at all. Alot slower attacks have landed on spidey. His peak speed feats are tops. But starting off speed is ok. But its only after he has gained momentum with his web is when he truly shines.

considering pete has gone from stationary to precog aim timing blasts from Torch and thousands of machine guns?


You do know that Juugo could absorb him to. The difference is he would die.


why would Danny die? He's dealt with far worse before


Firing machines that fire in a straight line. Not to mention if he does that he gets hit with a larger ammy or katon.

no they covered every direction conceivable in a room about the size of an office


Spidersense is in no way infallible it is not not complete foresight. It alerts him and he uses his incredible speed and reflexes to react. But there are several attacks that would completely overwhelm it.

no it isn't infallible even Atreides precog from Dune which could lock step an entire universe in a single pattern for thousands of years isn't infallible of course spider sense wont be

but it is superior to the sharingan

That is a yes Iron Fist could probably counter. There is no definete on that though. A energy manipulation Narutoverse is better. But anyways you already know that second he takes to counter he would die. As you know thats how Sasuke and top tier Naruto characters fight.

energy manipulation in the naruto universe is superior to a person who can use his chi to take control of the EM spectrum to a limited degree regenerate damage, steel and redirect other forms of energy..purify radiation in his body by transmutating it to harmless radiation a trick he learned by watching Magneto some one with a radically different power set

really? he is out of his league here? a guy who can knock a thor class fighter on his but and give him a slight bruise with a chi strike?


Webbing will do what exactly against a fire user. Then there is this assumption that the sharigan can't keep up with spidey's movements.

it's held back Johnny's fire a bit and restrained the thing and hulk for a few seconds

it can hold up to ammy just fine

[321zigzag3]

since he has better reaction time feats and mind boggling superior precog

I can accept this answer.

his movement speed maybe comparable to Sasuke but pete has aim dodged lasers from automated AI's designed to blitz bullet timers form all angles

Spiderman is above supersonic in movement? :hmm

No one ever says that.



Not to mention he was able to Web a person at the speed of sound and land a blow on him.

Speed of sound is not amazing to Naruto Top tiers reactions.


React to light speed No.

[sagemaster777]

Are you saying sasuke is a fast as the speed of sound? you must be nuts :lol:

Let me break down Spider-sense: Spider-sense EFFECTS his Bodies reaction, If he wants to ignore it He Has to put some stress into it using his mind, it was even showed in one of the comics how he was dealing with trying to ignore it so that he could land a punch at the right time During a Blitz attack on him.He used spider-sense to tell how many fingers mary jane was holding up. There's many times spider-man allows Blows and hits on him, either because he ignores his spider-sense in multiple situations because of being concerned about Something more important like his aunt may, because he's planning out a attack, Or due to Plot and development. As soon as spider-man comes into battle you can already see his speed and reaction, he doesn't start out slow, he's always top in reaction reflexes and speed.

Next About Marvel mind rape, there have been many times Spider-man has Easily Broken out of his illusions, then times when he hasn't, but you'll have to understand that isn't nothing like Sharingan, its totally different. Marvel mind rape is on a different lvl. and Mysterio can create Illusions in many ways, not by simple eye sight. he can even effect the person in the Real world, better yet effect multiple people.

And don't even compare Muphisto to Him, He's a Demon who posses A Magic Force. Genjutsu Cannot and will not be compared to these 2.

Spider-man Shoots a web at sasuke and Snaps his neck.

I can accept this answer.



Spiderman is above supersonic in movement? :hmm

No one ever says that.





Speed of sound is not amazing to Naruto Top tiers reactions.


No.
Look at my scans, He went up against someone Made out of LIGHT. do i really need to explain that?

[Super Sanin 3]

Didn't Sasuke get naruto and sakura outside of that sound guy's blast wayyy early in the series while he was in CM Level 1?

[321zigzag3]

Are you saying sasuke is a fast as the speed of sound? you must be nuts :lol:

At least in short bursts at the very least in shunshin, sure why not?
Does it sound wrong to you my friend? :ugeek:

In a superhuman manga series, such things must be accepted with vast suspension of disbelief. Its just how it is. Ask Iimmortal Watchdog.


He kept up with Raikage in movement, he was fast enough not to get blitzed in movement until Raikage entered V2 shroud.

Unless of course Raikage isn't supersonic+ to you either.

Look at my scans, He went up against someone Made out of LIGHT. do i really need to explain that?
Which one again? Although it sounds like plot induced to me.

Seriously, Spiderman gets beaten up and hit by attacks much much slower

And you call me nuts?


Didn't Sasuke get naruto and sakura outside of that sound guy's blast wayyy early in the series while he was in CM Level 1?

Well technically yes although Zaku's airwaves are supposed to be supersonic he claims it so.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I can accept this answer.



Spiderman is above supersonic in movement? :hmm

No one ever says that.

His body has made mid air course corrections and twists and bends to dodge thousands of rounds of ammo he's appeared invisible to Shang Chi a high, high end bullet timer




Speed of sound is not amazing to Naruto Top tiers reactions.


No.

it hardly matters Sasuke could barely reacted to the raikage if at all and the Raikage would not be able to see IF move much less react to him

edit Zaku's airwaves are not supersonic that's a narrative hyperbole

[sagemaster777]

At least in short bursts at the very least in shunshin, sure why not?
Does it sound wrong to you my friend? :ugeek:

In a superhuman manga series, such things must be accepted with vast suspension of disbelief. Its just how it is. Ask Iimmortal Watchdog.


He kept up with Raikage in movement, he was fast enough not to get blitzed in movement until Raikage entered V2 shroud.

Unless of course Raikage isn't supersonic+ to you either.

[COLOR=#00bfff]
Which one again? Although it sounds like plot induced to me.

Seriously, Spiderman gets beaten up and hit by attacks much much slower

And you call me nuts?




Well technically yes although Zaku's airwaves are supposed to be supersonic he claims it so.You Must not know what speed of sound is then honestly.

Super Human? There Ninja's with chakara :lol:

Ive already told you this, Spider-man Can and has ignored his spider-sense in situations, and lots of times let his Enemy Hit him According to his plans.Im pretty sure the people spider-man fights have speed above Naruto :/ so comparing slower characters with attacks to spider-man that can blitz sasuke is pointless.
http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/28016vj.gif
He's At least speed of sound. Spider-man Let Him Hit him and Could have easily Avoided them. You Can't downgrade Someone Who's shown Feats of Taking Down light speed characters and Dodging point blank machine guns and lasers.Sasuke cant do any of that.
EDIT: Either way sasuke is screwed. He's Precog so Spider-man Can easily Blitz him in this, even without webs.
And Yes He's made out of Light, although his clones did slow him down he still has Great reaction fewats.

[321zigzag3]

His body has made mid air course corrections and twists and bends to dodge thousands of rounds of ammo he's appeared invisible to Shang Chi a high, high end bullet timer

Alright then. Is this more of high end or usual?

it hardly matters Sasuke could barely reacted to the raikage if at all and the Raikage would not be able to see IF move much less react to him

Sasuke reacted to V1 Raikage fine Watchdog, its V2 that really blitzed him.

edit Zaku's airwaves are not supersonic that's a narrative hyperbole

Considering the way the manga went and how Kisame stated supersonic speeds are rare in the manga, its probably so.

You Must not know what speed of sound is then honestly.

Is that all you can muster in counter response?

Speed of sound is 343 m/s on the ground in general.


Super Human? There Ninja's with chakara :lol:

http://community.us.playstation.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-36123873-12283/NotSureIfSerious.jpg
Yeah Ninjas with chakra that do superhuman physical feats.

Where have you been since chapter 1? And you call me nuts? Thats incredibly ironic.


Ive already told you this, Spider-man Can and has ignored his spider-sense in situations, and lots of times let his Enemy Hit him According to his plans.Im pretty sure the people spider-man fights have speed above Naruto :/ so comparing slower characters with attacks to spider-man that can blitz sasuke is pointless.

Not all fighters in Spiderman rogue gallery are above sound. In fact many tend to not so at all. Anyway, Immortal Watchdog answered my question on Spiderman's reaction, also yes you reminded even more how dangerous the webs are so. I slightly forgot you see. I'll give you rep for that.

Which is why you didn't see me respond to most of your post.




He's At least speed of sound. Spider-man Let Him Hit him and Could have easily Avoided them. You Can't downgrade Someone Who's shown Feats of Taking Down light speed characters and Dodging point blank machine guns and lasers.Sasuke cant do any of that.
EDIT: Either way sasuke is screwed. He's Precog so Spider-man Can easily Blitz him in this, even without webs.
And Yes He's made out of Light, although his clones did slow him down he still has Great reaction fewats.


It is true Spiderman sometimes lets himself get hit but not all the time. Its in his nature to evade attacks not tank like lol juggernaut.
Cmon now.

Thats why I was talking about MS earlier anyway. If we use Spiderman's low end feats, sasuke without MS is enough. But with mid or higher, I suggested MS, Susanno especially in mind, now because Immortal Watchdog brought it all up his insane reactions.

It doens't matter that much because Team Naruto loses pretty badly. CS2 Jugo has only his chakra cannon going for him, and how long thats going to save him?

Made out of light means automatic lightspeed in movement?http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif

What's the characters name?

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Alright then. Is this more of high end or usual?

no it's consistent the man laser times when auto mated weapons with advanced AI's made to take out bullet timers shoot at him..from every direction in a square room..

He tries to be mindful of his surroundings as Spidersense can be instinctual and literally jerk his body in one direction to evade..which I would imagine isn't pleasant..he's fought entire battles against armed enemies with auto matic machine guns blind on pure spidey sense...even with out it he's pretty fast

hell even now sans spidey sense the guys insanely fast and to avoid low end showing abuse I'm sporting him his precog


Sasuke reacted to V1 Raikage fine Watchdog, its V2 that really blitzed him.



my point was that it's debatable the Raikage himself would even be able to perceive Danny's movements much less Sasuke who was made to be a helpless child by the guys speed

[Devils Lawyer]

by people who can see ghosts




mpehisto stands in front of the strongest Uchihas to ever exist and lets them mind rape him he then thinks 'kill yourselves' and they obey

Mephisto can mind rape spidey..sasuke who is a joke would not even be a mid tier telepath in marvel cannot






did you just compare sasuke to prof X and magneto? wooooww and Genjutsu isn't impressive at all







why IF makes the Raikage look like a turtle Sasuke is a statue to him



spiderman can be slowed by juugo IF is turning him into soup




Iron fist while weakened and depowered from Chi solo'd the wrecking crew guys that give hercules and Gilgamesh problems


.

considering pete has gone from stationary to precog aim timing blasts from Torch and thousands of machine guns?




why would Danny die? He's dealt with far worse before



no they covered every direction conceivable in a room about the size of an office



no it isn't infallible even Atreides precog from Dune which could lock step an entire universe in a single pattern for thousands of years isn't infallible of course spider sense wont be

but it is superior to the sharingan



energy manipulation in the naruto universe is superior to a person who can use his chi to take control of the EM spectrum to a limited degree regenerate damage, steel and redirect other forms of energy..purify radiation in his body by transmutating it to harmless radiation a trick he learned by watching Magneto some one with a radically different power set

really? he is out of his league here? a guy who can knock a thor class fighter on his but and give him a slight bruise with a chi strike?




it's held back Johnny's fire a bit and restrained the thing and hulk for a few seconds

it can hold up to ammy just fine

First of all regardless of what you are getting at spidey does not have any mental powers. Not now anyways. So unless you got proof he has an ability that can block genjutsu this part of the debate is dead. Next I didnt compare sasuke to prof x and magneto. I compared the situtation of how the vastly superior juggernaut can be mindraped without his helmet. Same goes for magneto since you brought him up. Doesnt mean they are weak it just mean they cant defend against mental abilities. Sasuke abilities are way more advanced than iron fist. As is Naruto come every ability that iron fist has used someone in naruto has done it. Let me remind you that mostly Iron fist and Spiderman both mainly fight regular humans. So are you saying that a regular human thug in marvel can hurt them but Sasuke and Juugo can't.

[sagemaster777]

Alright then. Is this more of high end or usual?



Sasuke reacted to V1 Raikage fine Watchdog, its V2 that really blitzed him.



Considering the way the manga went and how Kisame stated supersonic speeds are rare in the manga, its probably so.



Is that all you can muster in counter response?

Speed of sound is 343 m/s on the ground in general.

Since when can sasuke run that fast?


http://community.us.playstation.com/servlet/JiveServlet/downloadImage/2-36123873-12283/NotSureIfSerious.jpg
Yeah Ninjas with chakra that do superhuman physical feats.

Where have you been since chapter 1? And you call me nuts? Thats incredibly ironic.
You Can't compare Naruto characters to Marvel Super Humans though



Not all fighters in Spiderman rogue gallery are above sound. In fact many tend to not so at all. Anyway, Immortal Watchdog answered my question on Spiderman's reaction, also yes you reminded even more how dangerous the webs are so. I slightly forgot you see. I'll give you rep for that.

Which is why you didn't see me respond to most of your post.
So? Spider-mans Reaction speed and reflexes is above sasuke's, end of story



It is true Spiderman sometimes lets himself get hit but not all the time. Its in his nature to evade attacks not tank like lol juggernaut.
Cmon now.
LolWut? He Knocked out Bulldozer, idk what your talking about, but if you want power and strength Feats he can lift 40 Tons. nothing sasuke can do.
Thats why I was talking about MS earlier anyway. If we use Spiderman's low end feats, sasuke without MS is enough. But with mid or higher, I suggested MS, Susanno especially in mind, now because Immortal Watchdog brought it all up his insane reactions.
Low end feats? What exactly are his low end feats? sasuke without MS is already screwed don't you understand that? He Can blitz him in this situation,he's done it to plenty people Way faster than sasuke and the narutoverse. Marvel is on a whole different scale my friend.
It doens't matter that much because Team Naruto loses pretty badly. CS2 Jugo has only his chakra cannon going for him, and how long thats going to save him?

Made out of light means automatic lightspeed in movement?http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif

What's the characters name?
/Facepalm
Why do you think its called LIGHT speed?
his names light master, he travels at light speed.

In Blue
First of all regardless of what you are getting at spidey does not have any mental powers. Not now anyways. So unless you got proof he has an ability that can block genjutsu this part of the debate is dead. Next I didnt compare sasuke to prof x and magneto. I compared the situtation of how the vastly superior juggernaut can be mindraped without his helmet. Same goes for magneto since you brought him up. Doesnt mean they are weak it just mean they cant defend against mental abilities. Sasuke abilities are way more advanced than iron fist. As is Naruto come every ability that iron fist has used someone in naruto has done it. Let me remind you that mostly Iron fist and Spiderman both mainly fight regular humans. So are you saying that a regular human thug in marvel can hurt them but Sasuke and Juugo can't.
For the last Time Spider-sense.
It makes him aware of the Genjutsu. Also Regular Humans??? Almost everyone they fight has Super Powers. This i just dont understand :lol:
EDIT: also remember he doesn't have chakara, so that already mean no genjutsu.

[Devils Lawyer]

In Blue

For the last Time Spider-sense.
It makes him aware of the Genjutsu. Also Regular Humans??? Almost everyone they fight has Super Powers. This i just dont understand :lol:
EDIT: also remember he doesn't have chakara, so that already mean no genjutsu.


So tell me how do you dodge a look. Tell me why would he close his eyes and not look at Sasuke. No chakra wouldn't stop it. Considering genjutsu works on regular humans. I even got proof of that if you want. Not everyone they fight has super powers. They fight crime that is what they are known for. Every so often there are thugs that get the drop on them. I will use a roided up king pin as an example. He beats the hell out of spidey. Juugo has better strength feats than him.(fisk not spidey) Same goes for Iron fist.

[sagemaster777]

So tell me how do you dodge a look. Tell me why would he close his eyes and not look at Sasuke. No chakra wouldn't stop it. Considering genjutsu works on regular humans. I even got proof of that if you want. Not everyone they fight has super powers. They fight crime that is what they are known for. Every so often there are thugs that get the drop on them. I will use a roided up king pin as an example. He beats the hell out of spidey. Juugo has better strength feats than him.(fisk not spidey) Same goes for Iron fist.
Your not understanding what were saying.
Spider-man Fought while he was BLIND, in the DARK, was unable to see, but thnx to his abilities and PRECOG He was still able to Fight at tops.
Precog Cancels out his Gentusu because He's Already aware that it's a Illusion he's trying to put on him.
Dude, Everyone in Naruto Has chakara, spider-man is outside the Naruto Universe :lol: Genjutsu Effects CHAKARA!
Why would that matter though? He Fights Powerful villians on a daily basis and Stops Basic Crime, he does both.
You really need to read the comic, because spidey has no problem dealing with thugs, and the king pin he is incredibly strong and durable, possessing remarkable strength concealed by his somewhat corpulent appearance. He has been shown to be strong enough to hurl people across a room,ripping limbs from people (demonstrated under a handshake), crush a man's skull with his bare hands, leave imprints in concrete walls after punching them.Most of his body mass is actually muscle that has been built to extraordinary size, much like a Sumo Wrestler and he is almost as strong as it is physically possible for an ordinary human to be
Jugo cant Lift 40 Tons Or beyond.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9624/feat46strength8uh7.jpgHe lifted the daily Bugle.
Spider-man took punches from the hulk and survived.
He knocked out Bulldozer and im pretty sure his other friend who absorbed alien metal.
Then he Beat up Mrs.Marvel
Took on the X-men and Made them look like Fools.
Spider-man fights people way stronger than Naruto characters.

[Frost ninja]

... Why did everyone ignore my post...?


*ahem*




The genjutsu would still slow him down. There is still an question mark on him defeating it. Lots of telekinetics have been defeated by stronger abilites.

Can't use Genjutsu when Iron Fist is cuddling his mind. While Spiderman snaps his neck. Genjutsu is messing with the senses, this guys can project his mind into others. If you genjutsu him, you'll end up applying the same effect to both Juugo and sasuke since they all share a mind now.

Genjutsu is only one ability. You think Juugo would be sitting still that entire time. He easily powerful enough to be a distraction against both of them while Sasuke attacks. Then there is the fact both of them have attacks that can give out massive area damage. That eliminates speed entirely. Or he could just use chidori and shoot it at them on a microscopic level.

Ok...
Iron Fist tanked something that makes Hiroshima, a nuke, look like a sparkler. Are you implying that Sasuke and Juugo, either of them, have anything that would so much as scar Iron Fist? Mind you they aren't going to be doing much with their minds fused to his, or with spiderman webbing everyone. Area of effect doesn't negate speed for a guy with precog who dodges light and lasers, and a guy who is fused mentally with them who can also tank supernukes.

[sagemaster777]

XD im so sorry Frost ninja. the stage is yours.

[Devils Lawyer]

... Why did everyone ignore my post...?


*ahem*


Ok...
Iron Fist tanked something that makes Hiroshima, a nuke, look like a sparkler. Are you implying that Sasuke and Juugo, either of them, have anything that would so much as scar Iron Fist? Mind you they aren't going to be doing much with their minds fused to his, or with spiderman webbing everyone. Area of effect doesn't negate speed for a guy with precog who dodges light and lasers, and a guy who is fused mentally with them who can also tank supernukes.

I know what Iron fist has tanked. Doesn't mean he can't be hurt or winded by someone of Juugo. I swear people love taking character legendary feats and making that the norm. Spiderman fought against the hulk. Doesn't change the fact that he still has problem with just fighting King pin. Dodging lasers and bullets from automatic machines. Can anyone say Batman? Moving in a straight line combined with the fact his spider sense warned him and incredible reactions. It should be cakewalk with his abilities dodge them.
Your not understanding what were saying.
Spider-man Fought while he was BLIND, in the DARK, was unable to see, but thnx to his abilities and PRECOG He was still able to Fight at tops.
Precog Cancels out his Gentusu because He's Already aware that it's a Illusion he's trying to put on him.
Dude, Everyone in Naruto Has chakara, spider-man is outside the Naruto Universe :lol: Genjutsu Effects CHAKARA!
Why would that matter though? He Fights Powerful villians on a daily basis and Stops Basic Crime, he does both.
You really need to read the comic, because spidey has no problem dealing with thugs, and the king pin he is incredibly strong and durable, possessing remarkable strength concealed by his somewhat corpulent appearance. He has been shown to be strong enough to hurl people across a room,ripping limbs from people (demonstrated under a handshake), crush a man's skull with his bare hands, leave imprints in concrete walls after punching them.Most of his body mass is actually muscle that has been built to extraordinary size, much like a Sumo Wrestler and he is almost as strong as it is physically possible for an ordinary human to be
Jugo cant Lift 40 Tons Or beyond.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9624/feat46strength8uh7.jpgHe lifted the daily Bugle.
Spider-man took punches from the hulk and survived.
He knocked out Bulldozer and im pretty sure his other friend who absorbed alien metal.
Then he Beat up Mrs.Marvel
Took on the X-men and Made them look like Fools.
Spider-man fights people way stronger than Naruto characters.


First of all not everyone in Naruto has chakra. Next chakra is equivalent to chi which is what Iron fist uses. Read the bg rules sometime. Spiderman has never had the ability to break out of an illusion or astral attacks etc. Outside forces almost always helped him that situation. Also I know what SSpidey has did. Doesn't change the fact he still can't take a bullet and be alright. He can't get shocked and be alright.(electro) Also I guess the fact that he has been almost sliced to pieces on many different occasion doesn't matter.

Meanwhile Sasuke has fought a person who took enough penatration to the chest and didn't flinch. Not only that everytime A threw a punch it left huge craters. Sasuke Susanoo tanked. Only times spidey shows that type of strength is when the story dictates it. This is the reason why often times I regret debating this type of thread. The mechanics of both universes are severely different. The same feat in one universe does not eqaul the same in another.

[sagemaster777]

I know what Iron fist has tanked. Doesn't mean he can't be hurt or winded by someone of Juugo. I swear people love taking character legendary feats and making that the norm. Spiderman fought against the hulk. Doesn't change the fact that he still has problem with just fighting King pin. Dodging lasers and bullets from automatic machines. Can anyone say Batman? Moving in a straight line combined with the fact his spider sense warned him and incredible reactions. It should be cakewalk with his abilities dodge them.


First of all not everyone in Naruto has chakra. Next chakra is equivalent to chi which is what Iron fist uses. Read the bg rules sometime. Spiderman has never had the ability to break out of an illusion or astral attacks etc. Outside forces almost always helped him that situation. Also I know what SSpidey has did. Doesn't change the fact he still can't take a bullet and be alright. He can't get shocked and be alright.(electro) Also I guess the fact that he has been almost sliced to pieces on many different occasion doesn't matter.

Meanwhile Sasuke has fought a person who took enough penatration to the chest and didn't flinch. Not only that everytime A threw a punch it left huge craters. Sasuke Susanoo tanked. Only times spidey shows that type of strength is when the story dictates it. This is the reason why often times I regret debating this type of thread. The mechanics of both universes are severely different. The same feat in one universe does not eqaul the same in another.
Also Dodging Lasers and machine gun at POINT BLANK is an Impressive feat, something sasuke can't do.

Everyone does have chakra, it's apart of there Bodies natural Energy.Chakara isn't something you try to Get, its something you learn how to control.
Spider-man has Broken out of Illusions, whatever your talking about is only false and is not proven, ive already proven everything. Spider-sense alerts him whats about to happen, making it Precog, which is why Genjutsu Won't work.
Now your just assuming Things. Spider-man can take a Bullet and live,everyone Can, Unless your talking about straight to the heart, thats why its called Reaction and dodge. Sasuke Cant dodge a Point blank Bullet making spider-man better in reaction.He's taking Electro's Hits and lived to, including the Hulk and lots lots of Other people.
Idk what you mean by sliced, but Spider man has easily reacted to things like that,i don't have to show you the cans or say it anymore.
Spider-mans Power is always the same my friend, idk where your getting at with it. Spider-man doesn't have elemental powers though, or whatever sasuke has, but he's stronger and more powerful with his attacks, even if there just hits he's taken down way stronger opponents.
Thats why spider-man and Iron fist win this, there feats are on a whole different lvl.

[Frost ninja]

I know what Iron fist has tanked. Doesn't mean he can't be hurt or winded by someone of Juugo. I swear people love taking character legendary feats and making that the norm. Spiderman fought against the hulk. Doesn't change the fact that he still has problem with just fighting King pin. Dodging lasers and bullets from automatic machines. Can anyone say Batman? Moving in a straight line combined with the fact his spider sense warned him and incredible reactions. It should be cakewalk with his abilities dodge them.



Mind you, if we agree with what you say then we should take base Juugo as the norm rather than V2 feats since we arent counting the top.
Juugo isnt winding a guy who is cuddling with his mind, and he sure as hell isnt doing anything with spiderwebbing on him. Tanking a nuke is tanking a nuke, you can't downplay that. Juugo and Sasuke are far below even coming close to a nuke, so in turn Iron Fist should be tanking it. High end feats, yes, but he didn't have anything special about him when he did it.

[321zigzag3]

About that genjutsu thing, spiderman has resisted low level illusions before with ease.

By the way which Spiderman is this? Is this the regular base Spiderman the one with 10 - 20 ton normal range of strength?

no it's consistent the man laser times when auto mated weapons with advanced AI's made to take out bullet timers shoot at him..from every direction in a square room..


Now that you think about it, I am starting to remember some of spiderman's reactions.

my point was that it's debatable the Raikage himself would even be able to perceive Danny's movements much less Sasuke who was made to be a helpless child by the guys speed

Considering V1 Raikage was already doing good speed, but anyway.

Since when can sasuke run that fast?

He kept up with Raikage regular shroud in speed. Killerbee in movement for some time.

You Can't compare Naruto characters to Marvel Super Humans though

Don't shift your stance. You questioned the existance of Naruto superhumans, at least you made it sound that way. I understand why you may facepalm at me at the light guy, the difference is, I was not aware of his existance, for something like Naruto superhumans you should have known that from some time.

Anyway no you cannot compare naruto superhumans in 90% of the scenarios, certainly not with Sasuke anyway but thats not the point.

So? Spider-mans Reaction speed and reflexes is above sasuke's, end of story

The heck is wrong with you, I was agreeing with you on most things.
Thats why I was talking about MS earlier but anyway.

LolWut? He Knocked out Bulldozer, idk what your talking about, but if you want power and strength Feats he can lift 40 Tons. nothing sasuke can do.

Completely irrelevent what I said earlier. I said this Spiderman tends to evade not tank. He can tank well but its not in his nature to do so.

40 tons strength? Is that Base Spiderman now? I originally thought it was 15-20 tons. I need to reupdate on spiderman.

Low end feats? What exactly are his low end feats? sasuke without MS is already screwed don't you understand that? He Can blitz him in this situation,he's done it to plenty people Way faster than sasuke and the narutoverse. Marvel is on a whole different scale my friend.


Spiderman as with any marvel character has high to low end feats.
(not extreme for him though)
An example of very high end, him beating fire lord for example.

Low end feats involve him get beat up situations quite lower in speed or such from the laser evasions and such.
Now immortal watchdog tells me the bullet evasion is normal, which I can easily believe because it makes sense, but even with that, he has losing scenarios which he should not be losing.

You don't know that comic characters have inconsistencies too? Not saying Naruto does not, but compared to comic books no, then again DC has it more, and anime pokemon has it even worse than them.

Obviously MArvel > Naruto. Marvel is top tier, one of the strongest. Narutoverse is just low tier fiction. Vast difference.

/Facepalm
Why do you think its called LIGHT speed?
his names light master, he travels at light speed

I guess Kizaru is always lightspeed too then? :)

Not al light people travel at light speed. STrange I know but its also the weird thing about fiction. Don't blame for it.

Also don't faceplam at me please which I understand why, but you made couple of ignorant statements so lets both take deep breaths alright.
the last Time Spider-sense.
It makes him aware of the Genjutsu. Also Regular Humans??? Almost everyone they fight has Super Powers. This i just dont understand :lol:
EDIT: also remember he doesn't have chakara, so that already mean no genjutsu.


Equivalence rule will mean genjutsu will affect just 5 senses I believe but anyway.

[sagemaster777]

About that genjutsu thing, spiderman has resisted low level illusions before with ease.

By the way which Spiderman is this? Is this the regular base Spiderman the one with 10 - 20 ton normal range of strength?
i wouldn't call them low, the fact that mysterio is a master at illusions Hypnosis and chemicals, and Mephisto a Demon with the force of magic. it be much easier for him to break out of genjutsu, with the fact he has a partner who can easily break him out of it, but knowing the fact he has either resisted fought or even completely ignore Illusions is a good enough feat, aside from spidey sense kicking in before the illusion is cast.


Now that you think about it, I am starting to remember some of spiderman's reactions.
At one point it seem'd like faster than the human eye could keep up with him based on a scan i saw

Considering V1 Raikage was already doing good speed, but anyway.


He kept up with Raikage regular shroud in speed. Killerbee in movement for some time.
Hmmm, still, im going off of the fact he's fought people faster than sasuke.
Don't shift your stance. You questioned the existance of Naruto superhumans, at least you made it sound that way.
At first it seem'd like a compare towards marvel super humans, so im at fault
I understand why you may facepalm at me at the light guy, the difference is, I was not aware of his existance, for something like Naruto superhumans you should have known that from some time. Well basically he was turned into Light and can travel at light speed, just confirming this.
Anyway no you cannot compare naruto superhumans in 90% of the scenarios, certainly not with Sasuke anyway but thats not the point.



The heck is wrong with you, I was agreeing with you on most things.
Thats why I was talking about MS earlier but anyway.

that was aimed at your first sentence >_> sorry.

Completely irrelevent what I said earlier. I said this Spiderman tends to evade not tank. He can tank well but its not in his nature to do so. you confused me, it sounded like at first you said tank the juggernaut.
Spider-man can Do hard damage though. Certainly he has more Physical power than sasuke enough to kill him in one Punch.

40 tons strength? Is that Base Spiderman now? I originally thought it was 15-20 tons. I need to reupdate on spiderman.
Yep its base, he even lifted a tank with ease.

Spiderman as with any marvel character has high to low end feats.
(not extreme for him though)
An example of very high end, him beating fire lord for example.

Low end feats involve him get beat up situations quite lower in speed or such from the laser evasions and such.
Now immortal watchdog tells me the bullet evasion is normal, which I can easily believe because it makes sense, but even with that, he has losing scenarios which he should not be losing.
True, but it all depends on whats happening in the story.
It's normal for spider-man, Dodging a Bullet at point blank, then stepping up to 4 machine guns at point blank, then lasers point blank, then hundreds of non stop lasers all over your body being evaded, casual lightning dodge, that makes spider-man Really Really fast in reaction, Its also thnx to precog though for this.
You don't know that comic characters have inconsistencies too? Not saying Naruto does not, but compared to comic books no, then again DC has it more, and anime pokemon has it even worse than them.

Obviously MArvel > Naruto. Marvel is top tier, one of the strongest. Narutoverse is just low tier fiction. Vast difference.



I guess Kizaru is always lightspeed too then? :)

Not al light people travel at light speed. STrange I know but its also the weird thing about fiction. Don't blame for it.
im saying made out of light. although if fiction wanted someone made out of light could be the slowest snail.
Also don't faceplam at me please which I understand why, but you made couple of ignorant statements so lets both take deep breaths alright.


Equivalence rule will mean genjutsu will affect just 5 senses I believe but anyway.
Genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses.

[MinatoXNaruto]

Spidey solos. If sasuke tries to use kirin then spiderman will just web his hands and sasuke gets fried to a crisp. Juugo would try to go curse mark but spiderman would just web blast him, then proceed to webbing his entire body, and juugo dies of suffocation

[321zigzag3]

i wouldn't call them low, the fact that mysterio is a master at illusions Hypnosis and chemicals, and Mephisto a Demon with the force of magic. it be much easier for him to break out of genjutsu, with the fact he has a partner who can easily break him out of it, but knowing the fact he has either resisted fought or even completely ignore Illusions is a good enough feat, aside from spidey sense kicking in before the illusion is cast.

I meant low in terms of Marvel actually which is usually higher than most of Narutoverse genjutus.


At one point it seem'd like faster than the human eye could keep up with him based on a scan i saw


Spiderman has always been faster than human eye speed. Its just he doesn't always go that speed.

Hmmm, still, im going off of the fact he's fought people faster than sasuke.

At the rate Sasuke is going, I won't be surprised he is going to show more reactions. But anyway not disputing what you said.

Which is why I kept mentioning MS earlier, MS can kill Spiderman if it lands well.

you confused me, it sounded like at first you said tank the juggernaut.
Spider-man can Do hard damage though. Certainly he has more Physical power than sasuke enough to kill him in one Punch.

Actually I really doubt one punch is going to kill Sasuke.

Sasuke although mortally heavily wounded still survived intact from 3 Tailed Killerbee's Lariat.


Yep its base, he even lifted a tank with ease.


So then whats with all the 15 - 20 tons strength limit claim I hear all the time?

True, but it all depends on whats happening in the story.
It's normal for spider-man, Dodging a Bullet at point blank, then stepping up to 4 machine guns at point blank, then lasers point blank, then hundreds of non stop lasers all over your body being evaded, casual lightning dodge, that makes spider-man Really Really fast in reaction, Its also thnx to precog though for this.

I always believed to be a combination of all of them.
Spider Sense, Aimdodge, reactions/reflexes


im saying made out of light. although if fiction wanted someone made out of light could be the slowest snail.

So Lightmaster is lightspeed?

Btw the scane you posted was when Spiderman had the symbiote. That version is quite stronger than Base Spiderman.


Genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses.

Yes but for the sake of equivalency rule we could around that, unless of course Spiderman has no chi energy or anything like that then thats one thing.

Anyway 99% genjutsu fall under that chakra rule.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Not that it matters since Sasuke would be dead long before it got to that point, but I doubt that webbing his hands would prevent Sasuke from using Kirin.

So then whats with all the 15 - 20 tons strength limit claim I hear all the time?

Same deal where Captain America is only peak human. Maybe at one point but the story comes before the limitations of the characters in it.

[sagemaster777]

[/COLOR]

I meant low in terms of Marvel actually which is usually higher than most of Narutoverse genjutus.




Spiderman has always been faster than human eye speed. Its just he doesn't always go that speed.



At the rate Sasuke is going, I won't be surprised he is going to show more reactions. But anyway not disputing what you said.

Which is why I kept mentioning MS earlier, MS can kill Spiderman if it lands well.



Actually I really doubt one punch is going to kill Sasuke.

Sasuke although mortally heavily wounded still survived intact from 3 Tailed Killerbee's Lariat.
A Punch to the Skull would Kill him, the fact he can flick a heavy Truck over with his Finger and Knock out bulldozer.http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/Amazing_Spider-Man_32-03.jpgLOL




So then whats with all the 15 - 20 tons strength limit claim I hear all the time?
It's casually what he's always seen lifting, but here and there he's broken that limit, twice. i think spider-man holds back when it comes to strength.


I always believed to be a combination of all of them.
Spider Sense, Aimdodge, reactions/reflexes
Yeah, it does all tie in together



So Lightmaster is lightspeed?
Yep
Btw the scane you posted was when Spider-man had the symbiote. That version is quite stronger than Base Spiderman.
Actually believe it or not the symbiote Doesn't Improve spider-mans abilities.


Yes but for the sake of equivalency rule we could around that, unless of course Spiderman has no chi energy or anything like that then thats one thing.
[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I don't think he has Chi.
Anyway 99% genjutsu fall under that chakra rule.

@Fortress: the webbing is equivalent to 120 lb (54 kg) per square millimeter in cross-section and is comparable to nylon with extraordinary adhesive properties.
One strand of webbing is strong enough the blind the hulk and hold him Prisoner,but only if the Hulk were to hold still and let the webbing sufficiently dry. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/21012/459246-02_super.jpg
whats stopping him from doing that?

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

How would that stop lightning from falling?

[Devils Lawyer]

Mind you, if we agree with what you say then we should take base Juugo as the norm rather than V2 feats since we arent counting the top.
Juugo isnt winding a guy who is cuddling with his mind, and he sure as hell isnt doing anything with spiderwebbing on him. Tanking a nuke is tanking a nuke, you can't downplay that. Juugo and Sasuke are far below even coming close to a nuke, so in turn Iron Fist should be tanking it. High end feats, yes, but he didn't have anything special about him when he did it.
That the difference between the two. You think its going to be that easy to just attack Juugo and everything is going to be okay. Let me remind you neither side knows what the other is capable of. He could easily be hit with ammy while using his abilities.

Surving an explosion is nothing. He does have that type of abilities. Does not mean he is invulnerable to an attack. Yes he can probably tank the blows. Saying they won't hurt him thats not going to fly. There are plenty other issues with him getting stomped by something weaker than that explosion. Comics is different than manga. Manga once a character shows that type of power they don't go backwards in strength. Comics does for some.

[sagemaster777]

How would that stop lightning from falling?
Spidey Webs him before he even tries it.

[321zigzag3]

Not that it matters since Sasuke would be dead long before it got to that point, but I doubt that webbing his hands would prevent Sasuke from using Kirin.

Like Immortal said, in terms of movement they aren't so far from each other, but Spiderman has always been known for his insane reflexes and reactions.

As for Kirin well Sasuke almost never pulls it out. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

Same deal where Captain America is only peak human. Maybe at one point but the story comes before the limitations of the characters in it.

That too, plot affects it at times. Although Spiderman does hold back though. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif


A Punch to the Skull would Kill him, the fact he can flick a heavy Truck over with his Finger and Knock out bulldozer.


The Skull is one thing I might give you, but I honestly doubt that one punch is suddenly in the league what 3 tailed Killerbee did with his lariat. He literally plowed through the entire large hill with no stop. Spiderman has never displayed that kind of strength. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif



Yep


I still have doubts, can anyone else confirm what he says just for the sake of confirmations. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif



Actually believe it or not the symbiote Doesn't Improve spider-mans abilities.



Since when? http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif

[Devils Lawyer]

My whole train of thought is spidey nor Iron fist are one hit killer. Neither do either of the two have vastly superior speed. Matter of fact starting of speed Sasuke is way faster. Physical reactions spidey is fast as hell. But the sharigan has proven to be able to keep up with a high enough level for spidey.My only when is what is stopping Sasuke from lighting the entire field with amaterasu.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

By the way which Spiderman is this? Is this the regular base Spiderman the one with 10 - 20 ton normal range of strength?

we're using spidey from before this current asinine retcon so class 25-30 with his precog and all

[Now that you think about it, I am starting to remember some of spiderman's reactions.

he's the top dog of street level with the exception of Iron Fist really I don't count karate kid because any one who can pressure point eighty thousand tons of ice..and Dodge lighting from the speed force dimension after it hits you..and judo throw kryptonians into other solar systems does not count as Street level at all..despite the fact that DC claims he is




Considering V1 Raikage was already doing good speed, but anyway.

.

peter should be slightly faster than Sasuke not enough to blitz but all the same but IF? forget it..RM naruto and v2 Raikage would not be able to perceive his movement at all much less Sasuke

First of all regardless of what you are getting at spidey does not have any mental powers.

no he merely has shown that his spidersense has allowed him to resist all manner of stuff from poltergeists to various forms of illusion


Not now anyways. So unless you got proof he has an ability that can block genjutsu this part of the debate is dead.


fair enough then Sasuke tries a mind rape and spidersense makes pete move faster then Sasuke can perceive...or IF's Chi based precog catches it and he punches Sasukes skull in before he can rape peter

either way works really


Same goes for magneto since you brought him up. Doesnt mean they are weak it just mean they cant defend against mental abilities.

Magneto has in fact powered out of Xaviers telepathy through sheer force of will and then reversed a mind rape on him..so no

Sasuke abilities are way more advanced than iron fist.

that is a complete and utter lie


[As is Naruto come every ability that iron fist has used someone in naruto has done it. Let me remind you that mostly Iron fist and Spiderman both mainly fight regular humans.

so you feel that naruto characters can use their chakra to take over a completely alien and exotic force? regenerate their tissues with out any ill effects? (this is according to word of god impossible btw) or hurt some one like Hercules

So are you saying that a regular human thug in marvel can hurt them but Sasuke and Juugo can't.


now your trolling

My whole train of thought is spidey nor Iron fist are one hit killer. Neither do either of the two have vastly superior speed. Matter of fact starting of speed Sasuke is way faster. Physical reactions spidey is fast as hell. But the sharigan has proven to be able to keep up with a high enough level for spidey.My only when is what is stopping Sasuke from lighting the entire field with amaterasu.


and your wrong Iron Fist towers above every one in the naruto universe in speed and Spiderman has a legit edge over Sasuke in everything including speed





... Why did everyone ignore my post...?


*ahem*


Ok...
Iron Fist tanked something that makes Hiroshima, a nuke, look like a sparkler. Are you implying that Sasuke and Juugo, either of them, have anything that would so much as scar Iron Fist? Mind you they aren't going to be doing much with their minds fused to his, or with spiderman webbing everyone. Area of effect doesn't negate speed for a guy with precog who dodges light and lasers, and a guy who is fused mentally with them who can also tank supernukes.

I think Devils Lawyer broke in this thread

[SageoftheSixPaths]

My whole train of thought is spidey nor Iron fist are one hit killer. Neither do either of the two have vastly superior speed. Matter of fact starting of speed Sasuke is way faster. Physical reactions spidey is fast as hell. But the sharigan has proven to be able to keep up with a high enough level for spidey.My only when is what is stopping Sasuke from lighting the entire field with amaterasu.
Sasuke has faster travel speed from what I can tell, but combat/reaction speed is heavily weighted in Spidey's/Fist's favor. They're both casual bullet timers, not to mention precog enhancements.

Ammy lighting the entire field just leaves him a dried husk. He doesn't have that much stamina/chakra, not to mention Ammy's relatively slow speed. Besides, Sasuke looks one way, Iron Fist hits him from the other. He looks at Fist, Spidey wraps him from behind. It's a two on one fight with Sasuke not having the speed, durability, or endurance to win.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Same deal where Captain America is only peak human. Maybe at one point but the story comes before the limitations of the characters in it.

I like when people bring up stated limits...like 'oh petes only a class 15"

The Thing is "only a class 80" yet he's leveled mountains just by grabbing Tony starks arm too hard near one and punted class 100's across land masses

really guys get over the stupid class systems its basically just a generalization that has lost its meaning decades ago
Sasuke has faster travel speed from what I can tell, but combat/reaction speed is heavily weighted in Spidey's/Fist's favor. They're both casual bullet timers, not to mention precog enhancements.


Iron fist is such a high tier bt'er that even when reduced to ten percent of his power he grabbed Spiderman and used him like a human base ball bat to beat on some one then tossed him aside

Spiderman didn't even perceive it..or know what happened to him until he got tossed onto the grass

Fists reaction time is truly insane and pete has openly admitted the mans Chi senses are nearly as good as spidersense

[SageoftheSixPaths]

I like when people bring up stated limits...like 'oh petes only a class 15"

The Thing is "only a class 80" yet he's leveled mountains just by grabbing Tony starks arm too hard near one and punted class 100's across land masses

really guys get over the stupid class systems its basically just a generalization that has lost its meaning decades ago


Iron fist is such a high tier bt'er that even when reduced to ten percent of his power he grabbed Spiderman and used him like a human base ball bat to beat on some one then tossed him aside

Spiderman didn't even perceive it..or know what happened to him until he got tossed onto the grass

Fists reaction time is truly insane and pete has openly admitted the mans Chi senses are nearly as good as spidersense
You'll see no arguments from me on the class system being a bust. The Thing is probably the best example I can think of, but isn't Hulk ranked higher than Surfer in the system (in terms of strength) as well?

Same goes for Fist>Spidey. I was just commenting more on how he was questioning Pete's ability to get around Sasuke.

[sagemaster777]

Like Immortal said, in terms of movement they aren't so far from each other, but Spiderman has always been known for his insane reflexes and reactions.

As for Kirin well Sasuke almost never pulls it out. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png



That too, plot affects it at times. Although Spiderman does hold back though. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif

[/COLOR]

The Skull is one thing I might give you, but I honestly doubt that one punch is suddenly in the league what 3 tailed Killerbee did with his lariat. He literally plowed through the entire large hill with no stop. Spiderman has never displayed that kind of strength. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif




I still have doubts, can anyone else confirm what he says just for the sake of confirmations. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif





Since when? http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/43h7r5d.gif
[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Peter wanted to keep the suit because it could mimic all his clothes and he could become Spider-man instantly, not only that but it produced it's own webbing saving Peter a boat load of cash. Other than that he has no real upgrade from the symbiote, now it gave Brock much higher upgrades due to the fact it had copied Spidey's powers and had also completely bonded with Brock.

You could just look him up.

He pounded Wolverine against a grave and knocked out the Bulldozer with one hit.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/supercoolcola/636453-piledriver4qv_super.jpg

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You'll see no arguments from me on the class system being a bust. The Thing is probably the best example I can think of, but isn't Hulk ranked higher than Surfer in the system (in terms of strength) as well?[

not that I recall but it wouldn't surprise me you know they gave the LT the same stats in power and strength as Surfer?

or that they called Odin a class 60, the guys made the multiverse shake by shooting energy blasts and caused entire dimensions and galaxies to explode when he powers up..

I mean really he's only a class sixty..He's popped Gladiator a guy who can destroy multiple planets by flexing his biceps too hard..and rip stars apart..He's popped this guys wrist right out of its base at the arm with his thumb and index finger..and he's casually lifted a sword..a dozen class 60's and two class 100's couldn't budge..he did this one handed

I mean what ever giving the LT the same stats as the SS is enormously offensive it's probably the worse possible example of the class system being really not something to quote.

DC is even worse they put Alan scott below superman in stats. Allan is one of the most powerful power ring users, has seventy years of experience and has personally killed multiple kryptonians yet..Superman is a tier above him

really it's just all around negligence

Same goes for Fist>Spidey. I was just commenting more on how he was questioning Pete's ability to get around Sasuke.

Sasuke can probably keep up with petes movement speed I just have a time believing he can easily land a meaninful hit on parker due to parkers own insane reaction time and precog..at least not anything critical before taking some hits himself

[Devils Lawyer]

Sasuke can probably keep up with petes movement speed I just have a time believing he can easily land a meaninful hit on parker due to parkers own insane reaction time and precog..at least not anything critical before taking some hits himself

How is it to beleive that Peter being trapped by an illusion or get tagged by Sasuke? When in fact he face way less skilled fighters. Especially consider neither side has any idea what the opposite is capable of. Unlike Sasuke Spidey is out his depth in that type of fight. Most of the time when he gets into a battle like that he escapes and then regroups.
Sasuke has faster travel speed from what I can tell, but combat/reaction speed is heavily weighted in Spidey's/Fist's favor. They're both casual bullet timers, not to mention precog enhancements.

Ammy lighting the entire field just leaves him a dried husk. He doesn't have that much stamina/chakra, not to mention Ammy's relatively slow speed. Besides, Sasuke looks one way, Iron Fist hits him from the other. He looks at Fist, Spidey wraps him from behind. It's a two on one fight with Sasuke not having the speed, durability, or endurance to win.

All that matters is whether or not the sharigan can keep up. Its definetly proven it can. Bullet timing is fine but you also have to remember Sasuke dodged detonated explosions at point blank. That easily puts him in there with spidey/fist. Though they are both superior physically if we follow feats. But like I said the deciding factor will be the speed of Sasuke genjutsu. It doesn't matter about whether or not Spidey/fist can break it. What matters is the time it takes for them to break it they are wide open for kill shots. May that be Kirin or ammy.

[sagemaster777]

Spider-sense is Spot On, Always Predicting before it happens, even knowing exactly whats Happening before it happens. By the time he tries it spider-man would have webbed him up.

Also Precog, Remember that, also the fact his sharingan picks up moves in front of him, not from all angles of his body.

One detonated explosion escape doesn't put him up with Marvel Class Super Humans, speed isn't something that can save sasuke in this fight, and clearly by now you realize it's not genjutsu either.

[Devils Lawyer]

Spider-sense is Spot On, Always Predicting before it happens, even knowing exactly whats Happening before it happens. By the time he tries it spider-man would have webbed him up.

Also Precog, Remember that, also the fact his sharingan picks up moves in front of him, not from all angles of his body.

One detonated explosion escape doesn't put him up with Marvel Class Super Humans, speed isn't something that can save sasuke in this fight, and clearly by now you realize it's not genjutsu either.


Spider sense doesn't work like that it gives him an enhanced awareness of his surroundings. Its like his senses are heightened to an incredible degree. Also its not precog its like a precog. It helps him avoid dangerss doesn't mean it tells him what the danger is. If that was the case he would never fall into a trap. Its basically like daredevils senses.

Try multiple explosions. Thats faster than dodging any bullet which can be dodged with the right reflexes. Batman dodges bullets casually doesn't say much. Marvell superhumans speed is exaggerated constantly.

Also no spidey still is not immune to genjutsu. If you wanna run that arguement. You gotta give proof of that. Considering one his long time enemies cast illusions on him constantly.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

What are these explosions you're talking about Sasuke dodging? The Deidara ones?

[Devils Lawyer]

What are these explosions you're talking about Sasuke dodging? The Deidara ones?

Yep that was equivalent to dodging c4 detonated at point blank.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Yep that was equivalent to dodging c4 detonated a point blank.
What C4 detonation? He canceled C4 via Lightning release and substitution techniques.

[J-Man]

You guys, are a bunch of morons.

[Devils Lawyer]

What C4 detonation? He canceled C4 via Lightning release and substitution techniques.

He dodged multiple attacks before then.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Thank you for your constructive contribution to this thread, J-Man. I really liked the part where you bared your soul and let us see how much of a jackass a person can be in seven words.

Either try to contribute to the debate, explain why we're morons in respect to the debate, or don't post.

@DL: Where and when? I just reread the whole fight, and it mostly consisted of him getting blown up or making Deidara look dumb. And plenty of people have dodged attacks plenty of times. You need to be specific or I can't do anything with it.

[J-Man]

Last I checked you don't have any more power than anyone else here Mr. Superior, I'll post how I like thank you very much, if you have a problem you can report it to the mods. :)

If you think Sasuke and or Juugo can do anything to either other member of the team, you are a moron. Simple.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

You're entertaining the possibility that Sasuke and Juugo might win rather than dismissing it out of hand with a contemptuous laugh like any sane person would do.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

How is it to beleive that Peter being trapped by an illusion or get tagged by Sasuke? When in fact he face way less skilled fighters. Especially consider neither side has any idea what the opposite is capable of. Unlike Sasuke Spidey is out his depth in that type of fight. Most of the time when he gets into a battle like that he escapes and then regroups.

first of all low end showings don't count or did you8 forget that movie codec imbecile who got perm banned for siting them

secondly precog takes care of the knowledge


All that matters is whether or not the sharigan can keep up. Its definetly proven it can.

no it hasn't not even remotely so it's debtable it can keep up with peters precog which has proven itself to be superior to the sharigan in some ways

it's absolutely certain Sasuke wont even be able to see Iron Fist move

[J-Man]

You're entertaining the possibility that Sasuke and Juugo might win rather than dismissing it out of hand with a contemptuous laugh like any sane person would do. What he said. ^^

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Last I checked you don't have any more power than anyone else here Mr. Superior, I'll post how I like thank you very much, if you have a problem you can report it to the mods. =)

If you think Sasuke and or Juugo can do anything to either other member of the team, you are a moron. Simple.
When did I claim to have more power? Or to be "superior"? I'm not the one who just decided to insult half a dozen people out of the blue, man.

Then just say that from the get go so we don't have to argue over semantics. And I can't think of anyone who said Juugo was useful in this fight.

@Fortress: Again, when did I ever say anything about Sasuke standing a chance? I'm just asking DL what he's talking about since I read the fight and didn't see anything remotely like what he's talking about.

[J-Man]

When did I claim to have more power? Or to be "superior"? I'm not the one who just decided to insult half a dozen people out of the blue, man.

Then just say that from the get go so we don't have to argue over semantics. And I can't think of anyone who said Juugo was useful in this fight.
"Either try to contribute to the debate, explain why we're morons in respect to the debate, or don't post."
Sounds like you're trying to act like Mr. Mod here, well sorry to say but you aren't one. :D

I don't think it needs more to be said. And note the and or.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

What he said. ^^

pretty much this bastion of wisdom that guy flying skyfortress is

although I think it;s funny that since I got more active you and FSf started posting Frost ninja seems to have become the "good cop" all of a sudden

oh and Sage is on our side I don't think he even considers this a fair fight

When did I claim to have more power? Or to be "superior"? I'm not the one who just decided to insult half a dozen people out of the blue, man.

Then just say that from the get go so we don't have to argue over semantics. And I can't think of anyone who said Juugo was useful in this fight.

@Fortress: Again, when did I ever say anything about Sasuke standing a chance? I'm just asking DL what he's talking about since I read the fight and didn't see anything remotely like what he's talking about.

I think they were addressing every one else not you

[SageoftheSixPaths]

"Either try to contribute to the debate, explain why we're morons in respect to the debate, or don't post."
Sounds like you're trying to act like Mr. Mod here, well sorry to say but you aren't one. :D

I don't think it needs more to be said. And note the and or.
I'm explaining to you the RULES of the BG. If you'd like, I can quote directly from the rules page:



There will be no one word answers. All answers should be AT THE VERY LEAST one sentence long and should contain legitimate reasoning to back up your take on a fight. Any answers not meeting these standards are subject to down reps, spamming infractions, and post deletion.

You didn't post anything that had reasoning to back up your debate, namely the opinion that "[We] are a bunch of morons."

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You're entertaining the possibility that Sasuke and Juugo might win rather than dismissing it out of hand with a contemptuous laugh like any sane person would do.

you think this is bad? last night some one had the bright idea to put Goku in a match against Supreme (the psychotic version) as if it was an actual legitimate match

[J-Man]

pretty much this bastion of wisdom that guy flying skyfortress is

although I think it;s funny that since I got more active you and FSf started posting Frost ninja seems to have become the "good cop" all of a sudden

oh and Sage is on our side I don't think he even considers this a fair fight
Lol yeah he's pretty cool `:P

Hm yeah I don't know Frost Ninja very much but yeah :P

I didn't think anyone could possible sya "you guys are morons" talking about Sasuke and Jugo winning, and then he got all defensive so I didn't know who's side he's on.
I'm explaining to you the RULES of the BG. If you'd like, I can quote directly from the rules page:
[/LIST]
You didn't post anything that had reasoning to back up your debate, namely the opinion that "[We] are a bunch of morons."
It also says I can be downrepped post deleted etc. Which will happen if mods feel the need. It doesn't mean you can act like Mr. Mod and tell me what to do, if a mod themselves has a problem they will tell me. :D

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Dude, all I'm trying to do is let you know the rules. I haven't down repped you, I haven't reported you, and I don't see a reason why I should need to. I'm just saying that you're not supposed to just throw out a post that has no value in terms of the debate at hand. Am I criminal for actually knowing and trying to follow the rules? I helped to write them in the first place, so I have a level of responsibility to make sure people know them.

And I'm not going to deny that I'm getting defensive, but it's not over the fact that Sasuke and Juugo are completely outmatched. It's more the fact that you called me a moron and then went further by saying I was basically an arrogant ;););););).

[J-Man]

I didn't call you a moron. I said you guys are morons. Meaning, if you think Jugo and or Sasuke can do anything of use in this fight. So not you. Unless you think that.

Then yeah there you go so, acting all Mr. Tell You What To Do isn't such a big deal any more, like I said. If some mod person has a problem they'll tell me. Simple.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Jesus, dude, can we just drop this? I can't tell the tone you're trying to convey here, and I'd rather not argue. I have nothing personal against you or anyone here, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. I'll just say that if I came across as acting superior, I'm sorry, because I'm not.

And Sasuke and Juugo are still horribly mismatched, so no, I don't think "that way". :P

[Devils Lawyer]

first of all low end showings don't count or did you8 forget that movie codec imbecile who got perm banned for siting them

secondly precog takes care of the knowledge

Wasn't here for that. I only listed it to show his reflexes aren't low to the point that he would be outright blitzed. Spiderman speed leans more towards his reaction speed.

Spider sense is not outright precog. Who even came up with that?




no it hasn't not even remotely so it's debtable it can keep up with peters precog which has proven itself to be superior to the sharigan in some ways

it's absolutely certain Sasuke wont even be able to see Iron Fist move

That depends in what context. As far as in predicting and countering unknown attacks Sharigan is superior. Spiderman on the other hand is warned but can't necessary counter always. Specific attacks easily slip through. Like that of mysterio using gas to attack.

Thank you for your constructive contribution to this thread, J-Man. I really liked the part where you bared your soul and let us see how much of a jackass a person can be in seven words.

Either try to contribute to the debate, explain why we're morons in respect to the debate, or don't post.

@DL: Where and when? I just reread the whole fight, and it mostly consisted of him getting blown up or making Deidara look dumb. And plenty of people have dodged attacks plenty of times. You need to be specific or I can't do anything with it.

Up I was mistaken its been forever since I read that fight. That falls along more in the durabilty section. But regardless he still shown sufficient speed to say the least his sharigan can keep up.

@J man pfft

[J-Man]

Jesus, dude, can we just drop this? I can't tell the tone you're trying to convey here, and I'd rather not argue. I have nothing personal against you or anyone here, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. I'll just say that if I came across as acting superior, I'm sorry, because I'm not.

And Sasuke and Juugo are still horribly mismatched, so no, I don't think "that way". :P
I wasn't trying to argue I was just saying not to act like Mr. Mod and if a real mod has a problem they'd say so. I don't have anything against you either, no reason to.

Yeah good. `;)

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Up I was mistaken its been forever since I read that fight. That falls along more in the durabilty section. But regardless he still shown sufficient speed to say the least his sharigan can keep up.
Not fast enough to compete with Fist or Spidey in close combat. Not by a long shot. And he has no attacks fast/accurate enough to hit them, either.

As for Spidey sense being precog, it let's Pete sense danger just moments before it happens. It also lets him sense ill intentions from those around him to an extent, all of which is eerily similar to the characteristics of precognition.

[Devils Lawyer]

Not fast enough to compete with Fist or Spidey in close combat. Not by a long shot. And he has no attacks fast/accurate enough to hit them, either.

As for Spidey sense being precog, it let's Pete sense danger just moments before it happens. It also lets him sense ill intentions from those around him to an extent, all of which is eerily similar to the characteristics of precognition.

Close combat negative. But I was referring to midrange. With the support of Susanoo. No you seem to get my train of thought. I am thinking along the lines of genjutsu opening Spidey and Fist up. His sharigan is easily fast enough to do that. Now whether or not Spidey can break it is up for debate. Fist for a fact can but that course of action would still leave him open. Sasuke takes kill shots in times like that.

Far as Spidey precog goes it makes him hyper sensitive to his surroundings. But it never once gave away a person abilities. He would always use his reaction to dodge the attack. Sharigan would be pretty hard to do that against. Considering its attacking through the mind.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Wasn't here for that. I only listed it to show his reflexes aren't low to the point that he would be outright blitzed. Spiderman speed leans more towards his reaction speed.

It was on a vastly more insane scale then your doing for example he claimed that Superman being hurt by a fence post is more legit then him being able to take earth sundering blows..but all the same be careful

I don't think Sasuke can be outright blitzed by pete..I do how ever think that IF can

Spider sense is not outright precog. Who even came up with that?


it's been outright precog since about 2001 mind you it's not with out precedence he has had premonitions up to moments in advance as early as Lee's original run it was just very few and far between (by nearly a decade in between I mean)


That depends in what context. As far as in predicting and countering unknown attacks Sharigan is superior. Spiderman on the other hand is warned but can't necessary counter always. Specific attacks easily slip through. Like that of mysterio using gas to attack.

The Sharingan has the edge in data assimilation obviously but when it comes to precog I'd prefer petes for example stuff Sasuke cannot see coming..due to it being out of his visual range or what ever spidey sense can "see' and forcefully adjust you- although thats a little uncomfortable

Daredevils the one thats got broken his "range' is up to about a dozen city blocks now or something - that's just stupid

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Close combat negative. But I was referring to midrange. With the support of Susanoo. No you seem to get my train of thought. I am thinking along the lines of genjutsu opening Spidey and Fist up. His sharigan is easily fast enough to do that. Now whether or not Spidey can break it is up for debate. Fist for a fact can but that course of action would still leave him open. Sasuke takes kill shots in times like that.

Far as Spidey precog goes it makes him hyper sensitive to his surroundings. But it never once gave away a person abilities. He would always use his reaction to dodge the attack. Sharigan would be pretty hard to do that against. Considering its attacking through the mind.
Spidey broke hypnosis before. Against Dracula, if I'm not mistaken. So I don't see why he can't break Genjutsu, which is more or less the same.

As for not knowing his opponent's abilities, he CAN tell where and when the attack is coming from. All he needs to know is that the threat is coming from Sasuke and he can either move out of his field of vision or simply attack while Sasuke tries for a Genjutsu tactic.

And if Sasuke manages to hit one of the two with Genjutsu, which is highly doubtful, he'll be open for an attack from the other, which ruins him.

[Devils Lawyer]

It was on a vastly more insane scale then your doing for example he claimed that Superman being hurt by a fence post is more legit then him being able to take earth sundering blows..but all the same be careful

I don't think Sasuke can be outright blitzed by pete..I do how ever think that IF can

I was under the impression Spidey was stronger than IF. Considering the last time they fought he did come out as the winner.



it's been outright precog since about 2001 mind you it's not with out precedence he has had premonitions up to moments in advance as early as Lee's original run it was just very few and far between (by nearly a decade in between I mean)

It could be true. I did see this one issue saying spidey powers were ordained something along those lines.

The Sharingan has the edge in data assimilation obviously but when it comes to precog I'd prefer petes for example stuff Sasuke cannot see coming..due to it being out of his visual range or what ever spidey sense can "see' and forcefully adjust you- although thats a little uncomfortable

Daredevils the one thats got broken his "range' is up to about a dozen city blocks now or something - that's just stupid

That is true on the first part. Its awareness is superior to the sharigan. Sharigan is only visual. Spider sense brings out total awareness. But I also know that certain attacks are beyond it. I am pretty sure an attack from tsukiyomi would fall into that category.Spidey broke hypnosis before. Against Dracula, if I'm not mistaken. So I don't see why he can't break Genjutsu, which is more or less the same.

As for not knowing his opponent's abilities, he CAN tell where and when the attack is coming from. All he needs to know is that the threat is coming from Sasuke and he can either move out of his field of vision or simply attack while Sasuke tries for a Genjutsu tactic.

And if Sasuke manages to hit one of the two with Genjutsu, which is highly doubtful, he'll be open for an attack from the other, which ruins him.

You mean morpheus. But anyways sharigan genjutsu is not simple hypnosis. Its a total mind jack. That fact is proven by the simple reason often times the recipient is put in a coma.

He may know the attack is coming from Sasuke. But he won't know what the attack is. By the time he figure it out the illusion is cast. Leaving him wide open for the kill. As for IF he has no preemptive measure. Though he could counter. But that leaves wide open.

Actually that the difference between Sasuke and IF. IF needs more time to focus. When have you seen Sasuke needing to cast an illusion standing still?

[321zigzag3]

you think this is bad? last night some one had the bright idea to put Goku in a match against Supreme (the psychotic version) as if it was an actual legitimate match

So Immortal Watchdog, what made you willing to put Sasuke and Jugo against Spiderman and especially Iron Fist.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

[sagemaster777]

A Fun Summary on Spider-sense with some interesting facts.Spider-man used his spider-sense to track where certain people were in the city, told mary jane how many fingers she was holding up, broke out of illusions. truth is It appears to be a simultaneous, seemingly clairvoyant response to a wide variety of phenomena Including sensing potential or immediate danger and psychological awareness of his surroundings

Using his spider-sense to time his enhanced reflexes, Spider-Man can casually dodge attacks up to and including automatic-weapons fire. Even point blank, his spider-sense has already warned him in enough time to get away like a precognitive sense, before he can even consciously think about his actions. His spider-sense is sufficiently well-linked to his reflexes, even before "The Other" storyline, that a threat can trigger them even when Spider-Man is asleep or stunned. Spider-Man's spider-sense is directional and can guide him to or away from hidden weapons and disguised enemies. Sudden and extreme threats (such as the Beyonder observing Earth before the first Secret Wars, Thanos using the Infinity Gauntlet to destroy half of the sapient population of the universe, the Ultimate version of Venom, or the predatory Morlun) can cause his spider-sense to react with painful intensity. He Also An ability to detect certain radio frequencies. Spider-Man's technical skill is such that he has designed spider-tracers that broadcast a signal detectable by his spider-sense.

After the "Disassembled" and "The Other" storylines, Spider-Man gains the ability to feel vibrations and currents in the air or in his web lines, much like a real spider. He also develops a psychic connection to insects, spiders, and other arthropods. The spider-sense also allows Spidey to determine the source of the incoming attack, which gives him an advantage against enemies who are all over the place like Spot.

Only times Spider-sense didn't help him was Either because of the symbiote or do to the fact is villains developed Certain Objects to counter-act it.

[Devils Lawyer]

So Immortal Watchdog, what made you willing to put Sasuke and Jugo against Spiderman and especially Iron Fist.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

He made this thread extra hard by giving Sasuke Jugo.http://www.narutoforums.com/images/smilies/series3/faceplam.png
A Fun Summary on Spider-sense with some interesting facts.Spider-man used his spider-sense to track where certain people were in the city, told mary jane how many fingers she was holding up, broke out of illusions. truth is It appears to be a simultaneous, seemingly clairvoyant response to a wide variety of phenomena Including sensing potential or immediate danger and psychological awareness of his surroundings

Using his spider-sense to time his enhanced reflexes, Spider-Man can casually dodge attacks up to and including automatic-weapons fire. Even point blank, his spider-sense has already warned him in enough time to get away like a precognitive sense, before he can even consciously think about his actions. His spider-sense is sufficiently well-linked to his reflexes, even before "The Other" storyline, that a threat can trigger them even when Spider-Man is asleep or stunned. Spider-Man's spider-sense is directional and can guide him to or away from hidden weapons and disguised enemies. Sudden and extreme threats (such as the Beyonder observing Earth before the first Secret Wars, Thanos using the Infinity Gauntlet to destroy half of the sapient population of the universe, the Ultimate version of Venom, or the predatory Morlun) can cause his spider-sense to react with painful intensity. He Also An ability to detect certain radio frequencies. Spider-Man's technical skill is such that he has designed spider-tracers that broadcast a signal detectable by his spider-sense.

After the "Disassembled" and "The Other" storylines, Spider-Man gains the ability to feel vibrations and currents in the air or in his web lines, much like a real spider. He also develops a psychic connection to insects, spiders, and other arthropods. The spider-sense also allows Spidey to determine the source of the incoming attack, which gives him an advantage against enemies who are all over the place like Spot.

Only times Spider-sense didn't help him was Either because of the symbiote or do to the fact is villains developed Certain Objects to counter-act it.

[321zigzag3]

Jugo isn't a threat though unless he is CS2 and thats mainly because of decent durability at least for a limited time, chakra Cannon, and oh yes decent reactions/reflexes.

But thats all it.

[Devils Lawyer]

Jugo isn't a threat though unless he is CS2 and thats mainly because of decent durability at least for a limited time, chakra Cannon, and oh yes decent reactions/reflexes.

But thats all it.

That sums it up. But thats not enough them deal with both of to deal with IF or Spidey. Though if he lands a blow thats a different story. But both of them deal with his type on the regular. He nothing more than a rampaging beast to them. The only good he would be able to do would be if Sasuke manages to catch both of them with MS.

My whole train of thought is every fight is not cut a dry. Feats are fine but the truth to is the difference in verses is too different. Movement is entirely different. My question is how can you really even accurately calc Naruto anyways. There is hardly any real world relevance in the series. Then there is the fact Marvel with always throw an outrageous event to their characters thus another high end feat. Knowing full well that character hasn't shown anything close to that before hand. With no explanation for the capabilities.

[321zigzag3]

That sums it up. But thats not enough them deal with both of to deal with IF or Spidey. Though if he lands a blow thats a different story. But both of them deal with his type on the regular. He nothing more than a rampaging beast to them. The only good he would be able to do would be if Sasuke manages to catch both of them with MS.

Same here, MS is the only thing that they have,

My whole train of thought is every fight is not cut a dry.

Which is why in general its best argue in more in terms of probability or such.

Feats are fine but the truth to is the difference in verses is too different. Movement is entirely different.


My question is how can you really even accurately calc Naruto anyways.

There will never be any clear cut feats but you do them the best you can.

The only real issue in calculating Naruto (which you shouldn't unless you are quite sure and even then use in general scenarios) is mainly speed.

Then again speed debate is always a problem for any series. Its much more difficult than comparing durability or strength. Those are much easier to compare.

There is hardly any real world relevance in the series

Like any series.

Then there is the fact Marvel with always throw an outrageous event to their characters thus another high end feat

Spiderman doesn't abuse inconsistencies though.

In this case thats why I kept bringing up Raikage and such.

Considering Raikage is likely one of the fastest ninjas and of course Kisame said supersonic speeds are rare in Narutoverse, they aren't contradictory.

OBD actually did decently in trying to generalizing Naruto and One Piece in terms of speed at times although for One Piece they acknowledge double digit hypersonic has gotten out of hand.

As for Bleach well, anyone knows they are quite above sound and into hypersonic but even OBD doesn't try to calc bleach speed because there is nothing to really calc.

In fact OBD has largely ceased to calc even in using low end peak human speed because it ends up being outrageous. So unless you have something concrete like FRS crossing the crater in one second or bullets or something measured implied by the author, do not try to calc 95% of the time.

Knowing full well that character hasn't shown anything close to that before hand. With no explanation for the capabilities.

For who?

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I was under the impression Spidey was stronger than IF. Considering the last time they fought he did come out as the winner.

and both of them have lost to Steve Rogers and wolverine which are garbage feats every one jobs..eventually

Danny has while depowered made pete look like a joke parkers barely stalemated him other times and Danny's handled the wrecking crew managed to do pretty well against Herc and luke Cage and the like

He also got an enormous power boost and has to date leveled trains and brought down Shield Hellcarriers

It could be true. I did see this one issue saying spidey powers were ordained something along those lines

that totem stuff was dropped years ago no it's merely his abilities evolving.

Peter parker was as a college student below Classic Fisk who while not a super human was a clas 5 brick with class 10 durability. Fisk had more strength in his right arm than pete had in his whole body

now adays? he's demolishing buildings and aim dodging lasers..powers crawl up


That is true on the first part. Its awareness is superior to the sharigan. Sharigan is only visual. Spider sense brings out total awareness. But I also know that certain attacks are beyond it. I am pretty sure an attack from tsukiyomi would fall into that category.
y

I don't see why it wouldn't warn him about Genjutsu and even if it does take him it only handles sensory there's no proof it'd effect spidey sense

So Immortal Watchdog, what made you willing to put Sasuke and Jugo against Spiderman and especially Iron Fist.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

This Sasuke Uchiha an Uchiha..they are terrible characters and entirely deserve it

Goku does not and is superior quality

[321zigzag3]

Jugo isn't really much of a terrible character, he is just bland.

[Frost ninja]

So once again, how does genjutsu stop IF and his mind-melding?

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Jugo isn't really much of a terrible character, he is just bland.

his blandness can't be helped considering how he grew up..its hard to cultivate a personality when you are a lab rat

I did give him props for the loyalty he showed to Sasuke but I believe it's misplaced

[SmokingPistols]

Spiderman and Iron Fist, even if Spiderman lost, he would at least have a good sense of humor about it.

[Rasengan SageX5]

Susanoo ftw

Not if Sasuke gets blitzed before he can even think to use it.

[321zigzag3]

Give proof on the blitzing, at least Immortal Watchdog clarified what he meant by blitzing.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Susanoo will do more harm than good. Sasuke can't touch Spidey and IF so he's just delaying the inevitable.

[Devils Lawyer]

Susanoo will do more harm than good. Sasuke can't touch Spidey and IF so he's just delaying the inevitable.

Thats a false statement. Neither Spiderman or IF are fast to the point they can't be touched. Over exaggerations like that are always made in threads like this.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Neither of them are fast to the point that they can't be touched by anyone. Both of them are fast to the point they can't be touched by the Sauce and Jugo.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Thats a false statement. Neither Spiderman or IF are fast to the point they can't be touched. Over exaggerations like that are always made in threads like this.

nonsense Sasuke can't react to IF at all he's helpless against him and may as well be a statue

conversley the moment suso goes up all Danny and peter have to do is play keep away until Sasuke starts barfing up blood and bleeding out of his eyes and all that and either wait till he dies..or just murder him outright

Susanoo ftw

Iron fist punches it and it breaks

oh and yes this happening if he can knock Hercules on his but and mess up a Shield hellcarrier he's taking Susanoo apart

[Frost ninja]

As I've said before, IF solos with a mind cuddle. Mental incapasitation still gives the win.

[J-Man]

Alternatively Spider-man webs Susano'o and makes it immobile so the argument of being touched is irrelevant, simple.

[Devils Lawyer]

Neither of them are fast to the point that they can't be touched by anyone. Both of them are fast to the point they can't be touched by the Sauce and Jugo.

That is totally blowing their skill level out of proportion. I can name a half a dozen characters off the top of my hand slower than them. At fore front of my list is king pin. Then as far as Iron fist goes the majority of his villains are extremely gifted martial artist but none of them have the ability of Iron Fist. That being said someone who has as many abilities as Sasuke definetely stands a chance. You do know that the majority of villains in Marvel are base humans right. Again you are thinking of them at their peaks. Whats the probability of them starting off at their max. Whats an even better question when have you ever seen them capable of starting of with their max.
nonsense Sasuke can't react to IF at all he's helpless against him and may as well be a statue

conversley the moment suso goes up all Danny and peter have to do is play keep away until Sasuke starts barfing up blood and bleeding out of his eyes and all that and either wait till he dies..or just murder him outright



Iron fist punches it and it breaks

oh and yes this happening if he can knock Hercules on his but and mess up a Shield hellcarrier he's taking Susanoo apart
Read above
As I've said before, IF solos with a mind cuddle. Mental incapasitation still gives the win.

Thats if he is capable of doing that to Sasuke. One Sasuke is capable of fighting it. Next is the fact tsukiyomi is faster and so is the sharigan genjutsu in general. IF needs more concentration he is fully infiltrating the mind.

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

Kingpin is slower than Iron Fist and Spider-man. I can see how that conclusively proves that they aren't faster than Sasuke.

[Devils Lawyer]

Kingpin is slower than Iron Fist and Spider-man. I can see how that conclusively proves that they aren't faster than Sasuke.

The fact that speed is nowhere associated with him. He was only one example anyways. Still can't get around the fact the majority of their enemies is just humans. So are you saying that every human is marvel is faster than Sasuke?

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

No, but then, they don't need to be for Spidey and IF to be.

[Frost ninja]

Thats if he is capable of doing that to Sasuke. One Sasuke is capable of fighting it. Next is the fact tsukiyomi is faster and so is the sharigan genjutsu in general. IF needs more concentration he is fully infiltrating the mind.

He managed to calm an entire mob by melding minds with all of them, I don't see how Sasuke is somehow immune.

Tsukiyomi is faster than the speed of thought? Genjutsu is faster how?
I'd like you to back these claims. Your just making blank assumptions right now.

IF isn't infultrating, he is melding with it. Tsukyoumi or anything will affect both sasuke and Juugo as well, and since IF has the mental fortitude to meld minds in general, let alone his mob quelling feat, I'm sure he can take a genjutsu pretty well while Spiderman webs for a physical incap on top of the mind cuddle incap.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Read above
.

why nothing that you said wasn't something we haven't debunked yet...plus I find it amusing you brought up Wilson Fisk as if he was some kind of joke


Kingpin is slower than Iron Fist and Spider-man. I can see how that conclusively proves that they aren't faster than Sasuke.

just to point something out Wilson Fisk in his prime when he was still able to tag spiderman and all actually on panel blitzed Captain America and hurled a thousand pound medicine ball at pete too fast for his precog to intercept...and took out Green goblin with a swift nerve strike to the arm..

while he's certainly not hypersonic any one who brings up Fisk tagging spiderman is both A) lying about just how monstrously fast he actually was and B) is conveniently leaving out the fact that parker was vastly weaker back then

never mind that he leveled a mansion ontop of both himself and parker shattering steel and stone foundations with casual clothes lines in a battle that resulted in peter knocked out and Fisk just bruised and pissed his house got all messed up.

The fact that speed is nowhere associated with him. He was only one example anyways. Still can't get around the fact the majority of their enemies is just humans. So are you saying that every human is marvel is faster than Sasuke?

yeah firstly that was a much weaker Pete secondly you know nothing of classic fisk do you?

namely that among the other speed feats I've listed he's taken down a dozen master martial artist in about twelve seconds..

beaten down a half dozen armed thugs before their brains could even react including performing a highly acrobatic rear kick/flip before the guy could counter

let's not down play with out knowing the potency of the guy your using a low end bench mark

[Devils Lawyer]

He managed to calm an entire mob by melding minds with all of them, I don't see how Sasuke is somehow immune.

Tsukiyomi is faster than the speed of thought? Genjutsu is faster how?
I'd like you to back these claims. Your just making blank assumptions right now.

IF isn't infultrating, he is melding with it. Tsukyoumi or anything will affect both sasuke and Juugo as well, and since IF has the mental fortitude to meld minds in general, let alone his mob quelling feat, I'm sure he can take a genjutsu pretty well while Spiderman webs for a physical incap on top of the mind cuddle incap.

Who said immune I meant the fact he can combat it. Speed of thought the only proof of that would be him activating and gaining control. Guess what else does that?

Okay that a mob of people who have no defense against the ability at all. Never stop to think about that. As far as spiderman webs working. Not capable of holding a fullblown Susanoo. Then you are forgetting the entire arsenal of weapons at his disposal. You can say for the most part they aren't immune to normal weapons.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

while it's a valid point mobsters don't have the same type of mental feats Sasuke has

claiming Spidermans webbs wont hold Susanoo is insane they have briefly contained the thing juggernaut and hulk

oh and Fisk is beyond the speed of normal human beings and proved that consistently and that was a much weaker Parker

[Devils Lawyer]

while it's a valid point mobsters don't have the same type of mental feats Sasuke has

claiming Spidermans webbs wont hold Susanoo is insane they have briefly contained the thing juggernaut and hulk

oh and Fisk is beyond the speed of normal human beings and proved that consistently and that was a much weaker Parker

No its valid to point out as there as many stars under the sun someone has cut through spidey webbs. Add onto the fact you say contain Juggernaught and Hulk. You mean give them something to throw him with. Thats what exactly happened everytime he tried that.

So basically what you are saying is Fisk is faster than Sasuke.
why nothing that you said wasn't something we haven't debunked yet...plus I find it amusing you brought up Wilson Fisk as if he was some kind of joke

Pfft it wasn't debunked. Obviously since I have reason to bring it back up. Never said fisk was a joke. Just brought up the fact speed isn't his forte.




just to point something out Wilson Fisk in his prime when he was still able to tag spiderman and all actually on panel blitzed Captain America and hurled a thousand pound medicine ball at pete too fast for his precog to intercept...and took out Green goblin with a swift nerve strike to the arm..



Ever considered he rushed them they had no room to escape. Then he proceeded to crush. Just like everyother Fisk fight.


while he's certainly not hypersonic any one who brings up Fisk tagging spiderman is both A) lying about just how monstrously fast he actually was and B) is conveniently leaving out the fact that parker was vastly weaker back then


He wasn't monstrously fast. His attack pattern was no different than a linebacker taking out a running back he gave them no room. Then he proceeded to overtake them in power.
never mind that he leveled a mansion ontop of both himself and parker shattering steel and stone foundations with casual clothes lines in a battle that resulted in peter knocked out and Fisk just bruised and pissed his house got all messed up

Okay surving a bulding falling on top of him. That a feat almost every character in fiction has done.



yeah firstly that was a much weaker Pete secondly you know nothing of classic fisk do you?

namely that among the other speed feats I've listed he's taken down a dozen master martial artist in about twelve seconds..

beaten down a half dozen armed thugs before their brains could even react including performing a highly acrobatic rear kick/flip before the guy could counter

let's not down play with out knowing the potency of the guy your using a low end bench mark


Low end bench mark what. I am just stating the fact that you are amping IF and Spidey to a degree they aren't at. As many high end feats you name there even more was that disagree with that entirely. Seeing as we are going against the characters as whole I am going to point it out. Don't be mad bro. Still haven't broken my point at all simple fact Fisk was slower and he trashed Spiderman. The consensus was Sasuke wouldn't be capable of getting a blow off I disagree.

[Frost ninja]

Who said immune I meant the fact he can combat it. Speed of thought the only proof of that would be him activating and gaining control. Guess what else does that?

He can? I'd love to see some feats of him resisting mind control.

Okay that a mob of people who have no defense against the ability at all.

Neither does sasuke. Still waiting on proofs.

Never stop to think about that.

I did, then realized Sasuke has never fought someone who is mind-melding... or directly attacking his mind and not just his senses.

As far as spiderman webs working. Not capable of holding a fullblown Susanoo.

Of course, but where is susanoo going to be when Sasuke is melded to IF?

Then you are forgetting the entire arsenal of weapons at his disposal.

His mind not being one of them, and being vital as well.

You can say for the most part they aren't immune to normal weapons.

Of course, just nukes. Obviously a sword > Nuke, right?

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

No its valid to point out as there as many stars under the sun someone has cut through spidey webbs. Add onto the fact you say contain Juggernaught and Hulk. You mean give them something to throw him with. Thats what exactly happened everytime he tried that.

Wolverine sure has..nothing in Naruto or much of fiction for that matter compares to Adamantium, holding Thing Wonderman and Juggy even for five seconds means they can hold down suso for as long as needed



So basically what you are saying is Fisk is faster than Sasuke.

did you drop acid before reading my post? seriously if your going to try and dishonestly make up nonsense to try and torpedo my argument at least claim something I directly refuted in a prior post

Pfft it wasn't debunked. Obviously since I have reason to bring it back up. Never said fisk was a joke. Just brought up the fact speed isn't his forte.

considering your standard debate tactic is to repeat and repeat until people go away...yes, yes we have and no your bringing it up does not much matter

you are right speed isn't Fisks forte but LAWL slowpoke is pretty stupid claim and every one from Steve rogers..to pete and Matt would correct you on that

Ever considered he rushed them they had no room to escape. Then he proceeded to crush. Just like everyother Fisk fight.

Rogers had twenty feet to get the hell away from him he has shown many times that that is more than enough to avoid slow targets the only thing the managed to do was avoid Fisk getting a hold of his throat.

He wasn't monstrously fast. His attack pattern was no different than a linebacker taking out a running back he gave them no room. Then he proceeded to overtake them in power.

defeating dozens of people in seconds? man handling people known to be superhumanly fast by most standards? your saying this isn't impressive

fuuuu

Okay surving a bulding falling on top of him. That a feat almost every character in fiction has done.


yeah when a class ten brick goes down and needs medical attention and your still standing

or when you survive a point blank gunshot to the head and only need plastic surgery to remove the scar..



Low end bench mark what. I am just stating the fact that you are amping IF and Spidey to a degree they aren't at.


they;re consistent high end showings place them at a level that Sasuke can barely hang with for Peter Parker and ABSOLUTELY CANNOT SEE when it comes to Fist

As many high end feats you name there even more was that disagree with that entirely.

and they don't count as noted when a MVC troll got the perm ban for listing them..standard vs procedure is to go with consistent high end showings this is a universal rule

Seeing as we are going against the characters as whole I am going to point it out.

and you have no point

Don't be mad bro. Still haven't broken my point at all simple fact Fisk was slower and he trashed Spiderman.

your point was dihonest, you deliberately left out that peter was vastly weaker back then and due to the fact that you likely know this..intentionally distorting evidence is if a very serious thing. It destroys your credibility and invalidates your entire premise

you have been caught doing this twice now


The consensus was Sasuke wouldn't be capable of getting a blow off I disagree.

no the consensus was that Sasuke can probably make a fight of peter before going down but that'd be as helpless as a baby seal against a Polar bear against Fist

[Devils Lawyer]

Wolverine sure has..nothing in Naruto or much of fiction for that matter compares to Adamantium, holding Thing Wonderman and Juggy even for five seconds means they can hold down suso for as long as needed




Wolverine isn't the only character to slice through spideys webs. Deadpool and Goblin for one don't have any adamantium. Lizard doesn't have any adamantium just plin claws and teeth.

Says who half the time spidey web never holds that long against his opponents 7/10 times they break away.



did you drop acid before reading my post? seriously if your going to try and dishonestly make up nonsense to try and torpedo my argument at least claim something I directly refuted in a prior post



What exactly did I lie about ? I just completely turned the same eveidence you gave me into my favor. Hence this is a debate. Meaning instead of getting mad. Trash what I am saying completely.

considering your standard debate tactic is to repeat and repeat until people go away...yes, yes we have and no your bringing it up does not much matter

I wouldn't repeat if you could totally dispute it. Which you can't ? Everything you say has holes. If that wasn't the case I would have left this thread awhile back.


you are right speed isn't Fisks forte but LAWL slowpoke is pretty stupid claim and every one from Steve rogers..to pete and Matt would correct you on that


I didn't say slowpoke. Did you not ready my analogy between football and fisk? Its basically the same tactic all power fighters use Hulk, Juggernaught and Thing. Those three are fast in the slightest bit. They have killer reactions though. Which is the speed you are referring too.



Rogers had twenty feet to get the hell away from him he has shown many times that that is more than enough to avoid slow targets the only thing the managed to do was avoid Fisk getting a hold of his throat.



He was still fighting Fisk. Wasn't exactly like he straight up ran away.


defeating dozens of people in seconds? man handling people known to be superhumanly fast by most standards? your saying this isn't impressive

fuuuu


That is the norm in fiction in general. Then you just said something out your mouth. Spiderman has fought characters a shitload faster than him. So what makes him or IF immune to the concept?


yeah when a class ten brick goes down and needs medical attention and your still standing

or when you survive a point blank gunshot to the head and only need plastic surgery to remove the scar..



Point being that is the norm in most mainstream comics. He wouldn't be much of a villain without any qualities about him.





they;re consistent high end showings place them at a level that Sasuke can barely hang with for Peter Parker and ABSOLUTELY CANNOT SEE when it comes to Fist


I will challenge that. So you are saying Parker is no match for IF. When in fact he beat the s-hit of IF. You can say it was a fluke whatever. But the fact remains he won.


and they don't count as noted when a MVC troll got the perm ban for listing them..standard vs procedure is to go with consistent high end showings this is a universal rule



I am not listing any feat. I am just talking about the character as a whole the good and the bad. Otherwise there would be nothing to debate on.


and you have no point



Obviously I do

your point was dihonest, you deliberately left out that peter was vastly weaker back then and due to the fact that you likely know this..intentionally distorting evidence is if a very serious thing. It destroys your credibility and invalidates your entire premise

you have been caught doing this twice now



Caught doing what. All I'm doing is listing events that actually happened. All you are doing is getting mad at me for listing them.


no the consensus was that Sasuke can probably make a fight of peter before going down but that'd be as helpless as a baby seal against a Polar bear against Fist


That is up for debate as long as thread is rolling. Genjutsu spam
Of course, just nukes. Obviously a sword > Nuke, right?

Mind control you mean afight for control of your mind. As in the one he had with Itachi. Ok he doesn't go up against a Nuke everyday. Then there is the fact that thousands of characters walk out of blasts unscathed to later get stabbed. Also where is the proof fist would even know he's been caught in an illusion.

This Nuke scenario you keep bringing up describe it.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

That is up for debate as long as thread is rolling. Genjutsu spam

it would be advisable for you to begin multi quoting properly



]Wolverine isn't the only character to slice through spideys webs. Deadpool and Goblin for one don't have any adamantium. Lizard doesn't have any adamantium just plin claws and teeth.

Goblin being physically stronger than Sasuke and lizard is some who could bend him over and rape him

your point?

What exactly did I lie about ? I just completely turned the same eveidence you gave me into my favor. Hence this is a debate. Meaning instead of getting mad. Trash what I am saying completel

what you did was dishonestly misinterpret what I said making a claim that I had openly denied earlier that's called dishonesty

Says who half the time spidey web never holds that long against his opponents 7/10 times they break away.

most of those guys crapping on suso

I wouldn't repeat if you could totally dispute it. Which you can't ? Everything you say has holes. If that wasn't the case I would have left this thread awhile back.

your arguments got demolished what your doing now is trolling

I didn't say slowpoke. Did you not ready my analogy between football and fisk? Its basically the same tactic all power fighters use Hulk, Juggernaught and Thing. Those three are fast in the slightest bit. They have killer reactions though. Which is the speed you are referring too.

wow Hulk and Thing aren't fast Thing is so fast every single character in the naruto universe would not be able to do anything he couldn't see coming in massive slow motion..the man has run after ICBM's and reacted to massively hypersonic things

conversely Fisk has a history of demolishing bullet timers thus debunking your original claim

He was still fighting Fisk. Wasn't exactly like he straight up ran away.

umm no He was completely at Fisks mercy openly admitted Fisk was going to kill him if some miracle didn't happen and only survived because of some bird

Point being that is the norm in most mainstream comics. He wouldn't be much of a villain without any qualities about him. \

and now your just ranting

I am not listing any feat. I am just talking about the character as a whole the good and the bad. Otherwise there would be nothing to debate on.

we go by consistent high end showings

Obviously I do

no, no you really don't

I will challenge that. So you are saying Parker is no match for IF. When in fact he beat the s-hit of IF. You can say it was a fluke whatever. But the fact remains he won.

you mean when IF was exhausted had barely any Chi openly admitted he was fighting at reduced capacity..and still managed to knock parker around - or how IF became vastly stronger now and thus that prior fight has no validity?

it's amusing how you leave out critical details like this, and then claim that doing that isn't dishonest debate tactics when it in fact is..absolutely dishonest to do so

Caught doing what. All I'm doing is listing events that actually happened. All you are doing is getting mad at me for listing them.

and this is where your dishonesty goes into full blown trolling. You know full well you omitted key details from the confrontations with Fisk namely The Peter Parker of those fights was vastly weaker than the one Sasuke is facing here

thus you citing that feat as if it has any basis what so ever is a complete act of distortion to further your side of the debate that is dishonesty that is trolling - you are now guilty of this a third time

That is up for debate as long as thread is rolling. Genjutsu spam

Frost Ninja cleared that up nicely as did others on the first page

[Devils Lawyer]

it would be advisable for you to begin multi quoting properly

That was an accident. Plus I was on my phone. I am hardly ever at home.




Goblin being physically stronger than Sasuke and lizard is some who could bend him over and rape him




The point was they all cut through spideys web. Also it had nothing to do with strength. Goblin is more about his weapons than straight combat.


what you did was dishonestly misinterpret what I said making a claim that I had openly denied earlier that's called dishonesty



Nope I took what you said and poke holes at it.

most of those guys crapping on suso

Not even I love how you are wanking their strength. Shattering Susanoo more like get burned alive for touching it. You still never explained that.




your arguments got demolished what your doing now is trolling



How am I trolling. You just getting all pisssed of about nothing. Read the bg title home of endless debates.


wow Hulk and Thing aren't fast Thing is so fast every single character in the naruto universe would not be able to do anything he couldn't see coming in massive slow motion..the man has run after ICBM's and reacted to massively hypersonic things



Once again You are referring to reaction. Have you not noticed they are extremely vulnerable to characters who fight long range outside not close combat. Speed no reaction yes.


conversely Fisk has a history of demolishing bullet timers thus debunking your original claim



Conversely they all came at him. Totally trashing your statement.


umm no He was completely at Fisks mercy openly admitted Fisk was going to kill him if some miracle didn't happen and only survived because of some bird


Again they were in a fight. It wasn't like he was going to far away from Fisk. He was still in Fisk range.
\


and now your just ranting



Yet I am not the one getting mad.


we go by consistent high end showings


No you go by what is relevant to your arguement.



no, no you really don't



Actually I do.


you mean when IF was exhausted had barely any Chi openly admitted he was fighting at reduced capacity..and still managed to knock parker around - or how IF became vastly stronger now and thus that prior fight has no validity?


Your point being characters go through changes constantly. Then there is the fact before the lost of chi they were already fighting.


it's amusing how you leave out critical details like this, and then claim that doing that isn't dishonest debate tactics when it in fact is..absolutely dishonest to do so



Leaving what details?


and this is where your dishonesty goes into full blown trolling. You know full well you omitted key details from the confrontations with Fisk namely The Peter Parker of those fights was vastly weaker than the one Sasuke is facing here


Pfft how is this trolling. Everything I had cited is in the series.



thus you citing that feat as if it has any basis what so ever is a complete act of distortion to further your side of the debate that is dishonesty that is trolling - you are now guilty of this a third time


:roll:



Frost Ninja cleared that up nicely as did others on the first page


I just trashed that agian. The clear up was more opinionated than it was totally fact. Fact parker gets caught in illusions. Fact Iron Fist abilities get countered all the time. Fact you mad bro.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

That was an accident. Plus I was on my phone. I am hardly ever at home.

oh come now most phones are advanced enough now that we can multi quote with them



The point was they all cut through spideys web. Also it had nothing to do with strength. Goblin is more about his weapons than straight combat.

the point is you are again dishonestly bringing something up and leaving out key details..in each circumstance ranging from weaponry more advanced than anything in the naruto universe to greater strength and speed feats and striking power then Sasuke

Nope I took what you said and poke holes at it.

I'm not exactly sure your grasping the concept of poking holes in an argument, you do this when some messes up the debate by making a weak argument or one that like you leaves out vital details and misrepresents a feat. See what I did was say "while Fisk Certainly isn't hypersonic you bringing up a vastly weaker version of spiderman fighting a monster is dishonest" I had very clearly conceded that Fisk was in no way faster then Sasuke

only one who was retarded or so desperate to win a debate that he'd warp a post would interpret that as "IWD says Fisk is faster than Sasuke"

which are you?

Not even I love how you are wanking their strength. Shattering Susanoo more like get burned alive for touching it. You still never explained that.

well lets see here I'm wanking Iron fists strength? so you feel Susanoo is more durable than class fifty to sixty bricks multi tens of thousands of tons of steel..freighttrains and the hundred plus thousand ton hellcarrier he demolished?

or that Lizard Venom Carnage and Saberooth and Rhino likely could break Susu? they certainly can Danzo's little elephant did it..the raikage man handled Sasuke's stupid little toy skeleton with out bursting into flames just fine


How am I trolling. You just getting all pisssed of about nothing. Read the bg title home of endless debates.

well you are lying for one, intentionally leaving out vital details and misrepresenting feats and using the title as an excuse to continue long after you've lost.

Once again You are referring to reaction. Have you not noticed they are extremely vulnerable to characters who fight long range outside not close combat. Speed no reaction yes.

Vulnerable to who? Magneto? he'd destroy the HST with a mere thought and that's an absolute fact. Who else? Thor Thunderstrike and Gladiator? all of which are ftl planet to star killers in gladiators case? The silver Surfer?

Namor a long range massively hypersonic fighter has been blitzed by both hulk and Thing with Ben using superspeed to create a vacuum so powerful it literally flung namor around a hundred or so miles



Conversely they all came at him. Totally trashing your statement.


nope wrong again the only person who came at him was Daredevil then he broke his shins kicking fists back and refused to try and get anywhere near him..after that and then usually still failed

as to his fights with Spiderman pete in fact attempted to use his speed and agility to get away stay out of Fisks range each time it amounted to nothing

Again they were in a fight. It wasn't like he was going to far away from Fisk. He was still in Fisk range.

he was a good twenty feet away form Wilson


Yet I am not the one getting mad.


no none of us here are mad son, but we will point out your lies and errors

No you go by what is relevant to your arguement.

not especially the rules regarding vs debating demand consistent high end showings..barring certain exceptions like moviecodec and other such forums


]Actually I do.

I suppose dishonestly trying to prove western comic characters can't pwn naruto chars is a sort of point

Your point being characters go through changes constantly]

and you cannot use the feats of weaker incarnations as though they are valid


Then there is the fact before the lost of chi they were already fighting.


and this changes the fact that Fist has on numerous occasions displayed superior power and speed to parker? that he's blitzed while weakened and other wise kicked his ass? How does this change that as of 2007 Iron fist has consistently displayed blatantly superior feats and gained many new power ups?

Leaving what details?

the critical details that make those feats either irrelevant or special circumstance and other wise invalid


Pfft how is this trolling. Everything I had cited is in the series.


and you dishonestly leave out many of those feats do not count for various reasons the Fisk example being the most grave of those examples and your attempts to discuss the webbing involving more lies


I just trashed that agian. The clear up was more opinionated than it was totally fact. Fact parker gets caught in illusions. Fact Iron Fist abilities get countered all the time. Fact you mad bro.

and with this post you have fully gone over to trolling...I've assembled proof your dishonesty and your lies...Frost ninja and Flying sky fortress demolished your arguments and J-man called you out on your less then brilliant tactics

this is over you have two choices: go home or continue long past the trolling point

[Devils Lawyer]

I am not really gonna go word for word anymore. My point still stands. There are easily a good number of ways to keep both of them out of range. Seeing as both of them are still human at their core attacks like electricity still work. Then seeing as how genjutsu arguement is still a solid one I am going to keep using. Everything that has been said I have brought evidence to the contrary. Then you bring up Flying sky fortess and J-man who both haven't brought up anything. Just wannabe trolls.

This is not over. You have to choices stop your bitching and continue or stfu and go home. See there you bringing out the worst in me. Consider the fact I really don't care how this thread goes. As long as its open and I have something to say I am going to post. Don't be mad bro its just fiction.

[Frost ninja]

I'm still waiting on evidence fom a direct mind attack.
Itachi was using genjutsu, which attacks the senses. Mind control versus attacking your senses, Mind control is much harder to counter. After all, you can appearently escape genjutsu by others touching you. I don't think the same idea applies to a direct mental attack. Though if it does, by golly someone better warn Darksied to stay away from narutoverse. His mind games won't work there. And Doctor Strange too, his mindrape won't work on sasuke from what your telling me.

Itachi had to use the most powerful genjutsu (possibly behind izanagi) to get out of Kabuto's mind control, and Sasuke lacks the same stuff...

[Devils Lawyer]

I'm still waiting on evidence fom a direct mind attack.
Itachi was using genjutsu, which attacks the senses. Mind control versus attacking your senses, Mind control is much harder to counter. After all, you can appearently escape genjutsu by others touching you. I don't think the same idea applies to a direct mental attack. Though if it does, by golly someone better warn Darksied to stay away from narutoverse. His mind games won't work there. And Doctor Strange too, his mindrape won't work on sasuke from what your telling me.

Itachi had to use the most powerful genjutsu (possibly behind izanagi) to get out of Kabuto's mind control, and Sasuke lacks the same stuff...

My question in that if it doesn't attack the opponents mind. Then why is the opponents mind always at a risk of being overwhelmed? Majority of indivuals attack by the sharigan their minds shut down. That why I think of the sharigan as a mental attack. But if it isnt that put IF in an even worse situation. He wouldn't even be aware that he was in the illusion. Unless he were to meld with Sasuke's mind. What reason would he have do that. You actually assume its easy for IF to mind jack. For that matter when has he mind jacked anyone.

Also on a side note everyone you named was attacked by a powerful illusionist. Except for Darkseid who has never received an attack to the mind. Not to my knowledge anyways.

You guys are boring as hell you should have ended this thread ago. Instead of amping the characters up why not mention the fact IF has the power to heal from any attack. Add onto the fact he can make it to the point he feels no pain. Also amping his strength and speed. If you have mentioned the simple basis of his abilities instead of giving dead end feats I would have no counter. I am done with this thread goodbye.

[colorles]

lol manga vs comic debates, theres always a way to 'twist' somthing around in these

[321zigzag3]

Spiderman and Iron Fist feats aren't too bad to be varied so its not much of a big deal.

Compared to like Superman.

His so many versions too.

[Devils Lawyer]

lol manga vs comic debates, theres always a way to 'twist' somthing around in these


Exactly there is no such thing as a clear cut win. I always wonder why when it comes to comics vs manga people catch feelings. Often times totally underatting a character.
Spiderman and Iron Fist feats aren't too bad to be varied so its not much of a big deal.

Compared to like Superman.

His so many versions too.

Thats what pisses me of about comics everytime I find a version I like they change the character again. Yet people complain about Naruto. When was the last time comics maintained a genuine storyline to the end.

[321zigzag3]

Exactly there is no such thing as a clear cut win. I always wonder why when it comes to comics vs manga people catch feelings. Often times totally underatting a character.


Thats what pisses me of about comics everytime I find a version I like they change the character again. Yet people complain about Naruto. When was the last time comics maintained a genuine storyline to the end.

In the end you cannot deny that Iron Fist and Spiderman have had shown superior things that is why MS is really the only saving grace here and sharingan's mental capabilities.

Partially because they had a much longer run.


Its not that much with these two.

As for Superman, yes I am well aware he is supposed to be FTL and very powerful and all, but I blame writers then for the low showings.

Also, I saw a nnoitora and grimmjow vs superman thread and some thought the bleach ones should win.

The thing is if you go by low showings and Superman's immense PIS, its possible they will beat him up at least initially.



I hope the reboot fixes him up.

[Devils Lawyer]

In the end you cannot deny that Iron Fist and Spiderman have had shown superior things that is why MS is really the only saving grace here and sharingan's mental capabilities.

Partially because they had a much longer run.


Its not that much with these two.

As for Superman, yes I am well aware he is supposed to be FTL and very powerful and all, but I blame writers then for the low showings.

Also, I saw a nnoitora and grimmjow vs superman thread and some thought the bleach ones should win.

The thing is if you go by low showings and Superman's immense PIS, its possible they will beat him up at least initially.



I hope the reboot fixes him up.

Of course I know they are superior. Pre surgery Sasuke only saving grace is the sharigan. I mean is katons and Raitons are pretty good abilities. But the minute he couldn't keep up physically with A he really can't compete in the speed department. Pretty sure that probably gonna change. His ms is probably be on the verge of predicting the future or some other haxx ability.

I mean the story can go on but for so long. At least start a new generation instead of repeating the cycle.

lol Superman always makes me laugh. He can juggle planets yet he gets slapped by Grundy. So now you are saying grundy is capable of juggling planets.

Well see I actually havent kept up with comics lately. I really don't have the time for them. I read manga on the fly.

[colorles]

most comics tend to 'suck' anyways, they play into the hands of the manipulators of the 'American' (so to speak) public......*shshshsh* i wouldnt wanna be labeled an 'anti-comic conspirasist' ;)

[Devils Lawyer]

most comics tend to 'suck' anyways, they play into the hands of the manipulators of the 'American' (so to speak) public......*shshshsh* i wouldnt wanna be labeled an 'anti-comic conspirasist' ;)

Not all of them. I actually like the story when they first start off but they tend to suck after while.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I am not really gonna go word for word anymore. My point still stands. There are easily a good number of ways to keep both of them out of range. Seeing as both of them are still human at their core attacks like electricity still work. Then seeing as how genjutsu arguement is still a solid one I am going to keep using. Everything that has been said I have brought evidence to the contrary. Then you bring up Flying sky fortess and J-man who both haven't brought up anything. Just wannabe trolls.

This is not over. You have to choices stop your bitching and continue or stfu and go home. See there you bringing out the worst in me. Consider the fact I really don't care how this thread goes. As long as its open and I have something to say I am going to post. Don't be mad bro its just fiction.


you have no point and you lie you deliberately misrepresented evidence and used low end showings which have no validity what so ever..due to the way these debates are done. We destroyed you you lost and you chose to continue lying and wanking

this thread has proven you to be a liar, dishonesty in these debates is the single greatest cardinal sin any poster can commit and you sir are a repeated offender further more..you are ignoring the fact that others refuted your arguments and have chosen to continue the debate at hand.

you are trolling. your last post was a troll post

[Devils Lawyer]

you have no point and you lie you deliberately misrepresented evidence and used low end showings which have no validity what so ever..due to the way these debates are done. We destroyed you you lost and you chose to continue lying and wanking

this thread has proven you to be a liar, dishonesty in these debates is the single greatest cardinal sin any poster can commit and you sir are a repeated offender further more..you are ignoring the fact that others refuted your arguments and have chosen to continue the debate at hand.

you are trolling. your last post was a troll post

Yawn no lie I just disregarded your weak arguement. IF and Spiderman are stronger but doesn't mean I have to choose and say they would win. What lie have I told is the question? Next no answer was debunked you just named an ability and said it was superior to the sharigan. That my sir is no arguement at all. So in conclusion move on with your life.

@on side note I love posts like these

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

so to sum up this nonsense: the only proof that Sasuke can react to spiderman is that Wilson Fisk a above normally fast fat man used to be able to beat up a version of spiderman that is several times weaker than the one we're using here, which you conveniently forgot to add- and low end showings of people tagging him which is so against debate policy people get banned for doing this

okay next

IF- because spiderman might of beat him once when he was weakened and not operating at peak capacity and pete still got tossed around some..it invalidates that he's leveled trains hellcarriers and people that give Thor and Hercules trouble

next-the mental stuff

Frost ninja points out IF can screw with peoples brains..your counter is well you don't have a counter

Spidermans spidersense has defended against mind rape and it;s a sense that cannot be put in genjutsu..ya aint got no counter for that either

Summation; Spiderman walls up juugo in webbing that would take him at best several minutes to get out of at worse..several hours while IF just blitzes the holly hell out of Sasuke and crushes his skull killing him instantly

[Devils Lawyer]

so to sum up this nonsense: the only proof that Sasuke can react to spiderman is that Wilson Fisk a above normally fast fat man used to be able to beat up a version of spiderman that is several times weaker than the one we're using here, which you conveniently forgot to add- and low end showings of people tagging him which is so against debate policy people get banned for doing this

okay next

IF- because spiderman might of beat him once when he was weakened and not operating at peak capacity and pete still got tossed around some..it invalidates that he's leveled trains hellcarriers and people that give Thor and Hercules trouble

next-the mental stuff

Frost ninja points out IF can screw with peoples brains..your counter is well you don't have a counter

Spidermans spidersense has defended against mind rape and it;s a sense that cannot be put in genjutsu..ya aint got no counter for that either

Summation; Spiderman walls up juugo in webbing that would take him at best several minutes to get out of at worse..several hours while IF just blitzes the holly hell out of Sasuke and crushes his skull killing him instantly

LoL look who is trolling now. The fact you even bringing this thread back is proof enough you are butt hurt. So in summary get over it. I can flip any thread I choose.

There is a counter for every ability you just. Fact one is spiderman webs have been cut by little more than teeth and claws. Fact two spiderman has been fed dirt by opponents who have way less to offer than Sasuke. Another good fact is IF mind abilities you speak of have little to with mind control. It is a total mind meld. He can't completely force anything only project his feelings, and thoughts into the person. Fact he can still be caught by genjutsu. Next spiderman gets caught in way more lower level illusions than the sharigan. Fact spider sense only saved him from a killing blow and brought awareness. It did not stop the illusion.

Fact this is funny. Fact let the thread die. Fact I already said that Sasuke and Juugo can't take this fight. Fact accept your shortcomings in life. Fact you are in fact flame baiting. Which is an actual rule? You supposedly care about the rules yet here we are. This has been fun fact by dl.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

by teeth and claws? by who Lizard? Venom? Carnage..they'd kill Sasuke easily

Sabertooth? he took out a windigo and wears it as a pimp suit currently the guy would kill 90% of the naruto universe and you bring this up as if it means Sasuke can do it

prtip Victor would kill Sasuke eat his flesh then make a wallet out of his skin and maybe wash his Sharingan down with some jack and Heinekein and he would do it because he's a superstrong psychotic cannibal who killed a Windigo and is superior to most NU characters

who fed him dirt? Fisk? back then? when he was weaker? what your doing got other people banned who Green goblin? he;d do the same thing to Sasuke...Scoprion? same deal

as for Fist, he took out a shield hellcarrier he's taken the wrecking crew he's knocked hercules on his ass..he's point blank deflected close to a hundred thousand rounds of ammo

Sasuke isn't reacting to him period...The Third Hokage couldn't Minato couldn't Sasuke wont

this butthurt rant you keep bringing up sounds like your either animevice or MVC given your hostility towards western fiction..that pretty much further invalidates your claims

[joon61]

sasuke and jugo ftw

[Super Sanin 3]

sasuke and jugo ftw
Watch out you're gonna get flamed like hell

[UchihaXSasuke]

what will spiderman do?
kick?
:))
this is a joke
spiderman is weak dude compared to sasuke
sasuke wouldn't even need to move
genjutsu
chidori spear and spydy is dead
then he just blitzes and cuts iron fist in half
or he preps kirin and makes a cool move while jugo fights iron fist
you didn't restricted MS or EMS
do you need more?

[Flying Fortress Skyfire]

sasuke and jugo get murderized to death

Fixed that for you, no need to thank me.

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

what will spiderman do?
kick?
:))
this is a joke
spiderman is weak dude compared to sasuke
sasuke wouldn't even need to move
genjutsu
chidori spear and spydy is dead
then he just blitzes and cuts iron fist in half
or he preps kirin and makes a cool move while jugo fights iron fist
you didn't restricted MS or EMS
do you need more?

oh look your massively full of crap lying and talking completely out of your ass again
sasuke and jugo ftw

no they die horribly

[UchihaXSasuke]

oh look your massively full of crap lying and talking completely out of your ass again


no they die horribly
you just say ;);););)
you don't bring proofs
spidy never broked anything as hard as susanoo

[UchihaXSasuke]

And Dude
again
Spidy has no knoledge
he gets traped in genjutsu
and dies
same with iron fist
no counter for genjutsu
NO COUNTER

[Rasengan SageX5]

Except for the fact that he can basically link his mind to both Sasuke and Juugos' and then whatever genjutsu Sasuke tries on Iron Fist, he unwillingly casts on himself and his partner as well.

[UchihaXSasuke]

Except for the fact that he can basically link his mind to both Sasuke and Juugos' and then whatever genjutsu Sasuke tries on Iron Fist, he unwillingly casts on himself and his partner as well.
how does he link his mind?
sasuke casts genjutsu on both from the begining
there is no chance for spidy

[cnorwood]

iron fist caves both of their faces in

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

you just say ;);););)
you don't bring proofs
spidy never broked anything as hard as susanoo

what crack are you smoking you pathetic liar I've listed numerous feats for spiderman that you are A, completely biased B, stupid and C, speak in chat speak isn't my problem

and really? cannot break Susanoo? really? never mind that IF has leveled freight trains massive one hundred thousand plus ton hellcarriers and knocked a drunk herc on his rear..and your gonna claim he can't bypass Sasukes defenses? you are completely and totally full of it you are lying and you are being biased

[sagemaster777]

Are you people still debating on this? :lol:

Spider-man and iron fist Stomp the living jutsu out of them. i suggest reading spider-man comics first before arguing against this, and i mean UP TO DATE spider-man comics.