Might Guy it NOT Legend Tier. Here's why. [Archive]

TheBlackChidori

08-11-2011, 02:39 AM

I'm getting it from all ends. "Why isn't guy above Kisame, he defeated Kisame! 7 Gates is instant win, no one can stop Afternoon Tiger! Etc Etc!"

I'm going to explain WHY Guy is not a legend, and WHY I won't put him in Legendary Tier, and WHY no one has succeeded in convincing me otherwise.

#1: Guy's complete lack of Genjutsu counters. He admits this in Chapter 143, stating he had to learn how to fight Kakashi by watching his feet. Now as impressive as that is, that automatically places him and a HUGE disadvantage to half the people on the tier list. Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, Nagato, and Danzo all possess extremely powerful Doujutsu, and are all proficient in Genjutsu. Now Guy can try and fight any of these guys just by looking at their feet, but is he really going to stand a chance in hell doing that? Then you have other Genjutsu users like Sage Mode Jiraiya. Guy is purely a Taijutsu fighter, he admits this. He can still use ninjutsu and summonings unlike Lee, but he's well aware that it's not his biggest strength.

And not to mention, we've seen that eye contact isn't a must for all genjutsu in recent chapters.

#2: His base power is far below Kage level. We all know Guy's biggest(And only) strength is the gates. We also knows how hesitant he is to use the gates, and the price it pays on him afterwards. Either way, he was up against a Kisame clone with 30% of Kisame's chakra. On chapter 258 Page 9, Kisame Jr. is completely overpowering him. Just baring down on Guy with his sword was enough to send Guy deep into the water and injure him. Keep in mind that this was with a water source Kiasme Jr brought with him, so this 30% Kisame had exhausted a large amount of his chakra already. Guy's only weapon against him in this fight was his Nunchaku, which were completely ineffective in the end. he opens 6 gates, morning peacock, the end. But either way, his base form was laughable up against just a fraction of a Legend Tier ninja.

#3: The stipulations of him opening the gates... Someone dear to him has to be in danger of death. The first time we see him open it, his team is drowning. The second time, Kisame is trying to escape with information that could destroy Konoha. But giving Guy an instant 7-gates power-up in his fights and basing all your debating off of that... In that case, Hiruzen Sarutobi should be high up in legend tier, since he can use the Shinigami and just rip the souls out of people. =/

Either way, his strongest abilities in gates: Morning Peacock, afternoon tiger. He claimed Afternoon Tiger was a one-hit kill, but Kisame still managed to survive it.

People seem to think Afternoon Tiger is just this ABSURDLY powerful jutsu that no one can stop. Let me give you a play by play of how this went down...

Naruto goes into RS mode the first time, and senses Kisame inside sharkskin.
Naruto blitzes Kisame, hits him hard enough that Kisame spits up blood.(505-13)
Naruto gets stuck so Kisame continues to flee, Bee goes after him.
Guy is staring at the waterfall, trying to find what true evil lurks beneath, a weird bug appears.
Guy kicks it immediately thinking it's his inner evil.
That's not a bug, it's a pufferfish!
This is twice that Kisame had been attacked and put into a wall.
Kisame emerges from the Sharkskin cocoon, we see that he is much much skinnier than usual from not eating for weeks and being confined in a small place so long.
(506-3) Aoba: It's that shark guy who was with Itachi...he seems pretty weakened!
Kisame manages to fool KB with sharkskin and absorbs some of his chakra, gains a bit of power back. He escapes, Guy opens the sixth gate, and Bee throws him after Kisame.
Kisame is seen placing a scroll inside a sharks mouth, and is confronted by Guy. In an attempt to disguise which shark is real, he summons 1000 of them.
Guy uses Morning Peacock to try to stop the sharks. It doesn't work.
Guy opens the 7th gate, and uses Afternoon Tiger. Kisame tries to counter it with a chakra absorbing Giant Shark Missile. A good plan except it's not a chakra attack.
Next panel, Guy is seen standing over Kisame. Kisame is burned and bruised badly, but is still conscious and even talking to Guy. He even manages to move his hand.
Guy punches him again hard in the stomach, still in 7 gates.
Kisame is seen captured with 6 elite shinobi standing around him.
Brain probe. Kisame bites his tongue, wakes himself up, breaks the guillotine-looking trap he's in. Mokuton too to supress his chakra.
Kisame creates a wall of water, Guy is unable to punch through it.
Kisame summons sharks, they eat him, the scroll he leaves behind catches Guy and everyone else in a water prison they cant escape from.
Guy is then unconscious and has shredded muscles for the next few weeks.

Wow. LEGENDARY. he didn't even managed to injure Kisame enough for 6 shinobi to keep him in check. And this was a Kisame without Samehada, his best weapon.

That is Guy's strongest attack in his strongest form. It wasn't even enough to cause dismemberment. And this was on an opponent who's goal was to transport his scroll away safely and then absorb chakra from a non-chakra based attack. Basically he had timing and lack of knowledge on his side.

When Shinobi on this tier list are matched against eachother, they have knowledge. Kisame isn't going to try to absorb Guy's attack if he knows he can't. He's going to do something like trap him in a Water Dome and destroy him, provided he has possession of Samehada. Kisame was at a HUGE handicap.

He was starved, weakened, running off an outside source chakra he had absorbed 30 seconds before the fight, attempting to escape with information, didn't have possession of his sword, and had no knowledge of the attack that was about to be used on him....

That is the biggest handicap I've ever seen in any fight in this series.

I respect Guy, I respect AT, I respect the gates. For that reason, I keep him at the top of the Kage Tier, above Shinobi who are arguably better than him, like Sasori, Deidara, Kakashi, but whatever... people still try to wank Guy.

I'll add one more point.

#4: Intelligence. It's an important factor. All the databooks have it listed as one of the 8 Shinobi statistics. Guy carries a 3 in this category... And we've seen why. He is brute force fighter that won't hesitate to charge in head first. His best weapon outside of gates are a close-range set of nunchaku. He is a brilliant martial-artist who doesn't think before acting, such as opening the scroll after Kisame's death and him and his team being outsmarted by the Kisame clone and being caught. He doesn't even remember Kisame after 3 fights, preventing him from retaining any information on what his opponents jutsu can do and how he can counter them.

If given prep in a fight, was is Guy going to do? Absolutely nothing, he's not that type of fighter. His only notable achievement in this category is figuring out a way to combat the Sharingan, but even that is flawed. Some people like Shikamaru are higher on the list because of their intelligence. Obviously he's not a powerful fighter so he's kept fairly low, but that stat carries him.

Either way, a move like Afternoon Tiger that couldn't kill Kisame. What's it going to do with someone who has Bijuu durability like Killer Bee or Naruto? Someone like Nagato who can repel all the air around him, no matter what it is. A shinobi like Danzo who can literally control life or death with Izanagi, or the endless regurgitator, Orochimaru? Someone like Kisame is up there because he has feats like nearly killing Killer Bee, a sword that could arguably absorb something as powerful as FRS, and the chakra of a tailed-beast. FEATS get you everywhere.

And in no way throughout this manga have I been convinced that Gate speed is anywhere near the speed of shinobi like A and Minato. Kishi has the characters actually say things like "A: I'm the fastest Shinobi alive, and only Minato was able to dodge my fastest attack." That's what we call a verbal feat. Guy has not been in a footrace with the Raikage while in gates, so we can't compare their speed. So assuming that he can speedblitz anyone because Rock Lee was faster than Gaara's sand... (He was even faster in Base form if you recall, once his weights were gone). Clearly that's not an accomplishment these days because even Deidara was able to casually outrun his sand.

No. Gates do not make you faster than anyone in the series or stronger than anyone in the series. It's a temporary boost in power that allows fodder ninja to actually be important to a storyline of characters that have long-since surpassed them.

Midnight789

08-11-2011, 07:00 AM

every thing u said in this Thread is completely Wrong..

1) u keep assuming that looking at the feet of a shringan user is the only concept of his fighting tech. against them.. Gai accroding to chapter 143 page 10-15, he explained to them only the basic of that tech. how do u know this tech. wont do good against other eye contact users.. if Itachi thought like u did .. why would he tell Kisame and the A team on Numerous occasions not to underestimate Gai sensi

2) What!!.. his base form meaning with Weights like Rock Lee has shown to be faster or the same as Kakashi!! his base strength was also able to throw a Jounin threw a concrete wall!!.. he was so fast and strong that the enemy could not even finish his sentence. when Gai was facing Kisame in there second fight he was already in a disadvantage.. Kisame at 30% had the same amount of Chakra or close to as Nartuo stated by Neji Gai unlike must characters in the show does not use Chakra enhancement Jutsus.. He is Pure Gai was doing pretty well against Kisame.. he was distracted by Tenten cause she could not hold her breath when Kisame Punch Gai.. yes he fell in the water.. but as soon as he opened the 6th gate.. the match was over.. Kisame should no sort of defense against his Morning Peacock.. which was Stated by Kakashi's dog to be Overkill!!!.. but the only way to end it quickly was to use this move.... His base form speed and Strength is greater than Kakuzu for sure!!!!! it is not laughable!.. the way u see him as weak is laughable

3) What are U Saying!!!!!!!.. Gai can open the Gates with Ease. does not matter if he start in it or without it.. it takes milli-seconds.. Not only are the Morning Peacock, and the Afternoon Tiger His strongest Moves.. but also the Fastest Tai-Justu Moves in the Show he is the only able enough to display such power beneath his attacks to create fire through just punching also the Afternoon Tiger is Just A SIMPLE PUNCH!!!!!!! NOW WHAT PUNCH IN THE DAMN SHOW HAVE U SEEN DO THIS MUCH DAMAGE ur mistake is that ur comparing it to moves that are ninja base move(NinJutsu)... he said it himself that it is a SIMPLE PUNCH!! he also showed no sign of weakness while using it.. stand on top of Kisame with Confidence!!

In there Third and Last Fight..Kisame was weak.. i agree.. But his absorbed Must of Killer Bee and Aboa Chakra.. Who is in an advantage man!!!... we saw the pros of him absorbing there chakra.. his whole body structure went from urs to Broly's..(joking)..

and the most important thing about this fight was that GAI WAS TRYING TO KEEP KISAME ALIVE!!!!... HE HAD MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO KILL HIM BUT HE DID NOT!..

BY THE WAY THE MORNING PEACOCK DID WORK!!.. HE DESTROYED ALL OF THE SHARKS UP TOP.. HE JUST DID NOT AIM DOWN IF U LOOK!

Gai was on Kisame Truff!! what more do u want!! this proves that no Matter How Much Chakra a person has. it is not going to effect Gai Sensi!

all am saying is that he deserves to be up there with the legendary... saying that his Gates only is compared to Kage Level is outrageous

also no one is wanking him.. if i think anyone needs more respect and apprehension i will fight for that!!

Midnight789

08-11-2011, 07:07 AM

also ur soo wrong about His Intelligence!!! calling him stupid for not remembering someone is stupid.. he IS COMIC RELIEF THAT IS PART OF HIS CHARACTERISTICS

He created the Morning Peacock, Afternoon Tiger and was shown to open 7 of the 8 Gates.. Kakashi is only capable of opening just one.. HE CALLED LEE A GENIUS FOR OPENING FIVE!!!!!

Frost ninja

08-11-2011, 12:06 PM

There is a point...

Kisame was to be kept alive, so its pretty ideal not to kill him.

30% Kisame is also no slouch, since kisame himself is always regarded as a tailed beat with no tail, I'm pretty sure 30% of a destructive embodyment of chakra is still a good amount.

As far as the genjutsu goes, those characters have a huge advantage over almost everyone. Naruto, for example, is easily the fastest character and one of the strongest but still has issues dealing with Genjutsu. Does he not belong in legend tier for that? Genjutsu isn't very widespread, so losing out to a select few that almost everyone elses loses out to isn't a big issue. At least he has somewhat of a counter.

As for gates, he doesn't take long to open them and the amount of speed and power is immense. His fists move fast enough to create fire, which is minimum mach 25 (the speed shuttles reach upon reentry that causes fire, though they go through much more intense conditions and have more mass to build momentum and friction with), possibly much more considering that his hands are going off of basic muscle power and have much much smaller mass and are in a stable atmosphere. Not to mention he can create lasting flames underwater, meaning his arms have to be moving at a speed fast enough to cause ionization and seperate the oxygen from the hydrogen in the water for the fire to carry off of, something that is achieved by running electricity through water. Ionization and electricity move at different speeds, where as electricity is a sort of catalyst for ionization it sill moves at about 182,000 m/s. Ionization iself requires light-esque speed to be done via speed alone, as thats the rate at which molecules begin to forcibily detatch themselves.

(ionization being the substitute term for the proper word, of which the scientific name I am not sure of)

So adding that into momentum, you've got a hugely powerful punch.

Plus AT is a sonic-boom type blast done off of a single simple punch. Being that as it is, that means he punches at a minimum of supersonic, or possibly more as the sonic boom was fast enough to maintain its shape and travel underwater where there is much more resistance. A sonicboom expands outwards, so needless to say moving so fast that it doesnt have time to expand is also pretty extreme speed, as well as doing so under the water in which supersonic bullets lose some 95% of their total speed in the first few seconds. So the shockwave must either be moving fast enough to prevent expansion underwater, or move with enough force to maintain composition despite the resistances. For the sake of plausability, lets say its power.

Bullets moving with an explosion in the back can travel, if shot straight, quite a distance. Sniper bullets travel well over a mile going off of its force. Now when traveling through water, these forces that propel the bullets at supersonic speeds are muffled to only allow a travel of a foot, maybe a yard at the most. Now a sniper bullet, or rather a 50 caliber bullet, has the force to blow a nice sized hole into someone. This is off of bullet-based force.

Lets assume that a 50 caliber can go five yrds when shot into water, 15 ft in comparison to lets say 3 miles. This means theres a 352x distance reduction.

Now lets take AT, which traveled several meters underwater going off of one single punch. In fact one may be so bold as to say perhaps 25 meters or so. 1 meter is 3.2 ft, 3.2 x 25 is about 79 or so. Now multiply that by the 352x, and we get a resulting 28,000 speed attack when preformed above water. It can travel 28,000 miles, now if we also carry over that bullets are moving at 343 m/s, the bullet can travel those 3 miles in about 5 seconds. Carry that over into the AT's speed and you've got yourself an amazingly high speed attack (someone provide calcs?)

So.... yeah.

THE X UCHIHA

08-11-2011, 12:42 PM

we r not saying' that Kisame is not a legend.

NagatoGod_of_Pain

08-11-2011, 01:52 PM

RINNEMAN1

08-11-2011, 02:14 PM

I'm ending this here http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5418606#post5418606

TheBlackChidori

08-11-2011, 02:19 PM

THE X UCHIHA

08-11-2011, 04:44 PM

However being Guy in the legendary tier or not , this is not gonna change anything in NarutoVerse 'cuz Guy would beat Kisame at any matchup due to the feats shown.

TheBlackChidori

08-11-2011, 05:54 PM

However being Guy in the legendary tier or not , this is not gonna change anything in NarutoVerse 'cuz Guy would beat Kisame at any matchup due to the feats shown.

Clearly you didn't read my post and see the handicap Guy was given in this fight.

Kisame was starved, weakened, running off an outside source chakra he had absorbed 30 seconds before the fight, attempting to escape with information, didn't have possession of his sword, and had no knowledge of the attack that was about to be used on him....

Face to face, Samehada in hand, Water dome and Samehada fusion would be enough to incapacitate Guy.

Midnight789

08-11-2011, 06:12 PM

Midnight789

08-11-2011, 06:14 PM

Midnight you're a broken record and have only convinced me of the importance of Spelling Bees in school.

Frost, don't try to bring numbers into this. There is no possible way you can measure Guy's distance through paneling and comparison to a real life gunshot. 90% of the characters in the series have used attacks that make bullets seem slow, it gets you nowhere. Trying to use numbers to decide who would win in a fight in an anime, dumbest crap ever.

I Think She made several good Points.. u just dont seem to understand... dont take this personally,,, im getting the feeling that ur only not putting him on the legendary tier because of me..lol

Wooster

08-11-2011, 09:02 PM

I am proud, TBC. You just pulled a Sticky recap( what we should all call this now) on the Kisame v. Guy Round 2. :lol:

Of course you are wrong in one point, the biggest handicap of any fight was Danzo when he fought Sasuke.

THE X UCHIHA

08-11-2011, 09:38 PM

Clearly you didn't read my post and see the handicap Guy was given in this fight.

Kisame was starved, weakened, running off an outside source chakra he had absorbed 30 seconds before the fight, attempting to escape with information, didn't have possession of his sword, and had no knowledge of the attack that was about to be used on him....

Face to face, Samehada in hand, Water dome and Samehada fusion would be enough to incapacitate Guy.

I'm not kid so I say something without reading ur post believe me I did read ur post, that's right Kisame was so weak then and though survived the afternoon tiger but still with the feats guy shown , Kisame is unable to beat him even if the samehada was still with him 'cuz it can't provide Kisame with chakra since all what Guy uses is taijutsu.I also know that Kisame deserve to be in the legendary-tier he's the best swordman in the hidden mist and not mention with only 30% of his power he was able to force Guy open gate 6 ... but in his final battle with Guy Kisame was totally able to attack Guy wth thousand sharks and that means he still have the chakra at that time and not totally weak as u stated and still the feats Guy shown at gate 7 undeniable at all and I think it can cause major damages to Kisame while in prime , on the other hand Kisame has shown the same feats whether when he was damaged or healthy without any changes in the strength level of his attacks and furthermore in NarutoVerse no one gonna say Kisame>Guy since he already won him in that fight so I was referring to that point in my last post and not because I didn't read yours.

back to the water dome thing , I already stated in another thread that Guy has the ability to fight under watery circumstances and that when he opened gate 6 against 30% Kisame however he can just simply summon that turtle which can swim or throw him up into the air.

Phoenix Wright

08-11-2011, 11:48 PM

Midnight you're a broken record and have only convinced me of the importance of Spelling Bees in school.

Frost, don't try to bring numbers into this. There is no possible way you can measure Guy's distance through paneling and comparison to a real life gunshot. 90% of the characters in the series have used attacks that make bullets seem slow, it gets you nowhere. Trying to use numbers to decide who would win in a fight in an anime, dumbest crap ever.
I've only said that 400 times, taking and analyzing a drawing that totally was drawn for exact 100% physics accuracy and realistics and definitely not something like entertainment, is horrible, faulty, and retarded logic. Calculations suck.

TheBlackChidori

08-12-2011, 12:22 AM

does not matter what u say anymore.. Majority says that Gai should be in Legendary.. face it!..

Lol What majority? You and 3 other people that endlessly repeat the same points?

I'm not kid so I say something without reading ur post believe me I did read ur post, that's right Kisame was so weak then and though survived the afternoon tiger but still with the feats guy shown , Kisame is unable to beat him even if the samehada was still with him 'cuz it can't provide Kisame with chakra since all what Guy uses is taijutsu.I also know that Kisame deserve to be in the legendary-tier he's the best swordman in the hidden mist and not mention with only 30% of his power he was able to force Guy open gate 6 ... but in his final battle with Guy Kisame was totally able to attack Guy wth thousand sharks and that means he still have the chakra at that time and not totally weak as u stated and still the feats Guy shown at gate 7 undeniable at all and I think it can cause major damages to Kisame while in prime , on the other hand Kisame has shown the same feats whether when he was damaged or healthy without any changes in the strength level of his attacks and furthermore in NarutoVerse no one gonna say Kisame>Guy since he already won him in that fight so I was referring to that point in my last post and not because I didn't read yours.

back to the water dome thing , I already stated in another thread that Guy has the ability to fight under watery circumstances and that when he opened gate 6 against 30% Kisame however he can just simply summon that turtle which can swim or throw him up into the air.

How would Samehada not affect Guy's attacks? Guy still has to use chakra to power his attacks up, and Samehada is powerful enough to drain Killer Bee to nearly absolute zero.

Do you not remember how much B struggled against Kisame? Kisame nearly killed him on two occasions on that fight, and this was just Kisame trying to Capture Bee... he wasn't even going in for the kill. So unless you want to sit here and say that Guy is superior to Killer Bee, throw me some new points.

When will people understand that Guy SURPRISED Kisame? When will people realize that Guy's strongest attack didn't even knock Kisame unconscious?

One single punch from 30% Kisame to Guy smashed him to the bottom of the lake in their fight. Kisame prefers close-range combat.

If Kisame catches Guy in a water dome, Guy CANNOT DO A THING. He even managed to overwhelm Morning Peacock when Guy chased after him.

And the main point I can make is that Kisame with Samehada can cure his injuries. If Guy manages to get Afternoon Tiger off on Kisame, he can just fuse with Sharksin and heal his injuries. I highly doubt Guy can use AT twice. He managed to tank a Lariat from V2 Killer Bee, and because of Samehada he fused and healed his injuries. He had most of his midsection ripped off, AT didn't do crap for damage. Like for serious guys, are you really still arguing this? Kisame could have continued fighting after AT, if he had Samehada. And that's what the tier list is, characters in their prime. Therefore he has Samehada in his fight.

I've only said that 400 times, taking and analyzing a drawing that totally was drawn for exact 100% physics accuracy and realistics and definitely not something like entertainment, is horrible, faulty, and retarded logic. Calculations suck.

For real. It's like people think Kishi is some mathematical genius who calculates his attacks and distances and speed before he even draws them. =/ "Oh well he moved at least 50 yards in one panel, that's considered supersonic, he's faster!"

This is not calculus. This is Naruto.

Jose

08-12-2011, 01:17 AM

Guytards. >.<

Ok I will put this very simple.

30% Kisame managed to capture Ten Ten, Lee, Neji. He also forced Guy into 6 gates because that is the only way Guy can win 30% not even half of Kisame for Guy to go 6 gates.

Now I say Kisame was at 45 or 50% at best when he faced Guy again without his Samehada and Guy went all the way up to 7 gates.

Now with Killer Bee, Kisame was 100% had Samehada and look what happen pure ownage, Kisame wasnt even defeated it was all part of his plan to get intel.

Or are you telling me Guy > Killer Bee?

Kisame > Guy anyday of the week.

THE X UCHIHA

08-12-2011, 01:42 AM

Lol What majority? You and 3 other people that endlessly repeat the same points?

we shouldn't judge by the majority vote.

How would Samehada not affect Guy's attacks? Guy still has to use chakra to power his attacks up, and Samehada is powerful enough to drain Killer Bee to nearly absolute zero.

the chakra gates opened from the inside increasing his stamina ,speed and body power to a larger level Samehada can absorb that chakra ,that's right but there isn't any elemental chakra enclosing him when he opens a gate so the Samehada can absorb.

However if Samehada stuck Guy all wut Guy needs is to Dynamic Entry the Samehada just like Kisame did when kicked it off and it wouldn't take him 1 sec.

Do you not remember how much B struggled against Kisame? Kisame nearly killed him on two occasions on that fight, and this was just Kisame trying to Capture Bee... he wasn't even going in for the kill. So unless you want to sit here and say that Guy is superior to Killer Bee, throw me some new points.

Sure , I do remember but just like I told u the chakra wouldn't enclose Guy when he A.T's 'cause it all about an air pressure so there's nothin' for the Samehada to absorb.

[QWhen will people understand that Guy SURPRISED Kisame? When will people realize that Guy's strongest attack didn't even knock Kisame unconscious?

I do understand , but u know better than me that feats r the only thing that matters in BGing no one cares about who was weakened more than the other .. those are highly experienced shinobis and they struggled many times before so they are not gonna get weak just like that However u r right Kisame survived that attack but he ended up half-dead afterwards I know he was already tired and exhausted bfr but this is not an excuse , nagato was about reaching his limits when he used CT but though he revived everyone he killed afterwards , also Sasuke who used Susano'o like more than 4 times as I can remember against Danzo so still being Kisame in his prime doesn't make him winning.

One single punch from 30% Kisame to Guy smashed him to the bottom of the lake in their fight. Kisame prefers close-range combat.

well tell me wut hapnd after gate six opened.

If Kisame catches Guy in a water dome, Guy CANNOT DO A THING. He even managed to overwhelm Morning Peacock when Guy chased after him.

do u remember when Guy was under Kisame's water then opened gate 6 and after the battle was finished the water got evaporated.

And the main point I can make is that Kisame with Samehada can cure his injuries. If Guy manages to get Afternoon Tiger off on Kisame, he can just fuse with Sharksin and heal his injuries. I highly doubt Guy can use AT twice. He managed to tank a Lariat from V2 Killer Bee, and because of Samehada he fused and healed his injuries. He had most of his midsection ripped off, AT didn't do crap for damage. Like for serious guys, are you really still arguing this? Kisame could have continued fighting after AT, if he had Samehada. And that's what the tier list is, characters in their prime. Therefore he has Samehada in his fight.

when Guy caught up to Kisame , Kisame didn't have the samehada in his hands which is quite obvious that since the moment Samehada turned to B .. Kisame and by the " feats .... chapter by chapter " system shouldn't have the Samehada in any matchup only if stipulated and to be honest I think u r right about that point well that ability can make things harder for Guy but Samehada was actually treating Kisame with the chakra absorbed from B's cloak so in Guys case where there's no chakra absorbed I doubt Kisame could do it perfectly.

For real. It's like people think Kishi is some mathematical genius who calculates his attacks and distances and speed before he even draws them. =/ "Oh well he moved at least 50 yards in one panel, that's considered supersonic, he's faster!"

lol about that , it's just a freakin' fictional manga that depends on the author's Imagination and the drawers hands there're no calcs involved in this process , well in Anime they need those calcs so as to design the animation and motion of charectars thus they need such things like distance ,speed .. etc. that's all

This is not calculus. This is Naruto.

thanx , I hate math by the way xD!

[Shikamaru]

08-12-2011, 06:09 AM

He's obviously the most impressive Martial Arts expert thus far shown in the manga.

Clearly already making him legendary tier without gates.

I'll give it to you one way. He struck him twice already in 7 gates. On seperate encounters.

Should I

1. Believe your fodder baseless featless talk of him being faster than Guy

or

2. Go by the feats and take it Guy is faster and probably could easily circle round and obliterate him with punches if he was given the intent to kill.

I'll go with what the manga says. 2.

The samehada is a now a rogue weapon. Kisame is basically useless without it. It was his only strength. The reason why he didn't dodge wasn't because he was starving, tired or weak. It was because he can't dodge much of anything. He can only guard and suck chakra, with the Samehada.

Midnight789

08-12-2011, 06:26 AM

^^ Exactly..

too tired to write more..lol

TheBlackChidori

08-12-2011, 01:26 PM

However if Samehada stuck Guy all wut Guy needs is to Dynamic Entry the Samehada just like Kisame did when kicked it off and it wouldn't take him 1 sec.

Horrible strategy. If Guy tries to attack Kisame's weapon, that just leaves him wide open from an attack from Kisame, who has superhuman strength, as quoted by Guy.

Sure , I do remember but just like I told u the chakra wouldn't enclose Guy when he A.T's 'cause it all about an air pressure so there's nothin' for the Samehada to absorb.

Prove Samehada wouldn't absorb any of it. I've yet to see Samehada not absorb anything its user intended to absorb. Kisame's Shark Missile Jutsu and his sword are two completely different weapons.

do u remember when Guy was under Kisame's water then opened gate 6 and after the battle was finished the water got evaporated.

A small lake of water created by Kisame's chakra is much different from a large dome of water bearing down on you with thousands and thousands of pounds of pressure, enough to keep even a pissed off Jinchiruuki confined.

when Guy caught up to Kisame , Kisame didn't have the samehada in his hands which is quite obvious that since the moment Samehada turned to B .. Kisame and by the " feats .... chapter by chapter " system shouldn't have the Samehada in any matchup only if stipulated and to be honest I think u r right about that point well that ability can make things harder for Guy but Samehada was actually treating Kisame with the chakra absorbed from B's cloak so in Guys case where there's no chakra absorbed I doubt Kisame could do it perfectly.

Clearly you guys aren't getting the point of this list. It is the characters in their PRIME, at their strongest points in the series, with all their best weapons included. This would mean for instance, Itachi with Susano'o Sword and Mirror, or Naruto in RS mode rather then Sage Mode or Kyuubi mode, Sasuke with MS, etc etc. It's not "Put two characters together in a match that happened in the series and decide the victor." Because no, Kisame was not prime in their fight.

If you want feats, go watch Kisame Vs. Killer Bee again. And if you wanna start the debate of Guy being better then Killer Bee after that, I'll be sure to prove you guys wrong again.

1. Believe your fodder baseless featless talk of him being faster than Guy

or

2. Go by the feats and take it Guy is faster and probably could easily circle round and obliterate him with punches if he was given the intent to kill.

I'll go with what the manga says. 2.

The samehada is a now a rogue weapon. Kisame is basically useless without it. It was his only strength. The reason why he didn't dodge wasn't because he was starving, tired or weak. It was because he can't dodge much of anything. He can only guard and suck chakra, with the Samehada.

1. See above. If you want feats, go watch Kisame Vs. Killer Bee again. And if you wanna start the debate of Guy being better then Killer Bee after that, I'll be sure to prove you guys wrong again.

2. Kisame and Guy never got into a speed fight, so I don't know what part of your ass you're pulling this one from. :p

The only times in their match up speed was compared was first off when Guy used Morning Peacock to combat Kisame's sharks, he couldn't punch fast enough to cover all the sharks(That were I say again, trying to escape, not attack.) The second time they compared speed is when they both launched Giant Shark Missiles Vs. Afternoon Tiger, both of which were released at the same time. So where you're getting the feats that Guy is faster, when he was thrown at Kisame from a Jinchiruuki, I don't know. Yes. Guy is most likely faster then Kisame when in 7-Gates. I'm just wondering where you're pulling these feats from? I mean all my comments are fodder, so you know, just trying to... understand... the opponent?

And once again... Kisame would have Samehada in their Tier List match-up.

Midnight789

08-12-2011, 02:15 PM

Horrible strategy. If Guy tries to attack Kisame's weapon, that just leaves him wide open from an attack from Kisame, who has superhuman strength, as quoted by Guy.

up.

LOL... CHAPTER 257 PAGE 12-13

u need to do ur research before talking stupidness!!..Kisame's sword will do nothing in this fight.. Gai has shown to take it away with ease in base read it.. go on read the chapter and page i gave u

J-Sun Tasogare

08-12-2011, 02:28 PM

LOL... CHAPTER 257 PAGE 12-13

u need to do ur research before talking stupidness!!..Kisame's sword will do nothing in this fight.. Gai has shown to take it away with ease in base read it.. go on read the chapter and page i gave u
I find this ironic, seeing as how this was 30% Gai and even then when it was taken away it stabbed his hands iirc. Even after disarming him and having three people they still couldn't get to him. Also he can summon the sword to him 258 Page 3. So lets see, Gai kicks it out, he either wields it or throws it away, he wields it, he gets stabbed or his arm gets bit off, he throws it away, it comes back to Kisame, all Gai did was waster his energy and gave Kisame an opening.

Midnight789

08-12-2011, 02:34 PM

Midnight789

08-12-2011, 02:39 PM

I find this ironic, seeing as how this was 30% Gai and even then when it was taken away it stabbed his hands iirc. Even after disarming him and having three people they still couldn't get to him. Also he can summon the sword to him 258 Page 3. So lets see, Gai kicks it out, he either wields it or throws it away, he wields it, he gets stabbed or his arm gets bit off, he throws it away, it comes back to Kisame, all Gai did was waster his energy and gave Kisame an opening.

the reason i gave that was to prove that Gai can take the sword away....lol.. people dont really understand.. Kisame at 30% had CHAKRA SIMILAR TO NARUTO OWN CHAKRA GAI IS ALREADY IN A DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE HE DOES NOT USE CHAKRA TO FIGHT.

it was pretty funny how he got stabbed but i dont he will make the same mistake... oh wait he didnt.. what happen when he used the Morning Peacock.. well he actually let Kisame swing his sword.......... that did not work.. Gai threw a kick and sent him and his sword flying.. Kisame May if had 30% of his chakra but that had nothing to do with his movement and reaction feast

J-Sun Tasogare

08-12-2011, 02:46 PM

Jinchiruuki

08-12-2011, 02:48 PM

the reason i gave that was to prove that Gai can take the sword away....lol.. people dont really understand.. Kisame at 30% had CHAKRA SIMILAR TO NARUTO OWN CHAKRA GAI IS ALREADY IN A DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE HE DOES NOT USE CHAKRA TO FIGHT.

it was pretty funny how he got stabbed but i dont he will make the same mistake... oh wait he didnt.. what happen when he used the Morning Peacock.. well he actually let Kisame swing his sword.......... that did not work.. Gai threw a kick and sent him and his sword flying.. Kisame May if had 30% of his chakra but that had nothing to do with his movement and reaction feast

Stop wanking.

Guy got his ass whooped by a 30% Kisame clone until he forced himself to go gates.

And yes it does have to do with reaction and speed...IT'S A CLONE using a real human body meaning what now?

1) Not the same physical strength or speed of the original.
2) Not the exact reaction time either.
3) The samehada seen with that clone was NOT the original. So of course it wasn't anywhere near as good as the original.

Check out Kisame's fight with KB, his reaction time to KB's speedy attacks is far above the 30% clone vs Guy.

Oh and how about Samehada taking Killer Bee from Tailed State 2 to just a 1-2 tailed cloak.

Midnight789

08-12-2011, 02:58 PM

Stop wanking.

Guy got his ass whooped by a 30% Kisame clone until he forced himself to go gates.

And yes it does have to do with reaction and speed...IT'S A CLONE using a real human body meaning what now?

1) Not the same physical strength or speed of the original.
2) Not the exact reaction time either.
3) The samehada seen with that clone was NOT the original. So of course it wasn't anywhere near as good as the original.

Check out Kisame's fight with KB, his reaction time to KB's speedy attacks is far above the 30% clone vs Guy.

Oh and how about Samehada taking Killer Bee from Tailed State 2 to just a 1-2 tailed cloak.

actually u are completely wrong this Justu Lets the User possess all there Phyical Attribute but requires only 30% of chakra to be used.. this would not matter to Kisame his chakra in 30% was like Naruto!!!

anyways when did Gai not react to Kisame's attacks.. ohh right when HE WAS DISTRACTED BY TENTEN

Gai was not getting his ass kicked in that fight.. judging that he was fight Kisame on Kisame's truff and only using Tai-Jutsu.. ill say he was doing very well... he only got knock down the water because he was DISTRACTED BY TENTEN.

IM NOT WANKING.. im debating

Kisame had nothing against Morning Peacock .. even if he had all his chakra.. he showed no signs of dodging the attack!! his sword was useless at that put when he opened the 6th Gate.. which was to save TenTen Not HIM SELF!!

J-Sun Tasogare

08-12-2011, 03:06 PM

Yori

08-12-2011, 03:10 PM

..... and there is also the part where Kisame had enough strength to break the hold they had on him, Do the water prison technique, & a summoning....

If Afternoon Tiger was really how it was made out to be Kisame would have been KO'd

Jinchiruuki

08-12-2011, 03:13 PM

actually u are completely wrong this Justu Lets the User possess all there Phyical Attribute but requires only 30% of chakra to be used.. this would not matter to Kisame his chakra in 30% was like Naruto!!!

anyways when did Gai not react to Kisame's attacks.. ohh right when HE WAS DISTRACTED BY TENTEN

Gai was not getting his ass kicked in that fight.. judging that he was fight Kisame on Kisame's truff and only using Tai-Jutsu.. ill say he was doing very well... he only got knock down the water because he was DISTRACTED BY TENTEN.

IM NOT WANKING.. im debating

Kisame had nothing against Morning Peacock .. even if he had all his chakra.. he showed no signs of dodging the attack!! his sword was useless at that put when he opened the 6th Gate.. which was to save TenTen Not HIM SELF!!

You are totally wanking.

Where was he distracted by Tenten? Oh J-Sun just proved you wrong there. Also will add he trapped the rest of the team in water prisons.

Plot. Plot. and again Plot.

Guy was getting his ass whooped for majority of the fight.
Plot came in and rescued him from the Sharks and he went gates and won.

Again you are wanking the hell out of this. You are arguing plot filled situations rather than feats such as Kisame's Samehada reduced Killer Bee from a Tailed 2 State to a Cloaked state. Meaning Gates...which is what? Oh Chakra that's right, could be easily sucked away before Guy has a chance to do anything.

Again, stop being a Guytard wanker.

Chapter 258 Page 4 and then 9 he gets slammed into the water and nowhere is Tenten shown. Also it was pretty much plot that he was even able to open gates considering sharks were already next to him. They weren't on his turf, they were ambushed, but Gai isn't going to be able to stop Kisame from doing the same thing again. He only even used Gates because he was about to die.

^More proof.

Frost ninja

08-12-2011, 03:21 PM

Frost, don't try to bring numbers into this. There is no possible way you can measure Guy's distance through paneling and comparison to a real life gunshot. 90% of the characters in the series have used attacks that make bullets seem slow, it gets you nowhere. Trying to use numbers to decide who would win in a fight in an anime, dumbest crap ever.

^^ See: The flash

Speed of strikes are important. If he indeed has the speed to create friction and fires, this adds into his overall power. After all, as in often the case with the flash, speed is power. Momentum makes mass. Hence the IMP making the flash more than just a fast guy, the speed of a punch makes might guy have a lot more power than your assuming.

Numbers are numbers. I referenced a bullet to show the resistance of water to motion, as well as giving a comparison of power. Nowhere did I compare a bullet and might guy in speed. Now if you truely believe my numbers are useless and using numbers is the "dumbest crap ever" then you shouldn't have much trouble disproving my claim in some way or another. Show me why we should disregard physics and science, simply because its an anime. We don't do so for comics, why should we do so now?

THE X UCHIHA

08-12-2011, 04:46 PM

Horrible strategy. If Guy tries to attack Kisame's weapon, that just leaves him wide open from an attack from Kisame, who has superhuman strength, as quoted by Guy.

at a close range ,Kisame using his hands to catch Samehada and hit Guy with , makes it stuck for few moments and then Guy's chakra is absorbed but bfr that ,Guy can easily kick it and then rotate himself and kick Kisame's face either and this won't take moments especially when gate 6 opened.

Prove Samehada wouldn't absorb any of it. I've yet to see Samehada not absorb anything its user intended to absorb. Kisame's Shark Missile Jutsu and his sword are two completely different weapons.

then why don't u prove it would and still we've never seen it absorbing Guy's chakra at the first time they met each other in the shippuuden.

waterdome ,sharks and such r all effectless against M.P and A.T ,this is proven.

A small lake of water created by Kisame's chakra is much different from a large dome of water bearing down on you with thousands and thousands of pounds of pressure, enough to keep even a pissed off Jinchiruuki confined.

the large water dome starts with a moderate amounts thrown up into the air and it takes like 3 seconds to get larger and larger till become like dome, however we've seen Guy underwater for 4 seconds most likely before he opens gate 6.

also I told u that he can summon that giant turtle , turtles can dive ,swim and that turtle can throw guy outta the water dome.

Clearly you guys aren't getting the point of this list. It is the characters in their PRIME, at their strongest points in the series, with all their best weapons included. This would mean for instance, Itachi with Susano'o Sword and Mirror, or Naruto in RS mode rather then Sage Mode or Kyuubi mode, Sasuke with MS, etc etc. It's not "Put two characters together in a match that happened in the series and decide the victor." Because no, Kisame was not prime in their fight.

I understand bro, but u should write this in the OP of that thread However I told you before ,that thread wouldn't be like canon in Narutoverse so it doesn't matter who's legend and who's not.

If you want feats, go watch Kisame Vs. Killer Bee again. And if you wanna start the debate of Guy being better then Killer Bee after that, I'll be sure to prove you guys wrong again.

I've watched the battle thrice last week , that water dome was really deep but still Guy can get his ass outta it with that Turtles help.

2. Kisame and Guy never got into a speed fight, so I don't know what part of your ass you're pulling this one from. :p

this is not a speed fight , this is who's stronger 'cuz they both gonna face each other Kisame within a giant shark and Guy at gate 7 and the result would be just like what happened in that battle no matter how Kisame was weakened no matter how was exhausted as long as he was able to create thousand shark at such position it means he was still not going 2 reach his limits.

Guy is Anti-Kisame. water doesn't work on Guy and this is true whether u like it or not.

And once again... Kisame would have Samehada in their Tier List match-up.

ok Kisame has the Samehada in the tier list.

but bfr Kisame gets stomped by Guy , the Samehada was stuck in B's ass so that means Kisame lost Samehada in NarutoVerse we always give the Samehada to B without noticing since it belongs to B now and we never give Kisame the Samehada unless stipulated.

and this all due to the " Feat - chapter by chapter " thread,no one gonna admit that tier list unless edited.

well even then ,I haven't seen someone saying Kisame beats Guy 'cuz Kisame is above Guy in the tier list.

Super Sanin 3

08-12-2011, 05:57 PM

Yes, I will agree that Guy in gates is indeed very strong. But I don't consider people in the legendary tier just because they're strong...the only thing intelligent i've seen about Guy was his counter to the Sharingan and he had lots of time to form that plan

Jose

08-12-2011, 07:41 PM

Kisame at 30% had CHAKRA SIMILAR TO NARUTO OWN CHAKRA

Neji said he hasnt seen Chakra like that sense Naruto.

When was the last time he saw Naruto pouring out chakra? In the chunin exams.

He's wasnt talking about the current Naruto if hasnt even seen Naruto for 2 years he only meet Naruto in the village and he didnt use Byakugan to look at Naruto so there is no way Neji could know.

Pre-Naruto is all he knows.

So 30% Kisame Chakra similar to Pre-Naruto Chakra according to Neji. xD

Phoenix Wright

08-12-2011, 08:13 PM

For real. It's like people think Kishi is some mathematical genius who calculates his attacks and distances and speed before he even draws them. =/ "Oh well he moved at least 50 yards in one panel, that's considered supersonic, he's faster!"
It's just common sense really, they come up with crazy, idiotic calculations and whatever just to prove themselves right. I could go come up with some random(correct mathematics) calculation that's completely retarded to prove me right but I don't do that.
This is not calculus. This is Naruto.
No..
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LAS1p6U3UvU/0.jpg

THE X UCHIHA

08-13-2011, 04:51 AM

It's just common sense really, they come up with crazy, idiotic calculations and whatever just to prove themselves right. I could go come up with some random(correct mathematics) calculation that's completely retarded to prove me right but I don't do that.

No..
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LAS1p6U3UvU/0.jpg

I don't admit calcs, Kishimoto would lol at the ppl who use calcs in BGing 'cause he even didn't use it.

TheBlackChidori

08-14-2011, 05:06 AM

but bfr Kisame gets stomped by Guy , the Samehada was stuck in B's ass so that means Kisame lost Samehada in NarutoVerse we always give the Samehada to B without noticing since it belongs to B now and we never give Kisame the Samehada unless stipulated.

Sentences like this are why I can't take you or midnight seriously.

Itachi doesn't have his eyes anymore, Sasuke does, so Itachi isn't allowed his eyes in BG debates? No. He is.

I've watched the battle thrice last week , that water dome was really deep but still Guy can get his ass outta it with that Turtles help.

Guy is Anti-Kisame. water doesn't work on Guy and this is true whether u like it or not.

I take it back. Statements like THIS. ^

TheBlackChidori

08-14-2011, 05:19 AM

this debate has gone of topic... this debate was to show if Gai can be in the Legendary Tier!!..

and According to U BLACKCHIDORI... every character is in there prime in that list.. that means Gai is starting in the 7th Gate right???

If this is so, who in the heck is he not going to speed biltz???!!...lol.. u told me that the people like Jiraiya and Itachi all start in there most powerful form.. if Gai starts in the 7th Gate which is his most powerful form, then again he speed biltz and overpowers more at least five people in that Legendary list..

Sure, he can be in 7-gates. He's still going to lose. Especially if his opponent doesn't try to absorb his attack and instead maybe tries to counter it or block it.

So scenario plays out again, Kisame Vs. Guy. Guy uses morning peacock, Kisame lol's it away. But let's say for the sake of a good debate, Guy's Afternoon Tiger is effective and Kisame tries to absorb it again, or tries to block it with his hands or something. Cool. Kisame's down, a bit hurt but still conscious.

OHSNAP KISAME HAS A SWORD. He fuses with Samehada and heals the minimal amount of injuries he obtains from Guy. (V2 KB Lariat hurt him ALOT more considering, once again, HIS MIDSECTION WAS RIPPED APART. It was gone. his midsection was GONE). But he fused and was just peachy.

I now retrace to my previous post, stating how Kisame was not seriously injured and even still able to move and talk freely after tanking AT. And a punch by 7-Gates Guy. And mokuton restraints my Yamato. Which he broke out of. And close surveyance by 6 elite shinobi. Which he tricked and caught in water prisons. Anyway.

Back to present though.

So now Guy can only inevitably wait to either run out of chakra and go into that "every muscle ripped to shreds" state that opening the gates puts you in, or Kisame can pull more of his ridiculous chakra out and continue attacking Guy.

Kisame won that handicapped fight against Guy anyway. Thanks to him, Madara knows the location of the entire allied force. Good jerb Kisame.

[Shikamaru]

08-14-2011, 05:35 AM

Sure, he can be in 7-gates. He's still going to lose. Especially if his opponent doesn't try to absorb his attack and instead maybe tries to counter it or block it.

So scenario plays out again, Kisame Vs. Guy. Guy uses morning peacock, Kisame lol's it away. But let's say for the sake of a good debate, Guy's Afternoon Tiger is effective and Kisame tries to absorb it again, or tries to block it with his hands or something. Cool. Kisame's down, a bit hurt but still conscious.

OHSNAP KISAME HAS A SWORD. He fuses with Samehada and heals the minimal amount of injuries he obtains from Guy. (V2 KB Lariat hurt him ALOT more considering, once again, HIS MIDSECTION WAS RIPPED APART. It was gone. his midsection was GONE). But he fused and was just peachy.

I now retrace to my previous post, stating how Kisame was not seriously injured and even still able to move and talk freely after tanking AT. And a punch by 7-Gates Guy. And mokuton restraints my Yamato. Which he broke out of. And close surveyance by 6 elite shinobi. Which he tricked and caught in water prisons. Anyway.

Back to present though.

So now Guy can only inevitably wait to either run out of chakra and go into that "every muscle ripped to shreds" state that opening the gates puts you in, or Kisame can pull more of his ridiculous chakra out and continue attacking Guy.

Kisame won that handicapped fight against Guy anyway. Thanks to him, Madara knows the location of the entire allied force. Good jerb Kisame.
What you fail to understand and why I'm bringing it up being simply it was posted multiple times by various users.

Guy did not want to kill Kisame.

If he wanted to kill him, he would of pissed 100s of punches on Kisame.

He punched him once. You think he's so slow that he wouldn't be able to strike again?

Kisame tanked one shot. Get happy about it. What does he do with the 99 others Guy wants to not even break a sweat on? Nothing. Simply being he obviously could not dodge that one.

Also, draining chakra does not defeat the fact Guy can and will separate Kisame from his sword. Simply being he's the most impressive and arguably godly at Taijutsu.

The fact it's not his sword anymore basically makes him entirely useless, as the only source of power he had was that blade. Now since it's rogue, he cannot react to the faster S-class Ninja in the game, he can't drain chakra, and his Jutsu are low scale and crippled. He's got water shark missle, water dragon, water clones, water prison, and water shockwave now. He's a slower version of Zabuza.

TheBlackChidori

08-14-2011, 05:52 AM

;5429532']What you fail to understand and why I'm bringing it up being simply it was posted multiple times by various users.

Guy did not want to kill Kisame.

If he wanted to kill him, he would of pissed 100s of punches on Kisame.

He punched him once. You think he's so slow that he wouldn't be able to strike again?

Kisame tanked one shot. Get happy about it. What does he do with the 99 others Guy wants to not even break a sweat on? Nothing. Simply being he obviously could not dodge that one.

Also, draining chakra does not defeat the fact Guy can and will separate Kisame from his sword. Simply being he's the most impressive and arguably godly at Taijutsu.

The fact it's not his sword anymore basically makes him entirely useless, as the only source of power he had was that blade. Now since it's rogue, he cannot react to the faster S-class Ninja in the game, he can't drain chakra, and his Jutsu are low scale and crippled. He's got water shark missle, water dragon, and water clones now. He's a slower version of Zabuza.

You could say Guy didn't want to kill Kisame. I could say that he couldn't. The fact that he immediately shot into gates form usually means that he has intent to kill. And after realizing that six-gates was much too weak to take out Kisame's shark army, he upped it to a level he had never gone before, one he wouldn't even reach when his team was drowning. Sounds like intent to kill to me.

If Guy would have attacked anymore, he logically would have resorted to "Ow my shredded muscles" even sooner and screwed himself.

Maybe Guy's main priority was capturing Kisame, but Kisame's main priority was getting the scroll safely away. Which he did.

Face it, Kisame was smarter. He managed to evade capture and interrogation from four Jonin and two Jinchiruuki. Mission success.

Holding back... what merit does that EVER hold in a debate? Kisame was holding back against Killer Bee, but still managed to nearly kill him. A few times. Killer Bee on the other hand, wanted nothing more then to kill Kisame.

And last I checked, losing a sword didn't drop speed or reaction time. Low-scaled Jutsu... he overwhelmed Morning Peacock with sharks, but low-scale. Way to denounce the character you're trying to argue for.

[Shikamaru]

08-14-2011, 07:26 AM

You could say Guy didn't want to kill Kisame. I could say that he couldn't. The fact that he immediately shot into gates form usually means that he has intent to kill. And after realizing that six-gates was much too weak to take out Kisame's shark army, he upped it to a level he had never gone before, one he wouldn't even reach when his team was drowning. Sounds like intent to kill to me.

If Guy would have attacked anymore, he logically would have resorted to "Ow my shredded muscles" even sooner and screwed himself.

Maybe Guy's main priority was capturing Kisame, but Kisame's main priority was getting the scroll safely away. Which he did.

Face it, Kisame was smarter. He managed to evade capture and interrogation from four Jonin and two Jinchiruuki. Mission success.

Holding back... what merit does that EVER hold in a debate? Kisame was holding back against Killer Bee, but still managed to nearly kill him. A few times. Killer Bee on the other hand, wanted nothing more then to kill Kisame.

And last I checked, losing a sword didn't drop speed or reaction time. Low-scaled Jutsu... he overwhelmed Morning Peacock with sharks, but low-scale. Way to denounce the character you're trying to argue for.
Technically you couldn't say he could kill Guy either. Going by that logic, he never landed a finger on Guy on separate encounters.

That's true, due to Samehada which rightfully is not Kisames.

It is its own entity.

Kisame's only reaction features are moving into a guard position before Bee completely transformed into a chakra state, and forced himself toward Kisame.

Not very impressive. Guy would completely slap him around.

Kisame's speed outside Dome are lower tier as far as I'm concerned. Which again, makes him useless without Samehada.

What we really should be debating is 7th Gate vs. Samehada. Because Kisame is fodder in this.

THE X UCHIHA

08-14-2011, 07:41 AM

Sentences like this are why I can't take you or midnight seriously.

I don't care what u think about me but I'm trying to reach the same point u reached , I'm neuter here and not anyone's fan.

Itachi doesn't have his eyes anymore, Sasuke does, so Itachi isn't allowed his eyes in BG debates? No. He

no Itachi eyes were with him when he died so , Kisame didn't have the Samehada when he fought Guy 'cuz he lost it before the battle, Itachi is different he was EdoTenseied.

please I like my posts to be taken seriously the same way I take ppl posts so if u feel like my posts are totally pointless and don't make sense then just ignore 'em.

Midnight789

08-14-2011, 09:33 AM

And last I checked, losing a sword didn't drop speed or reaction time. Low-scaled Jutsu... he overwhelmed Morning Peacock with sharks, but low-scale. Way to denounce the character you're trying to argue for.

actually if u look back.. u can see that Gai was shooting his Morning Peacock above the water.. the result of the Morning Peacock Destroyed all the sharks up top where he was aiming

So i would not say he overwhelmed him at all... Gai open the 7th Gate to make sure all the sharks were wiped out. and to tell u the truth it seems to me that Gai's opponent was really the sharks.. because if Kisame were to have gotten hit from all those punches.. he would have died right then and there

with or without the sword, Kisame has no defense!!... the sword can not absorb the flames that Gai makes because it is real fire with no chakra enhancement

J-Sun Tasogare

08-14-2011, 10:58 AM

;5429663']Technically you couldn't say he could kill Guy either. Going by that logic, he never landed a finger on Guy on separate encounters.

That's true, due to Samehada which rightfully is not Kisames.

It is its own entity.

Kisame's only reaction features are moving into a guard position before Bee completely transformed into a chakra state, and forced himself toward Kisame.

Not very impressive. Guy would completely slap him around.

Kisame's speed outside Dome are lower tier as far as I'm concerned. Which again, makes him useless without Samehada.

What we really should be debating is 7th Gate vs. Samehada. Because Kisame is fodder in this.
Yep a 40% Kisame without his sword, chakra, strength, energy, and previously injured couldn't kill Gai, and Gai couldn't kill him. Now a 100% full Health Kisame, is another story.

He still gets it in the debate.

That's completely obedient to it's Master until it finds and new one.

He dodged a Raikiri charged pencil and was able to make a handsign before A and Bee killed him, then again that was Zetsusame. He was easily able to block Bee's attacks with Samehada who is >A in base and A>Gai. At 30% strength he also was beating the pudding out of Gai.

Lolkay, lets see him take a hit from a full on Lariat to the chest and walk away.

So someone who already beat Gai and just decided not to kill him, is fodder?

And so what if Gai got Afternoon Tiger off? He could easily just heal from Samehada again, and Gai is fatigued, Lariat>Morning Tiger.

TheBlackChidori

08-14-2011, 02:10 PM

Kisame's fodder, Shika? Kay. LETS DO A FEAT BY FEAT LIST!

Strength Feat
With just the tip of his blade, Kisame is able to bear down too much pressure for Asuma to handle. Kisame is using one hand, Asuma using two and his blades. 141-10

Guy uses his Nunchaku to combat Kisame. Kisame bears down on Guy with his sword who can't handle it. "He has superhuman strength!" Again, 30% Kisame simultaneously holding 3 water clones holding 3 prisons on 2 chunin and 1 jonin. 258-9

Kisame slams Guy to the bottom of the lake, who coughs up blood from being overpowered so badly. ; ; 258-10

Drops Ponta like a bad habit. 470-10

Kisame uses Suiton: Water Wave Bomb, completely blowing back V2 KB and Sabu and trapping them in water, directly after healing from a fatal injury. 471-15

Kisame notes that he is HOLDING BACK against a FULLY TRANSFORMED KILLER BEE to capture him. 472-5

Hachibi notes that Killer Bee HAS NO HOPE OF BEATING Kisame in the water. 472-8

Kisame is standing over Bee. Despite the 3 on 1, Kisame has this battle won without a doubt, barring Samehada's mutiny. So here we see that Kisame managed to solo the perfect Jinchuuriki host. 472-13

Samehada Feat
Sharkskin makes contact with Asuma's arm, Kisame let's it go into shred mode and cuts fairly deep into Asuma, enough that Asuma jumps back and grasps his injury. 141-11

Guy takes Samehada and tries to use it against Kisame, ends up getting his hands cut up real nice. 257-18

Kisame is able to summon Samehada back through the water. 258-3

Samehada manages to completely eat KB's 4-tailed cloak in less then a second, through KB's Knife. 470-16

Manages to instantly eat 6-tails off of KB's v2 cloak. 471-4

Kisame heals all of his injuries in seconds just by grasping Samehada's handle. 471-14

Kisame states that when fused with Samehada, he doesn't even need to see. He can feel the opponents chakra. At this point, Kisame has managed to drain and cause Bee to exhaust nearly all of his immense Jinchuuriki chakra. 472-11

Even AFTER Samehada turns on Kisame and gives KB some of Kisame's chakra, Kisame still goes in for a killing blow, and would have succeeded if not for the Raikage and his guard's intervention. That's twice in this fight Kisame had KB dead, and KB was saved by a miracle. 473-4

Speed Feat
Kisame uses suikoudan and its going to strike Asuma, luckily Kakashi is there to sharingan-replicate the jutsu and block it. 141-17

Kisame swipes Sharingan and absorbs all of Naruto's Kyuubi chakra in one swing, before Naruto can even finish his Kage No Bunshin handsign. 146-17

Jiraiya uses Toad mouth trap and begins to close in on Itachi and Kisame. Kisame keeps up with Itachi and escapes thanks to Amaterasu. The fact that he can keep up with Itachi who was using top speed to escape tells me something, especially since Itachi had a 2 panel headstart when Kisame had to loosen his sword. 148-6

30% Kisame blitzes Guy and nearly hits him with Sharkskin, Guy only has time to put up his guard before Lee comes in and interrupts Kisame's attack. 256-5

30% Kisame dodges an explosive bomb attack from Tenten after being assaulted by Lee and Neji simultaneously. 256-9

All 4 of Team 10 attack 30% Kisame, Guy manages to take Kisame's sword, and Neji, Tenten and Rock Lee attack Kisame as Guy pulls away. Kisame makes 3 water clones before they get to him. 257-15

Kisame manages to use those clones to grab the three members, and puts them all in water prisons, STILL before they manage to even attack them. Meaning he made clones, and another jutsu before they could even get near enough to hit him. Impressive for a 30% clone. 257-17

In the middle of his attack against Sabu, KB shoots a Raiton Pencil at Kisame, who dodges it mid-course. The pencil has enough penetrative power to shoot through several trees. 470-11

While blocking an axe-swipe from Sabu, Kisame manages to turn around and also block Killer Bee's Super Vibrato Raiton Knife. 470-14

Kisame dodges a head-on attack from 7-tailed KB and manages to counter. 471-4

The Hachibi tells a fully-transformed Bee that there is no way he can outrun Kisame in the water dome, as the dome even moves with Kisame.

Kisame tricks and catches Bee in the water and sucks his chakra away in fusion mode. 472-6

After Samehada's mutiny, Kisame grabs one of KB's swords and prepares to stab him. KB surprised him by throwing another Raiton pencil at Kisame, which he once again, dodges. 473-2

Kisame manages to use the Zetsu substitution right before KB and Raikage use double lariat. 473-6

Defense Feat
Guy surprises Itachi and Kisame during their fight with Kakashi and company, hits Kisame with Leaf hurricane with no notice, Kisame isn't even knocked over. 143-10.

Kisame gets hit by Leaf Hurricane from Lee, doesn't get knocked over. 256-6

Kisame gets attacked by Neji's air palm directly after Lee's attack, still manages to put his defense up. 256-7

Not really a defense feat, but Chojuro notes that Kisame has the chakra of a Jinchuuriki. Coupled with sharkskin, it makes him a Bijuu without a tail. Note that he has the immense chakra on his own, doesn't need Sharkskin to be an animal. It's the whole reason Samehada is even attracted to Kisame. 468-10

Kisame tanks a fully Bijuu-transformed KB's Lariat. 471-12

Kisame is missing most of his midsection, still alive, smiling, and talking. 471-13

Kisame heals all of his injuries in seconds just by grasping Samehada's handle. 471-14(repeated to accent how amazing this is)

All of these feats are taken before the final Guy Vs. Kisame match. I covered that play by play in a recent post anyway. But as you can see, Kisame w/ Samehada is a straight powerhouse. He had Killer Bee beat, this was KB at absolute full power mind you, but he had him beat twice. Killer Bee had a horseshoe up his butt that day with the two miracles that kept him alive.

So unless you're saying that Guy is stronger, faster, smarter, and has more chakra then Killer Bee, you'll realize how completely wrong you've been for this entire topic.

Yet I doubt you will be, because even with several BG vets explaining why your comments are so ridiculous, you wank on.

So Shika, Midnight, X, this is my last post in this topic. I feel I've handed all of you your asses, and If I put it to a vote, the majority of people would agree with me. So yeah, have fun countering with your baseless crap.

THE X UCHIHA

08-14-2011, 06:56 PM

So Shika, Midnight, X, this is my last post in this topic. I feel I've handed all of you your asses, and If I put it to a vote, the majority of people would agree with me. So yeah, have fun countering with your baseless crap.

1. u insulted me while I didn't and I don't care how the others take that.
2. put it into a vote and u'll lose.
3. this thing and all in all is just a freakin' hobby that doesn't change anything and let me tell u this :

you're not GOD so u want ppl believe that all wut u say is true,logical ,correct and should be followed

Kisame worths nothin' without Samehada and Samehada changed its Master before he fights Guy so quit being smarty and I told u Samehada would be kicked off if tried to absorb Guy's chakra.

4. nxt time try to show more respect just because u have admin powers doesn't mean u can say whatever u want. I'm not kid so u say " Your asses " or " baseless crap " that's really pissed me off.

Bacon

08-14-2011, 07:03 PM

deidara330

08-14-2011, 07:32 PM

Midnight789

08-15-2011, 06:11 AM

I think perhaps the reason I'm not active here anymore is that it gets way too serious.

I'm sure you've probably got many well-reasoned points, but it's not really my issue, so all I want to say is on your first point. Guy is at a disadvantage looking at feet, but it is possible to simply watch the lower part of a person's body while keeping the enemy's Dojutsu inside peripheral vision. As long as direct contact isn't made, Guy should still be able to fight well enough. Not to say he actually would beat anyone you listed, but I think he'd at least put up a better fight than I get the impression that you seem to think he would. Also, Nagato hasn't really shown Genjutsu proficiency and Danzo's only Genjutsu, Koto Amatsukami, is something that'd be given to work on opponents that have at least basic Genjutsu fighting skills since it's a Genjutsu that affects someone without their knowledge.

Also not gonna try and argue Guy should be legend tier, but kudos saying numbers don't matter in a manga fight. I used to be all about speed calcs, but the more I got into them, the more I realized the Supersonic/Hypersonic stuff was just crap and it's better to just look at it as Character A is really fast and Character B appears relatively faster given the feats.

i dont understand why people think that is all to his technique.. Gai told Asuma, Kakashi, and Kureni the basic.. but i understand if u just take what u saw into consideration, thats reasonable but u have to remember what the Conversation what here it is:

Gai: Both of u open ur eyes

Gai:Using the reflection is the only way that you are recognized and dealt with

Asuma: Thats pretty smart.. but there is only one person that can do that--- You!

Gai: You could say that.. you must fight while focusing just on his feet

here is the important part

Gai: there is a method to do this... But... we dont have time for that

im not saying Gai has a counter to Ammy.. all am saying is that there is just more to just looking at the feet.. he said it himself that there is a method in doing this..

but this is not the point the point is is that Gai deserves to be at the Legendary List.. im not saying this because he is my Fav.. im judging this by his feats that most people in the Manga can not compare to.. feats he has shown to completely destroy his opponents

Midnight789

08-15-2011, 06:21 AM

i respect everyones opinion but. i really dont see why Kisame Kakuzu or even Gaara is in front of Might Guy when he is in the 7th Gate.. Speed is an important aspect if u look at the match up against the people i just name when facing Gai. if they can not react to Gais punches, the match is over..

but anyway thats just my opinion.. some my say Kisame did not have his sword, or Kakuzu has his Iron Skin, or Gaara can Fly, so these are the things that would stop him..

but i say for Gaara.. how high are u taking about.. and does it really matter.. Gai summons his Turtle and Jumped ridiculously high with tremendous force and speed

for Kakuzu.. i dont know how he is going to survive the Morning Peacock.. even if he does ur telling me he would be perfectly fine..lol... even if he manage to survive the Morning Peacock, Gai would have enough energy to finish him off.. Kakuzu can not react to Gai at all..

for Kisame.. well im just tried of trying to convince people that Gai can beat him..

Shikamaru Nara

08-15-2011, 11:21 AM

Midnight you're a broken record and have only convinced me of the importance of Spelling Bees in school.

Frost, don't try to bring numbers into this. There is no possible way you can measure Guy's distance through paneling and comparison to a real life gunshot. 90% of the characters in the series have used attacks that make bullets seem slow, it gets you nowhere. Trying to use numbers to decide who would win in a fight in an anime, dumbest crap ever.

So is using hype, which you do.

How do you say that someone did something that hasn't been drawn in the manga?

J-Sun Tasogare

08-15-2011, 11:25 AM

So is using hype, which you do.

How do you say that someone did something that hasn't been drawn in the manga?
Hype was written into the manga.

Shikamaru Nara

08-15-2011, 11:28 AM

J-Sun Tasogare

08-15-2011, 11:39 AM

But never actually shown, which is the most important part. "Sage of the Six Paths created the moon." But it's called hype for a reason, because nobody saw it. It's just a legend. And nobody could have seen it.

Think about it this way. This didn't really happen in the story, I'm making it up, but it's just an example.

Iruka says that Naruto killed the Uzumaki clan or something.
But Iruka didn't see it.
Nobody did.
Just a legend.
May or may not be true.

So tell me, who SAW Sage of the Six Paths make the moon other than himself? Nobody?Unless I'm missing something.
Where did he ever say that?

Hype or stories also said that SotSP had a powerful and unique Dojutsu called the Rinnengan, it was said as not true, but look what happened, Pain.

It doesn't matter if anyone sees it, it's a story if Kishi writes it it's a part of the story until proved wrong. Now there is hype that is just hyperbole's such as Kakashi cutting lightning, or Ammy being hot as the sun. Also it's likely that SotSP could make CT as big as the moon, he already had ample enough chakra to carry his weapons without Juubi chakra, it's very likely he could've made it with all his chakra, if a near dead Nagato was able to make a mountain sized one. You have to use hype in debates, because if we just go by feats, Konohamaru beat SotSP.

NagatoGod_of_Pain

08-15-2011, 11:50 AM

Where did he ever say that?

Hype or stories also said that SotSP had a powerful and unique Dojutsu called the Rinnengan, it was said as not true, but look what happened, Pain.

It doesn't matter if anyone sees it, it's a story if Kishi writes it it's a part of the story until proved wrong. Now there is hype that is just hyperbole's such as Kakashi cutting lightning, or Ammy being hot as the sun. Also it's likely that SotSP could make CT as big as the moon, he already had ample enough chakra to carry his weapons without Juubi chakra, it's very likely he could've made it with all his chakra, if a near dead Nagato was able to make a mountain sized one. You have to use hype in debates, because if we just go by feats, Konohamaru beat SotSP.

467-15. The Sage sealed the Jubi using Chibaku Tensei.

Though I agree, it's certainly possible that this happened. Even if no one saw it, it was too long ago for anyone who lived back then to still be alive now. This was way back before even Hashirama's and Madara's natural lifespan. We know this because of the Sage's sons who are labeled as their respective clan's "ancestors".

The Sage was said to defeat the Jubi. If he was that powerful, then using Chibaku Tensei to a "moon" scale is likely.

TheBlackChidori

08-15-2011, 12:04 PM

1. u insulted me while I didn't and I don't care how the others take that.
2. put it into a vote and u'll lose.
3. this thing and all in all is just a freakin' hobby that doesn't change anything and let me tell u this :

you're not GOD so u want ppl believe that all wut u say is true,logical ,correct and should be followed

Kisame worths nothin' without Samehada and Samehada changed its Master before he fights Guy so quit being smarty and I told u Samehada would be kicked off if tried to absorb Guy's chakra.

4. nxt time try to show more respect just because u have admin powers doesn't mean u can say whatever u want. I'm not kid so u say " Your asses " or " baseless crap " that's really pissed me off.

Cry about it? Not like I called you an ass. Not like I said...

THE X UCHIHA IS AN ASS.

I never said that. Except now.

I save friendly discussions for town bookstore. This place has a reputation for being more brutal then other sections. If you can't handle getting told how wrong you are, in a firmly written and intelligent post, then get out.

And I'll take your and midnight's silence and lack of counters to my post as "We don't know how to counter it, TBC. You win."

TheBlackChidori

08-15-2011, 12:05 PM

So is using hype, which you do.

How do you say that someone did something that hasn't been drawn in the manga?

Strength Feat
With just the tip of his blade, Kisame is able to bear down too much pressure for Asuma to handle. Kisame is using one hand, Asuma using two and his blades. 141-10

Guy uses his Nunchaku to combat Kisame. Kisame bears down on Guy with his sword who can't handle it. "He has superhuman strength!" Again, 30% Kisame simultaneously holding 3 water clones holding 3 prisons on 2 chunin and 1 jonin. 258-9

Kisame slams Guy to the bottom of the lake, who coughs up blood from being overpowered so badly. ; ; 258-10

Drops Ponta like a bad habit. 470-10

Kisame uses Suiton: Water Wave Bomb, completely blowing back V2 KB and Sabu and trapping them in water, directly after healing from a fatal injury. 471-15

Kisame notes that he is HOLDING BACK against a FULLY TRANSFORMED KILLER BEE to capture him. 472-5

Hachibi notes that Killer Bee HAS NO HOPE OF BEATING Kisame in the water. 472-8

Kisame is standing over Bee. Despite the 3 on 1, Kisame has this battle won without a doubt, barring Samehada's mutiny. So here we see that Kisame managed to solo the perfect Jinchuuriki host. 472-13

Samehada Feat
Sharkskin makes contact with Asuma's arm, Kisame let's it go into shred mode and cuts fairly deep into Asuma, enough that Asuma jumps back and grasps his injury. 141-11

Guy takes Samehada and tries to use it against Kisame, ends up getting his hands cut up real nice. 257-18

Kisame is able to summon Samehada back through the water. 258-3

Samehada manages to completely eat KB's 4-tailed cloak in less then a second, through KB's Knife. 470-16

Manages to instantly eat 6-tails off of KB's v2 cloak. 471-4

Kisame heals all of his injuries in seconds just by grasping Samehada's handle. 471-14

Kisame states that when fused with Samehada, he doesn't even need to see. He can feel the opponents chakra. At this point, Kisame has managed to drain and cause Bee to exhaust nearly all of his immense Jinchuuriki chakra. 472-11

Even AFTER Samehada turns on Kisame and gives KB some of Kisame's chakra, Kisame still goes in for a killing blow, and would have succeeded if not for the Raikage and his guard's intervention. That's twice in this fight Kisame had KB dead, and KB was saved by a miracle. 473-4

Speed Feat
Kisame uses suikoudan and its going to strike Asuma, luckily Kakashi is there to sharingan-replicate the jutsu and block it. 141-17

Kisame swipes Sharingan and absorbs all of Naruto's Kyuubi chakra in one swing, before Naruto can even finish his Kage No Bunshin handsign. 146-17

Jiraiya uses Toad mouth trap and begins to close in on Itachi and Kisame. Kisame keeps up with Itachi and escapes thanks to Amaterasu. The fact that he can keep up with Itachi who was using top speed to escape tells me something, especially since Itachi had a 2 panel headstart when Kisame had to loosen his sword. 148-6

30% Kisame blitzes Guy and nearly hits him with Sharkskin, Guy only has time to put up his guard before Lee comes in and interrupts Kisame's attack. 256-5

30% Kisame dodges an explosive bomb attack from Tenten after being assaulted by Lee and Neji simultaneously. 256-9

All 4 of Team 10 attack 30% Kisame, Guy manages to take Kisame's sword, and Neji, Tenten and Rock Lee attack Kisame as Guy pulls away. Kisame makes 3 water clones before they get to him. 257-15

Kisame manages to use those clones to grab the three members, and puts them all in water prisons, STILL before they manage to even attack them. Meaning he made clones, and another jutsu before they could even get near enough to hit him. Impressive for a 30% clone. 257-17

In the middle of his attack against Sabu, KB shoots a Raiton Pencil at Kisame, who dodges it mid-course. The pencil has enough penetrative power to shoot through several trees. 470-11

While blocking an axe-swipe from Sabu, Kisame manages to turn around and also block Killer Bee's Super Vibrato Raiton Knife. 470-14

Kisame dodges a head-on attack from 7-tailed KB and manages to counter. 471-4

The Hachibi tells a fully-transformed Bee that there is no way he can outrun Kisame in the water dome, as the dome even moves with Kisame.

Kisame tricks and catches Bee in the water and sucks his chakra away in fusion mode. 472-6

After Samehada's mutiny, Kisame grabs one of KB's swords and prepares to stab him. KB surprised him by throwing another Raiton pencil at Kisame, which he once again, dodges. 473-2

Kisame manages to use the Zetsu substitution right before KB and Raikage use double lariat. 473-6

Defense Feat
Guy surprises Itachi and Kisame during their fight with Kakashi and company, hits Kisame with Leaf hurricane with no notice, Kisame isn't even knocked over. 143-10.

Kisame gets hit by Leaf Hurricane from Lee, doesn't get knocked over. 256-6

Kisame gets attacked by Neji's air palm directly after Lee's attack, still manages to put his defense up. 256-7

Not really a defense feat, but Chojuro notes that Kisame has the chakra of a Jinchuuriki. Coupled with sharkskin, it makes him a Bijuu without a tail. Note that he has the immense chakra on his own, doesn't need Sharkskin to be an animal. It's the whole reason Samehada is even attracted to Kisame. 468-10

Kisame tanks a fully Bijuu-transformed KB's Lariat. 471-12

Kisame is missing most of his midsection, still alive, smiling, and talking. 471-13

Kisame heals all of his injuries in seconds just by grasping Samehada's handle. 471-14(repeated to accent how amazing this is)

Every one of those points was directly from the manga, chapter and page included. Hype? Yeah, you're an idiot.

Shikamaru Nara

08-15-2011, 12:10 PM

Hey, guess what, I wasn't directing that at what you said about Kisame, I was speaking in general.

I'm not an idiot, chill your nuts. It's the internet.

TheBlackChidori

08-15-2011, 12:12 PM

Hey, guess what, I wasn't directing that at what you said about Kisame, I was speaking in general.

I'm not an idiot, chill your nuts. It's the internet.

Then what merit would that comment have in a debate about this?

I don't go and track down one of your debates, and talk about how you include something completely unrelated from the topic at hand.

Don't come at me if you can't handle it.

Shikamaru Nara

08-15-2011, 12:15 PM

Midnight you're a broken record
copying Dudemeister's posts

BS.

By saying he's a broken record, you're implying he says the same things, IN OTHER DEBATES as well as this one.

By saying I copy posts, you're obviously referring to other debates.

I can, don't worry.

J-Sun Tasogare

08-15-2011, 12:20 PM

/facepalm

Is there really any reason to call him an idiot, even if he was being an idiot? Aren't we supposed to discourage against that?

Vornmusion

08-15-2011, 12:21 PM

http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy284/Vornmusion/o_O/1292494698123.jpg

TBC always makes the most interesting threads in here. :lol:

TheBlackChidori

08-15-2011, 12:22 PM

BS.

By saying he's a broken record, you're implying he says the same things, IN OTHER DEBATES as well as this one.

By saying I copy posts, you're obviously referring to other debates.

I can, don't worry.

No. His debates are always about why Guy can defeat character X. And then I'm made out to be the bad guy because I won't make him Legend Tier, despite putting him at the top of Kage tier, staying true to the "Surpasses the power of the Kages" that 7-gates brings.

This has nothing to do with this topic. At this point you're spamming useless nonsense. You have ANYTHING to say to me, bring it to a PM. Because you're seriously on a thin ass leash with me.

If you really wanna try and box the gift horse in the mouth shika, I can make sure to take away everything I've done for your ass. If not, gtfo of this topic unless you have something to say about Guy.

/facepalm

Is there really any reason to call him an idiot, even if he was being an idiot? Aren't we supposed to discourage against that?

He's on the BG Council so not really. We're sort of inclined to call eachother idiots if we're being idiots. Hence why I picked all of you for it, you're usually able to handle it without crying.

Can always ask dudemeister to come back, he came up with much worse then idiot.

J-Sun Tasogare

08-15-2011, 12:24 PM

No. His debates are always about why Guy can defeat character X. And then I'm made out to be the bad guy because I won't make him Legend Tier, despite putting him at the top of Kage tier, staying true to the "Surpasses the power of the Kages" that 7-gates brings.

This has nothing to do with this topic. At this point you're spamming useless nonsense. You have ANYTHING to say to me, bring it to a PM. Because you're seriously on a thin ass leash with me.

If you really wanna try and box the gift horse in the mouth shika, I can make sure to take away everything I've done for your ass. If not, gtfo of this topic unless you have something to say about Guy.

He's on the BG Council so not really. We're sort of inclined to call eachother idiots if we're being idiots. Hence why I picked all of you for it, you're usually able to handle it without crying.

Can always ask dudemeister to come back, he came up with much worse then idiot.
Just cause he can handle it doesn't mean you should abuse his ability to handle it, and if you wanna argue and call each bitchassmofos then at least move the thread so no one can see the ;);););) storm ensue.

TheBlackChidori

08-15-2011, 12:26 PM

Just cause he can handle it doesn't mean you should abuse his ability to handle it, and if you wanna argue and call each bitchassmofos then at least move the thread so no one can see the ;);););) storm ensue.

This has nothing to do with this topic. At this point you're spamming useless nonsense. You have ANYTHING to say to me, bring it to a PM.

Already told him to PM me.

You're right, this doesn't need to be here.

deidara330

08-15-2011, 12:44 PM

i dont understand why people think that is all to his technique.. Gai told Asuma, Kakashi, and Kureni the basic.. but i understand if u just take what u saw into consideration, thats reasonable but u have to remember what the Conversation what here it is:

Gai: Both of u open ur eyes

Gai:Using the reflection is the only way that you are recognized and dealt with

Asuma: Thats pretty smart.. but there is only one person that can do that--- You!

Gai: You could say that.. you must fight while focusing just on his feet

here is the important part

Gai: there is a method to do this... But... we dont have time for that

im not saying Gai has a counter to Ammy.. all am saying is that there is just more to just looking at the feet.. he said it himself that there is a method in doing this..

but this is not the point the point is is that Gai deserves to be at the Legendary List.. im not saying this because he is my Fav.. im judging this by his feats that most people in the Manga can not compare to.. feats he has shown to completely destroy his opponentsKay, but why are you telling me? I already said it's not my issue.

Frost ninja

08-15-2011, 10:08 PM

Meh. I already got my hot n bothered about feats and all.
So Guy isn't legend teir, its no big deal. Since when do tiers matter?

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 07:12 AM

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 08:37 AM

Yeah really don't care at this point. But cant wait until he opens the last gate and proves everyone wrong even dough I think he already has proven himself when in the 6 th and 7th gate.

But I will accept his place in the list for now.. Lol.. Still don't know why Kakuzu is ahead but ok..lol
I've always thought characters should be based overall, but for these 1vs1 battles, it'd be abit different. Guy doesn't go in the Gates automatically because it's his trump card, he feels burnt out after it.

What if he attacked a clone instead? It would be a big waste for nothing.

Frost ninja

08-16-2011, 10:14 AM

I've always thought characters should be based overall, but for these 1vs1 battles, it'd be abit different. Guy doesn't go in the Gates automatically because it's his trump card, he feels burnt out after it.

What if he attacked a clone instead? It would be a big waste for nothing.

Gates isn't a one-shot deal. He can stay in it for a pretty long while

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 01:31 PM

Gates isn't a one-shot deal. He can stay in it for a pretty long while

exactly.. its not like he punches the enemy and there he is done..not only can he stay in gates for a long time but can prolong the effect as sown when he attempted to capture kisame again when he broke out

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 01:36 PM

exactly.. its not like he punches the enemy and there he is done..not only can he stay in gates for a long time but can prolong the effect as sown when he attempted to capture kisame again when he broke out

Again you all fail to look at feats.

Samehada drained 6 tails from v2 KB. Do you realize how much chakra that is?

If Guy even TOUCHES Samehada his Gates gets reduced to nothing in a split second. Leaving Samehada with a ridiculous amount of Chakra to heal Kisame.

Considering Kisame's reaction speed to a Raiton charged pencil from KB in a very close range distance and numerous other occurences.. Guy would not be able to just speed blitz and wtfpwn.

Guy belongs in Kage tier at best until we see more from him than that fight with a subpar 30% Kisame clone which again is an extremely poor way to argue Guy's feats considering that clone was far weaker than Kisame.

The Immortal Watch Dog

08-16-2011, 01:52 PM

Gai is going by feats the fastest or second fastest character in his universe..he built a fighting style made specifically to counter Uchihas and even Itachi thought the guy was a serious enough problem to pretty much command no one screw around with him.

He took kisame apart when a jinchuriki prior struggled with him and did so based off pure speed.

now i know there are canon statements about Minato and the Raikages speed but word of god is the single most useless piece of evidence one can cite..Kishimoto can eat a dick...in a feat based debate system all that matters is what has been done on panel. Going by that alone Gai is pretty high up on the food chain.

mind you when I think of Legendary tier I think of Hashirama Sarutobi and pein and Naruto when he's really cracking loose mind you..Gai absolutely lacks their versatility but the man is..among the most potent in his setting and should be acknowledge as such

LOL did black Chidori just threaten another staff member because the guy called him on his hang up with dudmeister and his own issues with Gai? really?

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 01:54 PM

Gai is going by feats the fastest or second fastest character in his universe..he built a fighting style made specifically to counter Uchihas and even Itachi thought the guy was a serious enough problem to pretty much command no one screw around with him.

He took kisame apart when a jinchuriki prior struggled with him and did so based off pure speed.

now i know there are canon statements about Minato and the Raikages speed but word of god is the single most useless piece of evidence one can cite..Kishimoto can eat a dick...in a feat based debate system all that matters is what has been done on panel. Going by that alone Gai is pretty high up on the food chain.

mind you when I think of Legendary tier I think of Hashirama Sarutobi and pein and Naruto when he's really cracking loose mind you..Gai absolutely lacks their versatility but the man is..among the most potent in his setting and should be acknowledge as such

He took apart Kisame? When was this exactly?

If you're referring to the Kisame clone, that is absolutely the worse argument to present for Guy.

The Immortal Watch Dog

08-16-2011, 01:59 PM

He took apart Kisame? When was this exactly?

If you're referring to the Kisame clone, that is absolutely the worse argument to present for Guy.

I'm talking about the event that lead up too him being locked up like a debter and having to kill himself because he got pwned

thats what I'm talking about

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 02:03 PM

Well if you're talking about tiers you shouldn't take somebody out just because he can't beat somebody from the tier (or lower with an advtanage over him)

The Immortal Watch Dog

08-16-2011, 02:12 PM

Well if you're talking about tiers you shouldn't take somebody out just because he can't beat somebody from the tier (or lower with an advtanage over him)

this too

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 02:16 PM

Also don't forget Gai did break out of Kabuto's genjutsu at the Chunin exams (hope nobody said that:evil:) so he's not completely defenceless against it. But i don't agree that he'll be able to spam gate-related techniques for very long, i mean the 8th gate is death..6-7th should have some faults

Vivi

08-16-2011, 02:25 PM

Also don't forget Gai did break out of Kabuto's genjutsu at the Chunin exams (hope nobody said that:evil:) so he's not completely defenceless against it.

Thing with Kabuto's Genjutsu is that it needs ages to activate and can be released with a simple Release even by Fodder.

It's far from a Top Genjutsu.

Frost ninja

08-16-2011, 02:30 PM

Although true, it does show he had at least something.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:31 PM

Again you all fail to look at feats.

Samehada drained 6 tails from v2 KB. Do you realize how much chakra that is?

If Guy even TOUCHES Samehada his Gates gets reduced to nothing in a split second. Leaving Samehada with a ridiculous amount of Chakra to heal Kisame.

Considering Kisame's reaction speed to a Raiton charged pencil from KB in a very close range distance and numerous other occurences.. Guy would not be able to just speed blitz and wtfpwn.

Guy belongs in Kage tier at best until we see more from him than that fight with a subpar 30% Kisame clone which again is an extremely poor way to argue Guy's feats considering that clone was far weaker than Kisame.

What are u talking about?? Gai does not use Chakra buddy!!! The Gates Releases Chakra not Gains it!!..lol

Vivi

08-16-2011, 02:36 PM

What are u talking about?? Gai does not use Chakra buddy!!! The Gates Releases Chakra not Gains it!!..lol

And the Body needs Chakra to survive.=/

Also Gates USES Chakra as that is what gives the user Power stated by Guy himself in 85.

i want to agree with u but then Black Chshit will call it wanking..lol

Reported.

Frost ninja

08-16-2011, 02:36 PM

Yeah... But to drain him you'd have to actually be able to land a hit :/ That's the thing, how do you beat guy, barring genjutsu, being he is movin at speeds that make him harder to hit...?

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 02:43 PM

What are u talking about?? Gai does not use Chakra buddy!!! The Gates Releases Chakra not Gains it!!..lol

Sorry but yet again, you are the worst wanker I have ever seen.

What does the Gates technique do?

Releases the CHAKRA Limiters to unleash full chakra flow and potential use. Go reread that ability and stop wanking/flaming.

So again, nothing Guy has shown can overcome Samehada. Period.

Samehada instantly ripping 6 tails from v2 Killer Bee is a testament to that.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:43 PM

And the Body needs Chakra to survive.=/

Also Gates USES Chakra as that is what gives the user Power stated by Guy himself in 85.

Reported.

yes Gates does require Chakra.. but Chakra that has already been there... As stated from Neji Gai has a great amount of Chakra reserves.. but when Entering the Gates.. the user Releases this chakra.. how is the sword going to absorb Gai now because he is sure not fast enough to absorb him

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 02:46 PM

yes Gates does require Chakra.. but Chakra that has already been there... As stated from Neji Gai has a great amount of Chakra reserves.. but when Entering the Gates.. the user Releases this chakra.. how is the sword going to absorb Gai now because he is sure not fast enough to absorb him

You just contradicted yourself. You stated above Gates doesn't use Chakra. Well it does. It increases chakra output and flow.

It's not a matter of speed but reaction. Guy blitzes, Kisame blocks with Samehada and absorbs the chakra from Guy before full impact is made, rendering Guy with little to no chakra left and reducing him to fodder.

Vivi

08-16-2011, 02:46 PM

Yeah... But to drain him you'd have to actually be able to land a hit :/ That's the thing, how do you beat guy, barring genjutsu, being he is movin at speeds that make him harder to hit...?

That is the problem which I don't disagree with don't get me wrong.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:46 PM

Sorry but yet again, you are the worst wanker I have ever seen.

What does the Gates technique do?

Releases the CHAKRA Limiters to unleash full chakra flow and potential use. Go reread that ability and stop wanking/flaming.

So again, nothing Guy has shown can overcome Samehada. Period.

Samehada instantly ripping 6 tails from v2 Killer Bee is a testament to that.

i dont understand u.. im telling u it does require chakra but the Gates releases the Chakra.. there is no way that sword is going to hit or absorb Gai.. one is because Gai's attacks are not chakra.. it is pure Punches and Kicks!...

Im not just going to agree with u.. u can call me what ever u want.. does not really bother me..lol

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 02:48 PM

I'ma do the same thing i did to Gaara's thread..

Taijutsu and speed - An expert at taijutsu and his excellent speed make guy who he is, but i'm alittle hesitant on his base feats as he was saved a hit by rock lee when Kisame made his tsunami and when he got knocked into the water later during their fight

Determination - Guy's not the type of person who will back down easily, he's known for his stamina, won't be easy to make him give up(not that it matters in fights to the death)

Inner Gates - Guy's main weapon and trump card, the strength and speed he gains from the gates is very powerful indeed. He in turn gains new techniques such as Morning Peacock and Daytime Tiger, both one-shotters if used correctly

I didn't work much on it so there's bound to be mistakes `~(

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:48 PM

You just contradicted yourself. You stated above Gates doesn't use Chakra. Well it does. It increases chakra output and flow.

It's not a matter of speed but reaction. Guy blitzes, Kisame blocks with Samehada and absorbs the chakra from Guy before full impact is made, rendering Guy with little to no chakra left and reducing him to fodder.

I did not see Kisame trying to absorb Gai when Gai used the Morning Peacock to roast his butt.. Gai kicked that sword like it was nothing..

plus did u not SEE GAI TAKE THE SWORD AWAY FROM KISAME WITH EASE IN THERE SECOND FIGHT

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 02:49 PM

What are u talking about?? Gai does not use Chakra buddy!!! The Gates Releases Chakra not Gains it!!..lol

i dont understand u.. im telling u it does require chakra but the Gates releases the Chakra.. there is no way that sword is going to hit or absorb Gai.. one is because Gai's attacks are not chakra.. it is pure Punches and Kicks!...

Im not just going to agree with u.. u can call me what ever u want.. does not really bother me..lol

What does that above quote say? Hmmm.

Secondly, those punches and kicks are chakra enhanced much like Tsunade's or Sakura's. So yes they have chakra in them.

Samehada makes contact with Guy and it's GG. Kisame can block you know, and to say Guy can speed blitz him and just wtfpwn is ridiculous considering Kisame's reaction speed is VERY high as seen in his fight with KB.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 02:50 PM

plus did u not SEE GAI TAKE THE SWORD AWAY FROM KISAME WITH EASE IN THERE SECOND FIGHT
Was that really Samehada? can't remember if it was real or fake

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 02:51 PM

I did not see Kisame trying to absorb Gai when Gai used the Morning Peacock to roast his butt.. Gai kicked that sword like it was nothing..

plus did u not SEE GAI TAKE THE SWORD AWAY FROM KISAME WITH EASE IN THERE SECOND FIGHT

Again that was not the real Samehada. And that was a 30% fodder clone of Kisame.

Good way to argue Guy's feats eh? :roll:

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:51 PM

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 02:52 PM

about the part when he got hit in the water... he got overpowered by Kisame.. face it a huge sword vs numchuks .. lol u now the answer

He got overpowered by a Kisame CLONE. Not the real Kisame. And that was not the real Samehada either.

Please just stop posting.

Nick Tasogare

08-16-2011, 02:53 PM

What does that above quote say? Hmmm.

Secondly, those punches and kicks are chakra enhanced much like Tsunade's or Sakura's. So yes they have chakra in them.

Samehada makes contact with Guy and it's GG. Kisame can block you know, and to say Guy can speed blitz him and just wtfpwn is ridiculous considering Kisame's reaction speed is VERY high as seen in his fight with KB.

UGH GAI DUZ NAWT UZ CATCHRA HE UZES TEH POWER OF YOUTH LOL NOOB

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:54 PM

Again that was not the real Samehada. And that was a 30% fodder clone of Kisame.

Good way to argue Guy's feats eh? :roll:

what it still feat.. and what is the sword going to do against 7th gate Gai.. its his own sweat!!..lol

Vivi

08-16-2011, 02:55 PM

plus did u not SEE GAI TAKE THE SWORD AWAY FROM KISAME WITH EASE IN THERE SECOND FIGHT

Lee kicked it away when 30% Kisame was about to strike Guy who took the Sword from the Ground while Neji hit him with Empty Palm.=/

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 02:56 PM

what it still feat.. and what is the sword going to do against 7th gate Gai.. its his own sweat!!..lol

Yeah...his feats against a 30% Kisame clone with a fake Samehada where he nearly got killed until plot came in and he went gates :roll:

The sword drains chakra. Meaning Guy's chakra is absorbed. Meaning he is reduced from gates.

Shall I spell it out for you?

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 02:57 PM

Lee kicked it away when 30% Kisame was about to strike Guy who took the Sword from the Ground.
He means after that
Chapter 257 Page 14

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 02:58 PM

He got overpowered by a Kisame CLONE. Not the real Kisame. And that was not the real Samehada either.

Please just stop posting.

who are u to tell me to stop posting???...lol.. u really mean nothing right now...

Kisame's clone was still strong.. u make it seem like that was the weakest character in the show... Kisame's chakra was outrageous according to Neji.. so clone or no.. it was a powerful enemy

PLUS GAI DOES NOT UISE CHAKRA HE IS ALREADY IN A DISADVANTAGE.. THE ONLY MOVE THAT REQUIRES CHAKRA IS GATES. AND HE IS ACTUALLY RELEASING IT!

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:01 PM

PLUS GAI DOES NOT UISE CHAKRA HE IS ALREADY IN A DISADVANTAGE.. THE ONLY MOVE THAT REQUIRES CHAKRA IS GATES. AND HE IS ACTUALLY RELEASING IT!

Shouldn't that be an advantage towards kisame? I still say Samehada would drain him

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:01 PM

He means after that
Chapter 257 Page 14

Scuse me then.

Doesn't change anything though.
As soon as Guy tries to take away he'll get injured by the Spikes again and Samehada returns to Kisame.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:02 PM

yeah...his feats against a 30% kisame clone with a fake samehada where he nearly got killed until plot came in and he went gates :roll:

The sword drains chakra. Meaning guy's chakra is absorbed. Meaning he is reduced from gates.

Shall i spell it out for you?

u make no sense.. Every story has a plot. Using that in a debate is childish...

So ur saying the sword is going to absorb guy's chakra before he enters gates.. well what part of not using chakra in base form do u not understand!

plus show me proof that the sword was a fake.. I want a page and chapter please

Nick Tasogare

08-16-2011, 03:03 PM

u make no sense.. Every story has a plot. Using that in a debate is childish...

So ur saying the sword is going to absorb guy's chakra before he enters gates.. well what part of not using chakra in base form do u not understand!

plus show me proof that the sword was a fake.. I want a page and chapter please

He doesn't need to be using it for Samehada to absorb it. It's still circulating throughout his body.

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:03 PM

PLUS GAI DOES NOT UISE CHAKRA HE IS ALREADY IN A DISADVANTAGE.. THE ONLY MOVE THAT REQUIRES CHAKRA IS GATES. AND HE IS ACTUALLY RELEASING IT!

And since Gates requires Chakra it gets leeched by Samehada.GIGIGIGIGIGI.

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:03 PM

who are u to tell me to stop posting???...lol.. u really mean nothing right now...

Kisame's clone was still strong.. u make it seem like that was the weakest character in the show... Kisame's chakra was outrageous according to Neji.. so clone or no.. it was a powerful enemy

PLUS GAI DOES NOT UISE CHAKRA HE IS ALREADY IN A DISADVANTAGE.. THE ONLY MOVE THAT REQUIRES CHAKRA IS GATES. AND HE IS ACTUALLY RELEASING IT!

Because you wank endlessly. With wrong facts. If I had the ability I'd give the CT, Wank Lee.

30% clone...does that percent mean anything to you in this argument? Exactly, a 30% clone was still powerful enough to nearly kill Guy and his team.

Guy uses Chakra. Especially in Gates. Obviously if he doesn't use Gates he will get raped.

Kyoudonenow? Because you keep posting the same crap which literally has nothing to counter what I've told you.

Space Cowboy Sasori

08-16-2011, 03:04 PM

Yeah fight the power!

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:05 PM

Shouldn't that be an advantage towards kisame? I still say Samehada would drain him

it is an advantage for Kisame.. why do u think the sword would drain him.. it has to hit him first and that is unlikely..

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:06 PM

So ur saying the sword is going to absorb guy's chakra before he enters gates.. well what part of not using chakra in base form do u not understand!

plus show me proof that the sword was a fake.. I want a page and chapter please

He could probably absorb it while he's in gates, but why can't he just do it when he's NOT in gates? He doesn't only drain your chakra when you use it

Plus he's seem with samehada with itachi (BTW can we not make this a flame thread? :( nobody will admit defeat in a flame thread)

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:06 PM

Yeah fight the power!

^

Anonymous?D8

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:06 PM

u make no sense.. Every story has a plot. Using that in a debate is childish...

So ur saying the sword is going to absorb guy's chakra before he enters gates.. well what part of not using chakra in base form do u not understand!

plus show me proof that the sword was a fake.. I want a page and chapter please

Exactly. So stop using plot please.

He still has chakra flowing through him. Thus can be drained.

Look it up yourself. Kisame with Itachi while their clones were killed has his real Samehada with him.

Thank you come again!

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:07 PM

it is an advantage for Kisame.. why do u think the sword would drain him.. it has to hit him first and that is unlikely..

Samehada didn't hit Bee and absorbed him just by getting close.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:09 PM

Because you wank endlessly. With wrong facts. If I had the ability I'd give the CT, Wank Lee.

30% clone...does that percent mean anything to you in this argument? Exactly, a 30% clone was still powerful enough to nearly kill Guy and his team.

Guy uses Chakra. Especially in Gates. Obviously if he doesn't use Gates he will get raped.

Kyoudonenow? Because you keep posting the same crap which literally has nothing to counter what I've told you.

it states in the databook that neither Gai nor lee use chakra enhancement jutsu!!..

30% means nothing to a person Gai does not use it.. plus his chakra at 30% was compared to Naruto when he was little.. no one had that amount of chakra in the leaf.. im sure Gai didnt

u keep saying the sword is going to absorb him.. well it has to hit him first.. Gai's close combat skills cancel this out!!

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:10 PM

Samehada didn't hit Bee and absorbed him just by getting close.

because he was cover in Tailed beast cot..lol.. what his he not going to absorb from Killer Bee...lol... most of his attacks require huge amount of chakra.. u get me?

Bacon

08-16-2011, 03:11 PM

Just a thought, maybe the story is inconsistent much? Gai barely defeated Kisame's clone, yet he was defeated later on in the series by the same man who barely fought him off last time. Perhaps you should look back on Kisame's last fight and see how Gai was not "GG'ed" instantly when he used his 6th gate. As for why, I realy don;t want to think too hard about it since kisame's samehada has a limited range for him to drain. At the same time, it doesn't mean he can actually react to Gai's attacks if he came within range when in gate form.

/flaming

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:12 PM

Exactly. So stop using plot please.

He still has chakra flowing through him. Thus can be drained.

Look it up yourself. Kisame with Itachi while their clones were killed has his real Samehada with him.

Thank you come again!

i know but it did not say anything about the sword being fake.. if it were fake they would have said that.... i think it was reduced in power like Kisame was

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:12 PM

it states in the databook that neither Gai nor lee use chakra enhancement jutsu!!..

30% means nothing to a person Gai does not use it.. plus his chakra at 30% was compared to Naruto when he was little.. no one had that amount of chakra in the leaf.. im sure Gai didnt

u keep saying the sword is going to absorb him.. well it has to hit him first.. Gai's close combat skills cancel this out!!

Chakra is the lifeforce flowing through EVERYONE. Guy has it. So does Lee.

Therefore they can be drained. Samehada doesn't have to make full contact to drain chakra.

30% Clone which nearly killed Guy, Neji, Ten Ten and Rock Lee. Meaning a 100% REAL Kisame with REAL Samehada would dominate Guy.

You keep saying useless things. So again I say Thank you come again!

Keep wanking buddy it will get you no where.

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:13 PM

it states in the databook that neither Gai nor lee use chakra enhancement jutsu!!..

u keep saying the sword is going to absorb him.. well it has to hit him first.. Gai's close combat skills cancel this out!!

The Databooks are one big pile of Garbage.
Haku being Lightspeed.
Ammy is as Hot as the Sun.
Susanoo is indestructible and Totsuka Sword pierces everything (Paradox much?)

Samehada didn't hit Bee and absorbed him just by getting close. y8Kyi0WNg40

because he was cover in Tailed beast cot..lol.. what his he not going to absorb from Killer Bee...lol... most of his attacks require huge amount of chakra.. u get me? He wasn't.470 Page 16.
He went into his Tailed Beast Form next Chapter.

y8Kyi0WNg40

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:13 PM

J-Sun Tasogare

08-16-2011, 03:13 PM

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:13 PM

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:13 PM

i know but it did not say anything about the sword being fake.. if it were fake they would have said that.... i think it was reduced in power like Kisame was

...No it was obvious it was a fake..considering it SHOWED in all panels the real Kisame had the real Samehada with him. The clone did not.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:18 PM

He wasn't.470 Page 16.
He went into his Tailed Beast Form next Chapter.

y8Kyi0WNg40

stop right there.. he absorbed the pencil (page 15 read).. got yeah.. look closely at the pencil that Killer bee threw..

beside the sword did not absorb anything in this page that u showed me... he just got excited

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:19 PM

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:20 PM

It got excited from eating KB's chakra. Problim?:p

yeah his pencil..LOL!!... look at page 15!!.. read buddy

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:21 PM

yeah his pencil..LOL!!... look at page 15!!.. read buddy

Still KB's Chakra.

Reread what you posted before kiddo :lol:

Still problim?

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:26 PM

Still KB's Chakra.

Reread what you posted before kiddo :lol:

Still problim?

Killer was covered in Tailed Beast Cot!!!... that is the only time the sword absorbed him!!... Gai is not how ever covered in Tailed Beast form.. u saw in that chapter than Killer Bee's attack was too fast for Kisame so the sword had to absorb the cot instead of the attack!!.. now how is that going for him when facing Gai.. who has the fastest punch in the show!

and please tell me how the sword will take his chakra.. u keep saying he would but dont explain how.. tell me

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:27 PM

stop right there.. he absorbed the pencil (page 15 read).. got yeah.. look closely at the pencil that Killer bee threw..

beside the sword did not absorb anything in this page that u showed me... he just got excited

Yes its Page 16.Not my Fault you read the Manga on
2nd Rate Sites.

Anyway it clearly shows:
Samehada had no contact with Bee nor the Chakra Cloak nor the Raiton Knife.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:27 PM

I don't see Kisame absorbing the pencil's chakra, just Kb's own (and atleast try not using taunting language please)

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:29 PM

Killer was covered in Tailed Beast Cot!!!... that is the only time the sword absorbed him!!... Gai is not how ever covered in Tailed Beast form.. u saw in that chapter than Killer Bee's attack was too fast for Kisame so the sword had to absorb the cot instead of the attack!!.. now how is that going for him when facing Gai.. who has the fastest punch in the show!

and please tell me how the sword will take his chakra.. u keep saying he would but dont explain how.. tell me

He absorbed the Raiton charged pencil when KB was not cloaked. So again you are wrong.

Then he absorbed 6 tails of V2 KB.

Simple..Samehada comes into close contact with Guy and it absorbs chakra from him. Either from blocking Guy's attacks or attacking him.

Tell me, how will Guy counter Water Dome?

J-Sun Tasogare

08-16-2011, 03:29 PM

Killer was covered in Tailed Beast Cot!!!... that is the only time the sword absorbed him!!... Gai is not how ever covered in Tailed Beast form.. u saw in that chapter than Killer Bee's attack was too fast for Kisame so the sword had to absorb the cot instead of the attack!!.. now how is that going for him when facing Gai.. who has the fastest punch in the show!

and please tell me how the sword will take his chakra.. u keep saying he would but dont explain how.. tell me
Actually a lariat would be comparable to Gai, I don't know why people think AT is so fast, same with Morning Peacock, he can take chakra before he uses attacks.

Fact is when Kisame tried to attack Gai with his attack, they met in the middle meaning they were an equal speed.

And it wasn't too fast, there was too much chakra. Gai doesn't have chakra comparable to Cloaked KB.

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:29 PM

I don't see Kisame absorbing the pencil's chakra, just Kb's own (and atleast try not using taunting language please)

The pencil...was charged with RAITON....aka KB's Chakra.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:31 PM

I don't see Kisame absorbing the pencil's chakra, just Kb's own (and atleast try not using taunting language please)

no read what killer bee's sensi said on page 15.. than see on page 16 that the sword was not absorbing killer bee but ripping from his cloth because he was excited..

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:31 PM

Tell me, how will Guy counter Water Dome?

Shouldn't the same happen as when Guy opened the 6th Gate underwater?hmm.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:33 PM

Yes its Page 16.Not my Fault you read the Manga on
2nd Rate Sites.

Anyway it clearly shows:
Samehada had no contact with Bee nor the Chakra Cloak nor the Raiton Knife.

if u say it had no contact.. u think it just absorbed something from mid air... look on page 15 the explains sensi than on 16.. the sword got excited by killer Bees chakra so it ripped from it cloth

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:34 PM

no read what killer bee's sensi said on page 15.. than see on page 16 that the sword was not absorbing killer bee but ripping from his cloth because he was excited..

Because it had already absorbed some of KB's chakra.

Shouldn't the same happen as when Guy opened the 6th Gate underwater?hmm.

Uh no? considering the 30% clone had a tiny ass body of water compared to the one Kisame has vs KB.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:36 PM

The pencil...was charged with RAITON....aka KB's Chakra
When did he absorb the pencil? I think what he absorbed was the raiton knife

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:37 PM

Uh no? considering the 30% clone had a tiny ass body of water compared to the one Kisame has vs KB.

And it's still Water and it will be pushed away around ,upwards and below Guy.
Not the entire Dome will be gone but the structure should at least be affected somehow.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:38 PM

Actually a lariat would be comparable to Gai, I don't know why people think AT is so fast, same with Morning Peacock, he can take chakra before he uses attacks.

Fact is when Kisame tried to attack Gai with his attack, they met in the middle meaning they were an equal speed.

And it wasn't too fast, there was too much chakra. Gai doesn't have chakra comparable to Cloaked KB.

ur so wrong.. when Gai uses the Morning Peacock.. he is not cover in Chakra at all... his punches are threw pure speed thats it.. because of the release of the chakra.. thats how gates work..

and also the AT was a simple punch but a punch so fast it creates a air bomb. AND IF IT WERE NOT FAST AS U SAY IT IS.. HOW COME KISAME DID NOT DODGE IT..

i dont know if ur last comment is reference to me

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:39 PM

When did he absorb the pencil? I think what he absorbed was the raiton knife

yes..sorry.. but if u read page 15 chapter 470.. u should understand

ok on page 14 it shows Killer Bee attack in 4 tailed form.. thats when i think Kisame absorbed his attack.. if not then it was with the knife or pencil thing

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:41 PM

if u say it had no contact.. u think it just absorbed something from mid air... look on page 15 the explains sensi than on 16.. the sword got excited by killer Bees chakra so it ripped from it cloth

Page 15:
"Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

"Headbutt"

"The Hachibi Cloak!!Ok!Now hes on a Roll!

=/

And Page 16 clearly shows that the Raiton Knife and Samehada didn't come into contact nothing changes that.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:41 PM

And it's still Water and it will be pushed away around ,upwards and below Guy.
Not the entire Dome will be gone but the structure should at least be affected somehow.
i'm probably wrong about this but didn't guy have land to jump from when he cleared the water? he'd probably be in mid-air if he did it with water dome
(BTW this is turning into Kisame vs Guy, when it's more if guy should be legend tier or not)

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:42 PM

ur so wrong.. when Gai uses the Morning Peacock.. he is not cover in Chakra at all... his punches are threw pure speed thats it.. because of the release of the chakra.. thats how gates work..

and also the AT was a simple punch but a punch so fast it creates a air bomb. AND IF IT WERE NOT FAST AS U SAY IT IS.. HOW COME KISAME DID NOT DODGE IT..

i dont know if ur last comment is reference to me

Gates releases chakra. Samehada absorbs chakra. Rendering Gates near useless. Your arguments are becoming pointless.

An air bomb? :lol:

30% Clone Kisame was no where near as fast,strong etc as real Kisame.

And it's still Water and it will be pushed away around ,upwards and below Guy.
Not the entire Dome will be gone but the structure should at least be affected somehow.

He had land to set foot on to help him jump.

If he was in Water Dome like Kisame vs KB he'd be in Mid Air.

As if Kisame will sit there and do nothing too while in Water Dome. Samehada fusion.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:45 PM

Gates releases chakra. Samehada absorbs chakra. Rendering Gates near useless. Your arguments are becoming pointless.

An air bomb? :lol:

30% Clone Kisame was no where near as fast,strong etc as real Kisame.

Gai releases his Chakra everwhere.. thats why he is able to repell the water back!!.. why dont u get this??

and the sword absorbing the release chakra does not EFFECT GAI.. HE IS STILL IN GATES!!... GATES REQUIRE CHAKRA TO BE RELEASED!

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:45 PM

and also the AT was a simple punch but a punch so fast it creates a air bomb. AND IF IT WERE NOT FAST AS U SAY IT IS.. HOW COME KISAME DID NOT DODGE IT..

Because:
Kisame was sure of Victory as he thought Afternoon Tiger consisted of Chakra and gets absorbed by Daikodan thus saw no reason to dodge.
Then he got overwhelmed on why Daikodan didn't absorb it as well as Afternoon Tiger already having been halfway towards him.

Not saying he can or can't dodge but why he didn't attempt it.

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:48 PM

Gai releases his Chakra everwhere.. thats why he is able to repell the water back!!.. why dont u get this??

and the sword absorbing the release chakra does not EFFECT GAI.. HE IS STILL IN GATES!!... GATES REQUIRE CHAKRA TO BE RELEASED!

Do you see what I mean by contradicting yourself? He releases chakra everywhere which repels the water yet if Samehada absorbs that chakra it doesn't do anything?

Lol Wank Lee you so funny.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:50 PM

2 things i have to say for both sides

1.Why didn't Kisame suck Asum'a chakra before if he got a clean cut on him?
2.If he CAN suck chakra it's IC for him to take Guy's chakra when it's not IC for Guy to go gates directly, and if it does take chakra to open the gates, he wont be able to open them afterwards

Vivi

08-16-2011, 03:51 PM

If he was in Water Dome like Kisame vs KB he'd be in Mid Air.

As if Kisame will sit there and do nothing too while in Water Dome. Samehada fusion.

Just my point.He'd be able to get out of Water Dome.

Samehada Fusion vs Gate Activation then.hmm.

i'm probably wrong about this but didn't guy have land to jump from when he cleared the water?

What's this with Jumping and land?
Guy needs no land to activate Gates when lee could do it Midair.
Nothing stops Guy from activating it in the Water unless Kisame can fuse with Samehada before he can enter Gates.

(BTW this is turning into Kisame vs Guy, when it's more if guy should be legend tier or not)

Good Point.I stop here then.

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:51 PM

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 03:53 PM

Guy isn't Legend tier just because he can beat someone from the legend tier, and likewise he can still be legend tier if someone below legend tier beat him *that's just imo anyways, i'd have to follow your rules*
Pretty sure the Wind Nature chakra on Asuma's blades was absorbed hence why he was able to overpower him so easily and cut him.
But he was able to use chakra on his knives AFTER he was cut

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 03:58 PM

Do you see what I mean by contradicting yourself? He releases chakra everywhere which repels the water yet if Samehada absorbs that chakra it doesn't do anything?

Lol Wank Lee you so funny.

WHAT??.. the sword has never been seen to absorb chakra from water or seen to distinguish the difference.. still wont matter to Gai he needs to release the chakra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cant i say ur wanking kisame and his sword... i really ddont get this wanking thing.. its stupid.. if ur trying to get me mad.. its not working..lol

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 03:58 PM

WHAT??.. the sword has never been seen to absorb chakra from water or seen to distinguish the difference.. still wont matter to Gai he needs to release the chakra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cant i say ur wanking kisame and his sword... i really ddont get this wanking thing.. its stupid.. if ur trying to get me mad.. its not working..lol

I'm going to punch you in the face.

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 04:01 PM

Pretty sure the Wind Nature chakra on Asuma's blades was absorbed hence why he was able to overpower him so easily and cut him.

and ur saying im wanking.. Asuma would of known his chakra to be drained like anyone else!!...

he said Kisame had superhuman strength or at least implied that just like Gai!!! thats how he overpowered him... not by chakra absorption

Midnight789

08-16-2011, 04:05 PM

I'm going to punch you in the face.

LOLOL!!!.. ur life and threats mean nothing to me.. seriously i take u as a joke.. calling people wanking whatever just for defending a character is not right.. if it were a different match up i would pick a view.. now are u going to say im wanking that character if i dont agree with u??.

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 04:39 PM

and ur saying im wanking.. Asuma would of known his chakra to be drained like anyone else!!...

he said Kisame had superhuman strength or at least implied that just like Gai!!! thats how he overpowered him... not by chakra absorption

LOLOL!!!.. ur life and threats mean nothing to me.. seriously i take u as a joke.. calling people wanking whatever just for defending a character is not right.. if it were a different match up i would pick a view.. now are u going to say im wanking that character if i dont agree with u??.

First of all don't double post. Secondly how would Asuma known his chakra had been drained? Explain that logic to me please.

Never said that did I?

You are Wank Lee, the Opener of the 7 Gates of Wank and the Guytard who Wanks endlessly.

Oh and I will reply for real to this post of yours below:

WHAT??.. the sword has never been seen to absorb chakra from water or seen to distinguish the difference.. still wont matter to Gai he needs to release the chakra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cant i say ur wanking kisame and his sword... i really ddont get this wanking thing.. its stupid.. if ur trying to get me mad.. its not working..lol

You sir are a moron. You just said Guy emits chakra to repel the water around him. So if Samehada absorbs that chakra that Guy is emitting, then what?

No water being repelled, losing chakra and in a giant dome of water losing oxygen while being slammed by Kisamehada.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 04:51 PM

Still doesn't make sense since he still used chakra after he was cut

Jinchiruuki

08-16-2011, 04:56 PM

Still doesn't make sense since he still used chakra after he was cut

Obviously it didn't drain him dry.

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 04:58 PM

Obviously it didn't drain him dry.
So he can't drain him dry but it can take 6 tails from B? Doesn't seem to add up right

http://www.naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102835
Continue here perhaps?

NagatoGod_of_Pain

08-16-2011, 05:55 PM

Super Sanin 3

08-16-2011, 06:01 PM

Killer B didn't know that his chakra was drained the first time they clashed either. Asuma and B were in the exact same situation.

There's no indication of Asuma even using Wind Jutsu to amp his knives anyways. If he did then it'd be what I said above
He'd still need chakra to charge the blades, wouldn't he? It should have sucked him dry if it can take 6 tails off B

Jinchiruuki

08-17-2011, 11:23 AM

He'd still need chakra to charge the blades, wouldn't he? It should have sucked him dry if it can take 6 tails off B

We can't assume Samehada just drains that same amount of chakra each time.

Good example is when he drained Naruto's cloak in the original series.

It can drain UP TO 6 tails from V2 Killer Bee with one swing.

Super Sanin 3

08-17-2011, 11:27 AM

We can't assume Samehada just drains that same amount of chakra each time.

Good example is when he drained Naruto's cloak in the original series.

It can drain UP TO 6 tails from V2 Killer Bee with one swing.
Then how can we decide how badly it would affect Guy?:|

Jinchiruuki

08-17-2011, 11:33 AM

Then how can we decide how badly it would affect Guy?:|

Because if Samehada can suck up to 6 tails of V2 Killer Be chakra? That means it can literally drain just about anyone dry with one swing if need be.

Super Sanin 3

08-17-2011, 11:35 AM

Because if Samehada can suck up to 6 tails of V2 Killer Be chakra? That means it can literally drain just about anyone dry with one swing if need be.
But it didn't work with Asuma, besides i thought it didn't drain the same amount each time? If he was fighting asuma he wouldnt leave him with chakra on purpose

Jinchiruuki

08-17-2011, 11:40 AM

But it didn't work with Asuma, besides i thought it didn't drain the same amount each time? If he was fighting asuma he wouldnt leave him with chakra on purpose

I'm not sure if Asuma's blades were charged with chakra or not but I think they were, and he expected them to cut through Samehada. Hence his surprise from not doing anything to him and being overpowered by the tip of it.

Also should note that the Asuma vs Kisame part is nearly completely plot filled considering Itachi told him to hold back.

You know what needs to be answered?

Can Kisame control the amount Samehada drains or not? Because if not then he'd drain someone dry instantly. If he can control the amount it drains then what I say hold weight.

Super Sanin 3

08-17-2011, 11:41 AM

Can Kisame control the amount Samehada drains or not? Because if not then he'd drain someone dry instantly. If he can control the amount it drains then what I say hold weight.
Doesn't he say somewhere he can drain an opponent to the last drop of chakra? which makes him best in akatski to take people alive

Jinchiruuki

08-17-2011, 11:44 AM

Doesn't he say somewhere he can drain an opponent to the last drop of chakra? which makes him best in akatski to take people alive

Well for Jinchuriki he said that. That's why he's the best one to capture them. Because he can literally drain up to 6 tails of V2 Killer Bee in one swing, meaning any other Jinchuriki below 7 Tails could literally be almost one shot :lol:

I want to find that out though. Because if he can't control the amount drained, then anyone without a ridiculous chakra pool (Raikage) or a Bijuu would be owned.

Super Sanin 3

08-17-2011, 11:49 AM

found it naruto chapter 472 page 9

However i think he's refering to his shark form here

Jinchiruuki

08-17-2011, 11:52 AM

found it naruto chapter 472 page 9

However i think he's refering to his shark form here

So when in Kisamehada fusion form he can control the amount he drains? That explains why he sets up for Water dome.

Super Sanin 3

08-17-2011, 11:55 AM

So when in Kisamehada fusion form he can control the amount he drains? That explains why he sets up for Water dome.
Mhm but i dont know about seperately, why would it matter anyway? im sure samehada would drain all of guy's chakra if he could

Jinchiruuki

08-17-2011, 11:58 AM

Mhm but i dont know about seperately, why would it matter anyway? im sure samehada would drain all of guy's chakra if he could

The only reason I'd say it WOULD matter if he could control the amount is for capturing. Which is irrelevant since BG debates are who kills who.

What does matter though is his draining 6 Tails of V2 KB with one swing..

I doubt Guy has much more than even with 7 Gates.

kazzim13

08-18-2011, 09:29 AM

Ok man i guess somethin might have changed cause I can't seem to write a large post for this topic. But I'm probably too late to be bringing this topic back up.

Speed Feats
Chapter 80 pg16 Gai is one of the Jonin that stop Neji's attack on Hinata.
Chapter 86 pg9 Gai repels Garra's sand from around Lee before Garra can finish sand coffin.
Chapter 117 pg8 Gai saves Naruto from sound ninja when he's behind Naruto
Chapter 143 pg10-11 Gai intercepts Kisame full speed charge for a kill strike on Kakashi, Asuma, and Kurani. Note that not even Itachi saw Gai coming infront of him while his Sharingan is active.
Chapter 148pg11 Gai jumps the gun and is able to hit Jiraiya before he is even able to get a guard up. Starting from the other end of the hall.
Chapter256 pg3-5 Team Gai reacts and dodges Kisame's wave that looks taller than a 2 story building
Chapter 256 pg4-5 Gai is prone in the air and Kisame blitzes to get first hit. Gai reacts and puts up a guard before Kisame swings. Lee interrupts the attack so we don't know if Gai would have been hit or not.
Chapter 258 pg11 Gai is able to open all the way to 6th gate before the 5 sharks are able to get to him.
Chapter 258 pg13 Gai jumps from bottom of lake to directly in front of Kisame before he reacts to the move
Chapter 258 pg14 Gai is able to kick Kisame after he attempts to swing Samehada at Gai in peacock stance. Kisame exclaims “so fas” and is hit by a kick that has flames surrounding it. All punches after kick have flames coming off from friction with air.
Chapter 263 pg10 Gai moves from cave entrance to seal 650m away in 6 panels. (Neji states distances of all 4 seals on pg8.)
Chapter 278 pg6 shows distance team Gai outruns clay clone bomb explosion. (crater to beside Kakashi.)
Chapter 505 pg16 Gai reacts and hits Kisame charging at him trying to escape. Gai's back is turned before he hits.
Chapter 506 pg6 Gai stops attack and blocks shark bomb from biting him in half.
Chapter 506 pg Gai recovers from being thrown back by shark and opens to 6th gate in 3 panels.
Chapter 506 pg10 Gai shows great jumping speed and height while in gates. (possibly largest single panel move shown.
Chapter 507 pg7 Gai reacts to a defeated Kisame's thumb twitching and knocks him out.
Chapter 508 pg2-3 Gai is only character to react to Kisame breaking out of restrains and attacking him back.
Chapter 522 pg16 Gai and Lee counter Haku while he is warping between crystal mirrors.

Guess since i can't put it in 1 post i'll do multiple. I made a list in response to Chidori's Kisame list of feats and found interesting stuff I didn't even know about. I think Gai's got some feats even in base that put him up in speed tier since some of them are against people in the legend tier and his 6th gate blitzes and moves are some of the best shown in the series. I also have reaction feats in this.

Super Sanin 3

08-18-2011, 10:13 AM

Guess since i can't put it in 1 post i'll do multiple. I made a list in response to Chidori's Kisame list of feats and found interesting stuff I didn't even know about. I think Gai's got some feats even in base that put him up in speed tier since some of them are against people in the legend tier and his 6th gate blitzes and moves are some of the best shown in the series. I also have reaction feats in this.
I can tell you put alot of work into this since i tried doing something like this once then quit because it felt like a waste of time lol
The problem is most of his base feats (not gates) are something either other jonin can do or he took them by surprise. I also dont think Guy trying to guard against the attack helps his feats much either `:P
(But he has very good feats in gates)

kazzim13

08-18-2011, 10:51 AM

I can tell you put alot of work into this since i tried doing something like this once then quit because it felt like a waste of time lol
The problem is most of his base feats (not gates) are something either other jonin can do or he took them by surprise. I also dont think Guy trying to guard against the attack helps his feats much either `:P
(But he has very good feats in gates)

i hear what your saying about the surprise hit on Kisame and Jiraiya but the feat is in the detail of the hit. Against Kisame Itachi is standing behind Kisame in full view of the entire field of battle. Itachi isn't even able to show a reaction to Gai until after Kisame has been knocked back. Note the ! over Itachi after Gai hits.

And the Jiraiya hit is in there for distance mostly. He threw a kunai into the wall so both Jiraiya and Naurto know someone is attacking but before they can turn all the way around Jiraiya is hit.

Also the being able to show a response to the attacker is a big part of a blitz. The most notable blitzes are the ones where there is no real response. Gai beatin able to get his hands up from him being spread eagle in the air when Kisame first blitzes is a good reaction feat.

Super Sanin 3

08-18-2011, 10:59 AM

i hear what your saying about the surprise hit on Kisame and Jiraiya but the feat is in the detail of the hit. Against Kisame Itachi is standing behind Kisame in full view of the entire field of battle. Itachi isn't even able to show a reaction to Gai until after Kisame has been knocked back. Note the ! over Itachi after Gai hits.
And the Jiraiya hit is in there for distance mostly. He threw a kunai into the wall so both Jiraiya and Naurto know someone is attacking but before they can turn all the way around Jiraiya is hit.
Yeah they are good feats but if he only shows good feats when he's catching people by surprise then lacks in real combat doesnt it say something :?:

kazzim13

08-18-2011, 11:26 AM

Yeah they are good feats but if he only shows good feats when he's catching people by surprise then lacks in real combat doesnt it say something :?:

Yes as you stated Gai's real feats are when he's in gates. But i'd bet it would be extremely hard to surprise 2 enemies that are clearly battle ready and one is charging for a kill shot while the other who has the sharingan activated is sitting back watching the entire battlefield. It's not like Gai had a rock to jump out behind they were fighting on top of a river. To even catch Itachi by surprise in that situation is a feat because it happened in front of him. Not behind or beside directly in front. There is no reason other than speed that he would not see Gai coming from a mile away.

I've got a lot more info but it'll have to wait to be posted till after I get off work, since I couldn't post it all at one time like Chidori did.

Super Sanin 3

08-18-2011, 11:36 AM

Yes as you stated Gai's real feats are when he's in gates. But i'd bet it would be extremely hard to surprise 2 enemies that are clearly battle ready and one is charging for a kill shot while the other who has the sharingan activated is sitting back watching the entire battlefield. It's not like Gai had a rock to jump out behind they were fighting on top of a river. To even catch Itachi by surprise in that situation is a feat because it happened in front of him. Not behind or beside directly in front. There is no reason other than speed that he would not see Gai coming from a mile away.

I've got a lot more info but it'll have to wait to be posted till after I get off work, since I couldn't post it all at one time like Chidori did.
Oh i'll wait til you get off work than before you post

Yes Guy's true weapons are the gates, i'm not saying he's totally helpless without them it's just that it's not amazing either. It's kind of contradiction as Guy did hit Kisame off guard but when they fought later he was able to react to many of Guy's attacks (except Gates) I mean think about it if that was the real Kisame and Rock Lee wasnt there, even without a fatal wound it would have sucked Guy dry (he was only guarding)

Jinchiruuki

08-18-2011, 11:37 AM

I really wish people would stop using the 30% Kisame Clone vs Guy as some sort of "awesome feats". :/ Thats literally the worse scenario to present for him considering:

1) 30% Clone
2) Didn't have the REAL samehada.
3) It was Kisame Clone vs 2 Jonin and 2 Chunin...Trapped Neji, Ten Ten and Rock Lee in Water Prisons and nearly killed Guy with his Shark Feeding attack.

Then came plot for Gates and he wtfpwned a 30% clone which had already diminished most of it's chakra for water shockwave and the sharks/water prisons.

kazzim13

08-18-2011, 05:40 PM

Ok time for this to continue, but first
I really wish people would stop using the 30% Kisame Clone vs Guy as some sort of "awesome feats". :/ Thats literally the worse scenario to present for him considering:

1) 30% Clone
2) Didn't have the REAL samehada.
3) It was Kisame Clone vs 2 Jonin and 2 Chunin...Trapped Neji, Ten Ten and Rock Lee in Water Prisons and nearly killed Guy with his Shark Feeding attack.

Then came plot for Gates and he wtfpwned a 30% clone which had already diminished most of it's chakra for water shockwave and the sharks/water prisons.

I remember someone saying something about Gai's side sounding like a broken record because of the same thing being said over and over. Well this is a nice repeat as well.
1.Got a few problems with this though, biggest one being that everyone seems to think that team Gai was in the best of conditions when this fight took place. You sound as if they got up from a nice relaxing full night sleep well rested and ready for a brawl. Guess what they had actually been running almost full sprint for over a day straight as stated by Tenten. How about you go run a marathon and 3/4 of the way through it fight full out for your life see how well you do.
2.Please give me a chapter and page reference that says Kisame could not use all of Samehada's abilities. Let me see in that fight we see samehada move on it's own accord and acknowledge that Gai was attacking Kisame with it so it spiked up to stop him. I'm trying to figure out why you say he couldn't suck chakra? One reason might be that Kisame never hit Gai with samehada.

I'm also going to post the rest of my feats list in a few posts cause i would like all info on the table.

kazzim13

08-18-2011, 05:43 PM

Sorry for the multi posts but like I said for some reason I've got a limit on my wall of text.
Well seems i can put the rest in this one post Strength, Endurance, and other random feats.
Strength Feats
Chapter 117 pg8-9 Gai punches sound ninja into arena wall and creates a crater then pushes him completely through wall and ninja is still flying backward
Chapter 143 pg10-11 Gai's kick not only completely stops Kisame's advance but he is knocked so hard he skids on top of water 4 times then Kisame gets his footing and lands beside Itachi.
Chapter 257 pg12 Gai is able to disarm Kisame alone. Showing off his better taijutsu skills.
Chapter 258 pg 8 Gai is able to block such a strong attack from Kisame without being touched by Samehada.
Chapter 505 pg17 Gai hits Kisame with leaf boulder buster and crashes him into the side of the waterfall cliff and is dazed.
Chapter 506 pg12-14 Gai counters giant wave of sharks with morning peacock and destroys all sharks on top of water.
Chapter 506 pg15 Gai releases 7th gate and creates a huge explosion underwater that keeps sharks from getting past him.
Chapter 507 pg2-3 Gai uses afternoon tiger against Kisame's giant shark bomb and it goes through while losing size but still connect with Kisame.
Chapter 507 pg4-5 shows resulting explosion from afternoon tiger that is shown reaching all the way to the clouds and is seen by Naruto and company over tree and rocky hill terrain line.
Chapter 507 pg6 Naruto and company are almost knocked over by aftershock of Gai's attack.

Endurance Feats
Chapter 255 pg8 Tenten remarks that they are moving to fast and have been running for an entire day non-stop. Team stops for Pakkun to explain why he's there and they start running again till Kisame clone shows up. That battle happens then they immediately start running again to get to the cave.
Chapter 258 pg 9-10 Gai is able to recover from Kisame's punch and open the gates before the follow up attack hits him.
Chapter 260 pg14 team Gai are shown running full speed again right after Kisame fight and Gai shows no sign of damage from gates.
Chapter 507 pg8 Gai is shown after coming out of gates to be uninjured.

Other Feats
Chapter 114 pg15 Gai notices and dispels Kabuto's genjutsu. A rank tech that put most people in arena asleep
Chapter 116 pg6-7 Gai is shown to make very keen observations on the battle field pointing out to Kakashi that the 3rd is with Orochimaru in the barrier.
Chapter 257 pg4 Kakashi explains alittle deeper into Gai's counter to Sharingan. He does look at more than just the feet.
Chapter 258 pg11 From opening the 6th gate all water surrounding Gai from bottom of lake to the top is evaporated including 5 sharks.
Chapter 506 pg6 it is said they need to get the information Kisame has and Gai acknowledges it. It is also said again they want Kisame alive for information even when he break restraints in chapter 508pg2.
Chapter 506 pg14-25 Gai immediately after using morning peacock trys to locate the scroll. Meaning Kisame was not the first thought on his mind. Instead he jumps into shark infested water.
Chapter 506 pg14 to keep sharks from getting past him Gai drops into water and opens 7th gate to block the path.
Chapter 507 pg 4-5 Yamoto recognizes afternoon tiger and tells everyone to brace themselves.(shows this was not the first time Gai has been in the 7th gate.)
Chapter 507 pg7 Gai explains that the aura from gates is caused by heat escaping the users body not chakra.