Tier Debate: Is Gaara really Legend Tier?

[TheBlackChidori]

It continues. `@x)

Gaara at full power, in possession of Shukaku. Therefore at the beginning of shippuden, assuming that he can go into full-shukaku mode like against Naruto.

Does he really warrant being in Legend Tier? He proved that he's better then Deidara, but Deidara really didn't use any of his big bombs in that fight. And recently Gaara managed to capture 4 legendary Kages at once, as well as overpower gold dust with his sand, a technique created specifically for combating the Shukaku since Gold weighs more then sand.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Imo I think he could beat people in the Legend tier above him (Mainly Oro)

He's basically the best ranged fighter, besides a few others. His ability to fly makes it impossible for close range people to hit him, that and his Shukaku chakra makes his already big chakra pool even bigger.

[Wooster]

It continues. `@x)

Gaara at full power, in possession of Shukaku. Therefore at the beginning of shippuden, assuming that he can go into full-shukaku mode like against Naruto.

Does he really warrant being in Legend Tier? He proved that he's better then Deidara, but Deidara really didn't use any of his big bombs in that fight. And recently Gaara managed to capture 4 legendary Kages at once, as well as overpower gold dust with his sand, a technique created specifically for combating the Shukaku since Gold weighs more then sand.
Three, Mu didn't get caught. Plus, the other two escaped rapidly. And he never defeated his father so much as spoke to his heart and all that crap.
Giving that his father was defeated by either Orochimaru or weak version Kabuto, Gaara overcoming him isn't that impressive.

I believe all the other Legend Tier have genjutsu powers or are Kisame, Killer Bee Naruto (but Kisame has massive healing abilities and Naruto has complete control over the ninetails).
I would kick him out as he is limited to his sand for attacks and defense. Not to mention I don't see any of the other Legend Tiers having any problems fighting him.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Three, Mu didn't get caught. Plus, the other two escaped rapidly. And he never defeated his father so much as spoke to his heart and all that crap.
Giving that his father was defeated by either Orochimaru or weak version Kabuto, Gaara overcoming him isn't that impressive.

I believe all the other Legend Tier have genjutsu powers or are Kisame, Killer Bee Naruto (but Kisame has massive healing abilities and Naruto has complete control over the ninetails).
I would kick him out as he is limited to his sand for attacks and defense. Not to mention I don't see any of the other Legend Tiers having any problems fighting him.
Oro would have trouble.

[TheBlackChidori]

You're right, mu wasn't caught. But even he was telling the Tsuchikage to call Gaara over if he wanted any hope of winning his fight.

And he managed to raise his sand over the golddust and capture the kage in sand arms. After that its mainly talk.

But he seems fairly angry now, so I guess we'll see.

[deidara330]

That depends. What's the defining trait of Legend Tier?

[THE X UCHIHA]

Gaara deserve to be in the Kage tire :

being a Kage doesn't mean u should be in the Kage tire , being in a tire is due to the feats shown and still those feats he has shown are not legendary as Madara's feats are,Nagato's , Naruto's ,KB's , Kisame , Zetsu , Guy(debatable) ... etc.

away from overpowering the gold dust,Gaara showed the ability to control Shukaku when Deidara tried to attack him while he was inside the absolute defense,Furthermore;even Amy failed to burn Gaara's sand.

Now I'm gonna evaluate Gaara's sand properties from different sides :

after the Shukaku extracted ,the sand has massively improved in speed, defence, and offence since last time. He could not only block the Raikage's power kick seconds before it touched Sasuke's Kagutsuchi , but even block Amaterasu itself several times as well. During the Fourth Shinobi World War, Gaara's sand powers were so strong that his father believed he had fully transformed into the Shukaku and was later surprised to see that was not the case. Gaara was able to quickly manoeuvre his sand above his father's Gold Dust, despite its superior weight. He was also able to catch three Kage with his sand despite his father's efforts.
It was unknown at first whether or not Gaara sand defence was still automatic as it was believed that Shukaku was the source of the defence. However, the Fourth Kazekage states that Gaara's mother Karura was the source of the defense.

[Wooster]

Oro would have trouble.How when he can revive himself after being crushed?
Plus, Orochimaru can even use his "scare" genjutsu on sharngan Kakashi. Can Gaara withstand that?

You're right, mu wasn't caught. But even he was telling the Tsuchikage to call Gaara over if he wanted any hope of winning his fight.

And he managed to raise his sand over the golddust and capture the kage in sand arms. After that its mainly talk.

But he seems fairly angry now, so I guess we'll see.
Words mean nothing as you well know. :lol:

I guess. But what has Golddust ever done? It was just introduce now.

Well, I don't think Gaara place should change, but for now he is just a Kage. Nothing special per se except he is damn strong even without the One Tails. Which ironically hurts him with it. There is no real power difference between the two except he can become the Shukaku, but that isn't really more impressive than summoning Gamabunta.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

How when he can revive himself after being crushed?
Plus, Orochimaru can even use his "scare" genjutsu on sharngan Kakashi. Can Gaara withstand that?


Words mean nothing as you well know. :lol:

I guess. But what has Golddust ever done? It was just introduce now.

Well, I don't think Gaara place should change, but for now he is just a Kage. Nothing special per se except he is damn strong even without the One Tails. Which ironically hurts him with it. There is no real power difference between the two except he can become the Shukaku, but that isn't really more impressive than summoning Gamabunta.
He has to come out of that body, he'd be buried in sand again, and if he did his little head Kusangi thing Gaara could just evade it and crush his head again. Gaara flying puts him far out of range of Oro, especially his genjutsu. And Gaara with prep can make a crap ton of sand.

[Phoenix Wright]

Imo I think he could beat people in the Legend tier above him (Mainly Oro)

He's basically the best ranged fighter, besides a few others. His ability to fly makes it impossible for close range people to hit him, that and his Shukaku chakra makes his already big chakra pool even bigger.
Orochimaru out of anyone else you could have chosen? He's one of the few despite how overrated Gaara is who definitely wouldn't lose.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

How when he can revive himself after being crushed?
Plus, Orochimaru can even use his "scare" genjutsu on sharngan Kakashi. Can Gaara withstand that?

Orochimaru uses his mouth to spit out a new body. Would it still work if his entire body's crushed? IIRC, Gaara was able to pretty much crush Deidara's arm to smithereens.

[Wooster]

He has to come out of that body, he'd be buried in sand again, and if he did his little head Kusangi thing Gaara could just evade it and crush his head again. Gaara flying puts him far out of range of Oro, especially his genjutsu. And Gaara with prep can make a crap ton of sand.
Orochimaru has shown he can burrow though ground in snake form.
Orochimaru burrowing and reviving puts him out of range of Gaara.
Orochimaru can make a crap ton of snakes without prep.

And Kusangi musts likely could puncture Gaara's sand defense.
And what of Hydra mode, does Oro get that?
Gaara can't do squat to that.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Orochimaru has shown he can burrow though ground in snake form.
Orochimaru burrowing and reviving puts him out of range of Gaara.
Orochimaru can make a crap ton of snakes without prep.

And Kusangi musts likely could puncture Gaara's sand defense.
And what of Hydra mode, does Oro get that?
Gaara can't do squat to that.
If Gaara makes the ground into sand he'd still be in danger.
And Oro out of range of Gaara.
Gaara has a crap ton of sand.

I never said it didn't but it's a close range weapon, yes he can expand it, but Gaara's aerial maneuvers can dodge it.
I don't think he can use it without Sasuke or another person to host off of.
If Oro had Hydra, I'd say he'd belong where he is but without it, he should be lower than he is imo.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Orochimaru uses his mouth to spit out a new body. Would it still work if his entire body's crushed? IIRC, Gaara was able to pretty much crush Deidara's arm to smithereens.

How does that happen?

Deidara was clearly preoccupied with trying to attack. He wouldn't have been hit with the sand had he not been trying to attack without killing, which wouldn't have been natural.

Deidara would've easily been able to dodge it, imo.

Orochimaru should be able to as well, considering the fact that he was able to react to a KN4 attack, IIRC.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

How does that happen?

Deidara was clearly preoccupied with trying to attack. He wouldn't have been hit with the sand had he not been trying to attack without killing, which wouldn't have been natural.

Deidara would've easily been able to dodge it, imo.

Orochimaru should be able to as well, considering the fact that he was able to react to a KN4 attack, IIRC.
Gaara's sand is faster now.

[Wooster]

If Gaara makes the ground into sand he'd still be in danger.
And Oro out of range of Gaara.
Gaara has a crap ton of sand.

I never said it didn't but it's a close range weapon, yes he can expand it, but Gaara's aerial maneuvers can dodge it.
I don't think he can use it without Sasuke or another person to host off of.
If Oro had Hydra, I'd say he'd belong where he is but without it, he should be lower than he is imo.
I assume that is why Orochiamru is in legend tier. Why else is he there?
Isn't Orochimaru always hosting after all?

[J-Sun Tasogare]

I assume that is why Orochiamru is in legend tier. Why else is he there?
Isn't Orochimaru always hosting after all?
Yes, but I would think he'd need a completely other body to use it with, specifically one with a curse seal, maybe specifically the Curse Seal of Heave or w/e.

[Jinchiruuki]

Feats that are being overlooked right now:

1) Having the speed feat of intercepting Raikage in Lightning Armor who was dropkicking Sasuke with his sand. I.E nullifying both persons attacks COMPLETELY. This adds to his reaction and sand speed feats IMO.

2) Being able to block Amaterasu.

While these were only a few moments I think having the capability of blocking one of the strongest Taijutsu users in the verse with relative ease as well as blocking Amaterasu puts him up there.

His speed/reaction feats as well as having the ability to fly and having pretty much endless range makes him Legend Tier.

While he hasn't done the abilities again yet, Sand Tsunami, Rain of Sand etc make range irrelevant to him. As long as the battlefield has rocks, sand, dirt or whatever in it, he has numerous advantages.

Also should add Gaara STILL has a massive chakra pool and still uses Sand Armor.

[Wooster]

Yes, but I would think he'd need a completely other body to use it with, specifically one with a curse seal, maybe specifically the Curse Seal of Heave or w/e.
If Oro doesn't have hydra, he shouldn't be in Legend Tier.

Of course, that still doesn't mean that Gaara should be there.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

If Oro doesn't have hydra, he shouldn't be in Legend Tier.

Of course, that still doesn't mean that Gaara should be there.
I agree

again I agree, but I don't think there is anyone below him that could beat him, so he deserves his spot at the top of High Tier imo, though he can give some people in legend tier a challenge, just not a very big one.

[Vornmusion]

Orochimaru has shown he can burrow though ground in snake form.
Orochimaru burrowing and reviving puts him out of range of Gaara.
Orochimaru can make a crap ton of snakes without prep.

And Kusangi musts likely could puncture Gaara's sand defense.
And what of Hydra mode, does Oro get that?
Gaara can't do squat to that.

If Gaara makes the ground into sand he'd still be in danger.
And Oro out of range of Gaara.
Gaara has a crap ton of sand.

I never said it didn't but it's a close range weapon, yes he can expand it, but Gaara's aerial maneuvers can dodge it.
I don't think he can use it without Sasuke or another person to host off of.
If Oro had Hydra, I'd say he'd belong where he is but without it, he should be lower than he is imo.

I assume that is why Orochiamru is in legend tier. Why else is he there?
Isn't Orochimaru always hosting after all?

Yes, but I would think he'd need a completely other body to use it with, specifically one with a curse seal, maybe specifically the Curse Seal of Heave or w/e.

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8513/screenshot2011081515350.png

If "power of reincarnation" means his Living Corpse Reincarnation technique, then he can use it at relative will I believe--in a more than one-shot sense anyway. But what do I know, that piss poor wording reveals jack all really other than reminding me that his defeat was one troll after another. :evil:

[J-Sun Tasogare]

The problem is he came out of Sasuke and not his dead body, his body was way away. >_>

[Wooster]

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8513/screenshot2011081515350.png

If "power of reincarnation" means his Living Corpse Reincarnation technique, then he can use it at relative will I believe--in a more than one-shot sense anyway. But what do I know, that piss poor wording reveals jack all really other than reminding me that his defeat was one troll after another. :evil:Exactly, why didn't he use it when fighting Sasuke? :[[[[[

[deidara330]

Exactly, why didn't he use it when fighting Sasuke? :[[[[[Perhaps because Kabuto was still in the vicinity and happened the be the reason Orochimaru was still alive in the first place. He also might've been too weak to use it, as I do recall there being some limit to his oral rebirth and using the Hydra could create a stress on his body that he probably couldn't have handled in his state. When he used it inside Sasuke on Itachi, he'd been in Sasuke's body for a while and had probably recovered to some degree since some of his power had been seeping into Sasuke.

[Frost ninja]

I don't see how Gaara beats oro exactly with LAC and all. Gaara makes the ground into sand, Oro LAC's into the sand. Gaara flies away, the sword has shown to be able to extend much father than Gaara can fly, and be strong enough to drive the four tails through at least a mile or three of earth just off of its own expansion, which is fast in its own right. Plus he has no genjutsu resistance so the whole "see your own death" thing may be an issue.

[TheBlackChidori]

Exactly, why didn't he use it when fighting Sasuke? :[[[[[

Because he's fail against Sharingan.

He went for the ritual while half-dead and a Chidori through his chest. Got overconfident, and Sasuke out Genjutsu'd him.

He probably also knew that Sasuke couldn't contain him since he didn't know the body possession jutsu, and that Sasuke would eventually rely on Oro's CS2 and exhaust his own chakra against Itachi.

I also think he didn't want to kill Sasuke. It's his dream to take his body, after all.

[Wooster]

Perhaps because Kabuto was still in the vicinity and happened the be the reason Orochimaru was still alive in the first place. He also might've been too weak to use it, as I do recall there being some limit to his oral rebirth and using the Hydra could create a stress on his body that he probably couldn't have handled in his state. When he used it inside Sasuke on Itachi, he'd been in Sasuke's body for a while and had probably recovered to some degree since some of his power had been seeping into Sasuke.

Because he's fail against Sharingan.

He went for the ritual while half-dead and a Chidori through his chest. Got overconfident, and Sasuke out Genjutsu'd him.

He probably also knew that Sasuke couldn't contain him since he didn't know the body possession jutsu, and that Sasuke would eventually rely on Oro's CS2 and exhaust his own chakra against Itachi.

I also think he didn't want to kill Sasuke. It's his dream to take his body, after all.
I think you both miss the point.
That would have been awesome. The way Sasuke took over Orochimaru was extremely anitclimatic, a big middle finger to the face for what was suppose to be one of the most powerful shinobi ever.

[deidara330]

I think you both miss the point.
That would have been awesome. The way Sasuke took over Orochimaru was extremely anitclimatic, a big middle finger to the face for what was suppose to be one of the most powerful shinobi ever.I did. I'll look at it a different way.

From the author's perspective, I think it was anticlimactic because the author wanted Orochimaru shown in a light that makes him look pathetic. Anyone who thinks Orochimaru's defeat was due to his matchup against a Sharingan is someone who has interpretation problems and hates the manga by using that as their excuse.

Orochimaru lost against Itachi even more pathetically than how he lost against Sasuke. The purpose wasn't to show that the Sharingan was the best thing ever, but that if you sacrifice your humanity for the sake of perfection you're bound to meet a fate worthy of what you've become. Once again, a major reason that Orochimaru lost was that he was sick as a result of stealing the bodies of others to extend his life, and another reason is that he was arrogant and believed that he could train someone for three years and take over that person's body without backlash. The only reason a Sharingan and an Uchiha were involved were because Orochimaru wanted that. If Orochimaru had trained any other person for three years who had their own life and their own goals, he'd get that same reaction from them. Sasuke himself said Orochimaru made him sick, albeit not for the reasons Orochimaru makes most people sick. Although, Sasuke often tends to hide any reason that makes him look like he has feelings behind a reason that most people ordinarily wouldn't have picked, something common when he saved Naruto.

Basically, Orochimaru died the way he did to show how someone with such warped endeavors can only meet such a fate. Orochimaru dying at the end of an epic battle would've been epic, but for plot's sake, it's at least debatable it wouldn't have been the best end to his character villain-wise.

Although, just to put one more reason on top of it, it was the same arc in which Sasuke faced Itachi, which was massively climactic and epic. Itachi defeated Orochimaru near-effortlessly, and Sasuke doing the same thing showed how he had prepared himself to fight Itachi. If the same type of death to Orochimaru had occured in a different arc, it would've had a different take, but Orochimaru and Itachi died in the same arc, and Orochimaru's death was used as a prelude to Itachi's.

Notably in that arc, although not quite related, is the fact that Madara had been revealed as Tobi and that Madara required build-up to become the story's next major villain. In that arc, Pain was officially introduced, and his power was expositioned by defeating one of the Leaf's major powerhouses, his old mentor. It gave Naruto something to surpass while, at the same time, giving an intermediary villain who would take the spot of main antagonist while Madara slowly became the same guy we all know and hate.

This is getting off-topic, though. To answer the thread, I'd have to re-state my earlier question, which is: What defines the Legend Tier? Gaara is a Kazekage, and not only that, but a Kazekage whose sand control reaches that of the Shukaku's, and a Kazekage who used that power to surpass the previous Kazekage, his own father. He continues to fight against other Kages. I think for the Naruto universe, that's legend worthy.

Edit: Personally, I think fans of Orochimaru will simply have to settle for disappointment. The irony that Naruto fought Sasuke to keep him from going to Orochimaru, and that such a thing eventually resulted in Orochimaru's death, is something I don't think could have been portrayed as well in a long fight as opposed to a short one. Orochimaru was long doomed to the end he suffered, and the way he died also served into how Kabuto changed in personality and in power.

[NagatoGod_of_Pain]

Just adding, Orochimaru's death is irony at it's finest. There's a term for that in literature, but it slipped my mind.

[Frost ninja]

Dramatic irony could ve used, as we knew ahead of time what would happen.

[Super Sanin 3]

Well..i'ma start giving out Gaara's abilities to see if we can consider him Legend Tier

Automatic Sand Shield - Very useful indeed, protects you from your blindspots and while you're down or unable to protect yourself

Sand Armor - This does take alot of chakra, but it DOES come in handy, extra defense to make Gaara a true tank, this saved him during his fights(Rock Lee mainly)

Flight - If he gets in the air, you can't hurt him without long-range techniques, pretty useful in it's own way, and even better since he has his sand still protecting him

Sand Attacks - While his defense saves him from lethal damage, he sends WAVES of sand at the enemy, which is also fast itself, making it very difficult to dodge. You have to have great tanking skills to survive most of his attacks.

Shukaku - He's a jinchūriki, which [I]may[I] save him from genjutsu (although i doubt it) and gives him even more chakra. When he transforms into a mini-Shukaku, he becomes lethal in CQC aswell, letting him combat taijutsu users if he must(not to mention techniques like sand shuriken) or he can become the Shukaku and instantly become stronger than high level boss summons.

Sorry if i missed anything

[Frost ninja]

Ehikaku is only pre-sealing. Second off is his sand is fast, not per se his sand shield which lost out to weightless lee

[Super Sanin 3]

Ehikaku is only pre-sealing. Second off is his sand is fast, not per se his sand shield which lost out to weightless lee
Opps you're right about the sand thing `#(
But not sure what you mean by the sealing thing?

[Frost ninja]

Opps you're right about the sand thing `#(
But not sure what you mean by the sealing thing?

You said gaara had shikaku. Shikaku got removed early ship and sealed into the gazo. Thus Gaara only has shikaku in a pre-sealing situation.

[Super Sanin 3]

You said gaara had shikaku. Shikaku got removed early ship and sealed into the gazo. Thus Gaara only has shikaku in a pre-sealing situation.
Gaara at full power, in possession of Shukaku. Therefore at the beginning of shippuden, assuming that he can go into full-shukaku mode like against Naruto.
in OP `:P

[Frost ninja]

I'm aware, I'm simply stating in usual cases this isn't really a valid feat to use since most people put him at current state.

[Super Sanin 3]

On topic now Gaara is Legendary Tier IMO
I have to note that Gaara's power also changes with the enviroment, if he's in the desert, he's MUCH stronger, as you can see from the Gaara V.S. Deidara fight (Chapter 248 Page 10 and on if you wana skim it quick) Deidara was luckily very fast on his bird and airborne, i can't see many people dodging that, even more so on the ground where the ground itself can attack you

[Shikamaru Nara]

I have to note that Gaara's power also changes with the enviroment

Imo, this isn't worded very well. His power doesn't physically change with the environment, his attacks are just limited to the amount of sand he can carry in his gourd, which limits him, but doesn't make him weaker.

[Jinchiruuki]

Imo, this isn't worded very well. His power doesn't physically change with the environment, his attacks are just limited to the amount of sand he can carry in his gourd, which limits him, but doesn't make him weaker.

It either limits him or enhances the amount of sand he harnesses.

He can make sand if there is dirt, rocks etc around on the battlefield.

[Super Sanin 3]

Well by power i also mean the amount of sand, but i agree with the post above me. He has a wider variety of minerals to choose from when making his sand

[Rasen_Chidori]

Basically, unless the battle is on an iceberg or the ocean, Gaara technically would have as much sand as he would ever need.

[Super Sanin 3]

Basically, unless the battle is on an iceberg or the ocean, Gaara technically would have as much sand as he would ever need.
Could also be indoors, but really the more sand the better right?

[Shikamaru Nara]

Could also be indoors, but really the more sand the better right?

No areas in the Narutoverse that are in doors are big enough to fight in, other than the Chuunin exams stadium, which has sand and is technically outdoors.

[Super Sanin 3]

No areas in the Narutoverse that are in doors are big enough to fight in, other than the Chuunin exams stadium, which has sand and is technically outdoors.
I was thinking more on the lines of the Kage Summit

[Rasen_Chidori]

Chunnin exam prelininaries arena? Five Kage Summit where Sasuke fought A?

[Super Sanin 3]

But i would like to point out that Gaara does seem much weaker indoors when fighting Rock Lee and the little skirmish with Sasuke. His attacks were much better vs Kimi, Deidara and the E.T. Kages

[Jinchiruuki]

But i would like to point out that Gaara does seem much weaker indoors when fighting Rock Lee and the little skirmish with Sasuke. His attacks were much better vs Kimi, Deidara and the E.T. Kages

Weaker due to not having full control of Shukaku or not having the ability to supress its influence.

Same thing with Gaara vs Sasuke for that little bit.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Obviously, because he had way more space.

That wasn't necessarily because of the sand, although that may have helped. Didn't you notice how much bigger his attacks were than when he was fighting against Lee in the Chuunin Exams? That wasn't just because he had a bunch of new attacks, that was also because he had limited space.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Weaker due to not having full control of Shukaku or not having the ability to supress its influence.

Same thing with Gaara vs Sasuke for that little bit.

Well, he was clearly able to gain full control over the sand anyway by the time he was at the Kage summit, and was probably around the same power level, just without the powers of the Jinchuuriki, because that didn't control the sand anyway.

[Super Sanin 3]

Weaker due to not having full control of Shukaku or not having the ability to supress its influence.

Same thing with Gaara vs Sasuke for that little bit.
What about Rock Lee vs Gaara? I doubt it's the Shukaku's doing either, infact, I don't think Gaara used his sand making technique until after he stopped using Shukaku, since he would have used it on Sasuke

[Jinchiruuki]

Well, he was clearly able to gain full control over the sand anyway by the time he was at the Kage summit, and was probably around the same power level, just without the powers of the Jinchuuriki, because that didn't control the sand anyway.

Yeah because he didn't have Shukaku at the summit -_-

What about Rock Lee vs Gaara? I doubt it's the Shukaku's doing either, infact, I don't think Gaara used his sand making technique until after he stopped using Shukaku, since he would have used it on Sasuke

Even Baki stated Gaara was losing control a bit during his fight with Rock Lee.

He still had Shikaku though for his fight vs Kimimaro which is when he showed the ability to create new sand. Probably can still do it now too obviously.

Just stating he wasn't fully in control of himself for his fights with Rock Lee, Sasuke or Naruto. Making his feats then (besides the one with Kimimaro) hard to fully claim as feats or plot. He didn't stop using the One Tail either as seen when he used the Shukaku Sand Ultimate Defense against Kimimaro. Same with his fight with Deidara (Shukaku hands/arms).

[Super Sanin 3]

I forgot why we were debating about this `!:)
In this thread he HAS the Shukaku

[-nagato_uzumaki-]

wow im a noob, wats legend tier? someone give me a link?

[Super Sanin 3]

wow im a noob, wats legend tier? someone give me a link?
Basically is he strong enough to compete with the strongest in Naruto?

[-nagato_uzumaki-]

oh, you guys make it sound like theres a list because they're saying orochimaru shouldnt be in the tier that hes in because gaara could beat him

[Super Sanin 3]

oh, you guys make it sound like theres a list because they're saying orochimaru shouldnt be in the tier that hes in because gaara could beat him There is http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87663 or atleast a small one

[Roronoa Zoro]

There is http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87663 or atleast a small oneMy boy Itachi is up there `:)