Tier Debate: Orchimaru vs Jiraiya

[J-Sun Tasogare]

BG Defaults
Manga Knowledge
BL
Most Powerful Form

I honestly think Sage Mode Jiraiya stomps this with ease.

Prep allowed.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Frog Song, GG. Is Oro above him?

[Vivi]

Frog Song, GG. Is Oro above him?

Well I know it takes some time for them to synchronize melodies in order to use it.

[Shikamaru Nara]

Odama Rasengan to the face?

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Frog Song, GG. Is Oro above him?
Oro is two places above him

[Frost ninja]

Well hold on now...
Takes time for frog song, and iirc orochimaru's most powerful form was the eight-headed boss-summon hydra with him in its mouth.

So... wheres that getting run over at?

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Well hold on now...
Takes time for frog song, and iirc orochimaru's most powerful form was the eight-headed boss-summon hydra with him in its mouth.

So... wheres that getting run over at?
Na I don't think it's his most powerful form, plus that requires somebody else besides Orochimaru, plus even then Gamakin and Gamahiro, Ma, and Pa Giant Rasengan, Swamp etc.

[Shy_Girl]

Can Oro counter swamp?

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Maybe with a Snake, but with Jiraiya in SM it's too fast.

[Shy_Girl]

Jiraiya in SM would stomp him.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Yep, still waiting to hear from Frosty though since she disagreed.

[Shy_Girl]

Don't you also think the swamp would take care of that form?

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Yeah.

[Shy_Girl]

What the hell can she debate with? e.e

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Dunno, just gotta wait and see.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Did we forget Orochimaru got his ass sliced in half by the KN4 and brushed that ;);););) off like nothing. :/
His durability is insane. Furthermore, Orochimaru has Oral Rebirth.
I personally see Orochimaru winning.

[Yellow Flash]

Did we forget Orochimaru got his ass sliced in half by the KN4 and brushed that ;);););) off like nothing. :/
His durability is insane. Furthermore, Orochimaru has Oral Rebirth.
I personally see Orochimaru winning.

Oral Rebirth consumes a huge amount of chakra. As long as his opponent has good durability/stamina, Orochimaru should lose. He usually resorts to Oral Rebirth when he sustains vital injuries, which seems to happen a lot because of his lack of speed and cockiness.

[Kazumi Saitama]

Oral Rebirth consumes a huge amount of chakra. As long as his opponent has good durability/stamina, Orochimaru should lose. He usually resorts to Oral Rebirth when he sustains vital injuries, which seems to happen a lot because of his lack of speed and cockiness.

He performed Oral Rebirth three times in his battle against the KN4. :/
Orochimaru casually dodged attacks from the KN4 and even managed to hit him.
Orochimaru is not particularly slow.
Yes, Sage Mode Jiraiya is very fast, but I doubt he will blitz Orochimaru.

[Shy_Girl]

Who stated that Sage Mode Jiraiya would blitz him anyways?
The problem is that Orochimaru doesn't have a counter for Swamp of the Underworld.
And if Orochimaru can counter the swamp. Jiraiya has time to use Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Singing to end the fight.

[Yellow Flash]

He performed Oral Rebirth three times in his battle against the KN4. :/
Orochimaru casually dodged attacks from the KN4 and even managed to hit him.
Orochimaru is not particularly slow.
Yes, Sage Mode Jiraiya is very fast, but I doubt he will blitz Orochimaru.

Which he showed signs of exhaustion afterwards. I don't remember who it was, but someone reference the manga and another source to prove this.

KN4 was mainly stationary, primarily using linear attacks by extending his arms. When he wasn't stationary, he blitzed Orochimaru, punching him in the face, and then sending him tumbling.

SM Jiraiya blitzed Human Path with relative easy, while Human Path is supposedly the second fastes Path, if you exclude Asura's rocket booster thingies.

By the way, this is Kisame he's fighting, not Jiraiya.

[Shikamaru Nara]

He performed Oral Rebirth three times in his battle against the KN4. :/
Orochimaru casually dodged attacks from the KN4 and even managed to hit him.
Orochimaru is not particularly slow.
Yes, Sage Mode Jiraiya is very fast, but I doubt he will blitz Orochimaru.

Still seeing no counter for SotU

[Kazumi Saitama]

Who stated that Sage Mode Jiraiya would blitz him anyways?
The problem is that Orochimaru doesn't have a counter for Swamp of the Underworld.
And if Orochimaru can counter the swamp. Jiraiya has time to use Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Singing to end the fight.

What stops Orochimaru from summoning Snakes?

Which he showed signs of exhaustion afterwards. I don't remember who it was, but someone reference the manga and another source to prove this.

KN4 was mainly stationary, primarily using linear attacks by extending his arms. When he wasn't stationary, he blitzed Orochimaru, punching him in the face, and then sending him tumbling.

SM Jiraiya blitzed Human Path with relative easy, while Human Path is supposedly the second fastes Path, if you exclude Asura's rocket booster thingies.

By the way, this is Kisame he's fighting, not Jiraiya.

Someone lied to you. Not only was Orochimaru able to perform Oral Rebirth thrice, but he also performed various other jutsu. After the battle, I saw no signs of exhaustion.

Correct, but his attacks were still very fast, faster than most characters can avoid. You speak as if many characters have speed on par with the KN4. The KN4 would have blitz many characters. Orochimaru has displayed speed above most shinobi.

The Deva Path displayed better speed feats than the Human Path. Show me his best speed feats.

Are you blind? Tier Debate: Orochimaru vs. Jiraiya

[Shy_Girl]

What stops Orochimaru from summoning Snakes?



Someone lied to you. Not only was Orochimaru able to perform Oral Rebirth thrice, but he also performed various other jutsu. After the battle, I saw no signs of exhaustion.

Correct, but his attacks were still very fast, faster than most characters can avoid. You speak as if many characters have speed on par with the KN4. The KN4 would have blitz many characters. Orochimaru has displayed speed above most shinobi.

The Deva Path displayed better speed feats than the Human Path. Show me his best speed feats.

Are you blind? Tier Debate: Orochimaru vs. Jiraiya

What stops Jiraiya from summoning Toads? Orochimaru did have a lot of snakes. Yet the size of Jiraiya's toad would handle them will little effort. One swing could kill over half of them.

[gama-sennin]

The thing is with Ma and Pa on his shoulders, theorotically, J-man has infinite supply of natural energy. We have seen that the durability levels increase exponentially in SM, provided that one can control the energy flow. On the other hand Oro has limited, however large, pool of Chakra. He is bound to run out of it at some point or other.

[Frost ninja]

Well...
Actually, its kinda iffy with the whole nerve gas thing oro has for body swapping. Plus, you gotta count in that he does have the ability to seal chakra, meaning if he lands it he can effectively stop SM entirely.

Also can't count out the speed of his sword thing. Fast and strong enough to push KN4 quite a distance, if Jirayia even so much as misses his chance to react by some reason (Say... Oro's little "see your own death" business or the paralysis) due to his weakness to genjutsu or for any reason else, oro can stab the frogs on his shoulders with reletive ease. One frog means no song, possibly even jirayia having to leave sage due to his inability to keep his own sage chakra in check.

Also count in his tankyness and him being able to do Leech All Creation, he is next to unkillable without a blitz or a one-shot. SotU just gets oraled out of and off he goes.

[heroeking]

Didn't Jiraiya gets blasted in the chest by kyuubi tail3 naruto. Oro possibly takes out Jiraiya before he blinks.

[blastrasengan]

Yeah but Orochimaru had his illness

[Uchiha Sora]

....Swamp of the Underworld?

[blastrasengan]

Yeah that could freeze him i his spot then he can use fire style or rasengan

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Did we forget Orochimaru got his ass sliced in half by the KN4 and brushed that ;);););) off like nothing. :/
His durability is insane. Furthermore, Orochimaru has Oral Rebirth.
I personally see Orochimaru winning.
Jiraiya catches him in Swamp and uses Frog Song then slices his head off, he can't use rebirth then. And yes SM Jiraiya speedblitzes Orochimaru, he was too much for the Pains to handle, Orochimaru isn't slow but he isn't as fast as Pain's

Didn't Jiraiya gets blasted in the chest by kyuubi tail3 naruto. Oro possibly takes out Jiraiya before he blinks.
Ummm what? Oro is NOT fast than SM Jiraiya
Well...
Actually, its kinda iffy with the whole nerve gas thing oro has for body swapping. Plus, you gotta count in that he does have the ability to seal chakra, meaning if he lands it he can effectively stop SM entirely.

Also can't count out the speed of his sword thing. Fast and strong enough to push KN4 quite a distance, if Jirayia even so much as misses his chance to react by some reason (Say... Oro's little "see your own death" business or the paralysis) due to his weakness to genjutsu or for any reason else, oro can stab the frogs on his shoulders with reletive ease. One frog means no song, possibly even jirayia having to leave sage due to his inability to keep his own sage chakra in check.

Also count in his tankyness and him being able to do Leech All Creation, he is next to unkillable without a blitz or a one-shot. SotU just gets oraled out of and off he goes.
Jiraiya undid that thing he did to Naruto though :P

He has frogs to break him out of Gen easily, plus Jiraiya isn't that dumb he found Pain's weakness and identity while getting the crap beat out of him, and it's going to take a lot to kill him.

Then he Rasengan's him when he comes out or they do the Lake of Fire burn him to a crisp, they also have the sealing jutsu they did against Animal Path. Honestly SM Jiraiya just is too much for Oro, he's strong yes but not enough for SM Jiraiya. He's being underestimated, Itachi was scared of normal Jiraiya, Oro was scared of Itachi, what does that say? A drugged Jiraiya basically soloed Oro and Kabuto with little help from Tsunade, Oro also has away of underestimating things, hence hem losing arms to Hiruzen. Jiraiya deserves the spot above Oro really.

[Frost ninja]

Jiraiya undid that thing he did to Naruto though :P

You need chakra to undo a chakra seal.

He has frogs to break him out of Gen easily, plus Jiraiya isn't that dumb he found Pain's weakness and identity while getting the crap beat out of him, and it's going to take a lot to kill him.

If he isnt in SM, its over. Also, nerve gas.

Then he Rasengan's him when he comes out or they do the Lake of Fire burn him to a crisp, they also have the sealing jutsu they did against Animal Path. Honestly SM Jiraiya just is too much for Oro, he's strong yes but not enough for SM Jiraiya. He's being underestimated, Itachi was scared of normal Jiraiya, Oro was scared of Itachi, what does that say? A drugged Jiraiya basically soloed Oro and Kabuto with little help from Tsunade, Oro also has away of underestimating things, hence hem losing arms to Hiruzen. Jiraiya deserves the spot above Oro really.

Drugged Jirayia vs oro with no arms is hardily a frame of comparison.
Needless to say, without a counter for Oro's body swap nerve gas, Jirayia gets body snatched or simply butchered on the spot.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Drugged Jirayia vs oro with no arms is hardily a frame of comparison.
Needless to say, without a counter for Oro's body swap nerve gas, Jirayia gets body snatched or simply butchered on the spot.
He doesn't use that unless he's going to switch bodies, and he only does that in bad health, and in debates contestants are at full health, so he wouldn't do that, plus Jiraiya would more than likely catch him in frog song before he ever decided to use that. Also when has Oro ever decided to use it outside of people he needs to switch bodies with? Keyword Need

Also proof that Oro can seal Nature Chakra.

[Frost ninja]

He doesn't use that unless he's going to switch bodies, and he only does that in bad health, and in debates contestants are at full health, so he wouldn't do that, plus Jiraiya would more than likely catch him in frog song before he ever decided to use that. Also when has Oro ever decided to use it outside of people he needs to switch bodies with? Keyword Need

Frog song took a lot longer than your letting on. Besides, when he normally does it and when he can do it are two different things. Are we taking off abilities of people just because we don't know the time?

"wouldn't" and "couldn't" are different things. Jirayia "wouldn't" waste sage mode on Oro, but he is perfectly capable of it if he felt the need. Oro "wouldn't" swap bodies off the bat, but if he can then he can.

Also proof that Oro can seal Nature Chakra.

Natural chakra works with your regular chakra. Sealing off regular chakra means your stuck with straight sage chakra. Unless you can proof he can use jutsu off of sage chakra alone, then sealing his normal chakra would leave him with a high likelyhood of becoming a statue.

[Shy_Girl]

Can't Ma and Pa control the amount of natural chakra flowing into him?

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Frog song took a lot longer than your letting on. Besides, when he normally does it and when he can do it are two different things. Are we taking off abilities of people just because we don't know the time?

Yet he still pulled it off being attack by three people with the Rinnegan, if Oro keeps getting trapped in SOTU then he can easily pull it off

"wouldn't" and "couldn't" are different things. Jirayia "wouldn't" waste sage mode on Oro, but he is perfectly capable of it if he felt the need. Oro "wouldn't" swap bodies off the bat, but if he can then he can.
And how exactly does the snake get close to him? He can sink the snake or just smother the gas with Gamahiro.

Natural chakra works with your regular chakra. Sealing off regular chakra means your stuck with straight sage chakra. Unless you can proof he can use jutsu off of sage chakra alone, then sealing his normal chakra would leave him with a high likelyhood of becoming a statue.
And Oro is going to be able to get that close and do the whole seal before getting rasengan'd or hit away by one of the frogs? I doubt it.

[Frost ninja]

And Oro is going to be able to get that close and do the whole seal before getting rasengan'd or hit away by one of the frogs? I doubt it.

In order:
Point being it still took a while to do.

Why would he keep getting caught in SotU? And also nerve gas is as it says on the tin, a gas. Smothering it with what?

LAC lets him basically move through the ground itself, so its not like he can't phaze into it and phaze out by Jirayia. Loose some close-range nerve gassing.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

In order:
Point being it still took a while to do.

Why would he keep getting caught in SotU? And also nerve gas is as it says on the tin, a gas. Smothering it with what?

LAC lets him basically move through the ground itself, so its not like he can't phaze into it and phaze out by Jirayia. Loose some close-range nerve gassing.
Yes, but he can handle Oro till it's ready.

Can he help it? Drugged Jiraiya sunk snakes like nothing, SM Jiraiya can make a huge one, Oro probably couldn't escape it with Oral Rebirth. Nvm that, he could get a toad to suck it up and de-summon it.

He still has to get a ton on Jiraiya for him to faint, Sasuke was caught in closed room, they're in a crater, it's going to spread out not concentrate.

Also while he's in SOTU he could get a frog to eat him and de-summon. Ring-out.

Also there is toad's stomach with White snake, he traps it in there and leaves it for death.

[Yellow Flash]

Chakra seals seal the chakra in your body. Nature energy comes from and outward source. Ultimately, you can't seal ones nature energy.

As others have said, no counter to Yomi Numa.

[Kuromaki]

Orochimaru is only that high because of ET, but going by the two ET he has shown, they aren't powerful enough to stop Jiraiya.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

Orochimaru is only that high because of ET, but going by the two ET he has shown, they aren't powerful enough to stop Jiraiya.
Then there should be an Oro with ET and without ET like there is with Kabuto.

[Kuromaki]

The tier list is meant to have characters with only one placement, though Madara has two for some reason.

[J-Sun Tasogare]

The tier list is meant to have characters with only one placement, though Madara has two for some reason.
Well there is always Toad Stomach

[chidoriroar]

Boss summons, Ma and Pa use frog song, Jiraya buys time with frog kumite and rasengans. GG